Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

BreadOfLife said:

I'm not sure how this applies to what I said about faith and works.
Could you clarify? Thanks.

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I guess it doesn't apply. Nevermind.

tabletalk said:

You said: "...a non-osas believer recently, and he says faith and belief are not synonymous. I would disagree, just another lie from the pit of hell."

It seems there is a distinction made between faith and belief in the verse, below, from Galatians. Any thoughts on this?

From Galatians 3:22. "But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."

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Hi tabletalk. It's still synonymous (faith/noun, believe/verb). It's just how we use language. The end result is always the finished work of the cross.

2 Th 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief (noun) in the truth (noun).

2 John 1:2 because of the truth (noun), which lives in us and will be with us forever:

Taken said:

Actually, I believe OSAS, and also believe faith and belief are not synonymous.

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I believe they are because the finished work of the cross is always the end result.

bbyrd009 said:

yes, faith and belief share one synonym, but while you have found the one faith there, you maybe have not found the 5 ways "belief" is defined, that kind of present a more complete picture. Faith tends more to allow room for error or misunderstanding, whereas beliefs tend to be adhered to as if they represented absolute truth, at least usually.

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well, if the end result is the same (the finished work of the cross) then they are synonymous. are you putting your faith in garbage or teh cross . for a believer it's always the cross. that's why we repent, not because of our own works but of sanctification and what he did on the cross FOR US at calvary

BreadOfLife said:

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.
This is a verse about Salvation - not some reward that is separate from it.

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Then explain 1 Cor 9:24-25, what is the prize and crown? self righteousness?

BreadOfLife said:

Ummmmm, and where do either of these verses claim that they are SEVEN years apart??
These events occur simultaneously.

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1 Thess 1:10 and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead--Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

1 Thess 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

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Zep 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

Rev 6:16-17 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Rev 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”

BreadOfLife said:

When somebody gives you a gift - they don't force you to keep it.

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Well, that's where sanctification comes in. His sanctification and discipline comes from love not force.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.

Heb 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."

BreadOfLife said:

God doesn't force us to stay in our secure position. That's why Peter warns: 2 Peter 3:17 Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

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Right, it's encouragement for the believer to fight the good fight (spiritual warfare). It has nothing to do with losing salvation.

BreadOfLife said:

James reminds us that this is the case. Belief and works go hand-in-hand to produce saving faith (James 2:14-22)

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Belief and works go hand-in-hand to produce Godly righteousness, not saving faith BOL. Believers have already come to a saving faith at calvary. If you don't have the indwelling Holy Spirit then you are producing self righteousness.

James 2:21-25 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

BreadOfLife said:

This is why Jesus taught in the lesson of the Sheep and the Goats that the one who DOES His will is saved (Matt. 25:31-46). He ALSO taught that those who simply call on His name won't be saved - but ONLY the one who will be saved is the one who DOES the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21).

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BOL, the sheep are believers in Christ and the goats are nonbelievers.

John 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate,
and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

amadeus said:

I would certainly agree that probably most of the time you would be correct, but...but perhaps that person was already hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God and in those final moments left to him, God gave him exactly what he was seeking for so long.

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well, imo if the whole point of Christian Salvation is "Life, more abundantly," then deathbed profession rituals are just that, but then who are we kidding Christians are mostly kidding themselves anyway i guess. We're pretty much all playing "who can be the least pagan" imo. or the most, lol

aspen said:

You guys are assuming that salvation is a possession. What if it is a condition? Yes, God gives it to us, but He also gives us good health

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imo OSAS was invented so we could see who the poseurs are

Heb 13:8 said:

well, if the end result is the same (the finished work of the cross) then they are synonymous. are you putting your faith in garbage or teh cross . for a believer it's always the cross.

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until they find Nehushtan anyway, ya. you heard that sermon yet?

Heb 13:8 said:

that's why we repent, not because of our own works but of sanctification and what he did on the cross FOR US at calvary

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well no offense but i've been hearing that all my life from ppl who couldn't apologize for the smallest thing if their life depended on it. And i don't know why the two seem to go together, but i guess they do.

When you pick up that cross, your language just changes, along with some other stuff i guess. The fruit doesn't lie, right?
So we might be talking about the same thing, and we might not. As for any other "we's" i can't say; those we's seem to invalidate few there are who find it to me. Or even validate it vicariously maybe

Heb 13:8 said:

1 Thess 1:10 and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead--Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

1 Thess 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

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notice how this "wrath" you imagine is coming the same way the MSM basically tries to reinforce 24/7?
"Someone is coming to get you" type stuff? Tomorrow, iow?

The fact that you can be delivered from the coming wrath today is never discussed in this context, is it?
Not even by Christians, God help us, particularly not by Christians, right

which don't get me wrong, i'm in sales, and we rely on this formula in sales ok, your pov here is great for gun sales and the GDP in general, i hear bomb shelters are even making a comeback, etc

see how your pastor is likely playing you for a chump, see, without even realizing it
bc he reads the same way your desires cause you to read?
that violates other Scripture that you would rather talk about later, or never?

Sorry to change the subject here!!!!

But Groper is so close to my last name it is driving me crazy!!!! I thought I was going to send a privet message to
you but do not see any place to do it...... any way...... Groper !!!!

Grams said:

Sorry to change the subject here!!!!

But Groper is so close to my last name it is driving me crazy!!!! I thought I was going to send a privet message to
you but do not see any place to do it...... any way...... Groper !!!!

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boy, good point on the pm...ah, just click on my avatar there to the left, Calvin, and "start a convo"

Taken said:

Good golly man, the things you make up and say, are bizarre!
You should really stop sharing your own made up thoughts.
Yipes!!

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Not as long as people like YOU are spreading heretical doctrines . . .

Taken said:

LOL, Spiritually ignorant.
Let me give you the toddler version;
If you can ONLY receive salvation with your right hand, and you stick out your right hand to take the Salvation; and then your right hand is cut off...with what exactly are you going to give back the gift?

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If you cannot give a gift back - then it is NOT a gift.
It is a sentence . . .

Taken said:

LOL. Ya sure, no security in the Knowledge of the Word of God...<--- how ignorant.

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"Gnosis" is simply intellectual knowledge.
EPIGNOSIS is a full, experiential knowledge.

You really need to do your linguistic homework . . .

Taken said:

No, it does not mention salvation. As a matter of fact Salvation is not mentioned in the entire book of James.

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And YOU don't know your Bible very well . . .
James 1:21
Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can SAVE you.

James 2:14
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith SAVE them?

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to SAVE and to destroy.

James 5:14-15
Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will SAVE the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up.

James 5:20
Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will SAVE them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Do yourself a favor and crack open a Bible BEFORE you respond.
This is getting embarrassing . . .

Taken said:

Opposed to what, fake faith, of your fake invented

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Taken said:

cosmic rapist god?
Yipes Catholic teaching is weird; having a cosmic rapist god...utterly bizarre!

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I didn't invent him - YOU did.
And anybody who believes in the anti-Biblical farce that is OSAS shares in your delusion . . .

Taken said:

LOL, your teaching gets funnier and funnier!
No, the thief was no exception.
He called on the Lord!

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And, as I've shown you several times now, Einstein - "Calling" on the Lord isn't good enough unless you endure to the end in God's service . . .
Matt. 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The thief DID endure to the "end", which was just a couple of hours later.

Taken said:

You make up false claims, say they are what someone else said, when they didn't....
Because you don't agree with someone else's belief.
Chump!

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Soooo, you AREN'T supporting OSAS?

If you are - then I haven't made any "false" claims.
You're just lying about what YOU said . . .

BreadOfLife said:

The thief DID endure to the "end", which was just a couple of hours later.

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fwiw i'd read everything relevant about them guys before i went holding them up as an example,
"In the same way even the criminals who were crucified with Him kept taunting Him." etc
prolly pointless to say right now that these are not even really people, but representatives, that can be labelled by their declarations, but regardless even if they are perceived as ppl we glom onto "today you will be with Me in Paradise" as like some kind of divider between the two thieves, like they will end up in two different places or something? When Christ did not say this, did He.

It is written so that one can assume what they like, see, and so that the symbology of "two thieves, crucified with Christ" can hide in plain sight

bbyrd009 said:

fwiw i'd read everything relevant about them guys before i went holding them up as an example,
"In the same way even the criminals who were crucified with Him kept taunting Him." etc
prolly pointless to say right now that these are not even really people, but representatives, that can be labelled by their declarations, but regardless even if they are perceived as ppl we glom onto "today you will be with Me in Paradise" as like some kind of divider between the two thieves, like they will end up in two different places or something? When Christ did not say this, did He.

It is written so that one can assume what they like, see, and so that the symbology of "two thieves, crucified with Christ" can hide in plain sight

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WRONG.

They are real people because they spoke to Jesus - and HE spoke to them.
Jesus isn't delusional.