Jesus never said he was God Almighty

101G said:

thanks for the response. but,
to sit down don't actually means to physically sit down. listen as high priest he sits because he finishes from his work. yes our Lord stands, because he's our mediator.

but we're speaking of his work on earth in salvation. see the Lord Jesus is the power or the ARMY of God on EARTH in flesh. let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

in the book of 2 Chronicles chapter 32, the king of Assyria invaded Judah. king Hezekiah spoke to the people, and this is what he said.

2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:

2 Chronicles 32:8 "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah".

he said that with Sennacherib was an "ARM" of FLESH, meaning his POWER, his ARMY, his Fighting men.

understand, the Lord Jesus is God's "ARM" of flesh, his POWER, his fighting man, his army of ONE. listen, Isaiah 42:13 "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies".

there's that man of war, the LORD himself. the Mighty man, God's own ARM.

Hoped that helped.

Click to expand...

No, sitting down actually means to sit down. Standing up actually means to stand up. Jesus Christ didn't stand in (Acts 7:55-56) because He is our Mediator. He stood to receive Stephen who was being martyred.

Christ the Head of the Church sits at the right hand of God. (Col. 3:1-2) "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

To Christ has been given all power and authority in Heaven and on Earth. (Matt. 28:18) "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Col. 1:16-18) "For by him were all things created,that are in heaven,and that are in earth,visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. And he is before all things,and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body,the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

Jesus Christ is the all in all in Heaven and Earth.

Stranger

101G said:

He the son was made in the LIKENESS os a man. remember he "TOOK PART" in our humanity, and was not a "PARTAKER" of it. big difference. see he took on flesh, an addition. just read the text, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil".

see he was not a PARTAKER.


Now, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "TITLES" and not PERSONS. there is only ONE PERSON, not 3.

see the distinction is ANOTHER and yes Phil. 2:6 points that out. just look up the ROOT of G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.

notice it's a NOUN which is the PERSON, and not an adjective which describes the person. see the difference now.

that root word of G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n. opens the door to understanding the Godhead.

Hope that helped.

PCY

Click to expand...

You are not making any sense. (Heb. 2:14) declares that Jesus is partaker of flesh and blood. Then you say He is not partaker.

There is one God, not three. There are three Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Your Greek effort supplies nothing. The 'form' of God and the 'form' of a Servant in the likeness of men. (Phillipians 2:6-7)

So?

Stranger

I am not buying into your views @APAK , sorry. Socinianism reduces the love of God to the human level and severely reduces i value the sacrifice and love of the Father. Your treatment of scriptures that clearly reveal the pre-existence of Christ before Bethlehem seems to come from merely human reason rejecting what you cannot see logically. Your rejection of the divinity of Christ must surely affect your soteriological views as well.
In these last days, Who we worship is intimately linked to our destiny. If we are talking in terms of the identification of Christ, meaning who He actually is, this discussion concerns the way that the New Testament writers describe Him. When opening his gospel, John penned the words that most Christians can probably recite with ease.
―In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God. The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:1-2
John clearly says that the Word (whom he later describes in verse 14 as becoming flesh) is God but he also adds ―the Word was ―with God. This then is the problem.
In much the same way as John described Christ, so too did Paul the apostle (this was almost 40 years prior to John writing his gospel). He also said that the preexistent Christ was God and was with God. Whilst everything that the apostle
wrote in this respect cannot be quoted here, the following will suffice as a summary
―Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:5-8
Just a cursory look at this Scripture tells us that Christ, in His pre-existence, was―in the form of God. It also tells us that He was ―equal with God. Here again is the very same problem. It is how Christians can profess two divine personalities to be God.
Christ being God manifest in the flesh is indeed the mysteries of mysteries. It is also the faith of Christianity. This though does not mean that this is something that cannot be reasonably understood. I say this because through a prayerful study of the Scriptures, it must be said that each sincere seeker of truth can come to an understanding of this one aspect of the Christian faith that sets it aside from all the other religions of the world. This is that in the person of His beloved Son, our God became flesh and gave His life as atonement for sin for every person that has ever lived. This is the ongoing message of Christianity.
One does not need to be a trinitarian to accept the divinity of Christ. But one must accept the Bible as it reads, and not necessarily treat revelation as being something we must logically and reasonably see before accepting it.

APAK said:

brakelite: no worries, I still serve the same God and Jesus is definitely my Lord and savior. Jesus partakes of the source of power and spirit of his Father as we speak.

I surmised and said it in my OP that the touchstone verses of both believers in the Trinitarian and/or preexistent and incarnate Jesus models were John 1:1-2 and John 1:14a. Touchstone verses with a meaning that can not be verifies in scripture. It must be invented to compensate for the level of faith they have in believing that Jesus has to be a 'god' in order not to not sin; and ignoring what the birth and Baptism of the son of God really meant. Jesus actually was born a human being with the spirit of God in his heart, and of the human nature of Mary. Jesus was the FIRST and ONLY born true believer in God as we are later in life. Nothing else would suffice God's demand that his son and the last Adam has to be 100 % human to become the permanent sacrifice for sin and undo the curse of this sin made by first Adam.

Bless you brother,

APAK

Click to expand...

I actually do not believe it was necessary for Jesus to be 'god' as you say, in order to not sin. He was fully human, and my view is that He lay His divinity aside and used not one vestige of His divine power in order to resist temptation. As you say, He lived as we are to live. By faith in the Father. His Father and ours...His God and ours.
But the 'begotten' nature of Christ is the issue for all of us...unitarians, trinitarians, or semi-arians. The question is 'when was He begotten?' I cannot accept that Jesus is a 'lesser' or 'inferior god' as you propose.
With regards to Psalm 45:6 where it says, -Thy throne O God, is forever and ever,- the casual reader might take this to be simply the Psalmist's ascription of praise to God, but when we turn to the New Testament, we find that it is much more. We find that God the Father is the speaker and that He is addressing the Son, calling Him God. See Heb. 1:1- 8 This name (God) was not given to Christ in consequence of some great achievement but it is His by right of inheritance. Speaking of the power and greatness of Christ, the writer to the Hebrews says that He is made so much better than the angels, because ―He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Heb. 1:4. ―A son always rightfully takes the name of the father; and Christ, as ―the only begotten Son of God, has rightfully the same name. A son, also, is, to a greater or less degree, a reproduction of the father; he has to some extent the features and personal characteristics of his father; not perfectly, because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no imperfection in God, or in any of His works, and so Christ is the ―express image of the Father‘s person. Heb. 1:3. As the Son of the self - existent God, He has by nature all the attributes of Deity.
―But the point is that Christ is a begotten Son and not a created subject. He has by inheritance a more excellent name than the angels. He is ―a Son over His own house. Heb. 1:4; 3:6. And since He is the only-begotten Son of God, He is of the very substance and nature of God, and possesses by birth all the attributes of God; for the Father was pleased that His Son should be the express image of His person, the brightness of His glory, and filled with all the fullness of the Godhead. So He has ―life in Himself; He possesses immortality in His own right, and can confer immortality on others. Life inheres in Him, so that it cannot be taken from Him; but, having voluntarily laid it down, He can take it again.
―Christ ―is in the bosom of the Father; being by nature the very substance of God and having life in Himself, He is properly called Jehovah, the self existing one and is thus styled in Jer. 23:56, where it is said that the righteous Branch, who shall execute judgment and justice in the earth, shall be known by the name of Jehovah-tsidekenu -- THE LORD, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
All things proceed ultimately from God, the Father; even Christ Himself proceeded and came forth from the Father, but it has pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell, and that He should be the direct, immediate Agent in every act of creation. My object in this investigation is to set forth Christ's rightful position of equality with the Father, in order that His power to redeem may be the better appreciated. A word of caution may be necessary here. Let no one imagine that we would exalt Christ at the expense of the Father or would ignore the Father, nor vice versa. That cannot be, for their interests are one. We honor the Father in honoring the Son. We are mindful of Paul's words, that "to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1 Cor. 8:6); just as I have already quoted, that it was by Him that God made the worlds.


Ephesians 3:1-21

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Stranger said:

No, sitting down actually means to sit down. Standing up actually means to stand up. Jesus Christ didn't stand in (Acts 7:55-56) because He is our Mediator. He stood to receive Stephen who was being martyred.

Christ the Head of the Church sits at the right hand of God. (Col. 3:1-2) "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

To Christ has been given all power and authority in Heaven and on Earth. (Matt. 28:18) "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Col. 1:16-18) "For by him were all things created,that are in heaven,and that are in earth,visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. And he is before all things,and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body,the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

Jesus Christ is the all in all in Heaven and Earth.

Stranger

Click to expand...

GINOLJC, to all.
ERROR on your part. Revelation is symbolic. sitting is this, Hebrews 10:11 "And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Hebrews 10:12 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10:13 "From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

sit down on the RIGHT HAND of God is not physically sitting. right Hand, as well as Right ARM, are anthropomorphism. The right hand is in POWER, in Authority, now glorified in the Spirit the Holy Spirit..

hence by him sitting he fulfills Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right" hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". but id you read the 5th number in this Psalm you will se that it's the "Lord" and not the "LORD" who strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

and see how "Lord" is rendered in that number.

Now let me prove this to you without a doubt.

Are you not seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus now? let's check the record.

Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus".

now stranger, are you seated in heavenly places "PHYSICALLY" now? no, you're physically here with us right now.

but you have authority in Christ Jesus to Raise the dead, heal the sick, open blind eyes, well at least we suppose to. see the difference now?.

APAK said:

@101G ....

It makes no difference in the meaning of the ESV versus the KJV

(1Pe 1:10) Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
(1Pe 1:11) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
(1Pe 1:12) Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. (ALL KJV)

There still is a marked difference between Verse 10 "Spirit of Christ:\" and "Holy Ghost" in verse 12.
You are not understanding the scripture here.

These Prophets used the gift of God, Spirit of God to speak of the future events, when the gospel would be preached by the Holy Ghost in the future.

Bless you,

APAK

Click to expand...

Oh yes, it does. and it's you who is not understanding the Scripture.

now I ask you apak where was the Spirit of Christ concerning the prophets, the answer IN them, now do you agree with the scriptures or not. read 1 Peter 1:11 again and say if you agree with the scriptures or not.

PCY

brakelite said:

I actually do not believe it was necessary for Jesus to be 'god' as you say, in order to not sin. He was fully human, and my view is that He lay His divinity aside and used not one vestige of His divine power in order to resist temptation. As you say, He lived as we are to live. By faith in the Father. His Father and ours...His God and ours.

Click to expand...

Not trying to butt into your conversation, but are you saying that our Lord Jesus has a God over him? yes or no.

PCY.

101G said:

Not trying to butt into your conversation, but are you saying that our Lord Jesus has a God over him? yes or no.

PCY.

Click to expand...

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Ephesians 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying...and that God is His Father.

brakelite said:

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Ephesians 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying...and that God is His Father.

Click to expand...

THANKS FOR THE REPLY.

#1. John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God".

When the Lord Jesus said "My" Father is he not speaking of "HIS" Spirit. meaning his Spirit in Heaven. my Spirit is his Spirit, just as the Father says "My" Son" meaning his BODY on Earth.

now the "OUR" Father, or your Father. scripture, Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"

yes, we all, U, ME, US have ONE Father, let's prove this by scripture, Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it".

God is the Father of spirit, yes he's our FATHER.

#2. Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ". and let's kill two birds with one stone. John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent".

#1. above proves the Father because we all are in flesh and HAVE his Spirit. but what about JESUS.... (smile). does Jesus have a Father? in the BIOLOGICAL sense... NO.

let me give you a heads up... James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world".

God and the Father? I thought you said that "GOD is the FATHER". yes, but you missed that little conjunction "and" in between. see God "AND" the Father is the SAME ONE. now back to John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent". that the SAME PERSON.. this is what I been saying all along, God is the numerical difference of himself as G243 allos states, (see Vines dictionary ).

I guess you all will get it sooner or later.

conclusion: the Lord Jesus is God in Flesh as the Son. so he has NO GOD over him, next to him nor under him. did you not hear,

Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any".

if the Lord Jesus know not any why put someone besides him?...... makes no sense.

PCY.

I might add that though scripture clearly declares that Jesus was begotten and made in the exact image of His Father.... Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high...if this was speaking of the birth at Bethlehem, then anyone beholding Him would have been destroyed. So no, this description of Christ applies to His being begotten before creation, His coming forth from His Father in eternity.

brakelite said:

I might add that though scripture clearly declares that Jesus was begotten and made in the exact image of His Father.... Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high...if this was speaking of the birth at Bethlehem, then anyone beholding Him would have been destroyed. So no, this description of Christ applies to His being begotten before creation, His coming forth from His Father in eternity.

Click to expand...

thanks for the reply, you can add that but it's not going to help any.

here's why see the Lord's body was begotten by the Father the Holy Spirit, but not the spirit in that body. understand the spirit is before the body. supportive scripture, Luke 2:21 "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb".

see, the Lord Jesus (Spirit) was here before his Body.

now, as for as the "exact image of His Father". that the "character" or the characteristics of God in flesh. listen, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

see that....... the express image of his person. let's see what "express image" here means, it's the Greek word, according to (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries)
G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image

look at definition #3. and character in the Greek when used metaphorically means "Son". Son is the Greek word G5207 υἱός huios (hwiy-yos') n.

so what was expressed is the "character" of God in flesh. and that EXPRESSION is the exact EQUAL "share" as Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God"

and the EQUAL "form" of God is the Equal "share of God. hence GOD in flesh.

same person, only a numerical Another of himself in flesh.

my God how hard is it to understand?.

PCY

APAK said:

Of course it was IN THEM...when did I say or imply it was not in the Prophets? what do you think I meant, over them or something?
Your are making a thing out of nothing...

I said, "The expression ‘spirit of’ means the gifts or the selected spirits that is given to people for various purposes of God by his spirit. God gives them to any person for his purpose."

This is understood as being in them, the Prophets....."the spirit of" Christ

Stop with this imagination of yours, please.

Bless you,

APAK

Click to expand...

U said, "The expression ‘spirit of’ means the gifts or the selected spirits that is given to people for various purposes of God by his spirit. God gives them to any person for his purpose."

ERROR, it's the SAME Spirit in us, not spirit(s) given. and it's not BY his Spirit, it's his Spirit that enables the gifts. scripture, Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance".

second I asked you about the Spirit "OF" Christ.

now once again is the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God the SAME Spirit YES or NO.

I'll be waiting for that answer.

PCY.

APAK said:

The exact image of his Father here means he was BORN with the spirit of God, with his Father's exact spirit within his own spirit, within his heart. He was in his Father. We are in Christ!

Click to expand...

ERROR on your part, Jesus the spirit was NEVER BORN, the body of JESUS was born, but not the spirit. supportive scripture, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".

that FLESH was "born", not the spirit/Son he was GIVEN.

PCY.

APAK said:

OF COURSE IT IS THE SAME SPIRIT OF CHRIST IN YOU AND ME as these Prophets of this subject!

Click to expand...

thanks for the reply. calm down.... (smile). it's your making. yes, the Spirit of Christ is the Same as the Spirit of God.

that statement you just have made nullified your topic "Jesus never said he was God Almighty". he said it in the prophets of OLD and he is saying "I AM almighty God in the new testament by his chosen apostles.

lastly, don't get annoyed with me, get annoyed with yourself, you made the ignorant ERROR of posting this topic. .

and just because you cannot answer the question I put forth to you. don't get mad, just study more.....



PCY.

Stranger said:

Because all judgement is given to the Son. (John 5:22)

Just because Jesus sat down at the right hand of God doesn't mean He cannot stand up anymore. (Acts 7:56)

Stranger

Click to expand...

maybe you missed the point of my question: why did the Word of the Lord come to David and tell him he wouldn't build a house unto the name of the Lord?

1 Chronicles 22:7-10
[7] And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the Lord my God: [8] But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. [9] Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.