Suck it up buttercup. Don't be scared of a little intellectual warfare ;-) It's just Bible verses - it's not gonna hurt you.
Dispensationalism is it Scriptural?
- Thread starter Harvest 1874
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101G
Well-Known Member
Addressing the OP only. haven't read all the Post. but consider this.
there is three dispensation of God. notice I said of God.
scriptural support,
1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
Spirit, Lord, God =Spirit Glorified with the Lord. or as Revelation 1:4 b states, "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come". three designations but "ONE" him. Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne".
"HIM" once more, Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you".
Three (3) dispensation one God One Person.
Dispensation #1. Genesis 1:1, Spirit, CREATOR, MAKER, I AM, (Exodus 3:14). which is, (Revelation 1:4). The title "Father", 1 Corinthians 12:4 = Spirit (without Flesh)
Dispensation #2. John 1:1, Man spirit (diversified), SAVIOUR, REDEEMER. THAT, (Exodus 3:14), which was, (Revelation 1:4). the Title, "Son". 1 Corinthians 12:5 = Lord (Spirit in flesh)
Dispensation #3. Revelation 1:1 Spirit Glorified as a man, COMFORTER, MEDIATOR, I AM, (Exodus 3:14). which is to come, (Revelation 1:4). The "Holy Spirit". 1 Corinthians 12:6 - GOD ALL all in ALL. Spirit Glorified as a man.
PCY.
there is three dispensation of God. notice I said of God.
scriptural support,
1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
Spirit, Lord, God =Spirit Glorified with the Lord. or as Revelation 1:4 b states, "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come". three designations but "ONE" him. Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne".
"HIM" once more, Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you".
Three (3) dispensation one God One Person.
Dispensation #1. Genesis 1:1, Spirit, CREATOR, MAKER, I AM, (Exodus 3:14). which is, (Revelation 1:4). The title "Father", 1 Corinthians 12:4 = Spirit (without Flesh)
Dispensation #2. John 1:1, Man spirit (diversified), SAVIOUR, REDEEMER. THAT, (Exodus 3:14), which was, (Revelation 1:4). the Title, "Son". 1 Corinthians 12:5 = Lord (Spirit in flesh)
Dispensation #3. Revelation 1:1 Spirit Glorified as a man, COMFORTER, MEDIATOR, I AM, (Exodus 3:14). which is to come, (Revelation 1:4). The "Holy Spirit". 1 Corinthians 12:6 - GOD ALL all in ALL. Spirit Glorified as a man.
PCY.
Harvest,
Welcome to CyB. I trust you have an edifying time here.
The formulation of Dispensationalism as a distinct theology is of fairly recent vintage - 200 years old.
"Irishman, John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) is unquestionably the father of modern
dispensationalism. Darby came from a highly honorable family and received an
excellent education. He entered Trinity College, Dublin, at the age of fifteen and
graduated with highest honors as a Classical Gold Medalist at age eighteen....
"The most well known feature of dispensational theology is the much-debated pretribulational rapture doctrine" (Thomas Ice, A Short History of Dispensationalism).
Would you please make your posts MUCH shorter and keep them to 1 or 2 points at the most? Otherwise, I get bored with reading your posts. I'm being honest.
Oz
Just for clarification, first of all I don’t consider myself to be a “Dispensationalist”, that is simply a title given by men and can carry a wide range of meanings. I am first of all a Christian, likewise a student of God’s Word, a Bible Student. As a student of the word I accept what the word teaches, and since it is self-evident that it teaches about dispensations (time periods, ages, and etc.) marking various times in which the Lord accomplished certain works, with certain individuals, nations and etc. then I deem it as scriptural, fact.
Now as far as so-called “Dispensationalist” are concern it should be understood that not all who believe in the dispensations as taught in the scriptures believe exactly the same things.
For example we (Bible Students) do not hold to the same interpretations of the scriptures as DAH has presented in his comments, parts of it yes, but as whole no. Nevertheless he is entitled to his opinions even as are the rest of us.
As for lengthy post, well sorry but I like to be through so as to aid those “weak” in faith, the Lord’s little ones, you of course are free not to read anything you don’t wish.
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Thanks glad to be here,
As I said in reply to OzSpen I do not consider my self to be a "dispensationalist" that's just a title men give to those who believe the scriptures to so teach. As I said I am first and foremost a Christian, a student of the Word of God.
I used to be a Baptist, and that was what I was referred to as, but I was not a Baptist, I was a Christian, a believer in Christ Jesus and salvation through no other means.
I think the ISSUE becomes more complex muddling the simple, when men start LABELING themselves.
A pre-tibber, a dispensalationist, a Calvinist, a Christian, a Universalist, blah, blah.
It makes ones beliefs CURT, limited, when each label has an element of truth in them and a LIMITING aspect of the Lords Truth.
Scripture does not dole out Labels, NOR limit the Lords Truth. It is His TRUTH, the Lord desires a man to BELIEVE and TRUST...whether or not they Understand it.
It has been for centuries MEN that like to physophically decide the Extent and Limits of the Lords Truth and then LABEL it, and then Adopt the Label and Slap that LABEL on their foreheads For all to know and see.
The Lords way is simple....They do not require man made Labels. And a man can not even KEEP the Lords way, without the Power of the Lord within the man.
Pretrib, midtrib, end of trib, during the rest of your natural life cycle, what you eat, where you live, who you eat with.........what man can kill your body, slander you....
ALL irrelevant, for a man WHO IS IN Christ, and the Holy Spirit IN the man....!!
Such a man IS already alive forever and forever with His Lord, His God.
If the Lord desires to drag you though the tribulation....He is with you.
Which means, whatever You are being subjected TO, so also is His Spirit.
If He desire to cause you to sustain the hardships of locusts, of lack of food, of chaos, wars, stench of sulfur........He is with you, and either enduring the same, or overpowering the effects to Him and to those that ARE HIS.
For one thing...God has His Earth to deal with, aside from its occupants. The Earth itself is Corrupt. It's already sustained it's Water cleansing, and WILL be subject to His Purifying FIRE. And Like with the FLOOD, so also will many men who rejected the Lord, BE affected by Gods Wrath upon the Earth.
And Like with the FLOOD, many were destroyed in the FLood and a few were raised above the Havoc of the Flood, to the face of the waters and saved.
So also shall shall it be the SAME, when the Wrath of God is upon the Earth with FIRE, many will be destroyed in the Fire, and few will be raised above the face of the earth and saved.
Trust in the Word of God, and the gifts He has prepared and given to men who believe in His Christ, the Lord Jesus.
Mankinds limiting Labels...pfft!
God has a LABEL for men...It's called His People ISRAEL....(and I do not mean Isralies, a Land, or Jacob....I mean the name of the Lords People, IS ISRAEL)...and has a name for each man that IS His People for their forehead.
God Bless,
Taken
I suppose the biggest problem I have with Dispensationalists is the way they seem to feel that they can pin-point, almost to the day, (I'm being a bit factious there) the beginnings and ends of all the past "D's", with the exception of this final one (which they conclude we just happen to be living in right now...... which BTW, so has every generation that has ever lived and died before us, believed).
This one, they have conveniently left "open-ended."
Yet, hundreds (perhaps, thousands) of their proponents and adherents have written enough books predicting the exact date of "The End" to fill the ark. That "End" would be the closing of this final "D"..... but it never happens. Neither do all "The Antichrists" they have identified as "the one" who will usher in our demise by becoming the One World Ruler.
There are several other problems I see with their whole fantasy, such as their sad attitude of complete "Defeatism." They appear to give more power to Satan than they do to God, because they preach that the Gospel we were told to preach is really pretty impotent, and is not going to do much more than eventually "save" only a tiny portion of the world..... at which point God will just finally give up, and end the whole mess.
But, this will do for now.
This one, they have conveniently left "open-ended."
Yet, hundreds (perhaps, thousands) of their proponents and adherents have written enough books predicting the exact date of "The End" to fill the ark. That "End" would be the closing of this final "D"..... but it never happens. Neither do all "The Antichrists" they have identified as "the one" who will usher in our demise by becoming the One World Ruler.
There are several other problems I see with their whole fantasy, such as their sad attitude of complete "Defeatism." They appear to give more power to Satan than they do to God, because they preach that the Gospel we were told to preach is really pretty impotent, and is not going to do much more than eventually "save" only a tiny portion of the world..... at which point God will just finally give up, and end the whole mess.
But, this will do for now.
That is very clever, @Willie T, and doubtless true, but eloquence is not the object here, is it? but the imparting and reception of truth.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
@OzSpen, @DAH, @Harvest 1874, @Naomi25, @Stranger, @Willie T, @mjrhealth, @kit, @Taken
Hello there,
The hope of the Church of the Mystery is to be manifested with Christ in the glory that belongs in the place where He now sits at the right hand of God, and must not be confused with either the hope of Israel or of the Church called into being during the Acts of the Apostles and before the setting aside of Israel, and their hope at Acts 28. This phase, the hope of the Church of the Mystery, lies outside the scope of 'Prophecy'.
The Coming of Christ to the air as revealed in 1 Thessalonians 4 is associated with Israel by the reference to the 'Archangel' who is none other than Michael who stands for Israel (1 Thess. 4:16); Jude 9; Dan.12:1). This company belong to the heavenly calling, who are Abraham's seed, as Galatians 3:9,27-29 reveals, and who are associated with'Jerusalem which is above' (Gal.4:26) the heavenly Jerusalem. At this coming of Christ, living believers will be changed, the sleeping saints raised, and so, and in no other way, will be for ever with the Lord. In connection with the purpose that envisages a kingdom on the earth, Matthew 24 must be studied, its time factors (24:15,21,29,30,33) given full place and believed, which will link Matthew 24 with the hope of Israel, and not with the hope of the Church of the present dispensation.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello there,
The hope of the Church of the Mystery is to be manifested with Christ in the glory that belongs in the place where He now sits at the right hand of God, and must not be confused with either the hope of Israel or of the Church called into being during the Acts of the Apostles and before the setting aside of Israel, and their hope at Acts 28. This phase, the hope of the Church of the Mystery, lies outside the scope of 'Prophecy'.
The Coming of Christ to the air as revealed in 1 Thessalonians 4 is associated with Israel by the reference to the 'Archangel' who is none other than Michael who stands for Israel (1 Thess. 4:16); Jude 9; Dan.12:1). This company belong to the heavenly calling, who are Abraham's seed, as Galatians 3:9,27-29 reveals, and who are associated with'Jerusalem which is above' (Gal.4:26) the heavenly Jerusalem. At this coming of Christ, living believers will be changed, the sleeping saints raised, and so, and in no other way, will be for ever with the Lord. In connection with the purpose that envisages a kingdom on the earth, Matthew 24 must be studied, its time factors (24:15,21,29,30,33) given full place and believed, which will link Matthew 24 with the hope of Israel, and not with the hope of the Church of the present dispensation.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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As one who sees nothing wrong with rightly dividing the word of truth, I don't go out of my way to say what bothers me about other folks / brothers in Christ. We right dividers mainly just want to act as ambassadors of the Gospel of Grace - just as our pattern, Paul, wrote - make known God's will
Ephesians 3:9-10
(KJV Strong's)
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Date predicting is lame - especially when we are told no one knows the hour, etc. There is no prophecy unfolding in this age of grace anyway - it's a mystery period, therefor there is no prophecy mentioned in the OT or prior to the revelation of the mystery Gospel to pull prophecy from. Completed prophecy will begin again when the Church is taken / caught up, and God will complete his promises to Israel.
Do you consider something like just Copy/Pasting a verse, " imparting the truth?" Considering the myriad of interpretations of often just one single verse, I certainly don't. Even Jesus said, "You have heard it said (or, read), thus and so, BUT, I say....." We, of course cannot say what Jesus may have meant in many instances, but we CAN see that just reading a verse may not give us its intended meaning. I feel discussion... and "eloquent" discussion... is paramount.
I try to read a verse for what it says - not what I think someone is trying to say - that's spiritualzing verses essentially. There is no private interpretation needed 2 Pet 1:20. I know that context is key and there are simple rules in reading anything to gain understanding. Let scripture decipher scripture 1 Cor 2:13. And as Coverdale eloquently wrote: "It shall greatly help ye to understand Scripture If thou mark not only what is spoken or written but of whom and to whom, with what words, at what time, Where to what intent with what circumstances, considering what goeth before and what followeth."
Words and sentences are usually easy to understand - I think God knows how to communicate. The Bible was put together so all of God's people could read and learn - no PhD needed. The Flesch Kincaid reading level for the KJV bible is grade 5.8. It's filled with predominantly one and two syllable words - we can all have a crack at it.
Eloquence is not synonymous truth.
The good words you wrote of Cloverdale are basically the old "Inductive Method of Study" we learned way back in school. BTW, private interpretation of Scripture is very normal, and guides most of our lives. All of the Jewish Rabbis interpreted and preached and published their own understandings of specific Scripture known as "Targum." The oft-misquoted verse in the Bible was not speaking of "Scripture", but of "Prophesy."
2 Peter 1:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
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Hi @Willie T
Context is vital to the understanding of any Scripture, I agree, and accompanying dialogue in a forum situation is often needed, but sometimes, according to the nature of the discussion, a response in the form of a verse, which to you says all you have and can say, is enough in itself.
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I am sorry that this is the experience you have had of those who seek to rightly divide the Word of Truth, it has not been my experience though, @Willie T. It is not good to judge all of a particular persuasion, whatever it may be, on the basis of the few you have heard and disagreed with.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Chris
Those 3 words I BOLDED take us right back to showing that "the verse that says it all" is often only each individual's interpretation. As you stated, the verses hypothetically posted were clear TO THE PERSON WHO POSTED. But that does not mean other people saw it the same way.
I think you know how the Westboro Baptists would see Luke 14:26, even if they read the context of the entire chapter.... but is that how you see it? Of course it isn't.
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Typical Bible Class
Instructor: "Brother Jones, will you read Verse #1?"
Brother Jones reads it.
Instructor: "Brother Smith, can you tell us what that verse means?"
Brother Smith: "Just what it says!"
All the Class: "AMEN!!!"
Instructor: "Thank you. Now, Brother Brown, will you read verse #2?"
Instructor: "Brother Jones, will you read Verse #1?"
Brother Jones reads it.
Instructor: "Brother Smith, can you tell us what that verse means?"
Brother Smith: "Just what it says!"
All the Class: "AMEN!!!"
Instructor: "Thank you. Now, Brother Brown, will you read verse #2?"
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OzSpen
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