Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?
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Already addressed.
Are you steeped in Calvinism that you are attempting to teach me their beliefs?
And why would you think that what you are teaching about Calvinism is of an interest to me?
Did I mention Calvinism, or the law being nailed to the cross? NO, that was you.
So why tell me your thoughts on Calvinism, and pretend they are what I think?
.
Well actually, for me personally, no one has anything that I want, so stealing is not thoughts I have.
As far as "impunity". Yes and No.
A man who is saved and born again IS REDEEMED from the curse of the Law.
The curse of the Law, IS; first something is defined as a SIN; and then there is a CURSE LAW, of a consequence for the SIN.
And YES a man who is saved and born again,
Is NOT subject to the consequence of the CURSE LAW. A man can NOT be punished under the CURSE LAW, Because the man CAN NO LONGER SIN.
But you FIRST you would do well to UNDERSTAND a man BEING washed of ALL Unrighteousness; and Born of God, CAN NOT SIN.
And then you would have to KNOW WHAT SIN MEANS.
As far as NO, men are not relieved of the consequence of wrong doing.
There are civil governances regarding theft, and the PENAL Laws for committing theft.
And woe be unto the man who sneaks ABOUT thriving and has to PAY his own Penalty for his theft: losing financially, losing personal freedom; losing honor; losing respect; and possible losing people he loves.
And blessings to the man who has become saved and born again and continues learning Spiritually from Christ Jesus, through His Knowledge and Wisdom and Understanding and Power: that;
Nothing IN THIS WORLD, has so great A value to shame oneself with deceit.
I am well aware of the role of "A" priest.
And the role of "A" priest is not how a man becomes sanctified.
It is by the POWER of God, a man becomes sanctified.
How about you not ignore the Word of God;
A converted man IS bodily sanctified, and JUSTIFIED to become glorified.
And entailed in a mans CONVERSION, IS the saving of His soul and quickening (birthing) of his spirit, being born of God; which IF you believe Scripture; Whoseoever is born of God, CAN NOT SIN.
You making WORKS a condition of becoming sanctified; is irrelevant.
Works of a saved and born again man either reap rewards or forgo rewards.
Works do not provide for the man to receive;
Forgiveness, sanctification, salvation, or quickening of his spirit.
I am not in the OT, a man of the OT, under the Law of the OT to perform traditions to receive a yearly forgiveness with an animals blood. That was the beginning of teaching.
It's been thousands of years. Men have learned more knowledge, and more understanding; Get with the more knowledge of a PERMANENT sanctification, salvation, quickened spirit BY the offering of Jesus' PURE BLOOD and His redemption from the SIN curse.
No Jesus is not "ministering now" on my behalf before the throne of God!
You think Jesus bodily PREACHING IN HEAVEN would be to MY BENEFIT, while I am on earth?
Silly!
Jesus' is Spiritually WITHIN ME, while I am still bodily on earth!
Don't know about you; but, My Lord's Spirit dwells within me....and His Spirit does NOT dwell in Sin.
Nonsense. He doesn't REPEAT His sacrifice over and over. He gave His body ONCE. He gave His BLOOD ONCE. You want the blessing and benefit and grace of HIS offering? Then Take it! I did. It's done.
I don't keep repeating asking Him to give me what He has already accomplished in me.
It's finished!
The washing and sanctification of my body is finished.
The restoration and saving of my soul is finished.
The quickening of my spiritual birth from His Seed is finished.
The Word of God continues endlessly in me.
His teaching me continues endlessly in me.
His giving me His Wisdom, His Understanding, His Strength, continues endlessly for me.
Your speculation regarding OT men is irrelevant and has zero application to me.
1 John 3:9
Whoseoever is born of God...CAN NOT SIN.
( I am born of God...and CAN SIN NOT SIN)
Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law.
( Christ has REDEEMED ME from the SIN of the Law ).
God Bless,
Taken
Hebrews 8:5
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
The OT services were a shadow of heavenly things. Spiritual reality. Just as the Priest had to enter the temple to continue his ministration, so too did Jesus have to enter the heavenly sanctuary to continue His ministration. In your presentations which speak of the cross as being all that is necessary, you are teaching only half the gospel.
Hebrews 8:1-2
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Without that Mediator in heaven, you will be lost. You are as much dependant upon His present ministry for your salvation as you are in His death on the cross.
Scripture claims; I agree.
1 John 3:9
WHOSOEVER is born of God...can not sin.
I am already born again.
Do you disagree with Scripture?
False, But you can refute by quoting me saying that.
I vehemently disagree;
But ...How do YOU figure that?
How do YOU figure a man with the Spirit of God in him STILL requires a mediator?
I know the day, I no longer needed a MEDIATOR to speak TO THE FATHER on my behalf, and Could Speak Directly to the Father myself.
John 16:23
And in THAT DAY ye shall ask ME (the MEDIATOR) NOTHING.
Verily, verily, I SAY unto you,
Whatsoever YE SHALL ASK THE FATHER in my name, he will give to you.
No.
My salvation is aleady effected.
I speak for myself. I am NOT IN Heaven.
Jesus does not minister TO ME IN Heaven.
Jesus' Spirit is within me, and ministers TO ME within me to my spirit.
It was with YOUR OWN words you made charges against me.
With YOUR OWN words prove your charges.
Tell me WHY it is arrogant to claim I can not sin. (When it is Scripture that makes the claim, and I agree).
Tell me HOW I would hear Jesus ministering in Heaven, when I am ON EARTH. (When Scripture says He is within me, ON EARTH).
Tell me WHY I require a MEDIATOR (When I have already gone THROUGH the Mediator and Now have Direct access to God).
Tell me How His present ministry is "required for" my salvation. (When I have already received His gift of Salvation).
God Bless,
Taken
All you do is repeat your error. Yet you cannot support your view from the Scripture. Scripture is against you.
You don't reply to my posts because you have nothing to offer. You offer only your twisted manipulation of the Scripture, which Scripture finds you guilty.
Your gift of manipulation and twisting of Scripture does not come from the Author of Scripture.
Stranger
Oops, you forgot to quote the error you charge.
Oops, you forgot to quote the unsupported view you charge.
Oops, you forgot to quote the scripture you charge is against me.
Oops, Blatenly false claim.
Oops, you forgot to post Scripture and my quote supposedly twisting the same Scripture.
Oops, you forgot to post the evidence of such degree.
Correct. Such is a gift, of unfounded accusations IS from you.
Now that you have made all your charges;
Prove your charges with evidence!
Just go back to post #241 on page 13 this thread. All your questions and requests will be answered as you re-read. All evidence will be presented. Which is why you finally didn't answer my last three posts. I sense you will do so now to prove me wrong. Good luck.
I have proved your manipulation and twisting of Scripture. And, you don't stop with that. You manipulate and twist whatever you can to somehow make your gain.
Stranger
Any who go back with post #241 and reread will see differently.
Hows that roller coaster ride going?
Stranger
verzanumi24
Advanced Member
Have you read this?
Revelation 21:1-3 (ASV)
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more.
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God:
Notice two things in the above verse. In verse 2 it say, I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God.. God will bring the Citiy, called the New Jerusalem from Heaven to the Earth. And in verse 3 it say, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them. It dosn't say the tabernacle of man is with God, and we will dwel with Him. So it's not man is is going to go to Heaven, it is God who is coming to dwell with man on the Earth.
In addition to the above have you ever read this?
Matthew 5:5 (ASV)
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Jesus in His own words, tells us that it's the Earth the meek/saints will live.
Yes I have, is it speaking of those who are still in this earth or those who are taken up to or already in Heaven, but since this has not being revealed to me, I just know ill be where HE wants me to be.
1Th_4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
God bless
verzanumi24
Advanced Member
Not one of those two verses made any promised that God's people are going to Heaven. Just because Jesus said He would like His people to be where He will be going, so that they would see His glory. It was His glory He would like them to see more than a promised that He has made that they are going to go to Heaven. The other verse you quoted is refering to Jesus. But the thing is, Jesus is coming back to stay on the Earth.
verzanumi24
Advanced Member
Up in the cloud is just a meeting place. They will come back down to the Earth.
God's true people know that they will live on the Earth.
Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV)
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The angels that spoke to Jesus' disciples told them that Jesus will return in the same way He left.
Acts 1:11 (KJV)
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
It means, that Jesus will touch down on Mount Olive because that was where He was when He left.
In the Old Testament Zechariah propheced that Jesus would come and stand on Mount Olive, and it will divide in two. That's the very same mountain that Jesus was on when He left for Heaven.
Zechariah 14:3-4 (KJV)
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
I don't understand the love affair many Christians have for heaven. Its as if they believe their salvation in Jesus depends on it yet Moses and Elijah was revealed to be already there long before Jesus met his fate on the cross. Our focus should be on Jesus Christ, not what our final destination ends up being, because the two have absolutely zero to do with each other when it comes down to it. Scripture plainly states that the new earth is our final destination, but many Christians are dead set on it being heaven. They mix God and heaven as if they are synonymous without any justification given in scripture. Heaven is heaven, hell is hell, sin is sin, Satan is Satan, earth is earth, and God is God as far as scripture is concerned. I guess they believe the new earth is created just for the animals or something, which sounds like a huge waste of time. I think you are the only other person besides me with this viewpoint on our final destination.
verzanumi24
Advanced Member
They think Heaven is like the Earth minus sin. But the truth is, Heaven is an expanse. There is no ground in Heaven to walk on like here on the Earth. Heaven is more like what we call outerspace. Not that I'm saying that Heaven has plants and stars.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
No they dont, and what do you expect to be here, electricity, computers, youtube, cinemas, nah be just lie kit was in teh beginning as it was meant to be. ANd I dont know because I have not being told, seems to God it isnt that important not as much as Faith in Him.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
I can't speak to heaven not having a ground of some type. Revelation in particular seems to at least imply otherwise as there is a "sea of glass" in the midst of Gods throne with the saints standing on it. You also have Jesus stating that the Father has a house with many mansions, so I wouldn't rule out heaven having some type of ground to stand on. Beyond this though, I don't understand how they equate heaven itself as a place of peace and tranquility, and without sin, yet the first sinner to ever exist was Satan, Gods "anointed Cherub". You also have war breaking out in heaven as well in Revelation, so heaven is certainly not what most Christians assume it is.
(John 17:24) "...be with me where I am...."
(John 14:2-3) "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for, you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
Jesus Christ prepares a place for His people where He went to when He left the earth. Our place is in Heaven. We can come back to and from to the earth anytime with Christ. But our place is in Heaven.
Stranger
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