bread and wine or "eucharist"

FHII · Mar 22, 2018

DPMartin said:
thank ya, thank ya very much.

I caught yyu in a lie, DP. And you can't even live up to it.

Shame.

BreadOfLife · Mar 22, 2018

DPMartin said:
if your interpretation is so, when He gave the Apostles when He said this, was He present in His flesh or was He present in the bread and wine when He handed it to the Apostles? are you saying He was in both places? it has to be what you are saying you know.

What is so difficult to understand??
You can believe that God spoke and the universe leapt into existence - but you CAN'T believe that He can be in 2 places at one time??

What an appalling lack of faith . . .

DPMartin said:
ok now, is it a representation as you say "re-presented " or the actual presence of God? which is it?

His Sacrifice is ETERNAL (Rev. 13:8). That sacrifice is RE-presented at each mass.
Not that difficult to grasp, son . . .

DPMartin said:
iso where does it say Melcheizedek offered? in Genesis it says "brought forth bread and wine" no offerings there by Melcheizedek. so its not true that Melcheizedek offered.

what is throwing you is the church claims the "holy sacrifice of the Mass" and that the Presence of the Lord is in that sacrifice. hence either they are re-sacrificing Christ on the altar , or the Presence of the Lord Jesus isn't in the physical bread and wine as the church claims it to be. because they would be sore in error if they be re-sacrificing the Lord unto the Lord. there is only one sacrifice according to Paul and the rest of the NT. so just what is being sacrificed on the altar in catholic churches?

Semantics.

When I have a guest in my house - I OFFER them food and drink.
Melcheizedek did the same with Abraham.

As for WHAT is sacrifices - it is Jesus.
His Sacrifice is ETERNAL (Rev. 13:8) and He forever stands before the Father to intercede for us (Heb. 7:25).

You should really study up on your Scripture . . .

FHII · Mar 22, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
What

BOL... I'd like your input on the following statement, as the resident argimentative Catholic:

DPMartin said:
Here is the highlight of the reason the reasoning of the institution of the most “holy Sacrifice of the Mass”, as mentioned in documents such as the Console of Trent session 22 is in error.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Is there any validity to this? Do Catholics recognize Heb 10:26 as reason for the practice?

BreadOfLife · Mar 22, 2018

FHII said:
BOL... I'd like your input on the following statement, as the resident argimentative Catholic:

Is there any validity to this? Do Catholics recognize Heb 10:26 as reason for the practice?

For the practice of what, exactly?

FHII · Mar 22, 2018

DP noted it in his OP as the hightlifht of the reason of the reasoning of the institution of the most holy sacrifice.

I'm just wondering if Catholics see any connection between the eurichrist and Heb 10:26.

DPMartin · Mar 22, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
What is so difficult to understand??
You can believe that God spoke and the universe leapt into existence - but you CAN'T believe that He can be in 2 places at one time??

What an appalling lack of faith . . .

trust in what you say it means or the catholic church for that matter has nothing to do with faith in the Lord Jesus. Just because by Him where all things made, doesn't mean He expected use to understand that His Presence was in the bread and wine because that's what you believe.

His Sacrifice is ETERNAL (Rev. 13:8). That sacrifice is RE-presented at each mass.
Not that difficult to grasp, son . . .

Semantics.

nope there's no semantics issue, in "holy sacrifice of the Mass" note "of the" in there. we can see plainly what is meant here.

also I don't see a description of eternal here:

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Jesus being the Word of God is the foundation of the world, where do you get eternal sacrifice here?

When I have a guest in my house - I OFFER them food and drink.
Melcheizedek did the same with Abraham.

nope, brought forth is the term use, and it was Melcheizedek who came to Abraham. so you're dead wrong there.

Truth · Mar 22, 2018

DPMartin said:
thank ya, thank ya very much.

Co,Mon Elvis!!!!!

DPMartin · Mar 22, 2018

FHII said:
I caught yyu in a lie, DP. And you can't even live up to it.

Shame.

really where's that

here's the statement

to take part in the communion is to partake of the Life and Body of Christ as a recipient there of. to do this, as Paul says "unworthy" (note here when in quotes it means quoting Paul that was a typo) (note the following is not in quotes and includes the word or meaning something other than the previous in this case isn't a quote of Paul) or under false pretenses , not good.

are you brain dead or something?

DPMartin · Mar 22, 2018

Truth said:
Co,Mon Elvis!!!!!

What?

Truth · Mar 22, 2018

FHII said:
DP noted it in his OP as the hightlifht of the reason of the reasoning of the institution of the most holy sacrifice.

I'm just wondering if Catholics see any connection between the eurichrist and Heb 10:26.

One Must adhere to the red letter comments, for His Words were spoken in the Utmost Authority, When a King speaks the Nation should Listen, or suffer the consequences, there have been many Ruler's that passed Edicts, that if you did not adhere to! you were Beheaded, our Savior will Pass Only Righteous judgement, Listen to Him, not religious leader's. you know the old saying STOP LOOK AND LISTEN, rail road safety, or be derailed! See I don't care what Paul said, and Paul was a Great teacher, I care what Jesus said First! We all need to return to the red letter's then filter what was said by the other Apostles.

tabletalk · Mar 23, 2018

Truth said:
One Must adhere to the red letter comments, for His Words were spoken in the Utmost Authority, When a King speaks the Nation should Listen, or suffer the consequences, there have been many Ruler's that passed Edicts, that if you did not adhere to! you were Beheaded, our Savior will Pass Only Righteous judgement, Listen to Him, not religious leader's. you know the old saying STOP LOOK AND LISTEN, rail road safety, or be derailed! See I don't care what Paul said, and Paul was a Great teacher, I care what Jesus said First! We all need to return to the red letter's then filter what was said by the other Apostles.

So, you '..don't care what Paul said,' but your quote from the Word of God at the bottom of your replies is from a letter that Paul wrote (2Thessalonians). Jesus is the Word, Paul preached the Word.
The entire Bible is 'red-letter'.

FHII · Mar 23, 2018

DPMartin said:
here's the statement

to take part in the communion is to partake of the Life and Body of Christ as a recipient there of. to do this, as Paul says "unworthy" (note here when in quotes it means quoting Paul that was a typo) (note the following is not in quotes and includes the word or meaning something other than the previous in this case isn't a quote of Paul) or under false pretenses , not good.

Now what abou

DPMartin said:
. hence one would be a liar if they participated in an unworthy status, such as not being born of the Holy Spirit, hence under false pretenses.

No quotes. Same typo. No word "or". Instead you are talking about "unworthy status" (not doing something unworthily). You also say "such as..." which means you are giving an example of unworthy status.

That is not consistent with what you are claiming to have meant in your other statement.

DPMartin · Mar 23, 2018

FHII said:
Now what abou

No quotes. Same typo. No word "or". Instead you are talking about "unworthy status" (not doing something unworthily). You also say "such as..." which means you are giving an example of unworthy status.

That is not consistent with what you are claiming to have meant in your other statement.

[comment removed]

DPMartin · Mar 23, 2018

Truth said:
One Must adhere to the red letter comments, for His Words were spoken in the Utmost Authority, When a King speaks the Nation should Listen, or suffer the consequences, there have been many Ruler's that passed Edicts, that if you did not adhere to! you were Beheaded, our Savior will Pass Only Righteous judgement, Listen to Him, not religious leader's. you know the old saying STOP LOOK AND LISTEN, rail road safety, or be derailed! See I don't care what Paul said, and Paul was a Great teacher, I care what Jesus said First! We all need to return to the red letter's then filter what was said by the other Apostles.

that's true.

Paul speaks with authority of an Apostle but no Apostle supersedes the Word of the Lord, what Jesus says. therefore one should consider that someone like Paul or Peter or John wrote in the context of what The Lord says, not usurping and or superseding what the Lord says.

town ordinance doesn't supersede state law and state law doesn't supersede federal law, and federal law is under the Constitution.

but most of these so called Christians don't understand authority and how it works. they don't understand command and how it works. their to busy competing for "likes", or saying what ever they can to win an argument even if its just getting in the last word (posting). doesn't matter if its true or not..

DPMartin · Mar 23, 2018

to reiterate

the "Eucharist spices" according to the catholic church is a "holy sacrifice of the Mass" hence they are saying they are sacrificing Christ again. because nothing is Holy without the Presence of God. but it is the church that claims this, not the bible.

if the Lord or the Apostles would have the church perform "holy sacrifice of the Mass" as the church does and as important as the church says it is. the Lord and His Apostles would have been clear and as admit about it, as the church has been about it.

Truth · Mar 23, 2018

tabletalk said:
So, you '..don't care what Paul said,' but your quote from the Word of God at the bottom of your replies is from a letter that Paul wrote (2Thessalonians). Jesus is the Word, Paul preached the Word.
The entire Bible is 'red-letter'.

Well I do care, But Our Savior is the Highest Authority, that was my point!!!

DPMartin · Mar 23, 2018

So, you '..don't care what Paul said,' but your quote from the Word of God at the bottom of your replies is from a letter that Paul wrote (2Thessalonians). Jesus is the Word, Paul preached the Word.
The entire Bible is 'red-letter'.

Truth said:
Well I do care, But Our Savior is the Highest Authority, that was my point!!!

you notice just five words extracted from your statement there truth? SOP for these people, it tells you they have no interest in things of the Lord, only in the practice of provocation, miss direction.

the subject of the thread is the theology behind the Catholic Eucharist.

in the bull fighting rink, the bull is guided by his rage.

FHII · Mar 23, 2018

Truth said:
See I don't care what Paul said, and Paul was a Great teacher, I care what Jesus said First! We all need to return to the red letter's then filter what was said by the other Apostles.

You almost seem to think Paul and Jesus weren't in agreement. I don't see it as a thing were you have to chose between the two. If Jesus sent Paul to preach, then he is coming in Christ's stead.

BreadOfLife · Mar 23, 2018

DPMartin said:
trust in what you say it means or the catholic church for that matter has nothing to do with faith in the Lord Jesus. Just because by Him where all things made, doesn't mean He expected use to understand that His Presence was in the bread and wine because that's what you believe.

Hey - YOU'RE the one who said that Jesus couldn't be in 2 places at ONE time.
That is YOUR lack of faith - not mine . . .

DPMartin said:
also I don't see a description of eternal here:

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus being the Word of God is the foundation of the world, where do you get eternal sacrifice here?

You don't see it because you don't know how to properly divide Scripture.
Allow me to educate you:
Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This verse states that the Lamb was sacrified BEFORE the creation of the world.
This connotes an ETERNAL sacrifice.

DPMartin said:
nope, brought forth is the term use, and it was Melcheizedek who came to Abraham. so you're dead wrong there.

And this is where I said you were engaging in a petty semantic battle. "Offer" and "Bring forth" are synonymous. depending on the context. I gave you a proper context when I compared it to a guest in my house that I "offered" food and drink.

You're still arguing about this point because context is NOT your friend.

BreadOfLife · Mar 23, 2018

DPMartin said:
to reiterate
the "Eucharist spices" according to the catholic church is a "holy sacrifice of the Mass" hence they are saying they are sacrificing Christ again. because nothing is Holy without the Presence of God. but it is the church that claims this, not the bible.
if the Lord or the Apostles would have the church perform "holy sacrifice of the Mass" as the church does and as important as the church says it is. the Lord and His Apostles would have been clear and as admit about it, as the church has been about it.

Surrrrrre - that's why Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of the Apostle John spoke of the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist:

Ignatius of Antioch
The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

bread and wine or "eucharist"

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