Born Again ?

buddyt · Jan 30, 2018

What did Jesus really say to Nicodemus ? Bible translations will tell you he said you must be Born Again. This is a misinterpreted verse. With Nicodemus reply one would think it to mean Born Again.

Jesus never used the word AGAIN. The manuscripts are clear on this he used the word ANOTHEN

Strong G509 ANOTHEN Includes from above, or from the first. Thayer anothen Used of things that come from heaven [from God], or from a higher [upper] place, or from the very first, or from the origin.

When you read with understanding you can clearly see we were all with the Father before being placed in these flesh bodies. Every last soul must pass through this Earth Age to be worthy of eternal life.

Genesis tells us of Satan's attempt to corrupt God's plan by seducing Eve. And then sending his followers to seduce the daughters of men. These followers lost there salvation by refusing to be Born into Flesh Bodys. Or to say Born From Above.

I know Ill get negative feedback from this post but so be it. Man learns at an early age things that are no so, and will follow that same teaching throughout his life without trying to learn truth.

This term Born Again is a perfect example of this

Helen · Jan 30, 2018

Well I'm not yet sure where this thread is going...but I have read the OP and will be watching to see how it unfolds.
Whether ......

buddyt said:
Strong G509 ANOTHEN Includes from above, or from the first. Thayer anothen Used of things that come from heaven [from God], or from a higher [upper] place, or from the very first, or from the origin.

....the quote above matters at all I am not sure....are you saying that whatever experience we have had with the Lord in new birth is 'all wrong' because of you quotes from Strong and Thayer??

Or that it was not what Jesus was meaning ?
Surely the transformation is proof in itself?

If the end result is a birth from darkness into light...does a crossing of the T and the dotting of an i make one lick of difference?
As the old saying goes... " A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument."

If I have totally misunderstood the OP then please explain what it is that you are really saying here.

Thanks....Helen.

buddyt · Jan 31, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Well I'm not yet sure where this thread is going...but I have read the OP and will be watching to see how it unfolds.
Whether ......

....the quote above matters at all I am not sure....are you saying that whatever experience we have had with the Lord in new birth is 'all wrong' because of you quotes from Strong and Thayer??
Or that it was not what Jesus was meaning ?
Surely the transformation is proof in itself?

If the end result is a birth from darkness into light...does a crossing of the T and the dotting of an i make one lick of difference?
As the old saying goes... " A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument."

If I have totally misunderstood the OP then please explain what it is that you are really saying here.

Thanks....Helen.

View attachment 1749

My post was intended to open eyes to the Fact that there was an Earth Age before this one and that we were with the Father during that time. Your spirit and soul were created long before you were put in the flesh.
Also everyone wants to say Born Again when it's not what Jesus said. When the word is translated and understood as it should be other things fall into place and some non-believers begin to see.
Another example of this is the fact the Earth is Thousands and Thousands of years old. Science and the Bible both tell us this. But you have those who have been told all there life it just 6,000 years old. Not understanding the what is written they continue to believe it. Thus when they speak to a non-believer the non-believer tells them they don't know what they are talking about. And they don't. To bring those with doubt into to word it has to be THE WORD.

Windmillcharge · Jan 31, 2018

buddyt said:
With Nicodemus reply one would think it to mean Born Again.

So why did Nicodemus ask about getting into his mothers womb?
If Jesus said 'you must be born from above' His reply makes no sence.

twinc · Jan 31, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Well I'm not yet sure where this thread is going...but I have read the OP and will be watching to see how it unfolds.
Whether ......

....the quote above matters at all I am not sure....are you saying that whatever experience we have had with the Lord in new birth is 'all wrong' because of you quotes from Strong and Thayer??
Or that it was not what Jesus was meaning ?
Surely the transformation is proof in itself?

If the end result is a birth from darkness into light...does a crossing of the T and the dotting of an i make one lick of difference?
As the old saying goes... " A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument."

If I have totally misunderstood the OP then please explain what it is that you are really saying here.

Thanks....Helen.

View attachment 1749

so lets just see - if experience is to be the yardstick - let it be the proof of the pudding or in religious jargon 'by their fruits' - many if not most are now claiming to have been born again and some go so far as to claim to be new sinless creations - research and statistics show droves of false converts and backsliders - twinc

twinc · Jan 31, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
So why did Nicodemus ask about getting into his mothers womb?
If Jesus said 'you must be born from above' His reply makes no sence.

we are told, for those with ears to hear and eyes to see that 'the invisible things of Him are clear to see in His creation[Rmns 1:20]and at Job 12:6 to speak to the earth and it shall teach thee that flowers bloom and die again and again and again until they finally die imho - twinc

Helen · Jan 31, 2018

buddyt said:
My post was intended to open eyes to the Fact that there was an Earth Age before this one and that we were with the Father during that time. Your spirit and soul were created long before you were put in the flesh.
Also everyone wants to say Born Again when it's not what Jesus said. When the word is translated and understood as it should be other things fall into place and some non-believers begin to see.
Another example of this is the fact the Earth is Thousands and Thousands of years old. Science and the Bible both tell us this. But you have those who have been told all there life it just 6,000 years old. Not understanding the what is written they continue to believe it. Thus when they speak to a non-believer the non-believer tells them they don't know what they are talking about. And they don't. To bring those with doubt into to word it has to be THE WORD.

Agree. I have never had a problem with believing that the earth is thousands of years old...older the "Eden" etc.
I've never understood why some can't agree. It doesn't in any way nullify the creation as we know it. ( I argue more about where the dinosaurs and stone-age man fit in.

...which I think was in the old world ..pre Adam )

ScottA · Jan 31, 2018

Sounds like another wild "interpretation" of "confounded" language and the result of conjecture based on as little as one word.

ScottA · Jan 31, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
So why did Nicodemus ask about getting into his mothers womb?
If Jesus said 'you must be born from above' His reply makes no sence.

Indeed, and that is just one of his points. He also would have us all believe that "In the beginning..." was not in the beginning.

Hmmm... where have we heard this line before: "“Has God indeed said...?

buddyt · Feb 1, 2018

Dinosaur or as it is written Behemoth I believe went away at the First Flood. The Flood written of in 2Peter 3: 5-7 We are told their The earth Overflowed with water and Perished. Were not talking about the Flood of Noah's time. Jeremiah 4:22-26 tells more of this Flood and explains there was no man left. Not even a Bird. Noah was a Man so it's not the same flood.
This is just my belief that God took them out at that time. And didn't recreate 6,000 years ago.

As for Nicodemus comments do you believe what is written or just believe what you want to believe.

twinc · Feb 1, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
So why did Nicodemus ask about getting into his mothers womb?
If Jesus said 'you must be born from above' His reply makes no sence.

Nicodemus here was clearly referring to reincarnation which was acceptable to the Jews and even to Jesus and the Apostles as resurrection was yet to come imho - twinc

twinc · Feb 1, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Agree. I have never had a problem with believing that the earth is thousands of years old...older the "Eden" etc.
I've never understood why some can't agree. It doesn't in any way nullify the creation as we know it. ( I argue more about where the dinosaurs and stone-age man fit in. ...which I think was in the old world ..pre Adam )

the world is not millions of years old - this is impossible since nothing could have existed millions of years ago only scalding steam and cinders imho - twinc

Marymog · Feb 1, 2018

buddyt said:
What did Jesus really say to Nicodemus ? Bible translations will tell you he said you must be Born Again. This is a misinterpreted verse. With Nicodemus reply one would think it to mean Born Again.

Jesus never used the word AGAIN. The manuscripts are clear on this he used the word ANOTHEN

Strong G509 ANOTHEN Includes from above, or from the first. Thayer anothen Used of things that come from heaven [from God], or from a higher [upper] place, or from the very first, or from the origin.

When you read with understanding you can clearly see we were all with the Father before being placed in these flesh bodies. Every last soul must pass through this Earth Age to be worthy of eternal life.

Genesis tells us of Satan's attempt to corrupt God's plan by seducing Eve. And then sending his followers to seduce the daughters of men. These followers lost there salvation by refusing to be Born into Flesh Bodys. Or to say Born From Above.

I know Ill get negative feedback from this post but so be it. Man learns at an early age things that are no so, and will follow that same teaching throughout his life without trying to learn truth. This term Born Again is a perfect example of this

Hi buddyt,

I agree with you. Jesus never used the word AGAIN.

I believe a good translation is, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

He then explains to Nicodemus what being born from above means by saying, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

Right after this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside and practiced what Jesus had just preached. They baptized...with water.

Mary

Marymog · Feb 1, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
So why did Nicodemus ask about getting into his mothers womb?
If Jesus said 'you must be born from above' His reply makes no sence.

Hi,

Nicodemus asked about entering a second time into his mothers womb because he misunderstood what Jesus was saying.

Jesus clarified that reentering into his mother womb was NOT what he meant.

Jesus preached that you must be baptized (born of water).

Right after Jesus said this he and his disciples went into the Judean countryside (John 3:22) and practiced what Jesus had just preached. They baptized...with water. He taught it and they practiced it....Just like all Christians should.

Mary

twinc · Feb 1, 2018

Marymog said:
Hi buddyt,

I agree with you. Jesus never used the word AGAIN.

I believe a good translation is, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

He then explains to Nicodemus what being born from above means by saying, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

Right after this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside and practiced what Jesus had just preached. They baptized...with water.

Mary

carefully notice the shift where there should be no shift - first you rightly say water and Spirit and then you shift the emphasis to only water - only water does not make one a Christian but water and Spirit is the requirement to make or identify one as a Christian - imho for a non Christian three stages or steps are necessary viz first repentence or the realisation that they are in a cul-de-sac in their way of life/belief/thinking etc and then hoping and praying that a way or the way will be provided by the grace and mercy of God which it will and they will be born again as little Christian children who will simply simply believe imho this is what Jesus stated and what Nicodemus knew he meant and was mulling over and pondering which we refuse to do as born again Christians imho - twinc

Windmillcharge · Feb 2, 2018

twinc said:
Nicodemus here was clearly referring to reincarnation which was acceptable to the Jews and even to Jesus and the Apostles as resurrection was yet to come imho - twinc

No twinc, Nicodemus was not clearly refering to reincarnation. For that one does Not get back into ones mothers womb.
Jesus was talking about a spiritual rebirth which Nicodemus could not understand.

Windmillcharge · Feb 2, 2018

Marymog said:
Hi,

Nicodemus asked about entering a second time into his mothers womb because he misunderstood what Jesus was saying.

Jesus clarified that reentering into his mother womb was NOT what he meant.

Jesus preached that you must be baptized (born of water).

Right after Jesus said this he and his disciples went into the Judean countryside (John 3:22) and practiced what Jesus had just preached. They baptized...with water. He taught it and they practiced it....Just like all Christians should.

Mary

Sorry Mary,
Jesus was talking about a spiritual rebirth, saying 'you must be born again.'
There is nothing about baptism in this passage, it is all about belief in Jesus.
Those who believe in him have life, those who do not believe in him are condemned.

twinc · Feb 2, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
No twinc, Nicodemus was not clearly refering to reincarnation. For that one does Not get back into ones mothers womb.
Jesus was talking about a spiritual rebirth which Nicodemus could not understand.

it is we/you that does not understand imho - twinc

twinc · Feb 2, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
Sorry Mary,
Jesus was talking about a spiritual rebirth, saying 'you must be born again.'
There is nothing about baptism in this passage, it is all about belief in Jesus.
Those who believe in him have life, those who do not believe in him are condemned.

nothing about baptism - you must be joking imho - twinc

twinc · Feb 2, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
No twinc, Nicodemus was not clearly refering to reincarnation. For that one does Not get back into ones mothers womb.
Jesus was talking about a spiritual rebirth which Nicodemus could not understand.

Nicodemus imho understood only too well - it is you and others that have a problem understanding imho - twinc

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