The Inquisitions

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tabletalk

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From: Henry Charles Lea, The History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages.

Of all the curses which the Inquisition brought in its train this, perhaps, was the greatest---that, until the closing years of the eighteenth century, throughout the greater part of Europe, the inquisitorial process, as developed for the destruction of heresy, became the customary method of dealing with all who were under accusation; that the accused was treated as one having no rights, whose guilt was assumed in advance, and from whom confession was to be extorted by guile of force. Even witnesses were treated in the same fashion; and the prisoner who acknowledged guilt under torture was tortured again to obtain information about any other evil-doers of whom he perchance might have knowledge. So, also, the crime of "suspicion" was imported from the Inquisition into ordinary practice, and the accused who could not be convicted of the crime laid to his door could be punished for being suspected of t, not with the penalty legally provided for the offense, but with some other, at the fancy and discretion of the judge. It would be impossible to compute the amount of misery and wrong, inflicted on the defenseless up to the present century, which may be directly traced to the arbitrary and unrestricted methods introduced by the Inquisition and adopted by the jurists who fashioned the criminal jurisprudence of the Continent. It was a system which might well seem the invention of demons, and was fitly characterized by Sir John Fortescue as the Road to Hell. (emphasis mine)
 

Marymog

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see Mary, as our other friend cant comprehend, when we come to Christ we become citizens of heaven, and we obey the rules and statutes of heaven and Christ, when one gives them self to the catholic church, as you have, you must obey the rules, statutes, and doctrines of your religion, and being dived in which you will serve,

Mat_6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

you have chosen your church, "religion" over Christ and like your church are persecuting Him like a country at war, which you and you church has already lost.

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

you dont want to be there when it happens.
Whose rules and doctrines do you serve?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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That is a stupid statement! I am surprised you bothered to write it.
You make a blanket statement...there are indeed a few churches who hold that new liberal modern view...but by far it is not the "Protestant" belief.

That is like saying- " Everyone always eats pickles with cheese"...
Hi BG,

You may consider it a stupid statement however it is in fact a true statement.

The FACT is that Christians have gone from saying abortion is murder and gay marriage is not acceptable to abortion is not murder and come to our church if you are gay and want to get married.

You called it a "new liberal modern view" and that is basically what I said, only using different words than you. I agree with you. It is a 'new modern view' which means it has not been an acceptable Christian doctrine until recently which makes it "NEW" (since the dawn of Protestantism).

I agree with you. By far it is not the predominant "Protestant" belief. However, I will stick with the Catholic belief which is predominant and has taught for 2,000 years that abortion and gay marriage is not acceptable.

The Protestant belief allows one to go down the slippery slope of accepting those non scriptural beliefs BECAUSE the protestant belief has no Church authority on earth to go to that has the authority given to it in scripture to tell you that it is ok to treat those people as pagans or tax collectors. The Protestant teaching is that you can read scripture on your own and if you feel like the Holy Spirit guided you to the right interpretation then you are right. How sad.

This slow painful change has occurred over the last 500 years. I wonder what other words in scripture will be twisted for itching ears so that one can find teachers of scripture to suit their own passions? I wonder what new Protestant beliefs will bring us in the next 500 years? The last 500 have been pretty divisive for the Christian faith.

Who has the authority to call those protestants that teach/believe those things heretical, pagan or tax collectors?

Mary

PS...I promise I will never call your statements stupid. I plan to be more gracious. I am surprised you used the word stupid. That seems out of character for you. :(

stupid defined: having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense
 

Marymog

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Why do Roman Catholics get so sarcastic and angry when people disagree with them?
Your not disagreeing with THEM. Your disagreeing with The Church (presuming they are truly conveying The Churches teaching).

The Church talked about in scripture. The one that Jesus started. The one that is the pillar and foundation of Truth that has been given authority to treat people as pagans and tax collectors if they don't adhere to Church teaching. Not the thousands of different churches we have today with hundreds of different doctrines and beliefs (i.e. abortion is not murder, gay marriage is blessed by God etc. etc).

Mary
 

Marymog

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In answer to each paragraph in sequence....
1. No excuses, I did say they were wrong. I also gave you the reason they were wrong. They were still operating as Catholics, but with just a few changed doctrines. Their behaviour hadn't yet caught up with their beliefs. Just like a newly converted Christian whose way of life is not completely changed overnight but takes time to mature. But then you knew that right, but couldn't find a better answer so resorted to put-downs and straw-men. This I have found is a popular means by which to defend the indefensible.

2. My trust is in my God to tell me the truth, not in a group of sinners whose concern for my salvation is a distant last to their selfish concern for power and prestige.

3. That entire paragraph is a fine literary example of a month old beef stew that was left in the corner of the fridge uncovered.
Hi,

Hmmmm.....The Reformers couldn't figure out that torturing, killing and imprisoning people that disagreed with them was wrong but they knew that transubsantian and the saving effects of baptism was wrong? Fascinating. :rolleyes:

I wonder if todays protestants 'behaviors have finally caught up with their beliefs'? Since some of todays Protestants believe that abortion and gay marriage is acceptable to God. Maybe these new protestants have FINALLY got it right and the Reformers were wrong?

YOU trust in God but the men of the Catholic Church don't trust in God? That makes their doctrines wrong and your personal doctrines that you have created right? Hmmmm.......

I do love beef stew ;)
 

Triumph1300

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Luke 11:40: "You fools!" (Jesus to the Pharisees)
Romans 2:20: "…an instructor of the foolish…" (Paul referring to the students of Jewish scholars)
1 Corinthians 15:36: "You foolish person!" (Paul in a hypothetical argument)
2 Corinthians 12:11: "I have been a fool!…" (Paul ironically speaking of himself)
1 Peter 2:15: "…put to silence the ignorance of foolish people." (Peter referring to hypothetical unbelievers)
 

Marymog

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What a stupid statement.
Treat people as pagans and tax collectors if they don't follow the church you belong to.
Yes, that's great.
Hi,

If not my church then which Church has the authority to enforce Matthew 18:17?

Mary
 

Marymog

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Another dumb and stupid statement.
It is not a dumb and stupid statement.

It is, in FACT, a non biblical belief held by some protestant churches.

Are you not aware that the aforementioned beliefs are held by some christians?

Mary
 

Marymog

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No, I am talking about the freedom to worship according to my conscience, and how the Word of God directs. I am talking about the hatred of Catholicism that is directed against that freedom, as espoused here being declared as a gross error of faith and practice by Rome....."Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true." (No. 15) and that "It has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. The aforementioned quote is one of many in the "Syllabus of Errors" dcelared as infalible by a pope little more than 100 years ago, and which has not nor cannot be annulled. Think about it.
Have you read the document IN CONTEXT from which you quoted?

Curious Mary
 

H. Richard

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Hi,

If not my church then which Church has the authority to enforce Matthew 18:17?

Mary
***

None of them. Jesus didn't set up a religion that has set itself up as being between God and man. To hear the churches a person has to be in a religious church to be saved. Religions demand that a person do something in their religion to give them salvation. They do not see that Jesus has already done everything necessary for a person to be saved but of course that is the problem. Man does not believe it.

Jesus atoned (paid) for all the sins of the word, past, present and future. Everyone can be saved if they believe what Jesus did for them on the cross. That is the grace message Jesus gave to Paul. But man just will not believe it. Just like the Jews did not believe God when He said He would drive the people living in their promised land out with Hornets. They didn't believe God and God made he live it the wilderness for 40 years until those that did not believe Him were dead.

In this age of God's grace everyone will be judged by the grace message Jesus gave to Paul.
 
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Marymog

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I have been a Christian since oct 1980.
In all those years since 1980 I never met a Born Again Christian who said abortion and homosexuality are just fine.
I never met a billionare but that doesn't mean there aren't any! ;)

That answers my question: YOU ARE NOT AWARE!!!

Mary
 

Triumph1300

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People promoting abortions and the gay lifestyle are not Born Again Christians.

They might claim to be christians and you are dumb enough to believe they are, but they are not.

That's something you should be AWARE of.
 

mjrhealth

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Whose rules and doctrines do you serve?
Jesus and God and Heaven, why do you choose to serve man, demeaning remember those words well MM.

1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

your choosing...
 

Marymog

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Jesus and God and Heaven, why do you choose to serve man, demeaning remember those words well MM.

1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

your choosing...
Wow....I chose the same....Jesus and God. You tickle your own ears and The Church (which is the pillar and foundation of truth) tickles mine. Scripture doesn't say mjrhealth is the pillar and foundation of truth ;)

So now we are back a square one.

Are you twisting scripture or am I????

Mary
 

Marymog

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***

None of them. Jesus didn't set up a religion that has set itself up as being between God and man. To hear the churches a person has to be in a religious church to be saved. Religions demand that a person do something in their religion to give them salvation. They do not see that Jesus has already done everything necessary for a person to be saved but of course that is the problem. Man does not believe it.

Jesus atoned (paid) for all the sins of the word, past, present and future. Everyone can be saved if they believe what Jesus did for them on the cross. That is the grace message Jesus gave to Paul. But man just will not believe it. Just like the Jews did not believe God when He said He would drive the people living in their promised land out with Hornets. They didn't believe God and God made he live it the wilderness for 40 years until those that did not believe Him were dead.

In this age of God's grace everyone will be judged by the grace message Jesus gave to Paul.
Really?? None of them??

I guess scripture is wrong and you are right.......Hmmmmm......
 

Marymog

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People promoting abortions and the gay lifestyle are not Born Again Christians.

They might claim to be christians and you are dumb enough to believe they are, but they are not.

That's something you should be AWARE of.
Thank you for the name calling. Real Christian like of you. When did I say they are Christians???? Please quote me!!!

They say they are Christians. Who gave you the authority to say they are not Christians and their interpretation of scripture is wrong????

Curious Mary
 
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