Three Days and Three Nights

aspen · Mar 14, 2018

Ok, so I have no strong feelings about this topic. For me, Jesus’s death, resurrection and reign are ever-present.

BOL please tell me why it is important which day Jesus was crucified - besides ‘the catholic church teaches it so we must believe it’?

FHII - is this issue important to you? Why?

I appreciate your responses - i have never really noticed or at least paid attention to this topic.....is it merely an issue of authority (another reason to question the Catholic church) or does it have other ramifications?

FHII · Mar 14, 2018

rstrats said:
Can you say for sure that the spice shops couldn't have opened - at least for a short time - immediately after the weekly Sabbath ended?

That's actually a wonderful question, but it is merely speculation. It won't ever answer a question but it will lead to other questions and deeper understanding. In fact, I like the question more for an entirely different aspect of the equation. I hope to get to it soon.

Rstrats... Whose to say the spice shops closed at all? It was Judea and prominately Jewish. But it was still a Roman province. There were gentiles there too. Jewish law prevailed, but was was not the law of the Roman Empire... Just speculating...

I amIless concerned as to when the Jews would've had the opportunity to buy than when shops were opened.

After the weekly sabbath, I suspect they were open. And I suspect Jews were making purchases. But you are missing the point.

The weekly sabbath is Saturday. It ends at 6 pm. So ok. They bought them lets say at 6:05 PM.

But the Bible says they prepared them before the Sabbath. Lets say at 5:55 PM on Friday which would be before the Sabbath.

How is that possible?

rstrats · Mar 14, 2018

FHII,
re: " A wednesday burial is the only way everything works. Tell me how with a Friday burial the women bought spices AFTER the Sabbath and prepared them BEFORE the sabbath IF there wasn't 2 separate Sabbaths..."

Can you say for sure that the spice shops couldn't have opened - at least for a short time - immediately after the weekly Sabbath ended?

As for preparing spices before a Sabbath, they could have used ones that they already had. And though it isn't stated, nothing in the account precludes spices being purchased on the same day as the crucifixion.

FHII · Mar 14, 2018

rstrats said:
Can you say for sure that the spice shops couldn't have opened - at least for a short time - immediately after the weekly Sabbath ended?

Already anawered that question.

rstrats said:
As for preparing spices before a Sabbath, they could have used ones that they already had. And though it isn't stated, nothing in the account precludes spices being purchased

The Bible says they bought them. If they already had them... Why did they buy more?

No. Mark 16:1 says they bought the spices after the Sabbath for the specific purpose of annointing Jesus. Whatever spices they bought after the Sabbath were meant to annoint Jesus, and Luke says they were prepared before the Sabbath.

Helen · Mar 14, 2018

aspen said:
Ok, so I have no strong feelings about this topic. For me, Jesus’s death, resurrection and reign are ever-present.

BOL please tell me why it is important which day Jesus was crucified - besides ‘the catholic church teaches it so we must believe it’?

FHII - is this issue important to you? Why?

I appreciate your responses - i have never really noticed or at least paid attention to this topic.....is it merely an issue of authority (another reason to question the Catholic church) or does it have other ramifications?

Very god point.
I am 'reading along here'. As you say...why on earth does it matter.
We so often waste time on things that don't matter at all...and miss the more important things...

Pilgrimer · Mar 14, 2018

Davy said:
You're right, since the 6th day crucifixion idea is nonsense.

All the Gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on the preparation day, which is the day before the passover feast per Leviticus 23.

I’m afraid that is neither scripturally nor historically accurate. There was no “preparation day” for feasts. Exodus 12:16 clearly lays out that the first and seventh days of festivals were sabbaths when no work could be done except to prepare the feast to be eaten that day:

“On the first day you shall have a holy assembly, and another holy assembly on the seventh day; no work at all shall be done on them, except what must be eaten by every person, that alone may be prepared by you.”

So it’s simply not correct that preparations for a festival sabbath had to be made the day before, the Law allowed the food to be prepared on those days.

Davy said:

John 19 also shows they rushed to bury His body before sunset because at sunset Nisan 15th was to be a high day, meaning a High Sabbath, not the regular weekly sabbath.

Again, not accurate, here’s why. The weekly Sabbath law was inviolate. No work could be done at all on Saturday, not even the preparation for a feast. Therefore, when a feast day fell on a Saturday, all the preparations for the feast to be eaten on Saturday had to be prepared on Friday. Thus the weekly Sabbath, if it fell on a feast day, was a “High” day in that the Sabbath laws superseded the festival laws.

This is borne out by the fact that nowhere in Scripture is “the preparation” ever used of any day other than a Friday, which by the way was the name for Friday. All the days were named according to their position relative to the Sabbath. Sunday was the 1st day after the Sabbath, Monday the 2nd day, etc. However, Friday was not commonly called the 6th day, it was called “the Preparation” and Saturday was always called “the Sabbath.” That this was the common practice is borne out by it’s use in Josephus (Antiquities, Book 16, Chapter 6, Line 163) as well as numerous Talmudic passages.

Davy said:

3 days and 3 nights requirement not met, showing the Friday crucifixion tradition is in error.

That depends on what you interpret the three days and three nights to have included. If you assume it refers only to the length of time Jesus was in the tomb (from Friday evening to Sunday morning) then I agree, that is not 3 days and 3 nights. But I prefer to take the word of the two men on the road to Emmaus as to what events the 3 days and nights include: “And [Jesus] said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad? And one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.” Luke 24:17-21

According to these disciples, who were eye-witnesses of the risen Lord, that Easter Sunday was the third day since the chief priests and rulers had arrested and condemned Jesus on Thursday night, delivered him to the Romans on Friday morning at 6:00 A.M., he was crucified at 9:00 A.M., died at 3:00 P.M., and was buried before sunset on the Preparation (Friday). So Sunday was in fact the third day since “these things were done.” Not the third day since he was buried, but the third day since these events began with his arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane on Thursday night after having eaten the Passover.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

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Pilgrimer · Mar 14, 2018

Easter Week Chronology
Paschal Week Chronology

6 days before Passover
Friday – Nisan 8 – late afternoon - Jesus arrives in Bethany from Jericho
Friday – Nisan 9 – sunset – Sabbath supper at home of Simon

5 days before Passover
Saturday – Nisan 9 – Sabbath - Jesus rests in Bethany; multitudes come from all over to see Jesus and Lazarus; chief priests and Pharisees plot to arrest both Jesus and Lazarus

4 days before Passover
Sunday – Nisan 10 – Palm Sunday, Jesus enters Jerusalem; lambs selected for Passover; Jesus cleanses Temple for the 2nd time

3 days before Passover
Monday – Nisan 11 – Jesus teaches the multitudes

2 days before Passover
Tuesday – Nisan 12 – Jesus’ denunciation of Jerusalem; Mt. Olivet discourse

1 day before Passover
Wednesday – Nisan 13 - no record in Gospels how Jesus spent the day; possibly in Bethany and last night spent there
Wednesday – Nisan 14 – at sunset Jews begin to search their homes with candles for leaven

Passover
Thursday – Nisan 14 – morning – no leaven eaten after 10:00 a.m.
Thursday – Nisan 14 –noon– leaven ceremonially destroyed by burning or by dispersing to the winds
Thursday – Nisan 14 – afternoon – lambs sacrificed from 1:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m.; Seder prepared

1st Day of Unleavened Bread
Thursday – Nisan 15 – evening – Seder eaten (roasted Passover lamb and 1st Passover Chagigah eaten {breast and shoulder of voluntary thank-offering}); the Lord's Supper instituted
Thursday – Nisan 15 – night – Jesus arrested, brought before priests and elders
Friday – Nisan 15 – morning – Jesus brought before Pilate
Friday – Nisan 15 – 9:00 in the morning – Jesus crucified
Friday – Nisan 15 – 12:00 noon– darkness
Friday – Nisan 15 – 3:00 in the afternoon – Jesus dies
Friday – Nisan 15 – late afternoon – Jesus' body placed in tomb
Friday - Nisan 15 - before sunset women purchase and prepare spices for Jesus' burial (festival sabbaths allowed certain work necessary for preparation for the feasts, shops were allowed to be open to provide pilgrims with necessary items to keep the feast); High Sabbath preparations made

Sabbath (a "High Day")
Friday – Nisan 16 – sunset – High Sabbath begins (2nd feast at which mandatory 2nd Passover Chagigah is eaten which Pharisees would have been excluded from eating had they become defiled that morning)
Friday – Nisan 16 – night – women rest
Saturday – Nisan 16 – Sabbath – women rest
Saturday - Nisan 17 - night - Rabbinic Law requires that work not be resumed during night following Shabbat

1st Day of the Week
Sunday – Nisan 17 – morning early – women come to tomb, Jesus is risen

Primary Sources: The Gospels, Talmudic Tractate "Pesachim," Josephus "Antiquities."Secondary Sources: The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Alfred Edersheim; The Temple and It's Services, Alfred Edersheim; Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, Joachim Jeremias; Sketches of Jewish Social Life, Alfred Edersheim; Daily Life in Bible Times, Packer/Tenney/White; Manner and Customs of Bible Times, Ralph Gower and many more.

FHII · Mar 14, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Very god point.
I am 'reading along here'. As you say...why on earth does it matter.
We so often waste time on things that don't matter at all...and miss the more important things...

Do you really believe God is all about the bottom line more than the journey to get there?

The bottom line is that Jesus mafe the sacrifice. Yes... True. But what about the way it happened? There is truth and there is not the truth.

If none of this is important, then why not believe and seek the truth? If none of this is important, why believe he died on Friday when everything says otherwise?

How important is truth to a savior who said he was truth and said we MUST worship in truth?

I may be missing something here... But I don't ever recall God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or any prophet ever saying the truth wasn't important. So maybe you can give me a verse that states it isn't?

If its not so important, why do you just keep reading along? Why waste your time? Why not go to all those other inportant things?

What were they again?

PPerhaps I won't waste your time anymore.

BreadOfLife · Mar 14, 2018

FHII said:
You only partially quoted me. I was very clear when you read all my comment in context.

Again, we are discussing Esther 4:16 - 5:1. In those verses Esther asks for a fast of three days, both night and day. That fast was set and according to Jewish custom it was 72 hours according to the settings of the Sun.

Are you following me so far? Fasts are NOT made up of partial days. Furthermore 3 days and 3 nights is NOT an idiom. The link I provided contains an article which states that. Here is the link again:

http://m.tzion.org/site/articles/threedays.html

Verse 5:1 states that Esther went to see the king "on the third day". Two points: 1. The three days and 3 nights in 4:16 are about the fast; not when Esther went to see the king. 2. "On the third day" actually could be an idiom. The link I provided agrees with that. The link I provided says when such language is used (unlike saying 3 days and three nights) can be an idiom. It can be a partial day. Josephus used the phrase in his writing interchangably with the phrase "after three days".

Do yo follow me so far? So in 5:1 there is some slack concerning how much time passed. It could be 2 1/2 days or it could be 3 1/2 days according to how Jewish idioms are used. In fact, the way you want to use idioms, it could have been 24 hours and 2 minutes.

The bottom line is that Esther offers you no support in trying to prove a Friday crucifixion. It actually disproves it because a 3 day abd night fast is actually 72 hours.

WRONG.

The point STILL remains that Esther went to see the King BEFORE the fast was over - nullifying the need for three 24 hour periods. The link I provided states emphatically that in Jewish reckoning, a "day" can be a very SMALL PART of a 24 hour period.

BreadOfLife · Mar 14, 2018

FHII said:
Actually there is. I gave it a while back in my initial post. But I know you are busy. Perhaps you missed it.

Mark 16:1 KJV
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome,
Mark 16:1 KJV
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

It didn't say "brought". It said "bought". That is purchased. When did they purchase them? When the Sabbath was past. In other words, after the sabbath.

Mark 16:1 says the purchased the spices after the Sabbath. Luke 23:56 says they prepared them before the sabbath. You even agreed with that!

Now follow me closely... How can you prepare spices before you purchase them? How did they prepare the spices on Friday when they didn't even purchase them until Saturday after 6 PM? (According to your timeline)

Luke states that they prepared the spices after the crucifixion on Friday and rested on the Sabbath:

Luke 23:55-56
The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Can you follow that??

rstrats · Mar 15, 2018

FHII,
re: "Already anawered that question"

Yes you did. I don't know what happened to my mind, but it's kinda scary.

rstrats · Mar 15, 2018

Pilgrimer,

If you are correct with your idea of a 6th day of the week crucifixion, how do you account for the lack of a 3rd night?

Helen · Mar 15, 2018

FHII said:
Do you really believe God is all about the bottom line more than the journey to get there?

The bottom line is that Jesus made the sacrifice. Yes... True. But what about the way it happened? There is truth and there is not the truth.

If none of this is important, then why not believe and seek the truth? If none of this is important, why believe he died on Friday when everything says otherwise?

Perhaps I won't waste your time anymore.

I'm very sorry to have offended you.

It just seems to me when people argue about which day is what, and how many days or not..."To me" it then falls into what Paul wrote, when he said-

1Tim 1:4 "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. "

I read more quibbling going on about things which are not vital to faith, than I read those things which encourage and build up faith and commitment of our walk.
That is why I posted what I posted.

Again, sorry for offending you. I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

Davy · Mar 15, 2018

Ex 12:6
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
KJV

John 19:41-42
41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
KJV

John 19:30-31
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.

31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
KJV

The high sabbath of the passover ordinance was approaching at sunset. They rushed to bury Jesus' body before that sunset. The passover lamb was to be sacrificed at evening on 14th Nisan. At sunset would begin the 15th Nisan, a high sabbath (not the regular weekly sabbath).

Davy · Mar 15, 2018

The True 6 Days Before The Passover

6th Day Before Passover - 9th Nisan (Thursday sunset to Friday sunset):
Jesus passes our Thursday night at house of Zacchaeus (Luke 19:5).

5th Day Before Passover - 10th Nisan (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset):
Jesus passes the sabbath at Bethany; and after sunset (our Saturday), the first of 3 suppers was made.(John 12:2)

4th Day Before Passover - 11th Nisan (Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset):
2nd or triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He sends two disciples for a colt (Mark 11:1-11)

3rd Day Before Passover - 12th Nisan (Sunday sunset to Monday sunset):
In the morning Jesus returns to Jerusalem (Matt.21:18; Mark 11:12)

2nd Day Before Passover - 13th Nisan (Monday sunset to Tuesday sunset):
The first great prophecy in the temple (Luke 21:5-36)
The second great prophecy on Mount of Olives (Matt.24:1-51)
"After two days is the Passover" (Matt.26:1-5; Mark 14:1-2)

Day Before Passover - 14th Nisan, the Preparation Day, Day of The Crucifixion (Tuesday sunset to Wednesday sunset):
The preparation for the Last Supper (Matt.26:17-19)
"The even was come", plot for betrayal ready to be fulfilled (Matt.26:20; Mark 14:17)
The supper eaten, The New Covenant made, the OT lamb sacrifice abolished, Jesus' body replaces, bread and wine substituted (Matt.26:26-29)
About the 6th hour (Tuesday midnight) Pilate said, "Behold, your King" (John 19:14-15)
Jesus led away to be crucified (John 19:16-17)
"It was the third hour, and they crucified Him" (our 9 a.m. Wednesday) (Mark 15:25-26)
"The sixth hour" (Wednesday noon) the darkness (Matt.27:45-49)
"The ninth hour" (Wednesday 3 p.m.) Jesus gave up the ghost (Matt.27:50; Mark 15:34-37; Luke 23:46; John 19:28-30)
Buried in haste before sunset (Wednesday around 6 p.m.) before the "high day" (first day of feast, the 15th Nisan, our Thursday)- (John 19:38-42; Matt.27:57-66; Mark 15:42-47)

The passover lamb (Jesus as a replacement) was thus sacrificed at "even" (evening) on the preparation day Nisan 14, per the OT requirement of the passover. Our Lord's body was placed in the tomb just before sunset on that same day. And at sunset, which began Thursday Nisan 15, is when the 3 days and 3 nights requirement began.

pia · Mar 15, 2018

rstrats said:
Pilgrimer,

If you are correct with your idea of a 6th day of the week crucifixion, how do you account for the lack of a 3rd night?

It says 'He rose on the 3rd day'....That would have to exclude a third night..

pia · Mar 15, 2018

At the present we are entering the beginnings of our 3rd 'day' since His resurrection........2000 years have passed, so then, by now past midnight on the way to the dawn of the 3rd day.......'A thousand years can be as a day, and a day as a thousand years'.......He told me a few years ago..:" It is always darkest just before the dawn."......Seems to me we're well into this time frame...

FHII · Mar 15, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Luke states that they prepared the spices after the crucifixion on Friday and rested on the Sabbath:

Luke 23:55-56
The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Can you follow that??

Yes, I can. I am the one that brought the verse up. Of course I understand that.

My question is this: when did they buy the spices?

Can you please answer that question?

FHII · Mar 15, 2018

pia said:
It says 'He rose on the 3rd day'....That would have to exclude a third night..

But it says 3 days and three nights. In Jewish days the night comes before the day. And according to my sources 3 days and 3 nights means 72 hours. It is not an idiom.

pia · Mar 15, 2018

FHII said:
But it says 3 days and three nights. In Jewish days the night comes before the day. And according to my sources 3 days and 3 nights means 72 hours. It is not an idiom.

It may say that in one sentence , but everything else point to it having been, approx a half day, the day He died (when they had requested His body be taken down before the Sabbath day )...That following night, the following day ( the Sabbath day ) and then the following night, and then on the first day of the week ( which was Sunday then ) at dawn He was seen , alive....Anyway, whichever makes you happy....I am not about to try and make this into some kind of other law to follow...this is just the way my studies made sense to me

Three Days and Three Nights

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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