Subjective Religion vs Objective Christianity 2

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soul man

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Subjective

If we had nothing but the Old Testament, all religion would be subjective. By this, I mean everything that is Godly would have to be earned. For this to happen, the law would have to work two ways. One, to get anything from God, you would have to keep the law. Two, if you did not keep the law, it would work against you and restrict you from being who you were in Christ, it might even destroy you, Romans 7:11.

This makes you wonder why anyone would want to be under the law. But there are some Christians that are under some law, either Moses law, some religious man's law or some doctrinal law. Law is what runs religion, Grace is the power that flows out of the Cross, an objectively finished work that no one can add to. Listed are some facts of law vs Grace.

1) Christ is the end of the law, Romans 10:4. This means that Christ's death on the cross was what ended the law. More so, it means that the law was put into Christ along with sin and when he died law and sin died with him, 1 Peter 2:24, Romans 7:4.
Our freedom from the law and sin is as complete as his death on the cross was real.

2) Old Testament law was given to expose sin, but the exposure of sin was never freedom from sin. As it is with many today, they know they are guilty of sin, but guilt does not free them from their sin. Sin is dealt with at the cross and the sinner must go to the Cross to be free from sin, 1 John 1:7.

3) The law that was given to Moses, the Torah, and even the law of the kingdom in the days of Jesus of Nazareth, was to be temporary. The law could not save from sin, the Father knew that in time, it had to go. The blood of Jesus Christ would wash away all sin.

4) law produces self works, Grace produces Christ Works in us. This is the sharp distinction between the gospel to Israel and the gospel of Paul to the Gentiles. Israel, is in un-birthed state, will always be bound by the law and Covenants, but the born-again will be free from the law.

The born-again will have Commandments to obey as did Israel of old. There are in fact over 377 Commandments in Paul's Epistles, but all of them are love Commandments. That is, there is no judgment attached to the Commandment. Believers are to serve God out of love and not out of law.

When it comes to righteousness, objectively the believer is birthed into Christ's righteousness, but subjectively a believer under the law must earn righteousness. It must always be remembered that anything a believer does within himself to please God, constitutes a religious act separate from the Christ who lives in him.

Since God placed Christ in the believer, He will not look to the believer to do anything himself aside from Christ in him. This is what changed at the cross. Humans were crucified with Christ so that in Salvation Christ could be their only life and they would no longer live, Gal. 2:20.
 
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Windmillcharge

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It must always be remembered that anything a believer does within himself to please God, constitutes a religious act separate from the Christ who lives in him.

How does this work out with regard to what Jesus said about giving a drink to someone is the same as giving a drink to him? Matt10:42

God knows why we do things and will accept our worship/good deeds even when done from a cold unfeeling heart because we are seeking to obey him.
 

soul man

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How does this work out with regard to what Jesus said about giving a drink to someone is the same as giving a drink to him? Matt10:42

God knows why we do things and will accept our worship/good deeds even when done from a cold unfeeling heart because we are seeking to obey him.

Think it through, I'm saying the works are Christ now, you have no life of your own.
 
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Helen

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The born-again will have Commandments to obey as did Israel of old. There are in fact over 377 Commandments in Paul's Epistles, but all of them are love Commandments. That is, there is no judgment attached to the Commandment. Believers are to serve God out of love and not out of law.


Good OP...this snippet got my attention...can you site one or two for me?
377 seems to be a big number!! o_O
Except love, I can think of none. And most are fulfill within 'love' itself.

Thanks....H
 

soul man

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Good OP...this snippet got my attention...can you site one or two for me?
377 seems to be a big number!! o_O
Except love, I can think of none. And most are fulfill within 'love' itself.

Thanks....H

All of the Pauline Epistles must be considered one love commandment. Apart from him bringing correction to the groups he started at times, it is the greatest love story ever told. Even the correction allows the believer to look at Grace as a wooing aspect of Christ's love. Christ knows mankind had- has a sin-nature. I make many comments about the letter of the law, it keeps the believer bound to an old testament God that does not exsist any longer.
The simplest and greatest command Paul gives and sums up the matter, 1Cor. 13:13
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal.5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

There is no law against the spirit of love.
Believers that cannot see their death in Christ, Gal. 2:20, and the new life they have is Christ, Gal. 2:20, have a hard time with this message.
The knowledge of good and evil, judges everything based on that knowledge, and the believer is left with confusion of - what is truth. A message as simple as - Christ as the life of the believer- cannot be accepted. The fulfillment of God's love in them is beyond carnal comprehension.
 
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Windmillcharge

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Think it through, I'm saying the works are Christ now, you have no life of your own.

The life we have belongs to God, just as the car/house you are buying belongs to the finance company untill you have paid off the loan.
Guess who is res[oncible for maintaining said car/house/life it is not the finance company or God.

As Paul says the good I want to do I don't do, while the EVILI don't want to do I do.

The command we have to obey is to Love Jesus and as a result of that love, love others.

God knows we are going to fail not daily but minute by minute, but he wants us to try.
 
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soul man

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The life we have belongs to God, just as the car/house you are buying belongs to the finance company untill you have paid off the loan.
Guess who is res[oncible for maintaining said car/house/life it is not the finance company or God.

As Paul says the good I want to do I don't do, while the EVILI don't want to do I do.

The command we have to obey is to Love Jesus and as a result of that love, love others.

God knows we are going to fail not daily but minute by minute, but he wants us to try.

I beg to differ, Christ is the only life of the believer
 

Davy

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Many Christian brethren still don't understand our relationship to God's laws today under the New Covenant, when it's actually quite easy to understand.

New Testament Doctrine:
1 Tim 1:7-11
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;


9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

KJV

In Galatians, where the OP only partially quoted, what was left out was this. IF... we walk by The Spirit in Christ, then we are not under the law.

Clearly then, if... we do not... walk by The Spirit, then it means doing the works of unrighteousness like the above, for in Gal.5 Paul made a list of the works of the flesh like the above too.

This means our Lord Jesus did not... nail all of God's laws upon His cross. He nailed the laws written in ordinances (Col.2:14), like ceremonial ritual, sacrifices, blood ordinances, etc. He did not nail to His cross those things Paul mentioned above to Timothy. Those laws above are to protect us and our children, and to keep the peace.

There are evil factions in the world still today who know not Christ Jesus, and they want to tear down the Christian nations. One of the ways they try to do that is in some churches that falsely preach all of God's laws are dead. Paul never taught any such idea. What he taught was that WE... are dead to the law, IF... we walk by The Spirit, for doing the good works, there is no law against (Gal.5).

This is why even in the U.S. Supreme Court building, there is a wood engraving of Moses carrying the tablets of the Ten Commandments. It's about God's laws given to His people used to govern their society. This is why in Genesis 49:10 care of His law would never leave Judah until Shiloh (Jesus) comes to gather the people (means 2nd coming, not 1st).

So go around and tell brethren all of God's laws are now dead. All it will do is put them in danger, because they won't care whether they break the law or not, won't be checking themselves, and many of God's laws are written in today's society in the Christian nations, meaning you can go to jail for breaking most of the things on Apostle Paul's list above. In some states, murder is still subject to the death penalty!

Smooth talking like, "you don't have to worry about anything now, you can no longer break God's laws because they don't exist anymore". That's the devil talking, not our Lord Jesus by The Holy Spirit.
 
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