Did Jesus on the Cross Act as Man or as God When He Forgave His Crucifiers?

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waynemlj

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Luke 23:34. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do?"When Jesus said this prayer for the fogiveness of those who had any part in His crucifixion, was he acting as man or as God?waynemlj
 

Christina

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Interesting Question WayneMy first instinct is to say as a man being he was asking Father for their forgivenessrather than granting it himself and as a man to be without sin he would have had to give them forgiveness in his own heart.Perhaps it was both But if someone has another thought on the matter I would be willing to consider it.
 

waynemlj

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Hi Kriss,If Jesus did anything as God while he was on earth, wouldn't that mean that Satan had won the temptation battle? Remember that, in the desert, Satan tempted Jesus to use His power as God. "If you're the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread," Matt. 4:4. Jesus refused to do that because He had left His glory as God in Heaven and became a human being in order to be the Second Adam who would obey the Father in every moment of His earthly life. That way He could be the perfect sacrifice to God for the sins of mankind and undo the sins of the First Adam.Jesus taught that we should forgive our enemies and do good to those who hate us. Matt.5:44, "But I say to you. 'Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.' "He was following His own teaching and leaving everything to the Father as He had agreed to do.No, I cannot see how Jesus could have performed one act on earth that was done out of His own power as God. He remained faithful to His covenant with the Father that He would obey Him in all things.John 5:19, "So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, Truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.' "He remained faithful to His Word to His last breath on the cross.waynemlj
 

Siskim

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He surely wasn't acting just as man or he wouldn't have had such mercy and forgiveness under such terrible persecution...perhaps moreso as the High Priest he is, mediator..between God and man. But was this God's Spirit or man's who had such depth of mercy and forgivenss? Not man's...but God's. Man does not possess in himself as natural this kind of love...and Christ, though in the form of man, had the nature of His Father, not the nature of an earthly father...so this was not anything purely mortal as just a man could could or would have such selfless mercy.....
 

HammerStone

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When Jesus said this prayer for the fogiveness of those who had any part in His crucifixion, what he acting as man or as God?
He was still God in the flesh.
 

Peacebewithyou

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He was still God in the flesh.
Agreed. It's impossible to seperate the two - Jesus was fully God, fully man.
 

waynemlj

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He surely wasn't acting just as man or he wouldn't have had such mercy and forgiveness under such terrible persecution...perhaps moreso as the High Priest he is, mediator..between God and man. But was this God's Spirit or man's who had such depth of mercy and forgivenss? Not man's...but God's. Man does not possess in himself as natural this kind of love...and Christ, though in the form of man, had the nature of His Father, not the nature of an earthly father...so this was not anything purely mortal as just a man could could or would have such selfless mercy.....
Hi Siskim,Your response is a very thoughtful one. I see what you're getting at. It does sound like an impossible quality for a human being to have.However, there are two important points to focus on here.1) Jesus was sinless. He did not have our inclination to selfishness at all. And He did teach us to forgive our enemies.2) He had to act as man if he was going to offer Himself to the Father's wrath and take our sins and our punishment for them upon himself.Here are two Scriptures to support the above conclusions.1) Matthew 5:43-45, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, 'Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.' "2) 1 Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."Conclusion: Jesus had to do, himself, what He taught us to do.Furthermore, He could only be our Mediator if he was always acting as man -- the Second Adam. Of course, He was always united to God and filled completely with the Holy Spirit. We are commanded to forgive, and we have, as believers, the same Holy Spirit in us. How can you and I not forgive when we (while enemies of God) were completely forgiven for our sins against Him?waynemlj
 

waynemlj

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Hi Denver,Yes, Jesus was the God-Man. However, as I pointed out to someone's reply, if Jesus acted as God in that moment of prayer for His enemies, then Satan won!Satan tempted Jesus in the desert to act as God in three different temptations, as you will recall. Jesus rebuked Satan and his temptions by quoting Scripture, which was written for man to follow -- not God.Jesus could only remain the Lamb of God if He submitted Himself helplessly to the Father's will with every breath of His life, even His last ones.1 Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."* Color emphasis is mine, of course.waynemlj
 

waynemlj

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Hi Peacebewithyou,Please read my replies to Siskim and Denver to see the point I am making.Thanks for your reply because there is a truth in it. Jesus was the God-Man, but He never used His God power at any time.waynemlj
 

Christina

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Wayne could you explain where you are drawing your conclusion that had he acted as God Satan would have won.
 

Siskim

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Wayne... Yes, I see...The sinless man, who took upon himself the sins of the world. If he was only God, he was not this great sacrifice, because it had to be a man, and yes, there would have been no victory if he was not fully man. So then, as many say and I believe, he was fully man and fully God. It is a thoughtful question though...about this sinless complete man...who was born with and by the divine nature of His Father God. Interesting and amazing...and there can be no conclusion other than that he was man...or else there would be no evidence of the Victory that obviously was won! Thanks for thoughtful reply Wayne...And thoughts about not only loving our enemies....but having any potential or ability to...that's an amazing subject too! It sure doesn't come, if and when it comes, by our mortality! I remember times when God did help me to love a little...my enemies...and I mean a little...though I tried "Alot"..."knowing" the reasons why I tried....and for the "little" I was able to have mercy and not hate...love and not vengence...meekness and not retaliation....I Saw so amazingly the outcome of David's prayers....Prepare me a table in the presence of mine enemies....I saw it. Have also though seen this...God make my enemies to be at peace with me...seeing these things was like a true miracle when I saw them! I could not doubt that God performed it. And I think today, the latter is better...that he made my enemies to be at peace with me....because our Greatest enemy..Pride...so easily tries to rise up in us when we ever might see God show us favor and make us stand in the presence of our enemies....And by not giving me that reward but only the reward that they turn and give me peace...as I am experiencing right now in my workplace by someone who tried to crucify me....who has a higher position than me...I am obliged to remain meek and continue to hold on to love vs. hate or vengence....so that the tables don't turn...due to any arising of Pride in me....And you know...as I try to keep my head down, while this other one flaunts Pride, yet for some reason is not attacking me anymore but has shown mercy...I do it with the secret knowledge that it doesn't matter if I have no Pride...but do have the approval of God...because one day the motives of us all will be exposed...and I say Motives...more than even deeds....And is it my motive to use Grace to conquer my enemy and see them stand in judgement? God forbid... but until I find the heart to Truly (in motive) want love and not judgement for my enemy...I do not deserve this Grace that's been shown to me...and though we can never deserve it...we can atleast try to learn to know God's love toward all men, including our enemies...and God seems to reward our honest trying exceedingly above all we can ask or think. Thanks again Wayne...for good thoughts...kim
 

waynemlj

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Hi kriss,Your words:"Wayne could you explain where you are drawing your conclusion that had he acted as God Satan would have won."Sure, I am happy to explain that truth.You will recall that Satan tempted Jesus in three ways to act as God by (1) turning stones into bread, (2) by throwing Himself off the top of the temple to prove to the people that He was God, and (3) finally Satan tried to get Jesus to worship him in exchange for giving him all the kingdoms of the world.Each time Jesus refuted Satan by quoting Scripture. Jesus refused to act as God in a way that would have made Him a disobedient sinner against His Father.John 5:19, "So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what He sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.' "In these words of Jeus we are clearly to understand that He came to earth born as a man, the Second Adam, to live a sinless life as a man, and to do everything in thought, word, and deed as a man, completely subject to the Wiil of the Father which the Father was constantly revealing to His Son. That includes the miracles, healings and his final words of forgiveness of His crucifiers in a prayer to His Father.Did He not teach us to forgive those who sin against us? Well, He was only doing what He taught us to do.waynemlj
 

Peacebewithyou

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In these words of Jeus we are clearly to understand that He came to earth born as a man, the Second Adam, to live a sinless life as a man, and to do everything in thought, word, and deed as a man, completely subject to the Wiil of the Father which the Father was constantly revealing to His Son. waynemlj
Hi wayne,Do you believe that Jesus was fully man AND fully God while on Earth? :confused: