Various Questions

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Pildit

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(biblicalthought;38495)
If the Holy Spirit brings about within you the conviction of sin, IOW, if you begin to recognize your need for a Savior because you have offended a holy and righteous God, then you have been brought to that place of helplessness and need. That is where you respond to the gospel call to repent and believe. It is not initially brought about by your own will (John 1:12-13), but of God. Believing that God exists does not save anyone. Like James said, "even the demons believe!" Faith in Christ is believing that Jesus died in your place as a substitute in bearing the wrath of God that was poured out on Him in His body on Calvary's Cross. When you believe you are justified and declared not-guilty, and are robed in the righteousness of Christ. This union with Christ is your righteousness before God where he no longer views you as a hated enemy, rather, He views you with the pleasure He takes in His Son. That is why we cannot glory in anything that we have done, only in what God has done. He paid the price. He earned our righteousness. He purchased the elect with His blood. On the cross, just before He died, he said "it is finished." Christians believe this and offer themselves as a living sacrifice to God now that they are loved by God and no longer enemies. Scripture calls this being "reconciled" to God, meaning, His attitude toward us has changed. That is why we sing praise and offer worship and pray. He saved us.
So whatever good we do, we can never be happy that we did good because it was all God's doing. Not ours?
 

Pildit

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Okay I'm just going to sum up the answers I've got here and just basically say my perspective on things from the answers I've gotten. If you have more to say, then please do add it... however if you have said it before in this thread, I have NOT dismissed it, this is just a basic summary so don't take offence or anything, I just feel it's time to summarize all this and see if anyone has anything to add so I can move on to different questions and all okay? Alright.1.) Why should I believe in God / Be a Christian?In this question, mostly I've had replies of if I don't I'll go to hell. I know this but this doesn't give me much reason to believe, I don't see any advantage in being scare mongered into believing something. I'd just be lying to myself and to God (if indeed there is one). I should believe because I want to, not because I'm scared of the coinsequences of not believing.2.) Why would God allow such bad things happen to me?People have different opinions on this, but in my opinion people have free will and some of it IS a humans doing but then also perhaps some is to do with God... which people tell me he turns into good. Perhaps partly it's a matter of opinion, so pretty much I agree to half agree and half disgree on this one.3.) What about Evolution? And science?Vast majority here either say it's wrong or only the parts that are show parrells with the bible are true. The thing is here is that is purely selecting what fits to the story, or even forcing a square peg into a round hole, sure it may fit but not accurately or properly. That's what I don't like. However this isn't I'm right and you're wrong but this is one of the areas in some cases I asked for proof or evidence of God but no-one as able to provide me with any.4.) What if an athiest lived a just life, would he be denied Heaven just for not believing? And what of people from other religions?Well this was sort of a long winded thing of the next millenium and I have about 50 questions on that alone, so thank you for those who took the time to explain it to me. I appreciate it.5.) Have you ever experiences a miracle that cannot be other wise explained?I was somewhat disappointed that many people were unwilling or unable to tell me of their experiences here, but I understand they maybe personal... for those that did on the board or through PM, thank you although I may not see them as miracles, thank you for taking to the time to share them with me.6.) Why should homosexuals and other groups be so excluded?This is a sensitive area I've found and some people surprised me and needless to say some people really disappointed me. 7.) Have you ever questioned your faith? Why or why not?Mixed response on this, if you don't feel like reading back through the posts the reason I asked this is because I don't understand how a person can be sure of what they believe without questioning it, even if it's just once.If anyone has anything else to add or ask, feel free to do so. Otherwise I'm going to press on with my search, I still have more questions which I will probably post another topic for just to keep things more clear. Thank you for your help so far. Hope you'll help with future questions.
 

DrBubbaLove

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PilditDon’t know if I am adding anything new or not. If not, then no need to comment, just tell me to read more of the thread. (pildit)
1.) Why should I believe in God / Be a Christian?In this question, mostly I've had replies of if I don't I'll go to hell. I know this but this doesn't give me much reason to believe, I don't see any advantage in being scare mongered into believing something. I'd just be lying to myself and to God (if indeed there is one). I should believe because I want to, not because I'm scared of the coinsequences of not believing.
Agreed. The threat of hell has been abused and the teaching that Hell exists should never be used as a scare someone to Heaven tactic. For me the idea that God exists, which is easily proven to most open minds, leads to the thought that knowing Him would be to know things as they really are rather than living in a world that does not really exist (no God).
2.) Why would God allow such bad things happen to me?People have different opinions on this, but in my opinion people have free will and some of it IS a humans doing but then also perhaps some is to do with God... which people tell me he turns into good. Perhaps partly it's a matter of opinion, so pretty much I agree to half agree and half disgree on this one.
Don’t know am not God or anywhere near His level, you will have to ask Him. You are no doubt aware of the Christian belief that the world was not originally a place of suffering, that man’s sin is the cause of it being so and that it will not always remain this way. So while we know it, the condition of this world to be our fault, it still does not address why God would allow something to happen when He has the power to stop it.While it is not much of an answer we are told that the suffering of this life is nothing compared to the joy we can have in the next.
3.) What about Evolution? And science?Vast majority here either say it's wrong or only the parts that are show parrells with the bible are true. The thing is here is that is purely selecting what fits to the story, or even forcing a square peg into a round hole, sure it may fit but not accurately or properly. That's what I don't like. However this isn't I'm right and you're wrong but this is one of the areas in some cases I asked for proof or evidence of God but no-one as able to provide me with any.
The assumption that science has it right and Christians have it wrong is a false dichotomy. Evolution is a theory, with merits and detractors. Science (at least in today’s terms) deals only with what we can observe, religion primarily deals a lot with something we can not, the Spiritual Realm. The two do not have to be seen as opposed.
4.) What if an athiest lived a just life, would he be denied Heaven just for not believing? And what of people from other religions?Well this was sort of a long winded thing of the next millenium and I have about 50 questions on that alone, so thank you for those who took the time to explain it to me. I appreciate it.
As Christians we are told to tell others about a better way to live this life, not to judge their eternal destinations. Am not sure why I should assume God incapable of properly judging a “just” atheist anymore than I should assume He can not refuse to judge an unjust Christian. The Church would never do so and forbids it, but am sure people within it have done it. However, reason and historical facts suggests that a just life is more likely to be led in theist view of the world.
5.) Have you ever experiences a miracle that cannot be other wise explained?I was somewhat disappointed that many people were unwilling or unable to tell me of their experiences here, but I understand they maybe personal... for those that did on the board or through PM, thank you although I may not see them as miracles, thank you for taking to the time to share them with me.
No, at least none that would convince you one way or the other. Am not sure why we should think belief or faith must be grounded in direct observation. In my experience people can witness the same things, and no two will tell you the same story or even believe the same thing occurred.
6.) Why should homosexuals and other groups be so excluded?This is a sensitive area I've found and some people surprised me and needless to say some people really disappointed me.
Am not aware of them being excluded in the Church or in many other faiths. Perhaps you mean why are they not allowed to live an active lifestyle and have the Church tell them it is ok to do so. That would be because it is not ok, it is a sin and a duty therefore for any Church to tell a member it is a sin.
7.) Have you ever questioned your faith? Why or why not?Mixed response on this, if you don't feel like reading back through the posts the reason I asked this is because I don't understand how a person can be sure of what they believe without questioning it, even if it's just once.
yes, as you appear to have, we all have moments of doubt. Why did this happen to me? Why does it seem bad things happen to good people and the bad appear to be rewarded? Peter questioned his faith and came up short the night of Jesus trail. Am certainly not as strong as Peter. Doubting is not the same as denying or despair (the loss of all hope). Doubting is a human reaction to this life and I think even the strongest Saint has felt it at one time or another in their journey here.
 

Thunder1

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Pildit :1.) Why should I believe in God / Be a Christian?2.) Why would God allow such bad things happen to me?3.) What about Evolution? And science?4.) What if an athiest lived a just life, would he be denied Heaven just for not believing? And what of people from other religions?5.) Have you ever experiences a miracle that cannot be other wise explained?6.) Why should homosexuals and other groups be so excluded?7.) Have you ever questioned your faith? Why or why not?Thunder1:1. no you don't need to if you don't want to2. I have no idea3. God said "Bang" and it all happened, Im not interested in science,little bit of medical things though.4. Only way to heaven is through God, only way to God is through Jesus- includes everybody5.Yep.6.If they repent and take Jesus into their heart as a personal saviour and turn away from their sin, they are not excluded.7. some parts of it, regarding healing.When not all people don't get healed and they've been prayed over many times and they are sincere.
 

Thunder1

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Pildit:3.) What about Evolution? Thunder1:I think many 'apes' in our area are in process turning to humans,they are standing and walking more upright position and there is just so much hair everywhere on the ground.
 

Pildit

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1. Why shouldn't you believe in God? Maybe if you provide some perspective of what holds you back you can be helped to move forward.
I'm looking for evidence that God exists, now don't get me wrong on this I do appreciate that that evidence/proof may not be scientific excatly but it does need to be unmistakably God and not able to be explained by something. Because a person can say well "That was God" plenty of times... but first of all, it could potentially (depending on what it is of course) be otherwise explained and I don't want to be falsely assuming that something is God. That would be lying to myself and lying to God should there be one.
2. God doesn't allow bad things to happen to you or anyone else. Evil is in the world, that is undeniable. God hates ( yes God can hate but unlike us He can do it and not sin) evil. He doesn't want you or anyone else to suffer. Why then does He allow pain and suffering and evil? Simple, mercy. Gos is patiently waiting for us to seek and find Him and He is not hiding. What you see as God dragging His feet He sees as mercy. By waiting to expel evil He is allowing those that aren't saved to be able to choose Him. If God did away with all evil right now He would have to condemn every unsaved person over the age of accountablity to hell. God does not want any to perish but for all to come to salvation.
Heres where I have a another question: If God is trying to save us now, and can do and I take on the reasoning that he's giving us a chance to make the decision for ourselves; then why at the end if he doesn't want us all to suffer... why doesn't he save us all then?
3. Christians do believe in science. We use it and we know it is good. Evolution at its core is change and with the exception of God, everything changes. Stars live and die, animals adapt to new environments, man suvives another desease that should wipe us out and so on. Evolution however can not explain how everything got here. Nothing can not change into something. If you have a glass of water but you want tea you must actively add tea to the water to change it from one thing to another. God is the only one that could take nothing and mold it into something without adding something to nothing. If you don't understand how He can do this, join the club, Like the trinity, there are somethings man can not nor will not understand this side of heaven.
I've already had this discussion out, I won't repeat myself but thank you for the input anyway.
4. Sorry but the athiest is condemned. Jesus said I am THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE and NONE come to the Father except through Me. God made us and He made the rules. He made the path to Him narrow but not impossible.
Where does he say this? I'd like to look it up.
5. A miricle can be explained, God did it. It may not be the explanation you want but there it is.
Again, covered it. But thank for your input.
6. They aren't. They can become saved just like any other sinner. The bible says not to keep sinning. By that a homosexual who has truly made the transition from lost to saved will be convicted in his soul and will know he/she must be changed. It will happen if you put God in the drivers seat of your life. If you insist on driving, He will guide you but you still have to turn the wheel the way He says to get there.
I'm again getting this picture of, you have free will but you don't. Either you let God drive or God points a gun to your head, therefore if you don't do what he says he's going to shoot you.(Called 2 Conquer;40737)
So because God said so? If you don't believe in God that arguement just doesn't stand up.If I said that I don't believe in you, would you cease to exist? Why should it be different for God?
What I'm saying here is saying "God said so", means NOTHING when you don't KNOW that God exists. His words don't hold much weight when he isn't real (or known to be real) to you.It's not a matter of, I don't believe therefore he doesn't exist. He could exist, I admit that but "I know this because God said so" doesn't hold any weight, especially as making that statement alone makes it seem as if a person has never explored the outside possibilities. If they have and found them to be false, I want to know.
 

Pildit

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I hope you don't mind but I am going to work with you on these one at a time so nothing gets confused or lost by too much info on different questions.
Fine by me and let me apologise, I starting reading this before but just couldn't take it in very well, so I decided to leave it and come back to it later when I could.
Proof that God exists. Jesus Himself claimed to be God. The bible of course supports the very existance of Jesus. The Quran which is anti-Christian supports the existance of Jesus. The Roman Empire, the rulling kingdom at the time of Christ was an excellent record keeper and made many records of the time, some of which include Jesus ( by His hebrew name). Other secular historians of the time also recorded the work and very presence of Christ. Too many sources verify Christ, both of religious and secular nature. Now you can ask me for sources and I am quite capable of giving many to you however like a good teacher I would simple suggest you looK it up for yourself. I do this not to make is easier on me but because I truely believe you learn more by doing your own wet work. Sorry if thats inconvenient for you.
Please do point me in the right direction on this.
Ok back to God's existance. Jesus claimed to be God as I stated before. Keeping in mind that many of the moral standards we as humans still stand by today were taught by Jesus, you are left with 3 options. 1. Jesus is God and was telling the complete truth. 2. Jesus was crazy, and that would nullify all that He taught. 3. Jesus was a liar, Again that would nullify everything He ever taught for what then can you believe.
Okay hold up, now one can't assume that every moral standard we have today is because of Jesus - of course if your a Christian you believe it does. Humans and animals for that matter have the ability to learn, you might touch fire once but you learn it burns so probably won't do it again. Of course we also learn from each other too.Jesus however is a whole different thing, now Jesus could have existed, he could have been of sound mind and indeed taught very good morals (which may or may not have been his creation), that doesn't make him or prove him to be the son of God.
History doesn't lie. It is verifiable.
History can lie, it can be misleading but agreed we can sort through it and verify things as much as possible.
Jesus' birth was predicted over 700 years before it happened. Thats a hard fact to overcome. In order to be the Messiah He had to fulfill over 300 prophecies ( most of which overlap). they can be narrowed down to just over 100 distinct and seperate prophecies. The mathmatical odds of one person fulfilling just 60 is 1/10 to the 895 power. I do have a record of 60 and more but in the book I wrote 60 was what I needed. Jesus fulfilled them all. For your personal info the mathamatician that calculated those odds is Dr. Peter S. Ruckman. You can look him up too. For a list of those prophecies and fulfillments just message me with an email address and I will send them to you or you can wait till I post them on another part of this message board and look them up at that time.
Okay once again here's the thing, the bible is a book and it's very easy for something that is said earlier in a book to be fullfilled later in a book.
Lastly, the assumption that God is in something that needs explaining. It would be harder not to find God working than to find Him working. There will always be alternative ways to answer "small" miracles. By small I mean things like money showing up when you really need it or someone suddenly getting better that was very sick maybe even dieing.
Agreed, which is why miracles unless unmistakbly God... don't hold much for me.
However, creation can only be axplained by the presence of God. Science has been trying to come up with a way to explain the origens of life for a long time. Mathmatics of the most advanced sort, i.e. Quantum physics, trig, calculas, ect; has been aplied to solving this mystery and all of the non-God theories fall apart as the same point. When you break them down to their finest point math and science come up against what they choose to call the singularity. This singularity is the one thing they can't explain from any angle. I science we can break down matter all the way to Quarks which for now is the smallest form of matter humans have discovered but even that doesn't explain their existance. Where do quarks come from? What made them? The only Logical explaination is God. He who can make something out of nothing.
I've heard this arguement many times. I don't claim that science has the answer, at least not yet anyway but the lack of proof, isn't proof that God exists. I don't buy into the "God of Gaps".
Everything I have mentioned here is verifiable and researchable if you choose to seek out the information. I will not do the hard work for you but, like the bible I will point you in the right direction. It is my personal opinion that if you apply yourself to this task as mush as you have applied yourself to forming these questions and their philisophical ramifacations on your life and the way you view it, that you will find the answers you seek.God bless
Please do point me in that direction.
 

Pildit

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God wants to save us all but in order to be saved you have to choose that path. Why doesn't He just go ahead and save us inspite of our sins against Him? He provided a way for that salvation to happen. Remember God didn't choose our seperation from Him in the first place, we (mankind) did. In reality it is the offender that must make amends. Mankind is the offender.
In reality a person isn't made accountable for the mistakes of their ancestors.
God is merciful and decided to take the onus of finding a way for mankind to make amends which according to His law is impossible. God shed His blood though Jesus for the sins of the world. Now, seeing as man made the choice to seperate himself from God shouldn't mankind at the very least have to make the choice to get back together with God? To use an earthly example, If you offend your mom, should it be her responsiblity to make amends for your offense? No. of course not. your the offender so it is you that needs to make amends.
I'm fine with me personally, for example right now should I ever believe again saying I was wrong, apologising and all but like I said above and to use your analogy of me and my mum... well would she expect any children to take the responsbility for what I did? No.
The difference is with God you can't make it up to Him but He can make it up for you and all you need to say is thank you for forgiving me. pretty simple in truth and in practice. The problem is we have been lied to by the enemy (Lucifer, Satan, the Devil,ect) for so long that we no longer believe that we are guilty.
Of course simple.
Guilt remains until it is paid for. This fact is undenighable.
Agreed. One must admit and apologise if they are guilty and sort the situation out.
Look in your heart where God Himself wrte this information and if you have eyes that see and ears that hear and you will see.
I'm trying.
 

Pildit

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Where does he say this? I'd like to look it up.As I have stated previously, I will not do your wet work. The best way to learn something is to do the work yourself. I am sorry if you don't like this answer but please keep in mind in order to answer you I and the others that have taken the time to work with you did our work to give you the answers which sometimes feel casually tossed aside. Please don't take this as mean or harsh but as a plea for you to seek the truth. Remeber Jesus is the way the truth and the life. I will even give that one to you John 14:6.God bless
I ask this because if you make a specfic point, I want to know where to find it so I can look it up and read around it's context and all.If you just make a general point like I said before, just point me in the right direction... I need to know where to look, otherwise I cannot see your points.On that point I read John 14:6, I will probably read the whole of 14 a little later. Thank you for pointing that out.
 

Pildit

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I'm again getting this picture of, you have free will but you don't. Either you let God drive or God points a gun to your head, therefore if you don't do what he says he's going to shoot you.I suppose that's one way to look at it but here is another view. God is on one side of the Grand canyon, you one the other side. God has made a bridge to get across ( Jesus' gift). Now you need to get across ( yes you really do need to get across because at some point you will die and that too is unavoidable). Now the canyon is death, the end of earthly life. There is no going back. You have a choice. Use the bridge God provided or jump or hope you fly. As you can't fly logic dictates using the bridge. The problem is so many have bought into the enemies lie that there is no God, there is no Hell there is nothing to be forgiven for so they don't beleive the bridge is real and they jump. You can't fly. Do the math. The fact is, you don't want to believe that God is real because if He is, and He is, then you will see you must make a choice. A life and death, nothing will ever be the same, choice. If you do make the choice for God, He WILL change your life. Nothing and I do mean nothing will ever be qiute the same as it was before.God bless
It's not so much about making a choice, we make choices all the time but my point more so is that God wants to save everyone and yet it gets very cult like and a little scary when it's like he can save you, he wants to save you but unless you do everything exactly as he says he won't.
 

Pildit

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I am sorry but this is one of the worse statements I have ever read. I didn't know my thrid grade teacher as it was still summer but I got a letter in the mail stating what I would be required to have for her class. I didn't know her, had never heard of her and at that age I had no idea how to verify her existance or her orders. What did I do? I followed her written word and got what was needed before ever entering her class.
Where you very interested in actually knowing if she was real or not at that age? No, probably not. You just believed it, much like you would have just believed in God if you were taught to do so.
God provided His written word for us. A set of very detailed instructions as well as His personal reassurances that He loves us. Had you received a letter like mine you would have done the same yet because you have to wait till after you die to meet God face to face instead of at the end of summer. Read His letter to you and do what it says and you will be prepared.
Should you have wished to do so, you could have gone to meet that teacher beforehand.
As a final note, When a Christian says because God said so, its not because we haven't explored all the options its because we have and have excepted God's role as leader in our life. For us the choice is simple. For those on the other side of faith, it just looks like a cop out but that doesn't change that we, as Christians did our homework already and are just waiting for the "unsaved" world to catch up with us.
I'm pretty sure I said "seems" or "gives the impression", I'm not suggesting that you haven't done your homework, I'm sure there are some that have and some that haven't but "because God said so" isn't the best thing to say, if you did your homework, then share it with me = note: not do it for me, you can't do that anyway but clearly "because God said so" tells me absolutely nothing and if you were once in this situation, you'd know that.God bless
 

Jackie D

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It's not so much about making a choice, we make choices all the time but my point more so is that God wants to save everyone and yet it gets very cult like and a little scary when it's like he can save you, he wants to save you but unless you do everything exactly as he says he won't.
In bold...that statement is so very untrue. Now I don't disagree that there are many who say these things and that these people are very cult-like in this behavior. Quite specifically it is stated the steps to being saved:Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness (believing in the Lord Jesus and that God raised Him from the dead), and with the mouth confession (confession to Him that you believe these two very imprortant things) is made unto salvation. there is no more requirement than that....you don't have to perform any rituals, you don't have to get in front of another and confess all of your sins...you don't even have to pray that silly sinners prayer that all the "good" evanglists call people to the altar to pray before you are converted in your heart. And the rest will follow.....I really wish people would stop making something so simple so complicated for people by adding to the word of God....I say this to no one in particular just the Christian community in general!blessings Pildit
 

Richard_oti

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And the rest will follow...I really wish people would stop making something so simple so complicated for people by adding to the word of God....I say this to no one in particular just the Christian community in general!
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Jackie, may you indeed be richly blessed of Him.
 

Jackie D

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Jackie, may you indeed be richly blessed of Him.
Richard....thank you and may you be equally blessed
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Pildit

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In bold...that statement is so very untrue. Now I don't disagree that there are many who say these things and that these people are very cult-like in this behavior. Quite specifically it is stated the steps to being saved:Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness (believing in the Lord Jesus and that God raised Him from the dead), and with the mouth confession (confession to Him that you believe these two very imprortant things) is made unto salvation. there is no more requirement than that....you don't have to perform any rituals, you don't have to get in front of another and confess all of your sins...you don't even have to pray that silly sinners prayer that all the "good" evanglists call people to the altar to pray before you are converted in your heart. And the rest will follow.....I really wish people would stop making something so simple so complicated for people by adding to the word of God....I say this to no one in particular just the Christian community in general!blessings Pildit
Whilst I understand what you're saying here and yes all the rituals can make it more cult like but this isn't all what I was refering to in this post.Rituals aside - I'm still being told that a person shouldn't put a foot out of line. Not only that but I'm held accountable for the sins of my ancestors and numberous other things. It's becomes very scary when you start to look at it from all angles.
 

Jackie D

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(Pildit;42093)
Whilst I understand what you're saying here and yes all the rituals can make it more cult like but this isn't all what I was refering to in this post.Rituals aside - I'm still being told that a person shouldn't put a foot out of line. Not only that but I'm held accountable for the sins of my ancestors and numberous other things. It's becomes very scary when you start to look at it from all angles.
Jeremiah 31Jer 31:29 "In those days they shall say no more:'The fathers have eaten sour grapes,And the children's teeth are set on edge.' Jer 31:30 "But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge. this is speaking of the sins of our ancestors...and that each will be held accountable only for their personal sins and not by the sins of others before us or after us. Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- Jer 31:32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[fn1] says the LORD. Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jer 31:34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."when people are suggesting to you that you are accountable or carry the burden of sin for our ancestors they speak of the old covenant, the Laws established with Moses...The new covenant that came with Christ-His life, His death and His resurrection was to complete and satisfy the Old Covenant which bound us to familial curse of sins past. His blood covers and completes all sacrifice of sin past, present and future.Again people who are telling or in other ways attempting to convey this message to you are not teaching the True gospel. People who are trying to convince you of what your walk with the Lord should look like are doing so according to their own unique and personal relationship with God (if they truly have one), that too is wrong for we are each made uniquely in many ways for the Lord has many different dimension and loves variety. He did not create clones, He created individuals. Yes there are the basics that we all should live by. The problem though is that people give the impression that you have to be perfect or you don't make the cut. WRONG! Christ's sacrifice was proof to all that we will always fall short of the mark yet His blood atones for what we are incapable of accomplishing. I will give you an example. I have seen many threads that people start asking the proper way to pray. I believe there is no improper way to pray for we all communicate differently. Prayer is just that communication with God. I am a person who is unable to have good communication with Him if I pray silently and will spend periods of time just talking outloud with Him about things that are going on in my life and questions I have as to what it is He would have me be doing. I have laughed with Him, cried to Him, thrown tantrums at Him...I have even told Him jokes. Do I think this is wrong, absolutely NOT...He wants the real person, not a carbon copy of another human being...Anyway, I suppose I've kind of rambled and slipped a bit away from what you brought up Pildit. But the bottom line is that no one person can give you an outline of your relationship with Him nor can they tell you what line you should be walking unless of course it involves much intentional sin (and when I say sin I speak of definable sin by the letter of the ten commandments, not debatable things that are a question of personal conviction) without repentance. I do hope with all my heart that you find a place of being comfortable with Him and that you finally begin to hear Him through all the stuff that people have stuffed into your head about what He is and what you should do..blessings
 

Pildit

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(Called 2 Conquer;42195)
Ok a little help may get you started. Jesephus (probably mispelled) was secular when he made his recordings on Jesus so he would be a good start. As I stated the Qur`an does reference Jesus and as noted Islam is diametrically opposed to the biblical view. Keep in mind the existance of the apostles too. Most of their travels are fairly well documented.
Okay thank you, I shall note these down and research over the coming weeks.
Consider these men were broken and in fear after the death of Jesus. If Jesus was not exactly who He said He was, explain their sudden turn around in the boldness in which they performed their tasks in the name of Christ. Nobody risks their life for no reason. If Christ had died ahnd stayed that way, explain what could be served by their preaching.
People may well risk their lives for no reason, one example maybe in the case that they know they are doing so because it's all some illusion they want to keep up and keep going, or because they were fooled just like everyone else and therefore simply thought there was a reason to risk their lives.Not of course to discount Jesus being for real, but there are reasons why they would risk their lives all the same.
Why was Jesus' body never found when it would have been the easiest way to disprove the apostles claims?
I believe below you point out that they thought it may all fizzle out, which maybe why they simply didn't bother to look so hard for it.
The tomb were Jesus was laid was under Roman guard. These men were the special forces if their time. Extremely well disciplined, very well trained, they were under orders which means dereliction of duty ment they would face death for their failure, they were armed and armored? How could fishermen have overcome such long odds to "steal" Jesus body?
Perhaps this is unlikely, but not impossible. How can ordinary people make it to the roofs of place like buckingham palace or the houses of paraliment? On the surface it all being heavily guarded, it seems unlikely... perhaps near impossible and yet people have managed it.
Finally, a quote from the bible from the oppsing side, that being the sanhedrin: Acts 5:33-39, When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." As you can clearly see even the rulers of the day expected this to just go away. Nearly 2000 years later Christianity is still going strong. This in and of itself is proof of a secular nature in that the world in general is secular and every newpaper in the country still posts the effects of Christianity in its pages.
I'm not sure what this proves? Are you trying to say here that the religion survived because it's from God? I maybe just not understanding this.
 

Pildit

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(Called 2 Conquer;42199)
You make a valid point in that every moral standard we cling to may not have started with the earthly incarnation of Christ. That said, I made not claim that Christ made every moral standard during the years of His earthly life. What I did say is He taught them, lived them and showed us how to live them. The ten commandments came to be roughly 1500 years before Jesus walked the earth in the flesh. Most of the commandment are moral standards. Before you say it. no I do not believe that morality came to be only after the ten commandments either. Many of the instructions God gave Adam and Eve when He removed them from Eden were moral in nature too. The diference is the Jesus exemplified His teaching ALL His life among us.
Then I read that wrong, I apologise.
Jesus was tempted but never gave in. He had cause for wraith but didn't express it. He could have Conquered but instead He loved. No one that follows Christ the way He showed us to live can fail to live a moral and upright life.
Can't agree or disagree on this one right now. I can't only agree that is the case within Christianity.
The problem is we aren't Jesus so we fail and take the title of hypocrite from non believers. The key to the Christian walk however is best shown, in my opinion, on his walk to the cross. Jesus walked the path and fell, He got up and walked the path and fell, He got up and walked the path and fell. I know thats repetative but He fell 3 times. Jesus then showed us that alone, any of us can be over come by weakness. I bystander, though ordered to do so, picked up Jesus cross, which Jesus commanded before His death, and Jesus got up and walked the path. With help we can overcoime temptation and human weakness. Help is given because it is morally right to do so. So as you can see even in agony, on His way to a brutal death, Jesus was still living and teaching the moral standards He taught and lived during His life.
Some people are hypocrites but not because they make mistakes, more if they claim to specifically believe or hold some moral standing and purposely defy it.However I never saw that walk in that way before, so thank you for that. Perhaps it wasn't intentional but it does show some lessons.
 

Pildit

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History itself can not lie, History doesn't think it only happens and once done it is forever unchanging. History can be slanted but only in the here and now and for reasons other than absolute truth. A person that slants history does so for gain, and personal gain at that. History can have gaps. The burning of the library in Alexandria destroy countless unduplicated documents. This makes a gap in recorded history. While filling in those gaps is a tedious, time comesuming and often thankless task it is possible simply because history duplicates itself because more than one person can see it it or its effects. Many historical accounts have been made of the effects of a varity of subject where the author reviewing the effects was not even alive at the time the cause came to be. Does this lack invalidate the work of the author? no, because it is verifiable by other sources and through simple observation.
Let me rephase that. History can be misleading because of gaps, different things leading in different directions. Of course that doesn't mean we can't get to the truth but it does make it a long process.However on observation, I do agree. However 2nd hand accounts I'm really not keen on. It's just one of those long processes of verifying people, who they were, what they did, how close to the "action" where they?
 

Pildit

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(Called 2 Conquer;42201)
In the short term yes it is easy to do. Long term is not so easy. Keep in mind the Old Testament was already in print and fully complete long before Jesus was born. The Jews have a very careful and specific way of preserving the bible that ensures it is unchanging. If the new copy is not exact it is immediately destroyed so that it can not contaminate the faith. Yes the bible has many versions, a term I truely dispise because it give the impression that it is altered. When a new bible comes out, like the good news or english translation or NIV and so on what was "changed" is the style. In that as our spoken language changes our written languages must sometimes adapt to make it easier to read. For exaple the King James Bible is incredible beautiful in composition. It is also very hard to read because we no long talk that way. So to help the NKJV was written taking out the old fashioned english and making it more modern so it is easier to read. It doesn't change the message it just makes it easier to read without having to figure out who is talking to who because of all the thee's thy's and thou's.
I do have some disputes for the different versions of the bible, but none that stick in mind at the moment. For the moment that's not my focus.
Also it make you statement ring true the predictions and the fulfillment would have to take place within the lifetime of a single author.
Now hold on, it doesn't have to be one author. A person can read or hear a story and then continue with it.
Matthew for example never met Isaiah. They lived centuries removed. He sure never met Moses who live 1500 years before Matthew was a twinkle in his daddy's eye. 66 books in the protestant bible, 40 authors, nearly 1600 years with all of the books and author's writing in such a way as to never once disagree with another author is humanly impossible. If it was possible I request anyone, anywhere show me a comparative book. No such book exists apart from the bible which is one of many things that makes it so unique.
Unique... maybe, but still it is not impossible for these things to be written, these prophecies to be fulfilled. As above, they can read about it and simply continue the book, with the prophecies being fulfilled.