God is omnipotent.Why did he have to send his son (who somehow was himself) to the earth to be crucified?Who did he want to impress?Why couldn't he just have snapped his fingers or something?And are we supposed to feel guilty because God decided to kill his son (or himself) to impress us?Explain it to me please?
Cruci-fiction?
- Thread starter Grape
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(Grape;38100)
God is omnipotent.Why did he have to send his son (who somehow was himself) to the earth to be crucified?Who did he want to impress?Why couldn't he just have snapped his fingers or something?And are we supposed to feel guilty because God decided to kill his son (or himself) to impress us?Explain it to me please?
Why don't you find a bible and read it you might be surprised what you can learn.
God is omnipotent.Why did he have to send his son (who somehow was himself) to the earth to be crucified?Who did he want to impress?Why couldn't he just have snapped his fingers or something?And are we supposed to feel guilty because God decided to kill his son (or himself) to impress us?Explain it to me please?
Why don't you find a bible and read it you might be surprised what you can learn.
Heb.2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Satan has/had the power (legal right) to accuse all of sin.Ezek.18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. There is a much deeper explanation involving heirs and the kingdom, but I pray this will suffice.
I appreciate your work, but this doesn't explain why God didn't use his Omnipotency? (is it called that?)
(Grape;38123)
I appreciate your work, but this doesn't explain why God didn't use his Omnipotency? (is it called that?)
God is righteous and just, and goes to great lengths to be fair to all. God had to defeat Satan legally, to just snap his finger would not have been righteous or just. That is the kind of Father we love and serve.
I appreciate your work, but this doesn't explain why God didn't use his Omnipotency? (is it called that?)
God is righteous and just, and goes to great lengths to be fair to all. God had to defeat Satan legally, to just snap his finger would not have been righteous or just. That is the kind of Father we love and serve.
Righteous and just as when he murdered Jobs children?So God has to follow rules too? Isn't that a bit contradictory to omnipotence?
God never murdered Job's Children Satan did read Job 1Job1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.Job never charged God with their death because he knew God didnt do it.
I think that it makes it quite clear.God was tempted by Satan ("The Accuser" in the swedish translation) to test Jobs faith.In other words, God wanted to see how strong (blind?) Jobs faith was.Or how would you explain it?
Job 17 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. - - - 16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Job 17 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. - - - 16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Mighty Bear
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"Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."Hebrews 2:17-18 (ESV)"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin."Hebrews 4:15 (ESV)
Because just like a duckling only follows a mother-duck to the nest. Or a bear-cub needs his mother to show him the way back home and needs her for protection. Because it's another way that God reveals Himself to us, and do you really think that we could really relate to God on the same level as ourselves if He hadn't been human? He would always be an outsider, it would always be a "foreign" relationship- there would always be something just a little off and getting in the way of being really close. And what a better example of love can God give to us than to send His own Son, His perfect Son, and then let Him die for us. It is the greatest sacrifice because it needs to be.I remember this story about this farmer who asked the very same questions that you did. And for years he claimed that a loving God could never do such a thing and that the whole story was lame and unbelievable and unnecessary. But he wasn't a horrible man, this farmer, he just already had his mind made up about stuff.So one night there was a big storm. And this farmer saw this flock of geese flying around in the sky and he was very worried because they were afraid to land and he wanted to help them by putting them in his barn. He opened up the doors and everything to the barn but they just kept flying around and around above his pond and wouldn't land. And the farmer was fearing for their very lives. And he said to his wife, "If only I was a goose, I could save them. I could show them the way.'' And after that he realized the point of Christ was the very same thing! To save us, to show us the way. And this farmer changed his mind about the point of Christ.Hey Grape, let me tell you something really important: Jesus Christ did not come to the world to condemn, to make everyone feel guilty, but to SAVE it. And guilt is sin manifesting itself it our lives because we haven't let it go- we're still holding onto it and we don't have to. Jesus Christ takes all of our guilt away and lets us live lives that are FREE and wonderful in Him. How do I know this? Because I was a slave to guilt. You can ask my family, it affected me so much that my entire life was different, and I wasn't able to cope with it at all. I was depressed and full of anxiety and unable to cope and was having panic attacks. And I woke up every morning- every single morning and the first thing that came into my head was this guilt and I didn't really live during the rest of the day- there were moments where I would come out of my guilt, but I wasn't really out of it, it was still there, I just forgot it for a few seconds. But it always came back.But I didn't have to hold onto my guilt- but that also meant that I had to let go of the idea that I COULDN'T FIX MY GUILT MYSELF. Because I couldn't and neither can anyone else in the world try to get rid of their sin- try to make themselves back into what God wants, that is a sinless being, without the forgiveness of Jesus Christ... and I was trying to.Jesus' death shouldn't make you feel guilty- it's an opportunity for you to understand that He loves you, and He offers you free-of-charge to forgive your sins and follow in a life with Him, which is awesome because He has great plans for all of us- if we will humble ourselves and follow.As for being impressed, you should be impressed. I mean, what's more impressive? A piece of art? The Beatles? Because, we are talking about eternal life that Christ offers us- it's the greatest matter of importance in our lives and it is the ESSENCE of our lives- so for Him to take on our sins and do it for FREE, out of pure grace, that is the most impressive thing ever. I am so thankful that I don't have to DO anything really impressive, because whatever I did would always be open to criticism and it would never be good enough because I cannot create perfection. Not a person that has ever lived, is living, or will live would die for everyone in the world- they might do it for some, but not for everyone- but even if someone said they were willing to give up their life for the whole world- but they still weren't capable of saving their own self, they could die for EVERYBODY but didn't even have the power of saving themselves, what good what it do? Only Christ has that saving power! So this just shows that we are able to forgive only because we have first been forgiven ourselves. Only through Christ can we truly forgive and be forgiven.But for so many people? Why do they reject the idea of Jesus Christ? Why is it SO HARD for them to accept this very simple thing, that Christ died for their sins, and if they just accept His death they can be save. Because this means they truly have to ACCEPT it. And what that means is that they have to be truly honest and say- I cannot get rid of my sins on my own, so I can't be a "good person" without God, because without God I am still sinful, I need to listen to God rather than myself, because it is He who has saved me and payed such a great price. Hardly anybody wants to do this because hardly anybody wants to admit that they are NOT willing to give up control in every area of their life and they keep trying to "fix everything"on their own! (I used to do this, I kept telling myself that ONE DAY, things were going to get better... if I just finally was able to do everything right.) Because we live in a world that tells us we can do it all on our own- we're individuals, and that we don't need handouts, help, advice, support, love, or any ideas outside of the ones that we have decided in our heads are the right answer. And we don't like to think of ourselves as "weak" or "uncapable" and, for a lot of people, they CRINGE at the concept that they didn't come up with the plan. That it wasn't them who "thought up" the idea to save the whole world! People can be very full of themselves... but they blind themselves by doing so... which is too bad because Christ wants to loves us all! (It's like getting a Christmas gift, it goes from the hands of your mother or whoever into your hands, and you take it on as your own and you put the gift into use in your life. You WEAR the sweater. You READ the book. You don't stick it on a shelf. If you do, you know you're not using the gift. That doesn't change the fact that it's a gift, but you're not acting like the gift means anything. The same thing applies with Jesus Christ's gift.)Why do you think that Christ said that we must "lose the whole world to gain it"? He's not saying you have to live in a cardboard box- He's saying that you have to lose all the ideas and all of the loves that you are holding onto and putting before Him, you have to get rid of any attempt to try to save yourself on your own, and you have to accept His free gift. And then, Christ takes your "lost world" and He gives you back a "new world", better and brighter and more ABUNDANT than anything you could have done on your own! And this, this is what Christ means when He says to be born again, this world is free of guilt and sin and shame and is full of confidence, love, respect, POWER through God! Good questions!I hope what I wrote helps you understand better! We don't have to terrified of God. He wants to LOVE US ALL! All Praise be to God!
(Grape;38178)
Righteous and just as when he murdered Jobs children?So God has to follow rules too? Isn't that a bit contradictory to omnipotence?
I see, your true colors are exposed, sour grape.I see, murder is NOT to lie in wait.I see, carnally minded people cannot think spiritually.I see, Biblical illiteracy is rampant.I see, those with little understanding have opinions too.I see.
Righteous and just as when he murdered Jobs children?So God has to follow rules too? Isn't that a bit contradictory to omnipotence?
I see, your true colors are exposed, sour grape.I see, murder is NOT to lie in wait.I see, carnally minded people cannot think spiritually.I see, Biblical illiteracy is rampant.I see, those with little understanding have opinions too.I see.
(Wayne Murray;38199)
I see, your true colors are exposed, sour grape.I see, murder is NOT to lie in wait.I see, carnally minded people cannot think spiritually.I see, Biblical illiteracy is rampant.I see, those with little understanding have opinions too.I see.
Is that a poem or is it your opinions about me?
I see, your true colors are exposed, sour grape.I see, murder is NOT to lie in wait.I see, carnally minded people cannot think spiritually.I see, Biblical illiteracy is rampant.I see, those with little understanding have opinions too.I see.
Is that a poem or is it your opinions about me?
Give up people. Their are just going to keep looking for stupid loop holes that don't exist. Heck let them deny Christ, deny God heck for that matter let them deny the whole blame universe its their problem.
(Two;38234)
Give up people. Their are just going to keep looking for stupid loop holes that don't exist. Heck let them deny Christ, deny God heck for that matter let them deny the whole blame universe its their problem.
Lol, I will never give up. We're just planting seeds, that's all. WE CANNOT SAVE ANYONE ANYWAY. IT IS ONLY CHRIST WHO USES US TO REACH THEM. So I will spend my whole life telling others about Christ, praising His name until I die, and if I don't ever see one person convert before my eyes, I won't feel ashamed because I know that I am still telling them. And they have the choice to follow! And sometimes, it takes time for people to come to the Lord. So maybe one post now will stick with someone and ten years later God will use it to reveal Himself to them and they will become saved and follow Him. There was once a time when I looked for loopholes too... but ANYONE CAN TURN TO CHRIST!JUST PLANT SEEDS AND TRUST IN GOD TO DO THE REST! ALL PRAISE TO JESUS! WOOHOO!Besides, Jesus Himself said even denying Him could be forgiven! Matthew 12:30-32 New American Standard Bible. “He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."Please don't discourage your fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ! Encourage them to keep telling others about Christ's AMAZING LOVE AND SACRIFICE! Besides, Two, what if God said that to us? "Oh, to hell with them (literally) because they just won't listen." NOOOOOO, this is the last thing we would want from God, and it's the last thing we need to say to those we are trying to reach! Don't let yourself get discouraged, Brother!Oh, Grape, I am glad that the post helped you understand better. If you have anymore questions or want to talk, I am so happy to talk with you and tell you all about Jesus' amazing Love and Forgiveness!!! HE IS!!!HOORAY!
Give up people. Their are just going to keep looking for stupid loop holes that don't exist. Heck let them deny Christ, deny God heck for that matter let them deny the whole blame universe its their problem.
Lol, I will never give up. We're just planting seeds, that's all. WE CANNOT SAVE ANYONE ANYWAY. IT IS ONLY CHRIST WHO USES US TO REACH THEM. So I will spend my whole life telling others about Christ, praising His name until I die, and if I don't ever see one person convert before my eyes, I won't feel ashamed because I know that I am still telling them. And they have the choice to follow! And sometimes, it takes time for people to come to the Lord. So maybe one post now will stick with someone and ten years later God will use it to reveal Himself to them and they will become saved and follow Him. There was once a time when I looked for loopholes too... but ANYONE CAN TURN TO CHRIST!JUST PLANT SEEDS AND TRUST IN GOD TO DO THE REST! ALL PRAISE TO JESUS! WOOHOO!Besides, Jesus Himself said even denying Him could be forgiven! Matthew 12:30-32 New American Standard Bible. “He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."Please don't discourage your fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ! Encourage them to keep telling others about Christ's AMAZING LOVE AND SACRIFICE! Besides, Two, what if God said that to us? "Oh, to hell with them (literally) because they just won't listen." NOOOOOO, this is the last thing we would want from God, and it's the last thing we need to say to those we are trying to reach! Don't let yourself get discouraged, Brother!Oh, Grape, I am glad that the post helped you understand better. If you have anymore questions or want to talk, I am so happy to talk with you and tell you all about Jesus' amazing Love and Forgiveness!!! HE IS!!!HOORAY!
(stlizzy;38240)
Lol, I will never give up. We're just planting seeds, that's all. WE CANNOT SAVE ANYONE ANYWAY. IT IS ONLY CHRIST WHO USES US TO REACH THEM. So I will spend my whole life telling others about Christ, praising His name until I die, and if I don't ever see one person convert before my eyes, I won't feel ashamed because I know that I am still telling them. And they have the choice to follow! And sometimes, it takes time for people to come to the Lord. So maybe one post now will stick with someone and ten years later God will use it to reveal Himself to them and they will become saved and follow Him. There was once a time when I looked for loopholes too... but ANYONE CAN TURN TO CHRIST!JUST PLANT SEEDS AND TRUST IN GOD TO DO THE REST! ALL PRAISE TO JESUS! WOOHOO!Besides, Jesus Himself said even denying Him could be forgiven! Matthew 12:30-32 New American Standard Bible. “He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."Please don't discourage your fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ! Encourage them to keep telling others about Christ's AMAZING LOVE AND SACRIFICE! Besides, Two, what if God said that to us? "Oh, to hell with them (literally) because they just won't listen." NOOOOOO, this is the last thing we would want from God, and it's the last thing we need to say to those we are trying to reach! Don't let yourself get discouraged, Brother!Oh, Grape, I am glad that the post helped you understand better. If you have anymore questions or want to talk, I am so happy to talk with you and tell you all about Jesus' amazing Love and Forgiveness!!! HE IS!!!HOORAY!
I agree. But what happens when you talk to a wall? Nothing. You get no where.
Lol, I will never give up. We're just planting seeds, that's all. WE CANNOT SAVE ANYONE ANYWAY. IT IS ONLY CHRIST WHO USES US TO REACH THEM. So I will spend my whole life telling others about Christ, praising His name until I die, and if I don't ever see one person convert before my eyes, I won't feel ashamed because I know that I am still telling them. And they have the choice to follow! And sometimes, it takes time for people to come to the Lord. So maybe one post now will stick with someone and ten years later God will use it to reveal Himself to them and they will become saved and follow Him. There was once a time when I looked for loopholes too... but ANYONE CAN TURN TO CHRIST!JUST PLANT SEEDS AND TRUST IN GOD TO DO THE REST! ALL PRAISE TO JESUS! WOOHOO!Besides, Jesus Himself said even denying Him could be forgiven! Matthew 12:30-32 New American Standard Bible. “He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."Please don't discourage your fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ! Encourage them to keep telling others about Christ's AMAZING LOVE AND SACRIFICE! Besides, Two, what if God said that to us? "Oh, to hell with them (literally) because they just won't listen." NOOOOOO, this is the last thing we would want from God, and it's the last thing we need to say to those we are trying to reach! Don't let yourself get discouraged, Brother!Oh, Grape, I am glad that the post helped you understand better. If you have anymore questions or want to talk, I am so happy to talk with you and tell you all about Jesus' amazing Love and Forgiveness!!! HE IS!!!HOORAY!
I agree. But what happens when you talk to a wall? Nothing. You get no where.
People aren't walls! We all have souls, and ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT. People just act like walls, but don't look at them like walls- look at them with the love of Christ! Because, there are those out there who want to hear it and they need to hear it! And we don't know anyone's heart, only God does. But if someone doesn't want to listen, they don't have to, but we can still tell them the TRUTH. But we don't need to force them, we shouldn't try to either... we should let God do all of our worrying for us anyway. And, as I said before, you don't know if you are "getting no where" because it's not up to you to save them, just do your part and tell people. So, how do we know that we're really talking to a wall- that they're not listening? We don't! (Though it can really seem like some people aren't listening, because we know, as Christ has told us, that many WILL NOT listen and they will act like walls- but what about those who will hear and then TURN and believe. So don't you see, talking to a wall can be a great, great ministry, because maybe one day this "wall" will be able to share his testimony of how God saved him from being just another "wall" and can then tell another "wall" or maybe thousands of other walls that they don't have to be walls either, that there is so much more to life!!!)So don't give up hope! Just keep on keeping on and loving our Precious Lord Jesus! Look to Him for your strength and for approval! All Praise be to God!LOL... I have never used the term "wall" like that before. No offense meant to anyone!!! It's kind of a funny word to use over and over again like that.. Wall, wall, wall. LOL.
(stlizzy;38240)
tell you all about Jesus' amazing Love and Forgiveness!!! HE IS!!!HOORAY!
Kudos to you bro! I know that sooner or later, the Atheist/ Agnostic folks here will open up their eyes and heart for the Love of Jesus Christ. Keep it up... keep on inspiring others! You have the fire and determination to help people... don't lose it! If everyone's passion for the Lord is like stlizzy, the world will be a better place.Hooray!:blessyou::cross2:
tell you all about Jesus' amazing Love and Forgiveness!!! HE IS!!!HOORAY!
Kudos to you bro! I know that sooner or later, the Atheist/ Agnostic folks here will open up their eyes and heart for the Love of Jesus Christ. Keep it up... keep on inspiring others! You have the fire and determination to help people... don't lose it! If everyone's passion for the Lord is like stlizzy, the world will be a better place.Hooray!:blessyou::cross2:
(kernelspy;38262)
Kudos to you bro! I know that sooner or later, the Atheist/ Agnostic folks here will open up their eyes and heart for the Love of Jesus Christ. Keep it up... keep on inspiring others! You have the fire and determination to help people... don't lose it! If everyone's passion for the Lord is like stlizzy, the world will be a better place.Hooray!:blessyou::cross2:
Thanks! I appreciate that! BTW, I am a girl... well I am 23 so I am a "young adult"! lol... and are you originally from Singapore? Do you travel a lot in Malaysia?And I hope that everyone's passion for the Lord can keep getting better and brighter until people can't help but want to know the love of Christ too! Amen!
Kudos to you bro! I know that sooner or later, the Atheist/ Agnostic folks here will open up their eyes and heart for the Love of Jesus Christ. Keep it up... keep on inspiring others! You have the fire and determination to help people... don't lose it! If everyone's passion for the Lord is like stlizzy, the world will be a better place.Hooray!:blessyou::cross2:
Thanks! I appreciate that! BTW, I am a girl... well I am 23 so I am a "young adult"! lol... and are you originally from Singapore? Do you travel a lot in Malaysia?And I hope that everyone's passion for the Lord can keep getting better and brighter until people can't help but want to know the love of Christ too! Amen!
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