Can you choose God?

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bbyrd009

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But then there is Galatians 2:20
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
yes, that should make plainer that "the flesh" is not evil or bad; acting "from the flesh" is the focus
 
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Taken

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VictoryinJesus ~ bbyrd009 ~

Everything about a natural man is corrupt ~
...NATURAL;
Body of flesh, from the earth
Mind/thoughts in the brain
Spirit/thoughts in the heart
Soul/in the body, from God

The WHOLE intent of God is to CHANGE the: willing man, FROM NATURAL TO Spiritual.

The WHOLE purpose for CHANGE; is so the: willing men, CAN BE WITH His SPIRIT God.

So HOW, is in Scriptural Knowledge.
Results, are in Knowledge understanding.

First belief ~ then Confession ~ by the man
Forgiveness ~ given by God.
Forgiveness FOR: disbelief & corruption

Body change, we can not see;
...dead flesh, body, crucified with Christ
...washed, with Christ's blood
Results ~
Body;
...overcome, dead to sin
...sanctified, justified, Kept with Christ.

Heart change, we can not see;
...circumcised, cutting out the old
...given a new heart
Results ~
...Heart prepared to receive Gods Spiritual Truth

Spirit change, (truth thoughts in the heart)
...given Gods Word of truth
...keep seeking and Gods Wisdom and God Understanding, also given to the hearts thoughts.
Results ~
...Spirit of man, (his truth, becomes Gods truth)

Soul change, (IS the same thoughts as the mans carnal mind).
...Saved from the MINDS corrupts thoughts

The SOUL, is FROM Gods breath.
It does not come from the earth, but rather IS from God.
It's purpose is to bring (quicken) the body into a living state.
It's purpose is to KEEP a complete record of ALL thoughts of every mans MIND.
The SOUL has the SAME identity as the mans body.
The SOUL, however BELONGS to GOD.
The SOUL, is imparted into the man, brings the BODY into a living state.
The SOUL, departs the BODY WHEN the BODY'S own life ceases living.

(The body's LIFE IS IT's BLOOD). It's BLOOD is natural out of the earth. Corrupt, and subject to naturally DIE).

The SOUL, "has" LIFE IN IT.
God is Life. ANYTHING that HAS LIFE IN IT, Has LIFE IN IT, because GOD imparted LIFE into it.
..WHEN God departs LIFE out of "something", the "THING" dies, and the LIFE goes to WHERE God Sends it.

THUS, when the BODY physically dies; the Living Soul departs the Dead Body.
(That Life, ie Living soul, goes to God in heaven, or God separated from God in hell).

When a SOUL within a man IS SAVED.
It's change IS, "restoration".
Meaning, that SOUL was given a man;
Very Good. Became corrupt. Is restored to Good.

It's not a NEW soul, but a restored soul.
It is NOW a soul that once departed from a physically dead body; SHALL go to heaven, to God.

Spirit of man change ~
...born again from a DIFFERENT Seed.
...the SEED of God
...An "UNCORRUPTABLE" SEED of God
...IS where the Spirit of God DWELLS, and FEEDS the mans Spirit in his NEW Heart.

The MIND of man ~ CHANGED by GOD?
No.

The unseen CHANGE BY God IS;
A dead body ~
...cleansed, sanctified, justified
A new heart ~
....cleansed, pure, Place where Gods Spirit indwells
A new spirit ~
...mans truth, now fed, Gods Truth.
A restored soul ~
...Gods truth, able to be received into a mans Mind.

EFFECT? RESULT?
Body, Soul, Spirit, Heart of man;
MADE; WHOLLY WHOLE HOLY and Acceptable to God; Forever God with this man and Forever this man with God.

And IS Justified to BE REDEEMED, "taken" claimed by God, on the day the Son of man, descends to the Clouds, to Call up His Church, WHO ARE, ALL men who have become made WHOLE.

And the MIND of man? Changed by God?
No.

The MIND of a living man, is still natural, and freely thinks, weighs thoughts, logically concludes, makes decisions, according to It's own will.

It makes business decisions, contracts, decides where to live, what job to hold, whom to marry, what car to buy, what to eat, what to study, blah, blah...

However what the MIND ALSO HAS, IS Gods "INDWELLING" influence. The TOOLS, so to speak, OF WHAT THINGS a man CAN USE to mold and shape his OWN MIND.

The man has the THOUGHTS in His Heart, being FED, by the Spirit of God.

The man has such thoughts in his heart, that HAVE the POWER to "influence" the thoughts of HIS MIND.

It is simply a matter OF: a man freely choosing to:
Listening to his MIND, that can conjure up deceit, lies, cheating, sneaking, etc.
....and saying hey, I'll take the risk of not getting caught, and hope to benefit by acting on such thoughts.

OR
Listening to his spirit in his Heart, saying come on dude, NOTHING is secret to God,
There is no HOPE or Peace in corruption.
Everything you desire, can be fulfilled rightly, without deceit, lying, cheating, etc.
Yield your foolish MIND to the thoughts of your spirit in heart. Do things according to Gods "precepts", and YOU have mastered overcoming your own corrupt MINDFUL thoughts.

Gods "precepts" are found "WITHIN" Jewish Laws, IN Scripture.
A saved and born again man; IS NOT subject to the LAW itself, required to follow it, and NOT is such man "accounted as committing a sin" for NOT following such "precepts".

However a man WHO DOES, (use the tools) God provided, TO a saved and born again man,.....what IS the result, WHEN a man DOES DO Gods "precepts" ?

The result is;
...that man has overcome HIS OWN CARNAL MIND.
...that man is now called Walking Spiritually in Perfection.
...that man is now PREPARED to serve God;
ACCORDING to Gods Ways.
...that man now, doing WORKS, that Glorifiy God.
...that man now, is having a record of his glorifying works reported, recorded TO GOD.
...such records, are now Gods evidence, of WHICH, and HOW MANY blessings that man shall receive, while still existing ON Earth.
...such records, are not Gods evidence, of
WHICH, and HOW MANY "rewards" God SHALL given that man; IN His KINGDOM.

Every naturally born living man ~
IS; recorded in the Book of Life, and subject TO being blotted out.

Every naturally born living man WHO becomes forgiven, saved, born again ~
IS; recorded in the Book of Life, and NOT subject TO being blotted out.
IS; recorded in the LAMBS Book of Life;
Containing the names of the Reconcilled and Justified; to be Redeemed and called up to the Son of men, to the clouds; on the day; only He can OPEN the books.

Blessings given a man ON EARTH...
...are given the saved and unsaved.
...but they are not always the SAME blessings.

And hardships (tribulations) effect both the saved and unsaved man ON EARTH.

The difference IS;
A saved and born again man HAS a comforter to comfort the man during Harships.
I suppose an unsaved man, leans on the World to comfort him, or drowns in his misery.

Many are taught...be saved, be born again...
WITHOUT the knowledge of what exactly that means. Thus many continue USING their Carnal Mind ... for everything.
Everyday business.....AND trying to figure out Spiritual Understanding...which IS a colossal
FAIL.

God IS Spirt. Everything about God is Spirit;
His Word, His Actions, His Knowledge, His Wisdom, His Understanding; etc...

God makes ALL the necessary changes within a man for the man to BE with Him forever...

And the man himself, CAN or NOT, mold his own Carnal Mind to be subject TO; the thoughts of his spirit, in his new heart, being Fed by Gods Spirit......and reap the rewards thereof....giving the man FOR his own efforts To mold his mind, subjecting his mind, TO the thoughts of his new spirit.

And when such a man DOES subject his own carnal mind to the thoughts of his new spirit;
The man is walking perfecting in the Spirit of God.
The man has accomplished; Having a MIND, like Christ.
The man CAN accomplish Glorifying God though the mans WORKS.

Believe, become forgiven, saved and born again. Short and sweet teaching.
The understanding is more complicated, order, and routinely unknown, and not understood.

God Bless,
Taken
 

DPMartin

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This thread is all about whether we consider we have ‘free’ will to choose, especially spiritual things or not. Yes, we have our own will to choose how to live, plan, work etc. on this earth. I say is this really ‘free’ will? Not really. God gave us the capability to do all these things to survive and populate the earth. God also gave his will to know him, with our own will. This is a spiritual matter and concerns God’s plans, and not our own.

True free-will is a spiritual affair and we really do not know the extend and complete knowledge of it.

I am of the belief we do not have true ‘free’ will to choose spiritual things. WE are very limited. God has his plan for us and typically overrides our desires or will for those he chooses to ‘bring’ them to knowledge of truth.

We are born with the natural state of being slaves to sin. This alone tells us we are naturally governed by our natural desires. This alone tells us we do not have ‘free’ will to choose God over our own selfish desires. God ultimately chooses us.

Many would say we are then not responsible for our actions. We are at the mercy of God and he controls us like a puppet. No, we are accountable for our actions and yes, we are at the mercy of God, and no, we are not puppets.

God is all-knowing, he is not confined to our sequential time constraints or our 3-D space enclosures including the expanse of the physical universe. He ‘saw’ the future or our destinations before we were conceived. He also invisibly and without human detection, injected himself into our lives, if he desired. We are oblivious to all of this.

At God’s pleasure and choosing, in time, already planned out, he uses some type of criteria (maybe our tendency to love and know God, or just the opposite -yes, to choose under a sinful nature as a slave to sin!) to re-route or maintain the course of someone’s life. He may have plotted and implemented many hundreds of changes in our lives. He already looked at our spiritual DNA, if you will.

His purpose is to bring those he already saw considering him, as slaves to sin, to the Truth. Then God created an environment(s) that would bring them to the truth. From that point on, a person ‘chooses,’ because of the overwhelming power of God presence to follow him in truth with firm faith and commitment. Left alone, using their sinful will and desires, they would never consider choosing God.

Now Scripture does not explicitly speak to this ‘hypothesis’ I’ve describes in skeleton form, although it does seem to fit God’s style and purpose and does not violate any scripture I know of.

As God says we all know him at least by his physical creation(s). We have no excuse to at least consider his presence in our lives. God has given us the ability to choose and to reach out to him in need, even as slaves to sin. He listens to this cry. This is what God taps into and acts on or not. We are truly accountable to consider God first. This is the only ‘free’ choice we can make about our future spiritual state.

So, when God tugs at our hearts and chooses us, we miraculously go to him for his purpose and not our own. We have no choice as we have an overwhelming desire to cross over the fence to truth and not stay in sin and evil. God however will not create this miraculous spiritual environment for everyone; for those he knows will never consider him and his ways.


The concept of ‘free’ will is founded in secular Greek philosophy- Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. It has no business in scripture regarding spiritual matters of the heart. The Greeks spoke of the will or desire in the natural man not the spiritual man. Although they tried to combine the two or say they were the same thing. They were unsuccessful.

(Isa 55:8) The LORD says, "My thoughts are not like yours. Your ways are not like mine.
(Isa 55:9) Just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts."
(Isa 55:10) "Rain and snow fall from the sky and don't return until they have watered the ground. Then the ground causes the plants to sprout and grow, and they produce seeds for the farmer and food for people to eat.
(Isa 55:11) In the same way, my words leave my mouth, and they don't come back without results. My words make the things happen that I want to happen. They succeed in doing what I send them to do. (ALL ERV)



Your feedback is suggested…and encouraged


APAK


God chooses us is true, but as far as punishment? as Paul says brake one part of the law you brake it all, thing is one is born into sin, condemnation, hence death. the punishment is the same no matter what. a man on death row doesn't care about being condemned to death again. so the punishment is the same if you brake the law once, or a thousand times, as far as the relationship with God.


one can't redeem themselves anyway.

hence governmental laws and the enforcement thereof, for those who value the pleasures of this life, and fear that those things be taken from them.
 

APAK

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God chooses us is true, but as far as punishment? as Paul says brake one part of the law you brake it all, thing is one is born into sin, condemnation, hence death. the punishment is the same no matter what. a man on death row doesn't care about being condemned to death again. so the punishment is the same if you brake the law once, or a thousand times, as far as the relationship with God.


one can't redeem themselves anyway.

hence governmental laws and the enforcement thereof, for those who value the pleasures of this life, and fear that those things be taken from them.
DPMartin:
I hope I'm tracking you..

Yes, this is a complimentary or inductive conclusion you have made. God chooses us for salvation and thus he also chooses others for death, for hearts that he deemed to have no capacity for a change as he saw before we were all born. They never received the spirit of God to salvation. They chose to place themselves under the law. Never came to God..nver had a relationship. This is a complimentary segment for this OP.

Interesting....

Bless you,

APAK
 
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DPMartin

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DPMartin:
I hope I'm tracking you..

Yes, this is a complimentary or inductive conclusion you have made. God chooses us for salvation and thus he also chooses others for death, for hearts that he deemed to have no capacity for a change as he saw before we were all born. They never received the spirit of God to salvation. They chose to place themselves under the law. Never came to God..nver had a relationship. This is a complimentary segment for this OP.

Interesting....

Bless you,

APAK


He chooses faith, believing and trusting in Him of course, but that's what Jesus looked for and responded favorably to when He was in Israel. its by Grace through faith plain and simple. the rest don't believe or trust the Word of God, now made flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ. why they don't? I'm sure is discussed by many in the bible, but believing for us, is the focus.

where the fine line actually is can seem ambiguous, but if one thinks back to when they came to the Lord they can see the difference. the Lord our God is faithful to the faithful, the ones who trust and believe God's Word.

don't see that they "chose to place themselves under the law", they were there in the first place if one is born a Israelite. but in the case of Jew and Gentile and the law, Paul touches on that matter some where in his epistles. one is born into condemnation and redeemed from that inevitability.
 

APAK

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He chooses faith, believing and trusting in Him of course, but that's what Jesus looked for and responded favorably to when He was in Israel. its by Grace through faith plain and simple. the rest don't believe or trust the Word of God, now made flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ. why they don't? I'm sure is discussed by many in the bible, but believing for us, is the focus.

where the fine line actually is can seem ambiguous, but if one thinks back to when they came to the Lord they can see the difference. the Lord our God is faithful to the faithful, the ones who trust and believe God's Word.

don't see that they "chose to place themselves under the law", they were there in the first place if one is born a Israelite. but in the case of Jew and Gentile and the law, Paul touches on that matter some where in his epistles. one is born into condemnation and redeemed from that inevitability.
I agree, the God that we have faith in, is always faithful to those that trust and believe in his word.

APAK
 

dataylor

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A few Scriptures to ponder in relation to the opening subject:

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires [Greek: wills, wants, intends] all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (I Timothy 2:3-4 - NASB).

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (II Peter 3:9 - KJV).

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him (John 3:16-17 - NASB).

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [Greek: drag] all men to myself (John 12:32 - NASB).

Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance (Isaiah 45:22-23 - NASB).

It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions (Joel 2:28) -- (Also see Acts 2:16-17).
 

Helen

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yes, that should make plainer that "the flesh" is not evil or bad; acting "from the flesh" is the focus

Agree, our flesh body is not evil or bad..how could it be. It is just the tent which "we" live in and walk around in.
It is our soul that lusts for thing 'for' our body..." I must have chocolate, ice cream, or chips...comes from the soul...not my body . " I want" is soul.
Referred to as "fleshly desires". Being of the flesh nature and not the inner man of the Spirit.
Many think our bodies are sinful or evil...they aren't.
It is the lust of the eyes that get me..either undesirable food that I 'want" (but is actually harmful for the life of the body = sweets )....or a new set of clothes to cover it...but it doesn't have any real interest in what it wears. It's the 'me' that lives inside which 'wants'. :D
 

bbyrd009

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"The name Torah and the general word torah are usually translated with either law or teaching, and that would work on the proviso that what is taught is actually true (i.e. a reflection or adaptation of "natural" law). And it should be noted that covenant precedes formal law (covenant: Genesis 6:18; deposition of formal law: Exodus 20, but note man's natural knowledge of law: Genesis 26:5, Romans 2:15); meaning that the relationship of God and mankind is not brought about by wisdom (God is not "discovered" or found by looking for Him; Luke 17:20), but that wisdom is brought about by the relationship of God and mankind (God is found because He looked for us; 1 John 4:19)..." The amazing name Torah: meaning and etymology
 

Miss Hepburn

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it is my destiny to connect again consciously with my Creator God Father...just as it is impossible for a drop of water to NOT return to its source...thru many ways ..rain, evaporation , the sewer ..but eventually it empties back to the Ocean.
Perhaps 'when' that occurs is my free will...later or sooner...but it will happen.
my input.
 

APAK

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it is my destiny to connect again consciously with my Creator God Father...just as it is impossible for a drop of water to NOT return to its source...thru many ways ..rain, evaporation , the sewer ..but eventually it empties back to the Ocean.
Perhaps 'when' that occurs is my free will...later or sooner...but it will happen.
my input.
Miss Hepburn:

Just curious, do you consider yourself a believer in Christ?

Thanks

APAK
 

Miss Hepburn

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yes.
But why i came back was to say..did Jesus have free will?
Well, we can say of course...but i must say once you have given yourself to God or
given yourself over to doing God's Will...and not the ego's will filled
with pride and angers, laziness and fears...it is as if you don't have free will anymore.
Jesus chose to do our Father's Will.
i often don't feel I have free will...free will means you have a choice...I often do not have a choice, ie, I have to do God's Will...my will would way different!
Usually full of self righteous indignation, "What a little brat she is!" That kind of thing...
but I can't..I just have changed that much by grace.

My take/my ramble on this thing called free will...I dont have much it seems..I feel I am being led more than me 'choosing'.

Can we choose God? well yeah...but it sure seems to me He chose me...someone must have said that already on all these pages i haven't read...I am hugely humbled and grateful for Him entering my life so profoundly...I sure didn't do it!
 
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APAK

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yes.
But why i came back was to say..did Jesus have free will?
Well, we can say of course...but i must say once you have given yourself to God or
given yourself over to doing God's Will...and not the ego's will filled
with pride and angers, laziness and fears...it is as if you don't have free will anymore.
Jesus chose to do our Father's Will.
i often don't feel I have free will...free will means you have a choice...I often do not have a choice, ie, I have to do God's Will...my will would way different!
Usually full of self righteous indignation, "What a little brat she is!" That kind of thing...
but I can't..I just have changed that much by grace.

My take/my ramble on this thing called free will...I dont have much it seems..I feel I am being led more than me 'choosing'.

Can we choose God? well yeah...but it sure seems to me He chose me...someone must have said that already on all these pages i haven't read...I am hugely humbled and grateful for Him entering my life so profoundly...I sure didn't do it!

Ok, I can understand you much more now. I do have the same view and thoughts,....chosen and led by God and not choosing any of it...I like your comment on Jesus as well. Yes, Jesus chose to do the will of his Father from his spirit mind/will. He had a great head start though than any believer that ever lived. He was born as the first believer in God filled with the spirit of God, much' stronger' than the one we have as believers today. His spiritual will was much 'stronger' as compared to his carnal will and thus already biased to do God's will. And I'm not saying that his mental and physical pain in so doing God's will was any different of a human being. His carnal mind was always trying to gain the upper hand and always failed. After his Baptism he gained more of God's power and was literally driven to the cross by his Father's influence.

Bless you,

APAK
 

Miss Hepburn

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"After Baptism he gained more of God's power.."
Yes, as did I after being baptised in the Holy Spirit...as in, wow!

In Jesus' case I would like to add that Jesus immediately took that event with
him into a wilderness much like rocky, dry Utah for 40 days and nights alone..magnifying the moment with fasting, prayer, contemplation and meditation...

Thought I would add in a slightly different or clearer way ...just seems to me I have one choice...choose God's Will to work in me..then I have no more choices.

Today I must see someone I am so mad at because I can not bear one more moment of her neurosis that makes life harder for all those around her (37 yrs of extreme OCD besides)...
but, No, I have no choice...I will be all loving to her..as God is towards her...again only giving patience and kindness and smiles...instead of screaming at her, 'Why do you have to make things SO hard?'

One choice, as I see it...then all
else falls into God's order of love.
 
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APAK

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"After Baptism he gained more of God's power.."
Yes, as did I after being baptised in the Holy Spirit...as in, wow!

In Jesus' case I would like to add that Jesus immediately took that event with
him into a wilderness much like rocky, dry Utah for 40 days and nights alone..magnifying the moment with fasting, prayer, contemplation and meditation...

Thought I would add in a slightly different or clearer way ...just seems to me I have one choice...choose God's Will to work in me..then I have no more choices.

Today I must see someone I am so mad at because I can not bear one more moment of her neurosis that makes life harder for all those around her (37 yrs of extreme OCD besides)...
but, No, I have no choice...I will be all loving to her..as God is towards her...again only giving patience and kindness and smiles...instead of screaming at her, 'Why do you have to make things SO hard?'

One choice, as I see it...then all
else falls into God's order of love.

Of course I'm not in your shoes,,although I've been in similar situations before, for a long time...I was younger and more impatient then..today I would recommend to myself if faced with the same narcistic, ego drive person, to have more patience, love and a giving heart....

APAK
 

aspen

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Choosing God is picking up your Cross and working with the Holy Spirit to perfect love.
 

Taken

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Choosing God is picking up your Cross and working with the Holy Spirit to perfect love.

That is works that glorify His Name.

Jesus repeatedly said....BELIEVE.

Disbelief IS the sin we are naturally born with.

Jesus repeatedly said .... BELIEVE.

Choosing God IS Believing.

God Bless,
Taken
 

aspen

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That is works that glorify His Name.

Jesus repeatedly said....BELIEVE.

Disbelief IS the sin we are naturally born with.

Jesus repeatedly said .... BELIEVE.

Choosing God IS Believing.

God Bless,
Taken

I tend to think that believing is faith + works