Strong delusions

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Davy

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With very little exception, Christendom as a whole is under the [strong] delusion that "this generation" which Jesus identified as when "all these things will come"...is somehow...anyhow...not "this generation" as He said. Not seeing what they expected to see, they looked to the future for what came "in an hour they were not aware of", and so they taught the world to do the same.

The generation our Lord Jesus was pointing to in Matt.24 is about the generation that would 'see' all these things. These things He referred to are the signs He gave in that chapter. The final sign He gave there is the sign of His coming and gathering of the saints.

So did the generation of His Apostles see the sign of His coming and were they gathered to Him? No.

So what generation would it be that will see... His coming and His saints are gathered to Him? The final generation on this earth of course.

His second coming has still not happened yet today, even though there are deceived souls on false doctrines of men like Full Preterism that believe Jesus' second coming was back in His Apostle's days.
 

bbyrd009

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So what generation would it be that will see... His coming and His saints are gathered to Him? The final generation on this earth of course.
hmm, i'd keep an open mind there at least. I read plenty of generations after the saints are gathered myself
 

Davy

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hmm, i'd keep an open mind there at least. I read plenty of generations after the saints are gathered myself

Not for this present world you don't read that. Jesus comes "as a thief" (Rev.16:15) which is about the "day of the Lord" event, and man's works are burned off this earth on that "day of the Lord" per Peter in 2 Peter 3:10. That points to the end of the final generation of THIS present world. To bring in other later generations is to get away from the Biblical subject of the "last day" of this world.
 
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bbyrd009

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That points to the end of the final generation of THIS present world.
well, that is your opinion, i agree, and it is one doctrine among several, but then a lot of other Scripture must be reasoned away to get to that pov i think
To bring in other later generations is to get away from the Biblical subject of the "last day" of this world.
i note the convo has switched from "this earth," our domain, to "this world," passing away, so i guess the two should be delineated more clearly first. Kosmou is not Erets
 

ScottA

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The generation our Lord Jesus was pointing to in Matt.24 is about the generation that would 'see' all these things. These things He referred to are the signs He gave in that chapter. The final sign He gave there is the sign of His coming and gathering of the saints.

So did the generation of His Apostles see the sign of His coming and were they gathered to Him? No.

So what generation would it be that will see... His coming and His saints are gathered to Him? The final generation on this earth of course.

His second coming has still not happened yet today, even though there are deceived souls on false doctrines of men like Full Preterism that believe Jesus' second coming was back in His Apostle's days.
It is good to ask questions, but better if you don't also answer them.

Israel said much the same thing about the coming of Christ, and therefore did not receive Him. Christendom has done the same, only in spirit.

He did indeed refer "to the generation that would see all these things." But "seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand." Nonetheless, all of those things have come, and came "quickly", just as He said.

He was not referring to "The final generation on this earth" as you say, but the generation (i.e., "this generation") in which "It is finished."
 
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aspen

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With that said, I would like to ask what you believe the "strong delusion" will be. I have heard it said this "strong delusion" comes only during the seven year tribulation. Why only then? What is this truth that was not received? I'm not expecting for anyone to agree, but His word seems to suggest what the strong delusions God sends are.

The delusion of who is Jesus Christ? They loved not the truth and because of not loving the truth which is the Son...God said He would send them strong delusions. "I also will choose their delusions," God says in (Isaiah 66:4-7)

The Jews were blinded to the truth. Only those broken recognized Jesus as the Son of God. The greatest deception surrounding the most scandalous act of love is: who the Son was, and is. Matthew 16: 15-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

There seems to be this delusion, all centered around the greatest act of love in the history of mankind...whom do you say went to the cross for sin?

Consider what they called Him:


Matthew 27:63
[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.


They called Him a deceiver. A liar. A drunkard. We know it is not true because we see Him as the risen Christ; God in the flesh. But how many say otherwise?

And those followed Him were called no different: 2 Corinthians 6:7-8 [7] By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

No love of the truth=delusions to believe a lie, the lie that Christ was and is not God. No other deception counts as much as this one.

2 John 1:7-8
[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


"Believed not in the truth" of Christ.

John 8:44-45
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. [45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

The delusion is already here. People are already blind.

Romans 1:23-26
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. [24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Matthew 24:4-5
[4] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Ephesians 5:6
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

2 Timothy 3:13-14
[13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them ;

2 Chronicles 18:20-22
[20] Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord , and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? [21] And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him , and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. [22] Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

The delusion of: who is Christ?


I think the delusion is insidious; it rings true to us. It pushes to redefine love as self serving rather than communal....it focuses us on the moral failing of our neighbors rather than serving them.....it constantly works to erode unity - advocating for hatred and skepticism of church and replacing the experience of Godly men and women with our opinions, which we will always interpret as closer to God.

It seeks to empower us to fight against decoy delusions (political, media, controlling other’s sinful behavior through the law) and we will feel good about working against them in vain.

We will self righteously hoard our guns in the face of escalating gun violence; attempt to increase our comfort level by asserting our Christian identity/tribalism; and replace faith with skepticism, which will be applied towards all authority - church, academia, medicine, science and the rule of law. All of these distractions will be substituted for loving one another. Then, like a dieter substituting real food with aspartane, salt, and processed food, we will wonder why we remain spiritually overweight and bankrupt.

Radical individualism is the opposite of the gospel and sanctification for Hell - an eternal place/condition of radical individualism, self righteousness, righteous indignation, self murder, depostism of self, literalism and certainty of opinion unto death.

Attacking the body of Christian from the inside is the method of Satan to divide and destroy. So, why do we keep looking at the world?
 
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Davy

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It is good to ask questions, but better if you don't also answer them.

Israel said much the same thing about the coming of Christ, and therefore did not receive Him. Christendom has done the same, only in spirit.

He did indeed refer "to the generation that would see all these things." But "seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand." Nonetheless, all of those things have come, and came "quickly", just as He said.

He was not referring to "The final generation on this earth" as you say, but the generation (i.e., "this generation") in which "It is finished."

I strongly disagree with you. His disciples with Him on the Mount of Olives did not... see all those things.

Those signs Jesus gave there, are the signs of the Seals of Revelation 6.

Those signs are about the events at the very end of this world leading up to Christ's return and gathering of His Church.

Even today, that sign of not one stone standing on top of another in Jerusalem has yet to be fulfilled. The Wailing Wall stones were part of the 2nd temple complex, and they definitely... are still standing one on top of another in Jerusalem today.

The doctrines of men you heed have caused you to interpret what Jesus said according to their tradition of applying "all these things" to back in 70 A.D. when the Romans sacked Jerusalem, destroying the temple and city. But Jesus gave that idea in the context of His second coming; that is the subject context within those particular verses, and those surrounding it:

Matt 24:31-39
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV


The context there of "all these things" are all... of those signs He gave, from the start of the chapter down to the 31st verse.

That means that generation is to see "all these things", meaning all those signs He gave in Matt.24, including the not one stone on top of another which will occur at His 2nd coming when His feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14, and by that a great valley is formed there cleaved to the east and to the west.

The context of "it is near" is about His 2nd coming, not 70 A.D.
 
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brakelite

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I think the delusion is insidious. It is going to seem like truth. It will be a push to redefine love as self serving rather than communal....it will focus on the moral failing of our neighbors rather than serving them.....it will work to erode unity - including hatred and skepticism of church and the experience of Godly men and women in place of our own opinions, which we will always interpret as closer to God.
While I agree that a distorted love will permeate the mindset of the deluded, making toleration of evil acceptable, I don't see this as becoming an opposing concept of the church...I see the church in general embracing this for all its worth. The inevitable result will be persecution against those few individuals who take their assigned places as watchmen on the walls, and cry and sigh for the abominations that shall be done, not just in the land, but in the church itself.
The time is coming when the majority of church goers will join the nations who shall "hate you for My name's sake", because out of expediency (the mark on the hand) and delusion (mark on the forehead) the entire world will array themselves against those with the seal of God. One of the strongest delusions is the concept of Armageddon being a war against Israel. It's a war against the church...the few remnant who are faithful in the face of almost universal apostasy.12036379_10201067108477410_6863369122514363220_n.jpg
 
B

brakelite

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Even today, that sign of not one stone standing on top of another in Jerusalem has yet to be fulfilled. The Wailing Wall stones were part of the 2nd temple complex, and they definitely... are still standing one on top of another in Jerusalem today.
There is evidence that the so-called western wall of the temple was in fact a wall of the fortress built by the Romans, and was not a part of the temple complex at all. Jews only considered the wall sacred the last 350 years. And that decision came about under some very weird circumstances. Not because of any historical evidence.
 

aspen

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The time is coming when the majority of church goers will join the nations who shall "hate you for My name's sake", because out of expediency (the mark on the hand) and delusion (mark on the forehead) the entire world will array themselves against those with the seal of God. One of the strongest delusions is the concept of Armageddon being a war against Israel. It's a war against the church...the few remnant who are faithful in the face of almost universal apostasy.View attachment 1816

Perfect example of what I am talking about....

What better way to sow strife and sabotage unity than to use scripture itself to undermine peace. The devil is a crafty beast
 
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aspen

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Being offended is another delusion; mistaking bruised ego for ‘fighting for justice and defending the truth!’ In reality it is just another beautiful way to delude Christians.
 
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ScottA

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I strongly disagree with you. His disciples with Him on the Mount of Olives did not... see all those things.

Those signs Jesus gave there, are the signs of the Seals of Revelation 6.

Those signs are about the events at the very end of this world leading up to Christ's return and gathering of His Church.

Even today, that sign of not one stone standing on top of another in Jerusalem has yet to be fulfilled. The Wailing Wall stones were part of the 2nd temple complex, and they definitely... are still standing one on top of another in Jerusalem today.

The doctrines of men you heed have caused you to interpret what Jesus said according to their tradition of applying "all these things" to back in 70 A.D. when the Romans sacked Jerusalem, destroying the temple and city. But Jesus gave that idea in the context of His second coming; that is the subject context within those particular verses, and those surrounding it:

Matt 24:31-39
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV


The context there of "all these things" are all... of those signs He gave, from the start of the chapter down to the 31st verse.

That means that generation is to see "all these things", meaning all those signs He gave in Matt.24, including the not one stone on top of another which will occur at His 2nd coming when His feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14, and by that a great valley is formed there cleaved to the east and to the west.

The context of "it is near" is about His 2nd coming, not 70 A.D.
You are correct except for the timing...and that is you heeding the teachings of men not me. For "all these things" is not a reference to the things of this world and therefore not the proof that you have believed and now claim. But they are spiritual, referring to the kingdom, rather than to the world. Thus, "seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

We may as well argue which is true of God, that He is "the same yesterday, today, and forever" as pertains to the world, or without any regard to the times of this world, and therefore, "I am?" In which case, "I am" is more correct, and "the same yesterday, today, and forever" is just an explanation for those who are not ready to conceive "all truth" according to an eternal God. Therefore, He also said, "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."

But all of what you argue was said after He said this: "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" And so, you and indeed most of Christendom, misunderstood that He was not referring to what can be perceived when looking to the world...any more than what the world saw of Him crucified.

If you want to, and are ready, perhaps we can take them one by one.
 
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brakelite

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Perfect example of what I am talking about....

What better way to sow strife and sabotage unity than to use scripture itself to undermine peace. The devil is a crafty beast
Indeed...but there is nothing new under the sun. It was the method he used in Eden ("did God say...?") and likely the method he used in heaven.
That said, peace ought never be pursued at the cost of principle and truth.
 
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Taken

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In the beginning ~ the Lord God Almighty
Created the Heaven, the Earth, and all the inhabitants thereof.

Lord = The Word of God = Christ
God = The Father = Christ
Almighty = Power = Christ

In the beginning ~
The Lord God Almighty ~ taught men.

In the beginning ~
Some men accepted The Lord God Almighty
And became His People.

Repeat, for 4,000 years.

The Word of God arrives on earth in the likeness as a man ~ teaches, preaches, leaves the Earth.

"Some" men accept the Christ, and become His People.

Repeat, for 2,000 years.

Today, and Continuing, people are born.
"Some" men are accepting the Christ, and becoming His People.....some are not.

Signs, Signs, Signs; given to men since the beginning of mankind OF;

What WILL happen, What Was told and did come to pass, What more WILL happen and shall come to pass.

Men from the beginning, have Heard, have seen the Signs come to pass, have temporarily MINDFULLY Believed, then FELL AWAY....and a FEW have HEARTFULLY Believed and WERE SAVED and SEALED unto the Lord FOREVER and FOREVER become His People.

Through the generations of men ~
Nothing has CHANGED;

Men MINDFULLY outright REJECT God ~

Men MINFULLY believe and Fall Away ~

Men HEARTFULLY believe and BECOME SAVED unto the Lord FOREVER and FOREVER Become His People.

Men who COULD/CAN NOT read depend on another to read for them, and then TELL them what to believe.

Men who CAN READ, DO NOT, and depend on another to read for them, and then TELL them what to believe, and many thereafter pretend they are qualified to be teachers, when they are not.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Davy

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There is evidence that the so-called western wall of the temple was in fact a wall of the fortress built by the Romans, and was not a part of the temple complex at all. Jews only considered the wall sacred the last 350 years. And that decision came about under some very weird circumstances. Not because of any historical evidence.

There were additions done to the 2nd temple by Herod, so it was called by some Herod's temple, yet the Jews recognized it as God's temple, which is why they worshipped there, and is why they still worship at the Wailing Wall. Furthermore, the parameters of the prophecy Jesus gave is not one stone shall be standing on top of another. Hard to get around that, especially because of how huge those stones of the Wailing Wall are, still standing one on top of another.
 

Davy

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You are correct except for the timing...and that is you heeding the teachings of men not me. For "all these things" is not a reference to the things of this world and therefore not the proof that you have believed and now claim. But they are spiritual, referring to the kingdom, rather than to the world. Thus, "seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

Jesus' mention of seeing "all these things" is about the signs He was giving His Church while upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples. The signs He gave there are ALL... literal and will happen as written there. Some of those signs have already been going, like many coming saying they are Christ.

Trying to say those signs are some spiritualized idea is to loose the whole context of the Mattew 24 chapter. So no, I definitely would not... be interested in your spiritualized view of Matt.24. And I would suggest you take a more common sense approach to those signs of the end of this world our Lord Jesus was giving us there.
 

ScottA

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Jesus' mention of seeing "all these things" is about the signs He was giving His Church while upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples. The signs He gave there are ALL... literal and will happen as written there. Some of those signs have already been going, like many coming saying they are Christ.

Trying to say those signs are some spiritualized idea is to loose the whole context of the Mattew 24 chapter. So no, I definitely would not... be interested in your spiritualized view of Matt.24. And I would suggest you take a more common sense approach to those signs of the end of this world our Lord Jesus was giving us there.
Believe what you want, but your context is too small.

Jesus also said that "it is an evil generation that seeks a sign", and “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me." But if you do not take all of what He said to heart, you will look in the world for signs as the world does, and not where He is to be seen, for the world sees Him "no more." Which, according to you, is the only place you have been looking.

And, "God is spirit." So, if you have a problem with "spiritualizing"...that's really a problem. No wonder we don't see eye to eye.

Enjoy the world.
 

Davy

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Believe what you want, but your context is too small.

Jesus also said that "it is an evil generation that seeks a sign", and “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me." But if you do not take all of what He said to heart, you will look in the world for signs as the world does, and not where He is to be seen, for the world sees Him "no more." Which, according to you, is the only place you have been looking.

And, "God is spirit." So, if you have a problem with "spiritualizing"...that's really a problem. No wonder we don't see eye to eye.

Enjoy the world.

I don't have a personal context, I only follow the actual context that's written within those Scriptures. That you believe one can personally have their own... context suggests a problem in your approach to understanding The Bible.