(setfree;39316)
There is a lot I have to learn about the work of the Holy Spirit, Baptism etc. I learn by asking question. Some people get offensive when I ask questions, but this is how I learn. What I have come to learn this far is that there is more to the work of the Holy SPirit than I was taught. The Holy Spirit has always been even during creation. In the Old Testament the spirit came upon prophets to empower them for what God called them to do. But the Holy Spirit never entered a person until the work Christ-to reconcile us to the Father. It is through Christ all things are possible in the Spirit. The Scripture that I quoted before states that Christ had to die and return to his father before the Holy Spirit came. Knowing this from scriptures is when I ask the question "How did the thief recieve the Holy Spirit if it had not been given yet?" I have not had this answered with scriptures to back it up. I also ask How were the Old testament saints saved if the Holy Spirit did not endwell then? Again, No answer! What I find in scripture is that we are saved by faith in the work of Christ, not our own. The same faith that the old testament saints were saved-faith in the promise of Jesus. But then the Holy Spirit had not come to dwell inside a person. It was their faith that was counted unto them for righteousness. The thief was saved the same way the old testament saints were saved, through faith! The Holy Spirit had not been given at that time.This is my understanding so far. I am open minded enough to except the truth shown in scriptures.
Dear friend, please do not become frustrated. This is a huge deal and there is alot involved. Dont be discouraged by people who become defensive. Everyone is diffrent we all learn in diffrent ways .Asking questions is a great way to learn. 1. the thief on the cross-but lets go back a littlelets look at John1:1John 11In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.So from this we learn that the (word) which is Christ was with God from the begining(katabole) -absolute begining (in him was life and life was the light of men) so they created everything together.5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.Here is the old testament God created his people and spoke with them and led them through prophets and various ways so it states in the old testament.However the people continued to sin and turn away from God.6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.So God sent John someone who had been prophesied about who could relate to the people and tell them that God in the flesh was coming.9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.[/FONT]I love this because it somes up so much... So Christ came so that anyone who would recieve him would have the powerto become the sons of God. Even to them that believe on his name.then they are born of God.So all this being said lets look at the thief: luke23:39-4439Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, £“If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”40But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42Then he said £to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”43And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”44Now it £was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. 45Then the sun was £darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. 46And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’”£ Having said this, He breathed His last.47So when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God, saying, “Certainly this was a righteous Man!”This is so awesome. In the old testament men would sacrifice animals and the blood shed would atone their sins.Here is Jesus hanging on the cross dying , one thief is blaspheming him and the other is a believer. He is a confessed believer.so he siad remember me today in your kingdom lord.Jesus tells him today you will be with me in paradise.Then he dies for the thiefs sins.And ours too. Then the thief went to heaven to dwell with the spirit.So, the spirit is for us who are living . Because the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. That is why we need the Holyspirit . and it is given upon believing.