Strong delusions

Helen · Feb 10, 2018

@VictoryinJesus I believe the OT is 'of blood' and sacrifice for sin or judgement...and in the NT the blood of Jesus is enough ..more than enough for God. He 'needs' no other blood spilled.

Because of man's greed and sin there will be blood again...but nothing of God's doing. " He saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied.." And...it was finished.
I think we are on the same page.

Davy · Feb 12, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
With that said, I would like to ask what you believe the "strong delusion" will be. I have heard it said this "strong delusion" comes only during the seven year tribulation. Why only then? What is this truth that was not received? I'm not expecting for anyone to agree, but His word seems to suggest what the strong delusions God sends are.
....

I hardly know where to begin. It seems like you've done enough total Bible study, so I'm a bit surprised you're not aware of what the "strong delusion" of 2 Thess.2 is.

Remember in 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul said two events must happen first, prior to Christ's coming and our gathering to Him. There must first be a great apostasy (falling away), and the man of sin must be revealed sitting in a temple in Jerusalem (early 1st century Church father interpretation). Paul showed how that false one will work great signs and wonders, and exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

In Matthew 24, our Lord Jesus showed seven main signs of the very end of this world. Early in the chapter He warned of many coming in His name saying they are Christ. But... in the Matt.24:23-26 verses, He was pointing to a singular false messiah coming to deceive, working the great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect. In that, He linked it to the time of the end of this world with the "great tribulation" He mentioned.

Likewise in 1 John 2:18, John was pointing to a singular coming antichrist figure, and the idea of many antichrists. John said they had heard that antichrist would come, and that's about the singular antichrist Jesus warned about in those Matt.24:23-26 verses. In Matthew 24:24, the KJV translators brought the Greek word pseudochristos into English as "false Christs" plural. But the actual Greek word is made up of two Greek words, pseudo which means false or fake, and Christos which means Christ, singular. When the deceived come up to us and say, "Lo, here is Christ, or there", that's about a singular false Christ, not many. So this difference must be understood because our Lord Jesus covered both the coming singular antichrist, and the many antichrists, just as Apostle Paul also did in 2 Thess.2.

In 2 Thess.2, Paul was covering the idea of a coming singular antichrist ("man of sin") and the many antichrists ("mystery of iniquity"). The 'mystery of iniquity' idea is from the Old Testament about the "workers of iniquity". It relates to Christ's parable of the tares of the field. If you don't understand the tares parable, you probably won't understand that "mystery of iniquity". But essentially, it's really just about the many antichrists that follow the devil, i.e., the children of darkness, the workers of iniquity.

2 Thess.2 reveals the coming of the pseudo-Christ of Matt.24:23-26. It is the same "another beast" of Rev.13 that is to work those great signs and miracles, making fire come down from heaven in the sight of men. He will institute an idol in false worship for all to bow to, much in the same way the king of Babylon did during Daniel's days. He will claim to be The Christ, which is what his having two horns like a lamb points to.

The word antichrist really is not specific enough for what the coming false one is to do on earth at the very end per those Scriptures. Greek pseudo-Christ, or false-Messiah is more fitting. So who would believe that coming pseudo-Christ could be the True Christ Jesus, the True Messiah? It should be easy to understand how the orthodox Jews will believe it. It should also be easy to understand how deceived brethren in Christ's Church might 'fall away' to that fake, and become apostates, and no longer found as a "chaste virgin" to Jesus when He does return afterwards.

Where did this sin of a false one wanting to be God originate?

It was the very first sin, the sin of what Satan did in the time of old at his original rebellion against God. It was his job to guard God's Throne and he instead coveted God's Throne for himself, wanting to be God. That is exactly what the coming false one of 2 Thess.2 is trying to do in Jerusalem, i.e., set himself up in place of God to be worshiped as God.

That... is what the "strong delusion" of that 2 Thess.2 chapter is about. Those who fall away to that false one in thinking he is our Lord Jesus having returned, or the orthodox Jews thinking that is Messiah, or any of the other religions on earth beliving that is their awaited holy one, that all represents falling away to the "strong delusion" God has setup for the deceived in the end.

bbyrd009 · Feb 12, 2018

Davy said:
But... in the Matt.24:23-26 verses, He was pointing to a singular false messiah coming to deceive, working the great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect.

24False messiahs and false prophets will arise

VictoryinJesus · Feb 12, 2018

Davy said:
I hardly know where to begin. It seems like you've done enough total Bible study, so I'm a bit surprised you're not aware of what the "strong delusion" of 2 Thess.2 is.

Remember in 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul said two events must happen first, prior to Christ's coming and our gathering to Him. There must first be a great apostasy (falling away), and the man of sin must be revealed sitting in a temple in Jerusalem (early 1st century Church father interpretation). Paul showed how that false one will work great signs and wonders, and exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

In Matthew 24, our Lord Jesus showed seven main signs of the very end of this world. Early in the chapter He warned of many coming in His name saying they are Christ. But... in the Matt.24:23-26 verses, He was pointing to a singular false messiah coming to deceive, working the great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect. In that, He linked it to the time of the end of this world with the "great tribulation" He mentioned.

Likewise in 1 John 2:18, John was pointing to a singular coming antichrist figure, and the idea of many antichrists. John said they had heard that antichrist would come, and that's about the singular antichrist Jesus warned about in those Matt.24:23-26 verses. In Matthew 24:24, the KJV translators brought the Greek word pseudochristos into English as "false Christs" plural. But the actual Greek word is made up of two Greek words, pseudo which means false or fake, and Christos which means Christ, singular. When the deceived come up to us and say, "Lo, here is Christ, or there", that's about a singular false Christ, not many. So this difference must be understood because our Lord Jesus covered both the coming singular antichrist, and the many antichrists, just as Apostle Paul also did in 2 Thess.2.

In 2 Thess.2, Paul was covering the idea of a coming singular antichrist ("man of sin") and the many antichrists ("mystery of iniquity"). The 'mystery of iniquity' idea is from the Old Testament about the "workers of iniquity". It relates to Christ's parable of the tares of the field. If you don't understand the tares parable, you probably won't understand that "mystery of iniquity". But essentially, it's really just about the many antichrists that follow the devil, i.e., the children of darkness, the workers of iniquity.

2 Thess.2 reveals the coming of the pseudo-Christ of Matt.24:23-26. It is the same "another beast" of Rev.13 that is to work those great signs and miracles, making fire come down from heaven in the sight of men. He will institute an idol in false worship for all to bow to, much in the same way the king of Babylon did during Daniel's days. He will claim to be The Christ, which is what his having two horns like a lamb points to.

The word antichrist really is not specific enough for what the coming false one is to do on earth at the very end per those Scriptures. Greek pseudo-Christ, or false-Messiah is more fitting. So who would believe that coming pseudo-Christ could be the True Christ Jesus, the True Messiah? It should be easy to understand how the orthodox Jews will believe it. It should also be easy to understand how deceived brethren in Christ's Church might 'fall away' to that fake, and become apostates, and no longer found as a "chaste virgin" to Jesus when He does return afterwards.

Where did this sin of a false one wanting to be God originate?

It was the very first sin, the sin of what Satan did in the time of old at his original rebellion against God. It was his job to guard God's Throne and he instead coveted God's Throne for himself, wanting to be God. That is exactly what the coming false one of 2 Thess.2 is trying to do in Jerusalem, i.e., set himself up in place of God to be worshiped as God.

That... is what the "strong delusion" of that 2 Thess.2 chapter is about. Those who fall away to that false one in thinking he is our Lord Jesus having returned, or the orthodox Jews thinking that is Messiah, or any of the other religions on earth beliving that is their awaited holy one, that all represents falling away to the "strong delusion" God has setup for the deceived in the end.

I get what you are saying. It is the same as I have been instructed for most of my life. Endtimes: This happens, and then this, and then this...in a neat plan. For me, enough questions have been raised for me to realize I should ask questions:

One) What is the temple of God? We are told our sight and affection is to be above; on THAT Jerusalem which is above, which Jerusalem we are citizens of.

Revelation 21:22-27
[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. [23] And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. [24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. [25] And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. [26] And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. [27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So how is he (singular) going to defile it?

In Luke 13:27-29 who is being spoken to: [27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. [28] There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. [29] And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

There are many false prophets and antichrist. yes, they are controlled by the head which is anti...:same as we are led by our head which IS Christ.

Judas was called the son of perdition. (So that the scripture is fulfilled.)

Revelation 17:16-17
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. [17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. --we see this image in Daniel. Kingdoms through out history that give their power to the beast (all lead by one head:antichrist) until that final Kingdom breaks and consumes all the others.

Settle for me why God would destroy a temple made-with-hands and build a spiritual house of God...only to go back to the OT of flesh for a seven year period where a man stands in a man-made temple and claims he is God?

Anti-Christ has been going on:
Acts 19:26-29
[26] Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands: [27] So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth. [28] And when they heard these sayings , they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians. [29] And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre.

Confusion. Which brings a final point. The delusion is: who do you say Jesus Christ is?

John 12:34-43
[34] The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? [35] Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. [36] While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. [37] But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: [38] That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? [39] Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, [40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. [41] These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. [42] Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him , lest they should be put out of the synagogue: [43] For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Notice God choose of those that had not bowed a knee to other idols and blinded the rest. Two distinct groups. The elect. And those blinded. The elect see Christ. Those blind do not see Christ. We are not waiting for the elect to open their eyes, because He never blinded them. It was "the rest" God blinded.

Romans 11:4
[4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Davy · Feb 12, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
I get what you are saying. It is the same as I have been instructed for most of my life. Endtimes: This happens, and then this, and then this...in a neat plan. For me, enough questions have been raised for me to realize I should ask questions:

One) What is the temple of God? We are told our sight and affection is to be above; on THAT Jerusalem which is above, which Jerusalem we are citizens of.

....

So how is he (singular) going to defile it?

I recognize that it seems to be a lot to keep up with, but that's why Paul told Timothy to study to be approved of God, a workman who need not be ashamed. If you think about it, the average American has 12 years of public schooling, and many go onto to four years of college level work, or go to a trade school for two years, etc. So how much time should we give to disciplining ourselves in God's Word?

In response to your Bible question, how is the coming "man of sin" going to defile the spiritual temple, the answer is -- it is impossible to defile the true spiritual temple of Ephesians 2 which Paul said its foundation is built upon the Apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ as its Chief Cornerstone. If any member tried to defile it they would be cast out. That is why it is a spiritual temple, not built with hands. Because of this, it leaves only one possibility of what the "temple of God" is in 2 Thessalonians 2. It is the physical temple in the literal city of Jerusalem. That is how the first century Church fathers also understood which temple Paul was speaking of, a literal temple in Jerusalem.

Rev 11:1-2
11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
KJV

That is for the timing of the very end of this world, the latter 1260 days of Daniel's prophetic "one week". It shows a standing temple in Jerusalem, for that is that "holy city" being mentioned, and is further shown in the later Rev.11 verses about God's two witnesses. The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have been sacrificing heifers on a hill overlooking the temple mount for several years now, and have been gathering materials to build another temple there. The events of the "abomination of desolation" per Daniel 11 and Christ's Olivet Discourse requires a standing temple in Jerusalem.

....
There are many false prophets and antichrist. yes, they are controlled by the head which is anti...:same as we are led by our head which IS Christ.

Jesus gave a similar warning to the five foolish virgins of Matt.25 also, and those ten virgins represent believers on Him. Apostle Paul was specific on the doctrine of sin. Though we are not perfect like our Lord Jesus, like John said in 1 John 1, Jesus forgives us when we repent and cleanses us from sin. But the idea Jesus was pointing to with those in Luke 13, and Matt.7, is the 'working of iniquity', which means doing evil and not caring whether they sin or not (see Isaiah 5:18-19).

Judas was called the son of perdition. (So that the scripture is fulfilled.)

If you're referring to 2 Thess.2 with the coming Antichrist also called the "son of perdition" there, no, that has not yet been fulfilled. Paul wrote 2 Thess.2 after... Judas had already been dead. It's impossible for him to have been speaking of Judas there. In John 6:70, Jesus said Judas "is a devil". The "son of perdition" title is linked to the devil himself, because not even Judas has been judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire yet; the devil and his angels have... already been judged and sentenced to perish. That is where the idea of perdition in that originates, pointing to the devil himself.

....

Settle for me why God would destroy a temple made-with-hands and build a spiritual house of God...only to go back to the OT of flesh for a seven year period where a man stands in a man-made temple and claims he is God?

Do the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem that want another literal temple believe in a spiritual temple not built with hands? Are they now believers on Christ Jesus? I didn't know that if they are. They still consider themselves under the old covenant, which required temple worship and sacrifices. So we cannot compare Christ with them since the majority of them today still reject Christ Jesus.

Anti-Christ has been going on:
Acts 19:26-29
[26] Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands: [27] So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth. [28] And when they heard these sayings , they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians. [29] And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre.

Confusion. Which brings a final point. The delusion is: who do you say Jesus Christ is?

John 12:34-43
[34] The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? [35] Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. [36] While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. [37] But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: [38] That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? [39] Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, [40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. [41] These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. [42] Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him , lest they should be put out of the synagogue: [43] For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Notice God choose of those that had not bowed a knee to other idols and blinded the rest. Two distinct groups. The elect. And those blinded. The elect see Christ. Those blind do not see Christ. We are not waiting for the elect to open their eyes, because He never blinded them. It was "the rest" God blinded.

Romans 11:4
[4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Concerning the Antichrist, or "antichrist" of 1 John 2:18, John said they had heard that the "antichrist" would come. Where did they hear that? They heard it from The Gospel Witness, our Lord Jesus and His Apostles. In John 12 through 16, Jesus said the prince of this world has been judged, will be cast out, and is coming. That is where they heard "antichrist" is coming.

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
KJV

The majority cannot accept it, but by that Jesus showed the devil himself is coming. And in Revelation 12:7 forward he showed the devil and his angels being cast out of the heavenly, there being no more place in heaven found for them; they are cast down to this earth, meaning in our... dimension.

So definitely, the coming singular Antichrist figure will be a reality, and not just an idea of evil men that have worked since Cain.

Yet the idea of the "many antichrists" that John also mentioned in 1 John 2:18 is... about the workers of iniquity, i.e., the followers of the devil. They have been with man ever since God proclaimed the emnity in Genesis 3:14-15.

VictoryinJesus · Feb 12, 2018

Davy said:
it is impossible to defile the true spiritual temple of Ephesians 2 which Paul said its foundation is built upon the Apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ as its Chief Cornerstone. If any member tried to defile it they would be cast out. That is why it is a spiritual temple, not built with hands. Because of this, it leaves only one possibility of what the "temple of God" is in 2 Thessalonians 2. It is the physical temple in the literal city of Jerusalem. That is how the first century Church fathers also understood which temple Paul was speaking of, a literal temple in Jerusalem.

I agree concerning the spiritual temple of God. That is the point I have been struggling to make..."that only leaves one possibility". Can you explain to me why God will consider what is done in this physical temple built with hands an abomination? What makes this temple Holy?

Acts 17:24-25
[24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; [25] Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

Mark 14:58
[58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Davy · Feb 13, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
I agree concerning the spiritual temple of God. That is the point I have been struggling to make..."that only leaves one possibility". Can you explain to me why God will consider what is done in this physical temple built with hands an abomination? What makes this temple Holy?

Ps 132:13-14
13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; He hath desired it for His habitation.
14 This is My rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
KJV

It's not just about the idea of a physical temple, it's the idea of Zion, Jerusalem. God chose it to dwell there forever. And since Satan rebelled in coveting God's Throne, he also covets the sides of the north, pointing to Zion in Jerusalem (isa.14).

The 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 event of the "man of sin" certainly is not about ideas of Christ's spiritual temple. The subject there is about a false one coming to play God, literally. So it's especially about false worship to another instead of our Heavenly Father through His Son Jesus Christ. The "temple of God" there is pointing to the traditional temple in Jerusalem, which is where Daniel 11 and Matthew 24 revealed where the "abomination of desolation" idol will be setup for the very end of this world. That's the actual event Apostle Paul is talking about in that 2 Thess.2 chapter involving a false one coming and false worship, and that false one doing the great signs and wonders to deceive with. So none of that understanding is to be simply thrown out the window when understanding about that "temple of God" usage there.

It's not us who want another physical temple built in Jerusalem. It's the ultra-orthodox Jews who want it, because they consider themselves still under the old covenant, which required sacrifices and temple worship. I don't think that is at all difficult to understand.

brakelite · Feb 13, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
With that said, I would like to ask what you believe the "strong delusion" will be. I have heard it said this "strong delusion" comes only during the seven year tribulation. Why only then? What is this truth that was not received? I'm not expecting for anyone to agree, but His word seems to suggest what the strong delusions God sends are.

The delusion of who is Jesus Christ? They loved not the truth and because of not loving the truth which is the Son...God said He would send them strong delusions. "I also will choose their delusions," God says in (Isaiah 66:4-7)

The Jews were blinded to the truth. Only those broken recognized Jesus as the Son of God. The greatest deception surrounding the most scandalous act of love is: who the Son was, and is. Matthew 16: 15-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

There seems to be this delusion, all centered around the greatest act of love in the history of mankind...whom do you say went to the cross for sin?

Consider what they called Him:

Matthew 27:63
[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

They called Him a deceiver. A liar. A drunkard. We know it is not true because we see Him as the risen Christ; God in the flesh. But how many say otherwise?

And those followed Him were called no different: 2 Corinthians 6:7-8 [7] By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

No love of the truth=delusions to believe a lie, the lie that Christ was and is not God. No other deception counts as much as this one.

2 John 1:7-8
[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

"Believed not in the truth" of Christ.

John 8:44-45
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. [45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

The delusion is already here. People are already blind.

Romans 1:23-26
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. [24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Matthew 24:4-5
[4] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Ephesians 5:6
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

2 Timothy 3:13-14
[13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them ;

2 Chronicles 18:20-22
[20] Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord , and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? [21] And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him , and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. [22] Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

The delusion of: who is Christ?

Who is Christ indeed. The Rock upon which the entire edifice was to be built. Jesus, the only begotten Son of God. We have that, His own declaration on the one hand, and then we have from the 4th century a formula designed by man to define the indefinable. The trinity. Three coeval co-eternal beings, each one having the fullness of deity,but forming one indivisible whole. A formula which effectively denies the begotten Sonship of Christ.

n2thelight · Feb 13, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
he delusion of: who is Christ?

That about sums it up right there.
The strong delusion is for their own good,as they won't be judged in ignorance..

bbyrd009 · Feb 13, 2018

Davy said:
It's not us who want another physical temple built in Jerusalem.

ha--depends who you mean by "us" i guess.
The ppl "we" empower by voting for them are the enablers here, at least
the ultra-ortho returned to Jerusalem as vassals of US

VictoryinJesus · Feb 13, 2018

Davy said:
Ps 132:13-14
13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; He hath desired it for His habitation.
14 This is My rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
KJV

It's not just about the idea of a physical temple, it's the idea of Zion, Jerusalem. God chose it to dwell there forever. And since Satan rebelled in coveting God's Throne, he also covets the sides of the north, pointing to Zion in Jerusalem (isa.14).

The 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 event of the "man of sin" certainly is not about ideas of Christ's spiritual temple. The subject there is about a false one coming to play God, literally. So it's especially about false worship to another instead of our Heavenly Father through His Son Jesus Christ. The "temple of God" there is pointing to the traditional temple in Jerusalem, which is where Daniel 11 and Matthew 24 revealed where the "abomination of desolation" idol will be setup for the very end of this world. That's the actual event Apostle Paul is talking about in that 2 Thess.2 chapter involving a false one coming and false worship, and that false one doing the great signs and wonders to deceive with. So none of that understanding is to be simply thrown out the window when understanding about that "temple of God" usage there.

It's not us who want another physical temple built in Jerusalem. It's the ultra-orthodox Jews who want it, because they consider themselves still under the old covenant, which required sacrifices and temple worship. I don't think that is at all difficult to understand.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. What you said makes sense. I'm still not agreeing a hundred percent or convinced but will continue to read and ask Him; but you have helped greatly. My question still remains that since His Kingdom will fill the whole earth... why have God going backwards. I may be completely wrong and I am okay with that because no matter what happens going forward...God is good and full of mercy.

Daniel 2:35
[35] Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Daniel 2:44-45
[44] And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. [45] Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Davy · Feb 13, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
ha--depends who you mean by "us" i guess.
The ppl "we" empower by voting for them are the enablers here, at least
the ultra-ortho returned to Jerusalem as vassals of US

I refer to Christ's true Church of believers that don't need a physical temple; who else would I be referring to?

Davy · Feb 13, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Thank you for taking the time to explain. What you said makes sense. I'm still not agreeing a hundred percent or convinced but will continue to read and ask Him; but you have helped greatly. My question still remains that since His Kingdom will fill the whole earth... why have God going backwards. I may be completely wrong and I am okay with that because no matter what happens going forward...God is good and full of mercy.

Your welcome, but you still have a question about this final beast kingdom for the end of this world?

Are you misunderstanding that Christ's Kingdom is not established on this earth yet? If it were, then Jesus would be here on earth with us literally, and we would be reigning over the nations with Him.

So why... must this final beast kingdom take place before Christ's coming? Because it's going to act like pruning shears. It will prune many false branches off the Vine. Jesus and His Apostles told us what to expect, how to act during it, and to be ready to die even if it comes to that. We are not to fear but be strong in the Faith and waiting for His return.

VictoryinJesus · Feb 13, 2018

Davy said:
Your welcome, but you still have a question about this final beast kingdom for the end of this world?

Are you misunderstanding that Christ's Kingdom is not established on this earth yet? If it were, then Jesus would be here on earth with us literally, and we would be reigning over the nations with Him.

So why... must this final beast kingdom take place before Christ's coming? Because it's going to act like pruning shears. It will prune many false branches off the Vine. Jesus and His Apostles told us what to expect, how to act during it, and to be ready to die even if it comes to that. We are not to fear but be strong in the Faith and waiting for His return.

Maybe we are not too far apart. I agree but my only hinderance, and maybe I have greatly misunderstood what is spoken of as going to take place: God would never bless this physical temple or the resuming of the daily sacrifice. It is yet another slap in the face of the Son and more mockery of God. That is my only problem. Why would God bless the work of their hands or what they offer up?

Davy · Feb 13, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Maybe we are not too far apart. I agree but my only hinderance, and maybe I have greatly misunderstood what is spoken of as going to take place: God would never bless this physical temple or the resuming of the daily sacrifice. It is yet another slap in the face of the Son and more mockery of God. That is my only problem. Why would God bless the work of their hands or what they offer up?

I don't get where you would think God would be blessing the un-believing Jews building of another temple. God is going to allow the pseudo-Christ to come and play Messiah in their rebuilt temple for their deception there in Jerusalem, and for anyone else who will believe that false one is our Lord. That's not going to be a blessing, it's going to be a huge... 'trap', a spiritual one, and that's why Apostle Paul called it the "strong delusion" in 2 Thess.2.

To the deceived unbelieving Jews, that temple will be the true "temple of God", like Apostle Paul was pointing to with a literal physical temple in Jerusalem. But to God, it will be false, and Jesus will flatten it when He returns, which is what the actual event of not one stone standing on top of another is about that He foretold of in His Olivet Discourse, which many think was fulfilled in 70 A.D., but really was not.

When Jesus does appear, it will be the deceived unbelieving Jews that will be saying for the hills to 'fall on us', and wanting to hide because of their shame. That because the True Christ will then be revealed to them at His coming there in Jerusalem (see Luke 23 about the daughters of Jerusalem who cried for Jesus).

bbyrd009 · Feb 13, 2018

Davy said:
I refer to Christ's true Church of believers that don't need a physical temple; who else would I be referring to?

ha well, the "us" or "we" that i defined, that many "Christians" actually pledge allegiance to?

brakelite · Feb 13, 2018

Another great delusion is what modern Christianity has been blinded to...that the beast power has already entered the temple of God...no new temple, regardless of who builds it could ever be defined as the temple of God. Therefore the prophecy in Thess. speaking of this entrance into God's temple by the Antichrist can mean only one thing, because there is only one temple of God that he could enter...the church. And he did that 1700 years ago.
The problem that presents us with is in delivering the message that calls God's people to come out of that now corrupted system. Why is that a problem? Because God's people no longer recognise that they are in it. According to the modern order of things, the reformation is over, so there is no longer a corrupt system to leave. The Antichrist is well and truly in control...all are now wondering after him...queuing up at his doorstep pleading for an "audience"...and agreeing with him that only he has the 'moral' mandate and experience and position to lead the NWO to its final global climax. Certainly a great delusion.

bbyrd009 · Feb 14, 2018

brakelite said:
because there is only one temple of God that he could enter.

not that i disagree with your conclusion there, but this premise might be expanded in light of the concept of each soul as a temple, being constructed. Iow another temple of God is an individual soul

Davy · Feb 14, 2018

brakelite said:
Another great delusion is what modern Christianity has been blinded to...that the beast power has already entered the temple of God...no new temple, regardless of who builds it could ever be defined as the temple of God. Therefore the prophecy in Thess. speaking of this entrance into God's temple by the Antichrist can mean only one thing, because there is only one temple of God that he could enter...the church. And he did that 1700 years ago.

That of course is impossible. The true spiritual temple is a spiritual entity, not a physical church that the wicked can enter. And the Ephesians spiritual temple cannot be corrupted, its foundation according to Apostle Paul being the Apostles and prophets, and Jesus Christ as its Cornerstone. If it could be corrupted, then it would mean Christ and Christianity would be a lie and powerless. That is how some men have tricked their congregations into believing the "man of sin" enters into the spiritual temple, wrongly treating the "temple of God" in 2 Thess.2 as if it were the Ephesians spiritual temple.

Furthermore, one named Antiochus Epiphanes in 170-165 B.C. went into the temple in Jerusalem and sacrificed swine on the altar and spread its broth inside the temple, and then placed an idol abomination to Zeus in false worship. That represented some of the events in Daniel 11 as a blueprint for the future "abomination of desolation". In Matt.24 and Mark 13, about 200 years after Antiochus, our Lord Jesus warned us about the placing of the "abomination of desolation" per Daniel, which means to look for another, but like the blueprint of Antiochus. That fulfillment has yet to occur, and the Romans in 70 A.D. certainly did not fulfill it, because it requires a standing temple in Jerusalem. The temple burned down when the Romans tried to seize it in 70 A.D., so that did not fulfill the prophecy.

ScottA · Feb 14, 2018

brakelite said:
Another great delusion is what modern Christianity has been blinded to...that the beast power has already entered the temple of God...no new temple, regardless of who builds it could ever be defined as the temple of God. Therefore the prophecy in Thess. speaking of this entrance into God's temple by the Antichrist can mean only one thing, because there is only one temple of God that he could enter...the church. And he did that 1700 years ago.
The problem that presents us with is in delivering the message that calls God's people to come out of that now corrupted system. Why is that a problem? Because God's people no longer recognise that they are in it. According to the modern order of things, the reformation is over, so there is no longer a corrupt system to leave. The Antichrist is well and truly in control...all are now wondering after him...queuing up at his doorstep pleading for an "audience"...and agreeing with him that only he has the 'moral' mandate and experience and position to lead the NWO to its final global climax. Certainly a great delusion.

Davy said:
That of course is impossible. The true spiritual temple is a spiritual entity, not a physical church that the wicked can enter. And the Ephesians spiritual temple cannot be corrupted, its foundation according to Apostle Paul being the Apostles and prophets, and Jesus Christ as its Cornerstone. If it could be corrupted, then it would mean Christ and Christianity would be a lie and powerless. That is how some men have tricked their congregations into believing the "man of sin" enters into the spiritual temple, wrongly treating the "temple of God" in 2 Thess.2 as if it were the Ephesians spiritual temple.

Furthermore, one named Antiochus Epiphanes in 170-165 B.C. went into the temple in Jerusalem and sacrificed swine on the altar and spread its broth inside the temple, and then placed an idol abomination to Zeus in false worship. That represented some of the events in Daniel 11 as a blueprint for the future "abomination of desolation". In Matt.24 and Mark 13, about 200 years after Antiochus, our Lord Jesus warned us about the placing of the "abomination of desolation" per Daniel, which means to look for another, but like the blueprint of Antiochus. That fulfillment has yet to occur, and the Romans in 70 A.D. certainly did not fulfill it, because it requires a standing temple in Jerusalem. The temple burned down when the Romans tried to seize it in 70 A.D., so that did not fulfill the prophecy.

With very little exception, Christendom as a whole is under the [strong] delusion that "this generation" which Jesus identified as when "all these things will come"...is somehow...anyhow...not "this generation" as He said. Not seeing what they expected to see, they looked to the future for what came "in an hour they were not aware of", and so they taught the world to do the same.

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