Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

Dcopymope · Mar 22, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
It's only funny to you because you're Scripturally-bankrupt.

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

So....we are "already saved", as in justified........but on the other hand, we really aren't justified, because we "will be saved". Which one is it? Are you justified now and forever or not?? I don't really care about addressing every single one liner you bring up that you believe backs up your interpretation of the words "saved" and "sanctification" ultimately being synonymous, but the last three versus you cite certainly states none of the kind. By "enduring to the end", Jesus in context was referring to the saints being delivered out of the Great Tribulation by the Lord at his second coming and the ensuing wrath. It has nothing to do with delivering our souls from damnation. Its about cutting the anti-Christ, the "beasts" reign of terror short for our sake because he knows that no one will be able to endure it. As you state, we are "already saved", of which you of course contradict immediately after. Romans 5: 9-10 can easily be explained in similar fashion, as it states that:

(Romans 5:8-11) "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. {9} Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. {10} For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. {11} And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

Whether that "wrath" be the seven vials judgement, the lake of fire judgement, or something else, Paul makes no distinction. The fact is, whatever "wrath" that may end up being, you are saved from it regardless. When he says we have received atonement, he means exactly that, no strings attached.

Matthew 24 in context, letting the Bible speak for itself:

(Matthew 24:13-22) "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {14} And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. {15} When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand {16} Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {17} Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: {18} Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. {19} And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! {20} But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: {21} For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. {22} And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened................"

(Matthew 24:29-31) "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

1 Corinthians 3:12-15, letting the Bible speak for itself:

(1 Corinthians 3:12-15) "Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; {13} Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. {14} If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. {15} If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Jesus Christ is the foundation spoken of here that is to be built upon, the one that justifies the saints. It makes it very clear that this foundation, my salvation remains intact despite whatever works, or whatever "sanctification" you want to mix into it. I may suffer loss, but my salvation never will, for my sins have been atoned for, now and forever. According to you however, there is something more required on our part.

Heb 13:8 · Mar 22, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
When you pick up that cross, your language just changes, along with some other stuff i guess. The fruit doesn't lie, right?

Right.

bbyrd009 said:
The fact that you can be delivered from the coming wrath today is never discussed in this context, is it? Not even by Christians, God help us, particularly not by Christians, right

Nah 1:2 The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and vents his wrath against his enemies.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Rom 5:10 For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

Rom 11:28 Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs.

Eph 2:3 We all lived among them at one time in the cravings of our flesh, indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Hmm now you have me musing further.
Would it be right to say that when 1 John 3:9 says- " Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
that he is speaking to the first sin...the choice to disobey God voice.

I would say ALL sin.

Which as I read it..Jesus came and destroyed what Satan did in the garden to man...Satan thought that he had destroyed man...but God sent The Man to destroy the work of the Devil.

But we still sin through the weakness of the flesh...we transgress the law of love.

Wouldn't that make 1 John 3:9 a lie?

How do you reconcile that?

Somehow our 'self' nature gets in the way.

How can that be; when the old man is dead?

Mans "REASONABLE" service (work) is to present their body a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable to God.

He saved us when we "were" sinners.
He forgave us our sinS
He crucified the body, "old man", then cleansed it from all unrighteousness, sanctified it, keeps it with Christ, and justified our body's to be redeemed, raised and glorified.

He restored our soul.
He quickened our spirit.
He gave us a new heart.
He gave us faithfulness to Him in our
...spirit, in our hearts.
He gave us His indwelling Spirit.
He made us born of His Seed.

He made us WHOLE.
What part of the WHOLE is now subject to or able to SIN?

What was a Gentiles SINS?
Not believing in God.
Corrupting our souls, being in our corrupt bodies.

And? Not obeying Jewish Laws? No.

The reason we can SIN NO MORE, is He restored our souls. He Gave us a new heart, that we can never stand against Him in disbelief, ever again.

And He gave us New Forever Life in our new born again spirit, from His Seed.

His Spirit dwells in us KEEPING us unto Him and by His Power keeps us in Faithfulness to Him only.
We are His "inheritance".
We are His "sons"
He gives us Power and Strength, from His Power.
He gives us knowledge, wisdom, understanding.

Everything from becoming saved and born again forward; IS about works. What we do or do not do to glorify His name on earth.

There is no consequence for not doing works, and there is rewards for doing works that glorify His name.

We have ONE command ~ to Love.
We have His strength to accomplish that command.

So what are these sins, that people talk about that claim they are made WHOLE, Have the Spirit of God indwelling, but yet, claim that they continue sin?

Some days we dominate it, somedays the flesh weakness allows it to dominate us.
....which is why we are called to overcome daily, in and through Jesus Christ.

I would disagree with this somewhat.
He has accomplished making us WHOLE, it's done. We are freed from sin.

Yet we still walk about the earth. The one thing He "did not change", was our MINDS.
Our Minds still function, as necessary to make decisions, weigh options, raise families, agree to buy things, care for things....

However what has never changed, is His Word. His Word has not changed, but Where His Word IS, has Changed. It's IN US, written on our new hearts, always with us.

And what else has changed, is He has given us POWER within us, "for US to CHANGE our own MINDS.
Which is to say, We have the "tools", His Word, His Power, to make our MINDS thoughts, conform to the thoughts of our spirits in our Hearts.
Which is simply a matter of daily keeping afresh TO listen to our spirits in our Hearts, WHEN we have a MINDFUL Decision to make.
THAT; ^ IS; us doing our part TO: renew our own Minds; TO accomplish HAVING:
A MIND LIKE CHRIST.

It is OUR efforts to accomplish; And for such efforts; the Lord shall reward and bless the individual.
A man who accomplishes doing this: is called
Walking IN the Spirit in perfection of the Lord.

While He has accomplished ALL that IS acceptable to Him, for Him to Be forever with us and us with Him.... He rewards and blesses us for our own efforts to renew our own Minds, learn His precepts, DO what glorifies His Name on earth....but accounts NO sin or punishment of the curse of sin and laws, if we stumble, or flub up.

The paramount thing, is: a stumble, a flub, does not become a SIN unto us.
And we have a WAY, to remedy our stumbles.

Our stumbles are never AGAINST God.
Our stumbles always effects man against man. Or man and a government authority.
If we cause ANY trespass against a man;
We have to remedy that; (with giving and receiving forgivenesses between men), And We have to endure the consequences. Making people mad, or hurt, or injured, or sad or whatever. Or damaging their property. We have to settle the issue. And we have to answer to the civil authorities and their laws regarding our trespasses.

And We have a "TEACHER" within us, teaching us HOW TO avoid stumbles. And IF we make a decision that causes us a stumble;
We have to endure the consequences, AND we have a Comforter WITHIN us to help us THROUGH difficult times....whether they be from us stumbling; or an act of "nature", a house fire, tornado, earthquake, someone trespassing against us, stealing from us, lying, cheating us, etc.

This I see as our daily walk of faith. ( for me the "once saved" bit, is in us acknowledging that Jesus Christ took my place on the cross...and His blood was shed for 'me'. )

His BODY was given, ALIVE, as an example to us. That giving our BODIES ALIVE, FOR the Lord, means WE are GIVING Him authority to Raise "AND" glorify our bodies. It IS us, electing God, choosing God, TO BE OUR God, our Master, our Lord, our Savior.

Jesus' PURE BLOOD, was the ultimate, WAGE PAYMENT, for US, TO BE FOREVER FORGIVEN.

Sin is AGAINST GOD. ONLY God can FORGIVE SIN.
When God has CLEANSED you FROM ALL unrighteousness, and His Spirit Dwells within you.....TO KEEP YOU.....What power do you have within you, TO SIN AGAINST HIM? -0-

You can NOT Trespass against a man, and IT BE A SIN. Men cannot forgive you for SIN.
Even your trespasses against men, IS what you are suppose to forgive men for.

Scripture does not teach YOU, to FORGIVE men of Sins. It teaches YOU, to FORGIVE men their trespasses.
Scripture also does not teach you to ASK God to forgive you for Trespassing against men.
Scripture teaches, "that" "IF" you forgive men their trespasses; GOD WILL ALSO forgive your TRESPASSES. "IF" you do not forgive men THEIR trespasses, neither will God forgive YOUR trespasses.

The fight of faith is not having to daily keep saying ( but we do because we are still thankful and worship Him) 'thank you for saving me from the sin of Adam and rescuing me from hell.' No our fight of faith is endeavouring to walk in His Spirit and not keep falling to the lust of the flesh and all sins against love.

You are already forgiven ALL of your sins, and can SIN no more.
YOU can not BE or STAY faithful, to God, without God, and He is WITH you always, KEEPING you from SIN.
IOW - forever your STANDING is WITH Him, and NEVER AGAIN can you be AGAINST Him.

Love IS our command - and that too, IS NOT accomplished BY OUR WILL, but by His Power within us.

Love God supremely above all things.
Love your family, friends, etc, whom you choose. Love your enemies. But nothing says you have to like people you love.
God doesn't. In fact while He loves all people, some he strongly dislike, which is called hate.

Hearts....He knows the true and He knows the posers....

Yes. We all confess to the Lord our Belief, when we call on His Name; with our "natural" spirit, in our natural heart. Yes He knows a true confession or a lie. And for the true confesser ... He changes their heart and spirit.

I know some of this is probably, in opposition to what you believe. And would be glad to discuss with you, and give you Scriptures paralleling any point you have an interest in.

God Bless,
Taken

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
It's only funny to you because you're Scripturally-bankrupt.

Thanks for sharing your natual self and teaching, showing yourself naturally supreme.

Too bad you haven't noticed, it is not you, or a Pope anyone here is seeking to follow after!

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Thanks for sharing you are VOID of understanding HOW TO DIVIDE the WORD of TRUTH.

There is no INITIAL Saving, and then a FINAL Saving!

But there ARE men who have Become SAVED, period. And there ARE men who ARE being taught HOW TO BECOME SAVED.

You are without understanding.
Once a man HAS become SAVED....it is accomplished!
All the scriptures teaching a man HOW TO BECOME SAVED, no longer apply to a man WHO HAS ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED "BEING" SAVED!

Do you ALSO teach what Jesus accomplished ON the Cross, HE TOO, repeats it over, and over and over, WAITING FOR it TO BE accomplished? LOL

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

Dcopymope said:
So....we are "already saved", as in justified........but on the other hand, we really aren't justified, because we "will be saved". Which one is it? Are you justified now and forever or not??

He doesn't know. He emphatically states complete opposites are true, and then gives some wishy washy response AFTER changing the MEANING of Salvation. Then calls everyone names for NOT agreeing with "him".

His downfall is on a range of MANY of his own errors.
He does NOT understand the difference between what IS ACCOMPLISHED is finished.

He attempts to claim Salvation is accomplished.....BUT NOT REALLY!

Well DUH...Salvation IS NOT accomplished FOR ALL MEN. And there are MANY scriptures teaching the unsavED, how to become savED.

Those Scriptures that teach the unsavED HOW TO become savED, no longer Apply to the man WHO has Already Accomplished becoming savED.

I flat out asked him about Every Scripture applying to Every man.
His response is YES, every Scripture applies to Every man.

His own comments reflect; he does not know when or why any particular Scripture applies to an individual OR NOT.

Jesus was not the only one who fulfilled Scriptures. Jesus was OUR example. We are to do the same. When Scripture is speaking to a man and says.....'IF thou will do this"...
Well ? "IF" a man does this....then what?
The Scripture tells US exactly 'what' we are accomplishing, and fulfilling:"IF" we do this.

He doesn't get it!
He stumbles through Scriptures, then tries to argue with everyone, grabbing Scriptures that DO NOT APPLY to men WHO have accomplished and fulfilled (the "IF"), Becoming Saved and Born again...and he attempts to APPLY to such man, what does not apply to the man.

And to boot, a condescending loud mouth,
That fails to recognize his own erroneous claims and accusations and foolishness.

By "enduring to the saved", Jesus in context was referring to the saints being delivered out of the Great Tribulation by the Lord at his second coming and the ensuing wrath. It has nothing to do with delivering our souls from damnation. Its about cutting the anti-Christ, the "beasts" reign of terror short for our sake because he knows that no one will be able to endure it.

I agree.
But would further say;
I believe in pre-trib; rapture of those now saved, (who, have already been given, grace, mercy, PEACE), being raise up, before the 7 years.
(As in the day of Noah, himself being raised up ABOVE the face of the waters, above the earth as the rain fell, cleansing, and destroying the earth)

And agree ... during the first 3 1/2 years more will come into Belief, by Gods Grace, and become saved, (receiving Gods MERCY and PEACE) and killed and delivered up, (about the 5th/ 6th seal) that none of the saved shall be upon the earth during the Wrath (last 3 1/2 years) of God upon the earth.

As you state, we are "already saved", of which you of course contradict immediately after.

Precisely! And then badmouths everyone who will not FOLLOW HIM, in agreement WITH HIM.

Whether that "wrath" be the seven vials judgement,

Yes Judgements.

the lake of fire judgement,

That is the Sentence.

When he says we have received atonement, he means exactly that, no strings attached.

Precisely.

my salvation never will, for my sins have been atoned for, now and forever.

Precisely.

According to you however, there is something more required on our part.

He is in error. Nothing MORE is REQUIRED.

But that does not mean there is nothing more one CAN DO, (not required), but rather will receive rewards IF HE DOES.

And that is works. When we become savED, and "BORN AGAIN", we are "prepared" to serve God, doing WORKS, that glorify HIS NAME ON EARTH, that others may see and hear, and also ELECT to become saved and born again.

IF we DO such works, the Lord rewards us.
IF we DO NOT such works, we lose out on rewards we could have received.

There is NO requirement, and NO punishment, for NOT doing works.
The man IS forgiven, saved, born again, and NOTHING can jeopardize that ONCE that IS accomplished.

Excellent post.
Gods Bless,
Taken

bbyrd009 · Mar 23, 2018

"Nothing MORE is REQUIRED.[/QUOTE]
why forgive, if you will be forgiven anyway

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
"Nothing MORE is REQUIRED.

why forgive, if you will be forgiven anyway[/QUOTE]

Nothing more is required as noted to receive forgiveness, salvation, born again, etc.

Why not? forgive trespasses (by men) against you?
And why not? Ask for forgiveness when you trespassed against another man?

It benefits you, as in harmony "among" men.

Such as a man who trespasses against you..say rams your car, or your kid breaks their window;
Wouldn't you think it more harmonious, the apology offered, the amends made for repairs.....then the one who tries to weasel out of responsibility?

It's the same reason we benefit by learning Gods Precepts to conduct our lives; being we don't know everything, but He gives us a "good" guide.

And IF we elect to act in such manner; we have a WHOLE forever existence before us, in Gods Kingdom. He also, like on earth, has a "system" if you will, for things in His Kingdom, that already proven men, will do for Him. Just like on earth; we don't put a "green hand" in a management position; but rather one that is "seasoned", and does his job well and acceptable.

God Bless,
Taken

bbyrd009 · Mar 23, 2018

Taken said:
Nothing more is required

Taken said:
And IF we elect to act in such manner

these two do not seem to go together very well, to my mind anyway.

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
these two do not seem to go together very well, to my mind anyway.

How so?

One is about receiving Salvation.
The other is about doing Works, Service, behaviors, etc.

God Bless,
Taken

Grams · Mar 23, 2018

Eph.2:

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

BreadOfLife · Mar 23, 2018

Dcopymope said:
So....we are "already saved", as in justified........but on the other hand, we really aren't justified, because we "will be saved". Which one is it? Are you justified now and forever or not?? I don't really care about addressing every single one liner you bring up that you believe backs up your interpretation of the words "saved" and "sanctification" ultimately being synonymous, but the last three versus you cite certainly states none of the kind. By "enduring to the end", Jesus in context was referring to the saints being delivered out of the Great Tribulation by the Lord at his second coming and the ensuing wrath. It has nothing to do with delivering our souls from damnation. Its about cutting the anti-Christ, the "beasts" reign of terror short for our sake because he knows that no one will be able to endure it. As you state, we are "already saved", of which you of course contradict immediately after. Romans 5: 9-10 can easily be explained in similar fashion, as it states that:

Whether that "wrath" be the seven vials judgement, the lake of fire judgement, or something else, Paul makes no distinction. The fact is, whatever "wrath" that may end up being, you are saved from it regardless. When he says we have received atonement, he means exactly that, no strings attached.

Matthew 24 in context, letting the Bible speak for itself:

1 Corinthians 3:12-15, letting the Bible speak for itself:
Jesus Christ is the foundation spoken of here that is to be built upon, the one that justifies the saints. It makes it very clear that this foundation, my salvation remains intact despite whatever works, or whatever "sanctification" you want to mix into it. I may suffer loss, but my salvation never will, for my sins have been atoned for, now and forever. According to you however, there is something more required on our part.

Well, first of all - I have been BEGGING one of you to provide me with a verse that teaches OSAS - to no avail.
NOWHERE do we read that you are saved "forever" after having been born again - unless you cherry-pick verses OUT of context.

You posted Romans 8:9, which says:
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we SHALL BE saved from wrath through him.

I totally agree. We WILL BE saved - IF we endure in faith to the end.
You cannot hope to be saved if you do NOT endure in faith.

Then you completely misused 1 Cor. 3:12-15, where Paul explains the process of final purification (Purgation) before entering Heaven.
He is talking about people who will suffer through purification before being "Saved". This is necessary because Rev. 21:27 states that NOTHING impure or unclean can enter Heaven.

BreadOfLife · Mar 23, 2018

Taken said:
Thanks for sharing your natual self and teaching, showing yourself naturally supreme.
Too bad you haven't noticed, it is not you, or a Pope anyone here is seeking to follow after!

Oh, I'm not "supreme" at all.
I was just showing YOU how Scripturally-bankrupt YOU are . . .

Taken said:
Thanks for sharing you are VOID of understanding HOW TO DIVIDE the WORD of TRUTH.

There is no INITIAL Saving, and then a FINAL Saving!

But there ARE men who have Become SAVED, period. And there ARE men who ARE being taught HOW TO BECOME SAVED.

You are without understanding.
Once a man HAS become SAVED....it is accomplished!
All the scriptures teaching a man HOW TO BECOME SAVED, no longer apply to a man WHO HAS ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED "BEING" SAVED!

Do you ALSO teach what Jesus accomplished ON the Cross, HE TOO, repeats it over, and over and over, WAITING FOR it TO BE accomplished? LOL

Really - you can't be this dense.
You think that Jesus "accomplished" our salvation on the cross??

What He accomplished on the cross was our REDEMPTION. He PAID for our sins. We're not saved until we cooperate with the grace of redemption.
Until WE decide that we are going to follow Him and remain His servant until the end. THAT is what saves us.

Jesus PAID for the sins of the world on the cross - He didn't SAVE it.
If He had - then EVERYBODY would be saved.

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Well, first of all - I have been BEGGING one of you to provide me with a verse that teaches OSAS - to no avail.
NOWHERE do we read that you are saved "forever" after having been born again - unless you cherry-pick verses OUT of context.

You have been given Scriptures; been Shown Scriptures; Explained there is no elementary language to satisfy an elementary student who requires a billeted list.

Understanding comes from God, AFTER one is diligent to actually read and trust what he is reading is true.

You already have a canal mindset of distrust.
You already espouse you can not believe, so yes, your understanding is going to muzzled.

No one can understand it for you.

This is a brief start.

Are savED
1 Cor 15:2
2 Cor 2: 15

Are sanctifED
1 Cor 1:2
Heb 10:14

Are quickenED
Eph 2:1
Eph 2:5
Col12:13

For ever
John 6:58
John 14:16
Heb13:21
2 John 1

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Oh, I'm not "supreme" at all.

We know!

Really - you can't be this dense.
You think that Jesus "accomplished" our salvation on the cross??

Funny Jesus seems to believe He gave His Flesh for the Life of the world.

John 6:51
...my flesh, WHICH I WILL GIVE "FOR" the life "OF" the world.

Heb 10: 10
"FOR" by "ONE" offering he has perfected FOR EVER them THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.

What He accomplished on the cross was our REDEMPTION. He PAID for our sins.

He accomplished many things. "OUR" redemption is an act that will follow later, For a man WHO HAS Been Saved and Born Again.

We're not saved until we cooperate with the grace of redemption.

Oh good grief. You're not 5 yrs old, or a Jew with a laundry list.
Believe in your heart, call on the Lord, repent; He does the supernatural changing.
That IS "cooperating", doing His WILL to receive forgiveness, salvation, become quickened, sanctified, justified TO BE redeemed!

Until WE decide that we are going to follow Him and remain His servant until the end. THAT is what saves us.

Error!!! Judas decided to follow Him, then changed "his MIND". The other 11 disciples
Decided to follow Him, keep following Him, then became CONVERTED, BY HIM.

The 11 disciples and Paul and others decided to .... Do Works for Him.....yeah...they SHALL BE REWARDED for their works that glorified His Name.

And a saved and born again man WHO DOESN'T do Works FOR HIM? ....awe...they shall not receive rewards they could have had. It does not affect their SALVATION one iota!

Jesus PAID for the sins of the world on the cross - He didn't SAVE it.

No duh! He PAID for ALL.
He doesn't STUFF the GIFT of Salvation in a man.
Duh, the man has to CALL ON THE Lord in belief, to receive his Salvation!!

How can you be SO unknowing of the very basic tenant of HOW one RECEIVES SALVATION, and then call others dense.

Astounding!!

BreadOfLife · Mar 23, 2018

Taken said:
You have been given Scriptures; been Shown Scriptures; Explained there is no elementary language to satisfy an elementary student who requires a billeted list.
Understanding comes from God, AFTER one is diligent to actually read and trust what he is reading is true.
You already have a canal mindset of distrust.
You already espouse you can not believe, so yes, your understanding is going to muzzled.
No one can understand it for you.
This is a brief start.

Are savED
1 Cor 15:2
2 Cor 2: 15

Are sanctifED
1 Cor 1:2
Heb 10:14

Are quickenED
Eph 2:1
Eph 2:5
Col12:13

For ever
John 6:58
John 14:16
Heb13:21
2 John 1

Cool.
NOW, show me where it says we are saved forever - not matter WHAT we do.
When you can show me that - I will leave the Catholic Church and join your sect.

UNTIL you can do that, however - you're just blowing hot wind . . .

BreadOfLife · Mar 23, 2018

Taken said:
We know!
Funny Jesus seems to believe He gave His Flesh for the Life of the world.
John 6:51
...my flesh, WHICH I WILL GIVE "FOR" the life "OF" the world.
Heb 10: 10
"FOR" by "ONE" offering he has perfected FOR EVER them THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.
He accomplished many things. "OUR" redemption is an act that will follow later, For a man WHO HAS Been Saved and Born Again.
Oh good grief. You're not 5 yrs old, or a Jew with a laundry list.
Believe in your heart, call on the Lord, repent; He does the supernatural changing.
That IS "cooperating", doing His WILL to receive forgiveness, salvation, become quickened, sanctified, justified TO BE redeemed!
Error!!! Judas decided to follow Him, then changed "his MIND". The other 11 disciples
Decided to follow Him, keep following Him, then became CONVERTED, BY HIM.
The 11 disciples and Paul and others decided to .... Do Works for Him.....yeah...they SHALL BE REWARDED for their works that glorified His Name.
And a saved and born again man WHO DOESN'T do Works FOR HIM? ....awe...they shall not receive rewards they could have had. It does not affect their SALVATION one iota!
No duh! He PAID for ALL.
He doesn't STUFF the GIFT of Salvation in a man.
Duh, the man has to CALL ON THE Lord in belief, to receive his Salvation!!
How can you be SO unknowing of the very basic tenant of HOW one RECEIVES SALVATION, and then call others dense.
Astounding!!

And this is the SAME falsehood that Jesus Himself spoke against . . .
Matt. 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

You just don't get it - but I'll say this for you - You can sure barf out the drivel . . .

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Cool.
NOW, show me where it says we are saved forever - not matter WHAT we do.

The scripture doesn't SAY what YOU WANT IT TO SAY.

If you can not TRUST TO BELIEVE the Scripture IS TRUE, the Lord's WORD is TRUE,
That's on you, to be and remain ignorant.

If you do not KNOW, what the Lord does when Converting a man,
That's on you, to be and remain ignorant.

What do you think a mans NEW spirit, NEW heart is for? To think and want to do like the OLD CORRUPT natural spirit and natural heart you were naturally born with, from a mans corrupt seed?

You are without understanding.
You make statements revealing you do not understanding what a Conversion DOES.

When you can show me that - I will leave the Catholic Church and join your sect.

From your own admission you have been a Catholic from the cradle; and yet you simply repeat what you were taught, and severely lack a hint of spiritual understanding.

UNTIL

Click to expand...

you can do that, however - you're just blowing hot wind . . .

Oh good grief. I have nothing to prove to you. If you don't want to BELIEVE the Truth In Scripture, then don't.
The Lord doesn't need to satisfy your "what if's", and neither do I.

Taken · Mar 23, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
And this is the SAME falsehood that Jesus Himself spoke against . . .
Matt. 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

You just don't get it - but I'll say this for you - You can sure barf out the drivel . . .

Again, you are without understanding.

NOT EVERYONE who calls on the Lords Name heartfully BELIEVES in Him!

How many times, with your "intelligence" you keep touting do you have to be told....

How many times do you have to be told IF and WHEN a man calls on the Lords Name...

If must be from Their Thoughts of their HEART......NOT their wishy washy MINDS thoughts!

Guess you might be SURPRISED to know, MANY MEN ARE LIARS!

Men for EONS have CLAIMED BELIEF, even joined a Church.............to GAIN positions, girlfriends, business clients, admiration in their communities....

They ONLY FOOL other men.
They DO NOT FOOL GOD!

What do you think the Lord SEARCHES the Heart of a man for?

DUH, it's for the mans TRUTH!!

Gee, I wonder why? Oh ya, that's right, because the Lord GIVES HIS SALVATION to a man who TRULY BELIEVES....IN HIS spirit, IN HIS HEART!

Unlike you preach, that the Lord is a FOOL, and gives Salvation to men and men can throw it back in His face!

Which is MORE of your lack of understanding.
Because as soon as the man from the TRUTH in HIS HEART Confesses....

The man is given a new heart and a spirit and a new truth.......DUH....the Word of God Himself!

Thank God I was not raised in the ignorance your Church teaches. Pitiful!

mjrhealth · Mar 23, 2018

What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means | Catholic Answers

He like them all are just terrified that if they leave "the church" they will die, not knowing they are already dead.

evotell · Mar 23, 2018

Saved from what ? When the multitudes cried out "what must we do to be saved" what were they referring too?

If we read the Bible and take it literally without understanding context & culture we will come away with a completely wrong picture of whats it's saying. When the Rich Young Ruler asked Jesus about eternal life, he wasn't referring to heaven. To understand what he was saying you have to understand the cultural context. Eternal life as understood by 1st century Jews was a state of being whilst alive.

O how we have misunderstood what the Bible is all about.

Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

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