Jews and Salvation

(tim_from_pa;37872)
It is possible to be chosen of race, receive the Kingdom, receive the promises, and yet lack personal salvation, although lacking that is not God's intent.
Please Tim, back this up with ANY scripture,Im not doubting it without even giving it a chance, but I would like to know where the Father ever gives the Jews an "all expense paid, pass go-dont have to accept Christ-card"

The thing I think you may be missing Red is that the chosen are Not a single group anymore it is not Jews or the church or gentiles It is as Tim said the 12 tribes however 10 of those tribes are supposedly lost2 of the tribes make up modern day Israel or who we call the Jews the other ten tribes are spread throught the World remember Abraham was promised to be the father of many Nations.

(Red_Letters88;37877)
Please Tim, back this up with ANY scripture,Im not doubting it without even giving it a chance, but I would like to know where the Father ever gives the Jews an "all expense paid, pass go-dont have to accept Christ-card"
This thread started basically with the premise that the Jews should receive Christ like anyone else, but the author did not understand how they could be his chosen ones if they rejected Jesus. Or at least to that effect is what I gathered about this. I never said they should not receive Christ.I then introduced the two types of elections of race and grace. I claimed that the promises to the race are being confused with personal salvation (grace). Although they are related, and work together, it is still possible (so I claim) for the physical seed of Abraham to inherit the earthly promises and still be lost.Now for examples......Abraham's (Isaac and Jacob's) descendants were to become a nation and many nations:And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins They were to be mighty possessing the gate of their enemies:And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.They were to inherit a specific land:For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.Along that line, they were to inherit land other than in Israel:Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,They were to be populous and spread all over the Earth for a blessing:And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.There was to be an eternal monarchy over these people for all generations "until Shiloh comes" i.e. the second Coming of Christ:And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.Israel's population involving the fourth part of the world:Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!These are all national promises to Israel. On what are they based? God Himself said it to Abraham, "By myself I have sworn....."They are unconditional covenants because of the faith of Abraham, regardless of how his kids turned out. They can be saints, or the son of the devil so-to-speak (not having grace), but the promises still apply, and the foundation of these promise, by faith, is the same mechanism for GRACE (personal salvation). One obtains grace the same way.Why then are there earthly promises first? The promises say so, in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.That's God's intent, but they have the promises whether or not they live in grace. (c.f. Romans 9:4-5)So, to conclude this long post, the author was confusing THESE chosen earthly blessings with blessings of GRACE (salvation) blessings. I merely am pointing out the difference.

blessed76I don't understand something. My Bible tells me that Jesus died on the cross and has risen. Jewish people don't believe he has risen yet, that He could be born as any male child at any time.Yet Jesus says that the Jews are His chosen people. Are they going to Heaven even though they don't believe He is risen?
The Jews are not God's chosen people.Israel is,and Im not talking about the Jewish nation over in the middle east.And just too add,all those who don't believe upon Jesus,regardless of who they are will not have everlasting life,period!

(Red_Letters88;37876)
Wait,First of all, I did misunderstand Tim. Ive reread and have caught where I took his post incorrectly.second, I thought the main focus of this given topic was wether or not Jews who dont accept Christ as the messiah recieve salvation. and last Two- I never said there was not a chosen people, I never said Jesus and his disciples were not Jewish....so reread me too
Whats the purpose of this thread anyway? I thought denomination bashing had been outlawed here? Call it what you want but this is the very problem the US has now when it comes to Israel. "Blinders" you can quote all that fancy scripture you want but its not going to change the fact that G-d will never let the Jews perish. Oh sure they will suffer at the time of the tribulation a lot quicker than anyone on the US will. Someone tell me what religion Christianity was based on? Anyone know? Know where it came from?

This is a legemite question that few understand it is not about bashing anyone or shouldnt be if one understands what we are told you can not discuss scripture without talking Jews and Israel.Its just few understand who Israel is and no its not the church there is no such thing as replacement theroy

(kriss;38081)
This is a legemite question that few understand it is not about bashing anyone or shouldnt be if one understands what we are told you can not discuss scripture without talking Jews and Israel.Its just few understand who Israel is and no its not the church there is no such thing as replacement theroy
Don't agree.........

(Two;38084)
Don't agree.........
Sorry you disagree but it is what scripture says Eze. for one tells you Israel is all 12 tribes history tells you 10 of those 12 tribes are lost 2 are basically the Jews of today called by the larger tribes name in prophecy of Judah this is a deeper subject and has to do with the scepterof Joseph and the inheritance the 10 lost tribes are basically the Christian nations of today these are called the two sticks in Eze. God will rejoin these two sticks that is Jew and Christian under Christ at his returnIsrael is ALL 12 Tribes Rejoined it is not current day Israel or the churchit is a comination of both as the inheratance is currently split.

As usual, I concur with Kriss. There were the house of Israel and the house of Judah. And the house of Israel, namely Ephraim was prophesied to become many nations.Jews are recognized as God's people because they are known. The rest of the tribes are not known as God's people (c.f. Hosea 1:9-10) but had a different destiny and are known as "Gentiles". This is why I often use the term non-Israelite Gentiles vs. Israelite Gentiles. The latter have a genealogy to Jacob, and in fact have an inheritance in the land just like the Jew, but they don't know it. The former are true Gentiles unrelated to Israel and are graphed in if they have faith.

(kriss;38180)
Sorry you disagree but it is what scripture says Eze. for one tells you Israel is all 12 tribes history tells you 10 of those 12 tribes are lost 2 are basically the Jews of today called by the larger tribes name in prophecy of Judah this is a deeper subject and has to do with the scepterof Joseph and the inheritance the 10 lost tribes are basically the Christian nations of today these are called the two sticks in Eze. God will rejoin these two sticks that is Jew and Christian under Christ at his returnIsrael is ALL 12 Tribes Rejoined it is not current day Israel or the churchit is a comination of both as the inheratance is currently split.
I can buy that. Judaism is starting to look pretty good right now.....

Romans 1:16"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."The Gospel of YAHUSHUA (Hebrew for Jesus) is the power of God which brings salvation only to those who believe. Both the Jew and Greek (Gentile) must receive the Gospel if they are to be saved.Romans 11:13-14"13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them."Paul is a Jewish believer. He seeks to provoke to jealousy other Jews with the intent that they become saved like him. Paul wants the nonbelieving people of his flesh (Jews) to copy him.Romans 11:4-5"4But what saith the answer of God unto [Elijah]? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."Here we are informed that God always has a remnant that is faithful to Him. There has always been and will always be a believing remnant within Israel. We are also shown that this remnant is very, very small. Just look at Noah and the seven with him on the ark as another example of a small remnant. They are the faithful few.Let us look again at Elijah. Elijah and the seven thousand are God's faithful remnant. They never bowed the knee to baal. It says that all of Israel was gathered unto mount Carmel. This was the showdown between YAHUVEH'S Prophet and baal's prophets. We all know what happened. Nothing happened to the false prophets' sacrifice but fire came down and consumed Elijah's. "And when all the people saw [it], they fell on their faces: and they said, YAHUVEH, He [is] the God; YAHUVEH, he [is] the God" (1Kings 18:39). At once all of Israel declared that YAHUVEH is God. This is a picture of Israel right before the 2nd Coming. They see the miracles of God throughout the tribulation. Finally, at the time of Armageddon when they are surrounded, they put their faith in YAHUSHUA and cry out, Blessed is He who comes in the Name of YAHUVEH!" That is when Romans 11:26-27 takes place - "26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." This refers only to the group of people, known as Israel, alive at the 2nd Coming. Any Israelite, whether a Jew or not, who dies in unbelief is lost forever. There is no second chance. If one dies in unbelief, that's it and to hell that person will go; to the Jew first and also to the Greek. It's that simple. Romans 11:19-23"19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again."The unbelieving part of Israel was broken off precisely because they lacked faith in God. That faithless portion still exists today. However, some are slowly but surely coming to the saving knowledge of YAHUSHUA as their Messiah. A very small group is being grafted back in because "they abide not still in unbelief." Glory to FATHER YAHUVEH in YAHUSHUA'S Name!!!Romans 2:8-9"8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth (Gospel of YAHUSHUA the MESSIAH), but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"Romans 3:9"What then? are we better than [the Jews]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;"Galatians 3:22"But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of YAHUSHUA the Messiah might be given to them that believe."The Promise is Eternal Life. It is received by faith in YAHUSHUA. All peoples, nations, tribes, etc. are under sin. Therefore, the Promise can only be recieved by believing in the Messiah. The only other way to Heaven other than by faith, is by perfectly keeping the law. The only one who did that is YAHUSHUA our Lord and King.I hope this answers your concerns.May YAHUSHUA HA MASHIACH bring you more and more of the revelation of who HE is. :study:For more info check this site out: amightywind.com