Cruci-fiction?

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Thunder1

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Dec 12, 2007
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Grape: God is omnipotent.Why did he have to send his son (who somehow was himself) to the earth to be crucified?Who did he want to impress?Why couldn't he just have snapped his fingers or something?And are we supposed to feel guilty because God decided to kill his son (or himself) to impress us?Thunder1: God does not need to impress anybody.He sent His Son for you, to die for your sins, because you need that to be saved from hell, you can't save yourself.That was God's plan not our plan.Jesus is gift for you ! I pray that you one day will understand that. You need divine revelation from God. It's foolisness to the world. But when God opens your eyes you just know. Are you hungry for God , are you desperate to know God ?
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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People aren't walls! We all have souls, and ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT. People just act like walls, but don't look at them like walls- look at them with the love of Christ! Because, there are those out there who want to hear it and they need to hear it! And we don't know anyone's heart, only God does. But if someone doesn't want to listen, they don't have to, but we can still tell them the TRUTH. But we don't need to force them, we shouldn't try to either... we should let God do all of our worrying for us anyway. And, as I said before, you don't know if you are "getting no where" because it's not up to you to save them, just do your part and tell people. So, how do we know that we're really talking to a wall- that they're not listening? We don't! (Though it can really seem like some people aren't listening, because we know, as Christ has told us, that many WILL NOT listen and they will act like walls- but what about those who will hear and then TURN and believe. So don't you see, talking to a wall can be a great, great ministry, because maybe one day this "wall" will be able to share his testimony of how God saved him from being just another "wall" and can then tell another "wall" or maybe thousands of other walls that they don't have to be walls either, that there is so much more to life!!!)So don't give up hope! Just keep on keeping on and loving our Precious Lord Jesus! Look to Him for your strength and for approval! All Praise be to God!LOL... I have never used the term "wall" like that before. No offense meant to anyone!!! It's kind of a funny word to use over and over again like that.. Wall, wall, wall. LOL.
What happen when a ball is thrown at a wall? It bounces right back to you. I don't think Wayne is calling people a wall, but rather what happen to people who won't listen to His word, it goes back to them and follow their carnally minded way. That's why we have a Sword to break that wall, lest the wall fell into the sand, instead of water.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

haanne

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Oct 29, 2007
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(Grape;38100)
God is omnipotent.Why did he have to send his son (who somehow was himself) to the earth to be crucified?Who did he want to impress?Why couldn't he just have snapped his fingers or something?And are we supposed to feel guilty because God decided to kill his son (or himself) to impress us?Explain it to me please?
Guilty ? I dont feel guilty. I feel greatful. Rather we understand it or not , God created this world and put people in it. He loves us , so much that he gave us the ability to choose rather or not we love him. Its about your freedom of choice. I like how you pick out Job . That is believed to be the oldest book in the Bible. God new that satan was going to come to him about Job. He new that Job would not fail him ,that his love for God was so pure that nothing could shake him. Did God not restore everything to Job 10 fold? Now lets look at the lesons that we get out of Job. I dont understand why you want to pick on God.What is it that makes people want to argue that God is not good. Just because you dont understand the way God runs things doesnt mean that hes an evil murderer.He created you and Gave you a choice . Is thier any commandment that is given in the Bible that will hurt you? How about"love the lord your God with all your heart your mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. Dont kill,murder or steal dont commit adulturey.do you think that God gave these commandments to spoil all your fun. Or is it possible that hes trying to keep you out of trouble and heart ache because he loves you. The bible is a love letter from God to us.Hes giving you advice on how to live a better life through him because he created you. People always want evidences that the Bible is real ,well try living the life and experience what God will do for you,what joy and what peace loving him and obeying his word brings. Dont knock it til ya try it.Please forgive me if I sound rude I dont mean to . Im just passionate about what I believe:)
 

haanne

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Oct 29, 2007
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p/s got off subject ,sorry. God sent Jesus because he needed a way to be able to commune with us. God is Light and in him there is no darkness at all. So he cant have anything to do with us if we are sinful. So knowing that he created us that way in order to save us he sent a sacrifice his son who was with him from the begining to reconcile us to him. You have to think that we were created in his image. However we are not just like him so there are things about God that have not been revealed. What we do know is that he loves us .We have free will and he does not cause bad things to happen . Satan is the prince of the air. God takes the bad stuff and makes Good things happen . If you ask for his help.The closer you are to God the more He works in your life and you are in control of how close you are to him.
 

His By Grace

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Dec 28, 2007
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Good posts,guys. I always think of the testimony of William Faye when we wonder if we are having any kind of impact on someone we are talking with. He said that when he was living in sin, on drugs, in total rebellion against God and rolling in the money, he never forgot any face or name of anyone that shared Jesus with him. I'm sure that he ran into people every day that made no impression on him whatsoever. But he was a man of means and reputation, so he met a lot of people. Yet, the people who affected him the most were the real Christians-those sharing their faith regardless of the ridicule he would give them. And it paid off!!! Praise be to God for all of the ones that allowed the Lord to use them. He was won to the Kingdom of God and is now a faithful witness for the Lord. He has even written a book about how to witness to the lost called "Share Jesus Without Fear". It does matter if we share our faith in love to others. We were commanded to do so. But it's so sad that some feel called to be silent, lying only to themselves. We should want to share the wonderful things Christ has done for us. We should reflect the One we spend time with.
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ForYou

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Jan 21, 2008
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Righteous and just as when he murdered Jobs children?So God has to follow rules too? Isn't that a bit contradictory to omnipotence?
God does NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW RULES,for he is almighty and powerful,yet he follows the rule for being fair.He did not murder Jobs children,Satan did,but even when he did Job kept going! Righteous is God for he has a reason for all,we may not know the reason..yet he knows,Throughout the bible God kills people,but for the better purpose!
 

Grape

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Feb 22, 2008
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Well, yes. It was Satan who did it. But in the end God was responsible for it.And following the rules for being fair? Are we really talking about the same God?
 

Jerusalem Junkie

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Jan 7, 2008
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Theres a price for living its called death....it happens everyday even back then.
Throughout the bible God kills people,but for the better purpose!
Hes got a point here.......
 

The Duke of Vandals

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Feb 27, 2008
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God is omnipotent.
Assuming he exists, sure.
Why did he have to send his son (who somehow was himself) to the earth to be crucified?
This is a little like asking "Well, why did Superman have to save Metropolis all those times?" You're looking into part of the fiction to explain the fiction. The questions you should be asking are, "Did it happen?" and "What was really going on in Judea circa 70 ce?"
Who did he want to impress?Why couldn't he just have snapped his fingers or something?
The short version is the Jews (who were the first Christian converts) were looking for a messiah because the Romans had really done terrible things to them (like taxing them for the fire in Rome and destroying the temple). Jewish mythology & history is full of saviors, heroes and sages who come in and save the day when things are going bad. Things were really bad in 70 ce so the Jews were looking for a hero. Into this comes a tall tale pulled together from pagan mythology, Jewish folkore, and actual mundane people (like Yeshua ben Pandira or Pantera) that feature THE Jewish hero of all Jewish heroes... a tale about a godman who's everything to everyone (King and pauper, fully god and fully human, etc) who dealt with persecution. That's how Christianity started. Basically, the early Christians did to Jews what the early Mormons did to Christians: made some stuff up, got a handful of people to believe it, had lots of babies and then did their damndest to institutionalize it.
And are we supposed to feel guilty because God decided to kill his son (or himself) to impress us?
Of course. Guilt (and guilt avoidance) is perhaps the most powerful motivating emotion. You are supposed to feel guilty for ignoring Christ's alleged sacrifice. Get someone to believe that a person or group of people died for something and you'll be amazed at how people fall all over themselves to believe whatever it is they believed.
Explain it to me please?
I just did.
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Thunder1

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Dec 12, 2007
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(The Duke of Vandals;39080)
Assuming he exists, sure. This is a little like asking "Well, why did Superman have to save Metropolis all those times?" You're looking into part of the fiction to explain the fiction. The questions you should be asking are, "Did it happen?" and "What was really going on in Judea circa 70 ce?" The short version is the Jews (who were the first Christian converts) were looking for a messiah because the Romans had really done terrible things to them (like taxing them for the fire in Rome and destroying the temple). Jewish mythology & history is full of saviors, heroes and sages who come in and save the day when things are going bad. Things were really bad in 70 ce so the Jews were looking for a hero. Into this comes a tall tale pulled together from pagan mythology, Jewish folkore, and actual mundane people (like Yeshua ben Pandira or Pantera) that feature THE Jewish hero of all Jewish heroes... a tale about a godman who's everything to everyone (King and pauper, fully god and fully human, etc) who dealt with persecution. That's how Christianity started. Basically, the early Christians did to Jews what the early Mormons did to Christians: made some stuff up, got a handful of people to believe it, had lots of babies and then did their damndest to institutionalize it. Of course. Guilt (and guilt avoidance) is perhaps the most powerful motivating emotion. You are supposed to feel guilty for ignoring Christ's alleged sacrifice. Get someone to believe that a person or group of people died for something and you'll be amazed at how people fall all over themselves to believe whatever it is they believed. I just did.
biggrin.gif

God Bless you ! May He open your eyes to see the truth!