Various Questions

Pildit · Mar 30, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;42203)
I can not coment on things I don't understand. By that I mean this "God of Gaps" thing. What is it? Who came up with it? What "gaps"?
A "God of Gaps" is when something comes up that we can't yet explain, people jump in with "God did it".
One thing I will comment on is this. You say science doesn't have the answer, at least not yet. Well God gave us one answer that has yet to be disproven and that is creation. What is seems like is you want something to prove God doesn't exist so you can feel comfortable with science or some other more tangible medium. Creation has been given and never disproven. WHat more do you want?
True, creation hasn't been disproven but it hasn't been proven either. I'd like it to be proved.(Called 2 Conquer;42205)
Every post I make points in the right direction. By right I mean leads to God which by defination can't be wrong. The path taken to reach the point of salvation my be long and twisted and covered with thorns and vicious beasts just waiting to prey on you because you chose to question every small detail instead of just following instructions.
Yes, your right. I question a lot but why not question? Why not strive for a greater understanding? If searching for God and/or the truth, one needs to ask questions.
No, following intsruction doesn't mean you shouldn't think for yourself it just means your still in a state of rebellion.
Asking questions isn't rebellion unless I'm forbidden to do so, and also forbidden to think for myself. Which I'm of the understanding I'm not, therefore neither am I rebelling. I've nothing to rebel against.
For example: mom tells you to take out the trash. If you take out the trash nothing happens except maybe a thank you or something. If you don't, well now dad gets involved, feeling and backsides get hurt all because you didn't follow instructions. I know that illustration is simple but so is excepting Jesus as your personal savior. Only people make it hard.
Fair enough but lets me two points here... with the first we'll take the example of taking out the trash. I'm not refusing to take out the trash, I simple don't understand why I should take out the trash. So I ask. If the answer makes sense why I should take out the trash and isn't scare mongering that I will get a smack if I don't, then I'll take out the trash.Secondly, if someone told me to jump off a bridge and I just agreed and jumped without understanding (or with even I guess) Well I'd be injured or dead. This maybe an extreme example but all the same, do you see my point? You don't do things just because people tell you to, you make your own judgements, find information, ask questions, etc.(Called 2 Conquer;42202)
I will make a request of you. Show me an example of God not working. Make sure you list everything involved. and we can explore your findings if you are agreeable.
I'm not completely sure what you're asking for here, but this will be what isn't unmistakably God.I had this conversation with someone a few days ago, I'll use the same example I used with them.In a conversation with someone about how God spoke to them and it was unmistakably God this person said to (rough quote) "Sometimes I pray and then a bird sings outside".To me, that's not God. That's a bird singing.

its_victoria08 · Mar 30, 2008

I think one of the biggest issues with non-believers is that they want to know God and love Him on their terms. They pray for the wrong things.I am a newly regenerated Christian. By that I mean that for about 4 years I was one of the most sure atheists I knew.I wanted to know God, but I thought that He wasn't answering me. I thought He wasn't listening.You can't pray for God to give you good things or for something to happen that you want to happen. You should pray for God to do His Will in your life, guide you on His path, and help you to recognize that His path is right for you. You should pray for knowledge of Him and understanding.That's just my two pennies, though.

Pildit · Mar 30, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;42208)
Man, and I thought I was long winded. Just kidding I am actually enjoying this immensely.God wants to save us all but in order to be saved you have to choose that path. Why doesn't He just go ahead and save us inspite of our sins against Him? He provided a way for that salvation to happen. Remember God didn't choose our seperation from Him in the first place, we (mankind) did. In reality it is the offender that must make amends. Mankind is the offender. In reality a person isn't made accountable for the mistakes of their ancestors.Wanna bet? Oops Christians aren't supposed to gamble. Oh well its not gambling if you can't lose. Ever have to live down the repution of someone in your family? What about alcohol, drug addiction, sexual addiction, the cycle of abuse either physical, mental or emotional? All of these are passed down from one to another. Yes they can be overcome but they are still there and just because one generation beats it doesn't always break the cycle for good. These are just the most commonly talked about but there are more than I could list without a team of people typing day and night of things that are passed down from generation to generation. You made a very very broad statment which is extremely easy to refute. To be honest I didn't really have to think about that one. I am going to give you some proof of what I say even though it is embarrassing to me and could very well change what people think of me. The truth is I don't care. I know everything i have ever thought and done and said will one day be made open for all to see I an just doing it now before God does it later.My grandfather was bisexual. I don't need to explain what that is as you already know. This is however, and abberant lifestyle. It has it own consequenses. My father was an adulterer. He cheated on my mom and left us the day I was born. This to is a sexual addiction. My father repeated this act at least once more that I know of after my mom and at least once before my mom. Both resulting in life. I was an adulterer. I cheated on my wife of 10 years. Not just once either. She forgave me each time and each time I resolved never to let it happen again. Before the last one happened, I reseached what the bible says on the subject and found out about generational curses (the passing on of sin from one generation to the next) as you can imagine that real shook me. especially when I read it in the Old Testament. That make it about 2700 - 3000 years older than me. I told my wife what I had found and as you can imagine it didn't go over well. I pleaded for help from her and from God but to no avail. Did God ignore me? Nope, He just won't take something like that away. He wants to to fight, He wants to to connect, He wants to to seek Him every moment to stay on the narrow path. I just passed the 1 year mark of moral purity. It was and still is a struggle. Sometime I have to call my bothers in Christ in to keep my from straying. I have to constantly be in touch with God because I CAN'T DO IT ALONE. No one can. Oh you can fight it for a long time. My own will gives me 2 years. But I always fall back. My wife willl not forgive me if I fall again. She said it bluntly and I have no reason not to believer her. Dr. Patrick Carnes is the foremost athority in this field. Even He, a Doc, trained in secular science in a secular university will comefirm that sin does pass from generation to generation. I can almost hear your mind spinning. Sorry that happened to you but that doesn't prove anything. Keep in mind that NBC did a study on sexual addiction. )ver 300,000 people suffer from sexual addiction and the number of women with tis is catching up with then men. Personally I think NBC was way off, that number is way to conservative but at least its a verifiable number.
First of all, yes sorry that happened to you. Honestly sexual addiction is hard for me to comprehend but nonetheless you bring up a good point. This kind of thing can be past on through generations perhaps, but my point was more so towards the actual sin. For example (I'm going to use you as an example, hope that doesn't make you uncomfortable): If you hadn't strayed from your wife... thus you were innocent (at least on this subject of inheriting sin anyway), would you still be judged on your ancestors actions?Because I feel it a little unfair to taint someone with "sinner" when they haven't done anything. I feel I'm being held accountable for people running amuck and having to be reined in by Jesus.And thank you for sharing that with me, even if your sharing it now before God does it later. That doesn't mean it was easy.

Pildit · Mar 30, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;42211)
yes, but who all needs to be apoligised too?
The person you've upset, hurt, or otherwise commited the offense against.(Called 2 Conquer;42210)
Ok you fine with you. Most people are. They don't know why they aren't fulfilled but assume if they do one more good thing they will feel better. You won't, no one will. While doing nice things such as charity, volunteer work, good samaritian deeds and so one feel good it all fads with time. od is the only one that fulfills all the time even when your being a jerk and lets face it we're all jerks sometimes.As to your example, well of course a parent or even a person doesn't think others should feel responsible for what they did themselves. Adam and Eve would have told Cain and able the same thing. The fact is the sins you commit are written inside you and are imprinted on the next generation. For example read the previous post. No one wants to pass all sin but they do whether they like it or not which is why God said ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Now you can check every language on earth and you know what you will find? In every langauge ALL means ALL.
OKay, I have read this, but I think we covered it above.(Called 2 Conquer;42213)
I take exception to one word "everything". God asks that you do one thing and only one thing. Believe with your heart and confess with your tounge the Jesus died for your sins on the cross, was buried and on the third day rose from the grave and is now seated at the Father's right hand. Thats one thing not everything. The problem I think is your thinking to big. Yes I serve a big God that can do anything. That doesn't mean everything He does is big, sometimes its little. You don't believe in ytour heart so you can't confess with your tounge. What you have is a crisis of the heart and only God can heal it. For proof: go to the doctors, ask them to check your heart, when you see that its fine you will know that olny God can fix what is truely wrong with it.
I look (or try to look) at big and little things. You're right though, although I pray for God to speak to me. I won't confess all as that simple isn't sincere of me. Its a difficult situation to be in.

Pildit · Mar 30, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;42217)
No I couldn't the schools in NY, where I lived, will not under any circumstances give out the address or phone number of a teacher. Ny schools also do not open for faculty till the day before the school year starts, at least in wayne county. As you can see no i really couldn't have met her before hand no matter how much I wanted too.
(Called 2 Conquer;42216)
Actually I was interested because shcool was very hard for me. I didn't enjoy it because, and this will sound conseeded I was a lot smarter than most of my class. My family always discussed everything, no topic was off limits. We were encouraged to study anything of interest and because of this I was well advanced of the 3rd grade and as you know teachers don't like being called idiots especailly when you have proof that they are wrong. If I had met my teacher first and gotten to talk with her outside of her authority in the classroom there is a chance we would have gotten along better because she would have been prepared for me and I would have known she was a closed book. So again, yes I really did want to meet her first.As to being taught about God my mom is wierd she believed in God but not in the way the bible explains. I will not ever go into that because I don't want to confuse others and because my mom is a very profound person that takes the time to work up her points and sinse she has come to realise she was wrong that is a mote point. The face is I had to find God on my own, everyone does regardless of upbringing because no one can make the choice for you.
These really I will cover with the same answer, hence I grouped them together.My point was more that, it is possible that you could have met your teacher... she's there, she's visable, etc. Plus you've met teachers before, you've seen photographs. You know teachers exist because of these things.I can't do that with God.

RobinD69 · Mar 30, 2008

1.) Why should I believe in God / Be a Christian?Because He believes in you.2.) Why would God allow such bad things happen to me?Freewill.3.) What about Evolution? And science?Science is proving Creation on a regular basis while disproving Evolution.4.) What if an athiest lived a just life, would he be denied Heaven just for not believing? For one thing it is impossible for any human to live a just enough life to suite God. This is why we need Christ.And what of people from other religions?I am sorry but the Bible is clear on this, and it is not favorable for other faiths.5.) Have you ever experiences a miracle that cannot be other wise explained?Yes.6.) Why should homosexuals and other groups be so excluded?Because they are in rebellion and refuse to repent. We do not desire that they should be excluded, but if we approach then in love and desire they repent they become insulted and start attacking us and our faith.7.) Have you ever questioned your faith? Why or why not?Always. Because the Bible tells us to search and find that which is good and hold onto it. How else would we grow if we didnt have questions?

Pildit · Mar 30, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;42220)
Might as well get my perception of something you said out of the way first. This "if you were once in this situation, you'd know that." came off as a bit sarcastic to me. If it was ment that way I don't appriciate it and if it wasn't I apoligise now for mistaking your intent.
It wasn't meant like that, just simply that if you've been in this situation, then you probably understand or remember what it's like. Admittedly, that wasn't phased to well though, my apologises.
Because God said so is usually used in one of two situations. One laziness. Two frusteration. Laziness is enexcusable frusteration isn't. If the person is lazy, which you can tell if they put any effort into trying to explain it first then move on and ask someone else. If they are frusterated, like I get when answering the same question over and over with no visable results, back off and wait for them to compose themselves then try again.
Agreed
The first step in understanding why God saod so is the truth even if you don't like it is to actually read the bible or if you don't like reading or don't have a lot of time you cans et aside then try and audio bible so you can just listen. I personally recommend starting with the answers i.e. the New Testament. After you finish with that read the questions i.e. the Old testament. This has worked for me and I have read the entire bible now 27 times. in contrast I have listented to the bible 51 times. Face it listening is faster.
I'm reading right now. I prefer reading, I take it in better. Although the past week has been hecktic so it's taken a little of a backseat. I'm read John and Mark I believe currently, but also reading other bits and bobs recommended to me, plus everyone someone quotes something here, I look that up usually too.
You will not gat everything all at once, in fact you will not get everything in your lifetime.
I appreciate that completely, just as one can do with other books or a movie. Different things come through each time and also as you grow older too.
The idea behind reading the ible is many. One its a good book.
Agreed
Two it is historically and archaeologically verifiable.
I'm working on this one... so no comment for now.
Three you are implanting biblical wisdom for the Holy Spirit to illumin. By that I mean, and you can ask other Christians about this, The Holy Spirit, when you are in a situation that needs resonlition or you see something or hear something and suddenly a bible verse comes to mind unbidden ( you didn't actively seek it out) thats the Holy Spirit at work.
I perhaps wouldn't say that is so, I pull many helpful quotes in times of trouble. Yes some from the bible but isn't it natural to search through you knowledge for a solution?
This is the internet age, info is available at the click of a mouse. Simple go to google or some other search engine, type what you want to know and click search and thousands of options will present themselves. Believe me its easier than the way I learned. The library and by mail to various authors and univercities and several sources from Jerusalem by mail. Be aware of false teachers, they abound on the internet but with careful research you will find all you need.
The internet is very useful, it will of course by apart of my search but as will also be books, etc too.

Pildit · Mar 30, 2008

(Jackie D;42209)
Jeremiah 31Jer 31:29 "In those days they shall say no more:'The fathers have eaten sour grapes,And the children's teeth are set on edge.' Jer 31:30 "But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge. this is speaking of the sins of our ancestors...and that each will be held accountable only for their personal sins and not by the sins of others before us or after us.
Okay
Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- Jer 31:32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[fn1] says the LORD. Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jer 31:34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."when people are suggesting to you that you are accountable or carry the burden of sin for our ancestors they speak of the old covenant, the Laws established with Moses...The new covenant that came with Christ-His life, His death and His resurrection was to complete and satisfy the Old Covenant which bound us to familial curse of sins past. His blood covers and completes all sacrifice of sin past, present and future.Again people who are telling or in other ways attempting to convey this message to you are not teaching the True gospel. People who are trying to convince you of what your walk with the Lord should look like are doing so according to their own unique and personal relationship with God (if they truly have one), that too is wrong for we are each made uniquely in many ways for the Lord has many different dimension and loves variety. He did not create clones, He created individuals. Yes there are the basics that we all should live by. The problem though is that people give the impression that you have to be perfect or you don't make the cut. WRONG! Christ's sacrifice was proof to all that we will always fall short of the mark yet His blood atones for what we are incapable of accomplishing. I will give you an example. I have seen many threads that people start asking the proper way to pray. I believe there is no improper way to pray for we all communicate differently. Prayer is just that communication with God. I am a person who is unable to have good communication with Him if I pray silently and will spend periods of time just talking outloud with Him about things that are going on in my life and questions I have as to what it is He would have me be doing. I have laughed with Him, cried to Him, thrown tantrums at Him...I have even told Him jokes. Do I think this is wrong, absolutely NOT...He wants the real person, not a carbon copy of another human being...Anyway, I suppose I've kind of rambled and slipped a bit away from what you brought up Pildit. But the bottom line is that no one person can give you an outline of your relationship with Him nor can they tell you what line you should be walking unless of course it involves much intentional sin (and when I say sin I speak of definable sin by the letter of the ten commandments, not debatable things that are a question of personal conviction) without repentance. I do hope with all my heart that you find a place of being comfortable with Him and that you finally begin to hear Him through all the stuff that people have stuffed into your head about what He is and what you should do..blessings
Okay, I don't have a problem with prayer... however why am I am still told, that I should be a debit to Jesus over my ancestors being cleared of THEIR sin?

Pildit · Mar 30, 2008

(its_victoria08;43445)
I think one of the biggest issues with non-believers is that they want to know God and love Him on their terms. They pray for the wrong things.I am a newly regenerated Christian. By that I mean that for about 4 years I was one of the most sure atheists I knew.I wanted to know God, but I thought that He wasn't answering me. I thought He wasn't listening.You can't pray for God to give you good things or for something to happen that you want to happen. You should pray for God to do His Will in your life, guide you on His path, and help you to recognize that His path is right for you. You should pray for knowledge of Him and understanding.That's just my two pennies, though.
In short, yes on my terms but they are open minded terms all the same. It just has to be unmistakably God. Which is quite open, I mean I don't want to lie to myself and call something God when it isn't or has some other logical explaination.

disorderedattraction · Apr 1, 2008

I hope you got some cleared answers in most of your questions, I do get confused with religion and science as well and at the same time the homosexual part.

Pildit · Apr 25, 2008

Okay before I read through replies again and reply, quick update:I prayed like mad, nothing happened but I decided to wait and still nothing so far. I'm also currently reading Mere Christianity by C S Lewis as recommended.Thank you all for replying, I'll get around to responding over the next few days.

Firm Faith · Apr 26, 2008

3.) What about Evolution? And science?I think this may be my question, if nobody else has answered it fully, if somebody has, i apologise.I am very interested in science myself but Science and evolution and the beginning of the world + Christianity are not incompatible.Science is based on Empirical evidence of course, many scientists are Christians if not, atleast Theists, such as Proffessor Hawking. Evolution can be explained that it is the way God helped to bring about Humans, millions of years are but a blink in His eyes because he is outside time.The Bible explains the coming about of the world as best they understood it, by means that they could comprehend, however now being more, evolved if you like, in our intelligence, we know that it wasnt created literally but the Big Bang theory still works within the Bible's story. Keeping the the beginning of the Universe in science i have quotes from scientists and different religous speakers of our day

roffesor Stephen Hawking: The initial state of the universe must have been very carefully chosen indeed if the hot Big Bang model was correct right back to the begginning of time. It would be very difficult to explain why the universe should have begun in just this way, except as an act of God who intended to create beings like us.If you agree with the big bang, then here is you're answer to why there is strong belief as to why God is the direct intervention with the begginning of the universe.On the topic of Evolution without God

ave Hunt, (In Defence of the faith) Even if the whole universe consisted of organic soup, the chance of producing the basic enzymes of life by random processes without intelligent direction would be aproximatley on in 10 with 40,000 zeroes after it.....Darwinian evolution is most unlikely to get even one polypeptide right, let alone the thousands on which living cells depend for survival.Without God the appearance of life and evolution is near impossible. These are researched facts and figures.And on the subject of science vs religion and how they can be compatible:Richard Swinburn, (Is there a God?): So there is our universe. It is characterised by vast, all persuasive temporal order, the conformity of nature to formula, recorded in the scientific laws formulated by humans. It started off in such a way...as to lead to the evolution of animals and humans. These phenomena are clearly too big for science to explain....Not that i am not postulating a 'God of Gaps', a God merely to explain the things which science has not yet explained. I am postulating a God to explain what science explains; i do not deny that that science explains, but i postulate God to explain why science explains.Here is why i believe Science and Religion are completely compatable.Yours, Firm Faith.

Pildit · Apr 26, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;43523)
C2C-If it was an illusion they wanted to keep going they wouldn't have died for it. As I said no one will risk their lives for nothing. Yes somethings may sound like nothing to people like those that die because they are adrenalen junkies and jump off cliffs or other recreational activities that are highly risky. The fact is they have a reason for doing what they do whether we agree on its validity or not. As to being fooled, Jesus promised them a seat of authority in His kingdom. If they were fooled then Jesus lied. Jesus doesn't lie because God doesn't lie and Jesus is God.
But you see the existence of God and indeed if Jesus was the son of God or God himself, is exactly what's in dispute here. Understand that if a person is convinced in some way that something is true and worth dying for, they will risk it - even if it's not actually true or worth dying for. People do it even today, consider other religions of the world and how many people have died or risked their lives for them.
C2C- Ok, thats short sighted in my opinion. The rulers of the day were threatened by Jesus and even more so by the preaching of the disciples. The rulers imprisoned, harrassed, whipped and threatened the disciples. They sent Saul ( later to become Paul) to arrest and lead stoning of Jesus' followers. These are not the actions of men that wouldn't look hard. These are the actions of scared men that will do anything to ensure their place of power.
Consider though that if they are more threatened by the teachings of the disciples then they may well focus their efforts on that, rather than finding a body. The word was being spread and that may have been what was the priority to stop.Even so there were still people in high places that expected this all to just go away since Jesus was now dead anyway, although there may have been a big crack down the efforts may have been focused else where.
C2C- The differences between your examples and mine are many. The tomb is small, those places are huge. There was only one way in, there are many in yours. The guards would have faced death in mine and only a dishonorable dicharge and maybe incarceration in yours.
Fair enough but this is a difference of time and changes in society.
The men in mine were simple fishermen, tax collectors and so on, in yours you have hardcore daredevils and professionals of various professions.
These people are not always daredevils or professionals at all, of course they probably will have planned their route and such like but then so could have the fishermen and tax collectors.
In mine the disciples couldn't have made the needed governmental connections to get around the red tape in yours many many people can be bought and so on. I respect your example but its, to coin a phrase, like comparing apples to oranges.
It's not impossible for them to get inside information, friends or even plan for such a task. It could even just take observation.
I'm not sure what this proves? Are you trying to say here that the religion survived because it's from God? I maybe just not understanding this.Yes, I am and so did those very experienced leaders. No one stood up and called Gamaliel a fool. It is something to note the Saul (Paul) was a student of Gamaliel given what i said of Saul actions earlier.
If you think the religion survived because it's from God, then I do understand why you would think that, after all if God can do anything - he would ensure the survival of his own following would he not?However this does beg the question as to why the Bible was edited so in the first place by the first churches.

Pildit · Apr 28, 2008

C2C - I haven't yet addressed all you wrote cus I've not been feeling well. I will do so.

treeoflife · May 1, 2008

(Pildit;47291)
C2C - I haven't yet addressed all you wrote cus I've not been feeling well. I will do so.

Do not negelect the most popular of verses in the Bible:

John 3:16-17For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

It's true, God does hate sin... He knows the desctruction and chaos that sin causes FAR greater than any man knows... and He hates sin with RIGHTEOUS indignation. To obey His commandments is for our own good. If God says, "This is bad," why would we question Him?All sins have been paid for... the ones you can think of, and the ones you can't think of. Jesus did not come into the world that you should be condemned... but that you would be freed. God so loved you, and every other soul and this is why He did it. What love must God have to give up His Son? It is a great love indeed.There is a pardadox though, confusing to some... because God says the soul that sins shall die. And, God does and will look on the sinner (not just the sin) with righteous indignation, and be just to punish it. He offers you the cloak of His son, so that when Justice comes... you will be justified in Him.

For He loved you so much, that He paid everyone's sin debt who believes. :bible:

Pildit · May 13, 2008

I totally don't mind seeing them again.I'll catch up with everything in here a little later, I just got back from vacation/trip, so I'm well again and have "fresh eyes".

thisistheendtimes · May 20, 2008

Pildit,Are you a LOVING person? (because "God is LOVE").You have a PASSION (a passion for TRUTH).The search for truth must be orderly and methodical (only ONE clearly defined and accurately expressed question at a time,...because sometimes the questions conflict/interfere with each other).We must also learn to distinguish between words and concepts/ideas because words are used to refer to some ideas that are not always defined well (for instance, is the objective to be a 'GODLOVER' or a 'christian', do you just want to be CALLED a "Christian" or are you sincere?).I'm going to include a post I just wrote because it is very relevant to your disappointment of the traditional teachings of Christianity and your sincere search for genuine devotion to the creator.---------------------------------------------------I'm 54 years old and have been a Christian for 22 years. I grew up in a severely dysfunctional family with parents that divorced when I was young and I suffered 51 years of suicidal depression (statistically common for children of divorced parents...subconscious identity crisis).So the things I'm going to say will sound unconventional, but they come from a lifetime of pain, suffering, heartbreak, introspection, searching for truth, love, and an identity.When I was 31, I became convinced that the bible held the truth of God (until then, I was searching for His true identity). The first 20 years were kind of 'dry' because all I found in these 'christian club' traditional teachings were 'mechanical' (go through the motions, do this, do that, follow the rules, read this, etc.). The teachings from traditional 'christianity' didn't satisfy my heart. I was like you, I was searching for MORE.Well, there is MORE (LOVE). TRUE Christianity is a LOVE, not a 'faith'. It is based on being 'true blue' and having an honest to goodness LOVE for the creator. Faith (trust in) should be borne out of LOVE for God (like the way someone would have love for their dad, when I was young, I also had faith in my dad...BECAUSE I LOVED him). I also have faith in the laws of physics, but I don't love them.You see, there is a SECOND message in scripture (a DEEPER message) that those who worship Him with their lips (CALL themselves "Christian) cannot understand or see. This is the "STRONG delusion" that has been in effect all throughout history,...the 'babylon' of the heart (the MYSTERY that nobody WANTS to see...the doctrines of the heart are the stumbling block, Ezekiel 14:4-8 in the KJV), and no matter how much the true message is told to "christianity", there will be ENDLESS INTELLECTUAL OBJECTIONS because they have "REFUSED TO LOVE THE TRUTH and so BE SAVED" (2 Thessalonians 2:10).Christianity has always been under the strong delusion because actually BEing a loving and just/righteous person is not 'convenient', it's much easier to 'follow the leader', conform to rules, simply read and INTERPRET text (as though it's a 'MAP to God') and glorify one's self as a master scholar/intellectual. It is still believed/taught that we should walk by FAITH, but we should "WALK BY THE SPIRIT" (Galatians 5:16 and 25). The word of God is the "SWORD of the SPIRIT" (Ephesians 6:17). The bible is the INTRODUCTORY doctrine of Jesus (Hebrews 6:1) and the "WORD OF TRUTH" (2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 1:13, John 14:6). We are to know God as "ABBA FATHER" (dear father), NOT "MASTER" ('taskmaster'),Romans 8:15, Galatians 4:6 and have no fear of Him (1 John 4:18, Isaiah 29:13, Mark 12:30) because we should be a "FRIEND" of God (James 2:23).The 'sin laws' were abolished (Ephesians 2:15) and we are under the law of LIBERTY (James 1:25 and 2:12). We are justified IN CHRIST (1 Corinthians 6:11, Galatians 2:16 and 17) and wisdom IN CHRIST is not in parables (Matthew 13:13).Everything before the spirit was given (ancient scriptures, devotions/feasts, worship habits/Bereans, terminology, etc.), John 7:39, are irrelevant to New Testament devotion. We are obligated to do the "works of God" (John 6:28 and 29) by believing in Him so our goodness will not be by compulsion, but of our own freewill conscience (Philemon verse 14).There should NO "SELF abasement" (no self abatement/abandonment, Colossians 2:18 and 23). We should KNOW who we are (establish identity/individuality) so that we can have a TRULY 'PERSON'al relationship with The Lord ("I am who I am", Exodus 3:14, the Father's name FOREVER) and He can have one with us, His spirit "yearns jealously", James 4:5 (also, SELF discipline for repentance IN CHRIST is only possible with a strong sense of SELF). We should have 'tears of sorrow' in our heart about those who suffer misfortune ("rivers of living water", John 7:38, Revelation 7:16 (sorrow makes us sad/"poor in spirit", Matthew 5:3, the PRESENT heaven will be in our heart) and we should be transformed (new creation) by the renewal of our MIND (Romans 12:2, the heart can't THINK).This is a "MORE EXCELLENT WAY" of devotion (for the N.T. GODLY Christian, 1 Corinthians 12:31) because we should abide/live by "the GREATEST of these" (1 Corinthians 13:13) and have our CONSCIENCE PURIFIED ALSO (Hebrews 9:14). Adam and Eve ate of the tree of conscience and we should learn how to use that knowledge properly (Hebrews 5:14). These are just some of the better things (Hebrews 6:9) that belong to salvation. These are the "DEPTHS of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10).Mankind has always replaced God's 3 gracious gifts to humanity...1) creation (Father)2) salvation (Son)3) Godliness teaching (Spirit)...with the teachings and protocol of MAN (the SIXTH day creation)...666So, that you didn't find the teachings of man's institutional church satisfactory and it left your heart empty,....CONGRATULATIONS, you can "enter by the door" (John 10:1).All verses are from the RSV (I find it the most understandable and true to the real message).-----------------------------------I think this post explains alot (clarifies) about a TRUE and sincere devotion/relationship with The Lord. A loving dad still has rules/requirements about who enters the house. Love does not conform to a science textbook. The creator of the universe doesn't operate on a human level and cannot be expressed completely/properly with words/questions. Human understanding simply doesn't apply to Him.Consider yourself blessed that the WORDLY (carnal) devotion didn't satisfy your heart, the SPIRITUAL devotion will.

Pildit · May 24, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;43526)
Quote:Jesus was tempted but never gave in. He had cause for wraith but didn't express it. He could have Conquered but instead He loved. No one that follows Christ the way He showed us to live can fail to live a moral and upright life. Can't agree or disagree on this one right now. I can't only agree that is the case within Christianity.C2C- "I can't only agree that is the case within Christianity." Did you mean Can instead? If you didn't I must say your statement makes no sense to me.
Yes I did, sorry Typo!
C2C- Yes some are like that and you shouldn't follow their examples either but also don't be too fast to condemn. While it may have been intentionable what they acted wrong you can't say for sure that they didn't repent of it and seek God's wisdom and instruction so that they wouldn't fail that same way again. Granted, not all repent, some try to justify their actions or words but in the end that will be burned up and they will feel the loss when they stand before Jesus. As to the second part. I do not want to take credit for that example as it wasn't mine originally but Ravi Zachariah's a Christian Apologist.
Totally understand that, it wasn't a general thing - but I have met a few who are like that.

Pildit · May 24, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;43527)
C2C- Yes history can be misleading if the writer has an ulterior motive. Before you say it, the bible writers didn't have one. In order to be followers of Christ they had to report the truth and besides their tales all overlap though they were written at different times and in distance regions. Also in regards to Paul, He learned directly from the risen Christ not from the original disciples as recorded in Acts. As to second hand accounts I didn't mention those I merely spoke of different observers of the same incident. Sometimes a different vantage point can yield results not seen from the prominent account. Like someone witnessing a crime from across the street instead of inside the house. It doesn't make it 2nd hand just from a different vantage point.
It's not always about a different vantage point though, it's about people not actually even being there. Also why is that written works from some of the people closest to Jesus were left out of the Bible purely to get Christianity to appeal to the masses?

Pildit · May 24, 2008

(Called 2 Conquer;43529)
C2C- Most have a favorate bible. I personally Like the NIV but when I study I reference many bibles including paraphased bibles. Some prefer Byzintine over Alexandrian texts. For the record the OT is easily varified by writing Isreal to the people that preserve the dead sea scrolls and other historical finds of biblical artifacts. The NT was written down by many house churches with thousands recovered written in greek. While there are some variations in these records but they were correspondence related, that is letters between house churches and letters from other apostles. Persoanally I find the Guttenburg bible to be incredibly accurate though you need to find a competent latin translator to read it.
Fair enough, I personally only own NIV and KJV even so I often cross reference between the two.
C2C- if you look at the religions that have detailed prophecies, you will see the Bible stands alone. Most "holy" book are by author unknown but some, most notably the Qur`an are written by one person claiming to have heard from God. Their writing is simple without the multiple layers of learning that become apparent as a person grows in spiritual maturity that the Bible has. If you look on the prophecy section of this forum and find a thread about 60 prophecies and their fullfillments that may enlightne you a bit as to just how hard it would be to fake the biblical Messiah. Yes maybe one of the authors could have read and writen their accounts to taylor Jesus to the prophecies listed in the OT but all of them? No, they weren't in the same place to cross reference each other during their writing. Also, most were dead by the time John got to his. In fact, I believe if I am correct, all but John were dead before the year 90. If all the Gospels were written at the same time in Jesusalem, for example, I would probably agree with you but it didn't happen that way.
It still doesn't have to be that they were there at the same time. These stories would have survived through word of mouth, as well as written texts. They all would have known of the prophecies of the OT, which if they are all so specific that one couldn't doubt it was Jesus doing these things - then they are also so specific that any one person could write about them happening without much wavering between writers.
C2C- Read my last and do the math. The odds are against your view being right. If as I stated before, the disciples all got together and wrote the gospels at the same time in the same place maybe but it didn't happen that way. They were isolated from each other and most never saw each other after going out to preach.
I've had this "math" quoted to me many times, and as well as the above I'd like to add that not all exact circumstances could be known.Still maybe we should talk about prophecies some more. Biblical and modern personal. I'll find that prophecies thread. Perhaps you should pick one or a few though to discuss as you know much more about it than I, if this is the case - please do give me references and I'll also read for myself in the bible.

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