No need. The Father's name and the Son's name are what matter since we are to call upon them in truth.
Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy
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Rollo Tamasi
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gadar perets says, "The rest we have in Yeshua is not a physical rest from doing hard work all week, but a rest from carrying the burden of our sins and from seeking to be justified by our works."
First off, where in Scripture does it say this?
This should be interesting.
And second, as Christians, we don't carry the burden of our sins, Jesus does.
Everyday, 24 hours a day, forever.
Who told you otherwise?
First off, where in Scripture does it say this?
This should be interesting.
And second, as Christians, we don't carry the burden of our sins, Jesus does.
Everyday, 24 hours a day, forever.
Who told you otherwise?
We don't get that the way you do. We understand the situation in a deeper way. The account shows that even under the Old Covenant, they were guiltless because life and health take precedence over the Sabbath. The disciples were hungry. They were not profaning the day so they could mow their lawns or go to their regular employment or so they can go watch a ball game. Christians who reject the Sabbath break it for unlawful reasons.
Wrong as shown above. Also, the priests were guiltless of profaning the Sabbath because YHWH Himself commanded them to do that work.
You assume too much about Sabbath keepers. We know full well Yeshua lives in us. He is our Master and he told us to go and sin no more. Based on the definition of sin in 1 John 3:4, that means, go and break the law no more. You also assume we seek to be justified by keeping the Sabbath and other laws. We also know full well that our justification and salvation are through faith in Yeshua and not through our own works, but we also know that obedience to any of the Almighty's commandments is a fruit of salvation. As for Yeshua making us to stand, Paul wrote,
"Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your 
for by faith ye stand." (2 Corinthians 1:24)
for by faith ye stand." (2 Corinthians 1:24)It is by faith in Yeshua that we stand, but Paul also wrote that our faith "establishes the law" (Romans 3:31). Sadly, the faith of most Christians abolishes the law.
Yes, we can honor Him on any day, but we cannot work on any day. On one day, work is forbidden. No believer can be apart from the law. We must live within the parameters of the law as the Spirit leads us. If I judge Christians who commit adultery, am I denying that Yeshua is able to make them stand apart from the law? Of course not. You single out the Sabbath, but fail to apply your views to other commandments as well.
We are all guilty of sin when we break any law of YHWH. We are guilty of profaning YHWH's name when we take it in vain. That is why we must confess our sins and repent of them and receive forgiveness through Yeshua's shed blood. Here is James writing to believers;
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
It doesn't matter which law we break. Breaking any law is sin and the law will convince us that we have transgressed. That is why Paul said, "by the law is the knowledge of sin", but praise be to YHWH, He has provided a way for that guilt to be removed through Yeshua's shed blood. When we confess and repent, we are guiltless once again and stand in Messiah Yeshua.Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
I never said we (as believers) carry our burden of sin. Upon receiving Yeshua as Savior, he takes the burden of sin off of us giving us rest from carrying it. As for seeking to be justified and/or saved by the law;
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
The unbearable burden mentioned here is seeking to be saved by the law (Acts 15:1, 11). Galatians 5:1 & 4 speak of the burden or yoke of bondage of seeking to be justified by the law.
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
what do you mean as believers?
You say you are of another faith?
Make up your mind.
And it sounds like you must be carrying your thoughts over from post to post because what you just said here doesn't make it.
Sir, I am not stupid.
What you just said here does not line up with your answer.
You say you are of another faith?
Make up your mind.
And it sounds like you must be carrying your thoughts over from post to post because what you just said here doesn't make it.
Sir, I am not stupid.
What you just said here does not line up with your answer.
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What are you talking about? What I just said "here" IS my answer.
When we were unbelievers, we carried the burden of our sins. When we became believers in Messiah, he took our sins off of us and upon himself. That is why he is called the "sin bearer". It was a burden that we could not bear, but he bore it for us.
I am of another faith because Christianity will not accept me since I reject the trinity and am supposedly fallen from grace because I keep my Father's commandments. The first church I ever attended after being born again, kicked me out because I started keeping the Sabbath. Then another denomination said I was no longer a member of the Body of Christ because I do not believe Yeshua preexisted as a living being. Then, Christians keep telling me I can't be saved unless I accept the trinity. What am I to do? Since Christians will not have me, I will continue to have faith in Messiah Yeshua, but I profess to be a Messianic Hebrew. All the great men of faith from Abraham to Paul were all Hebrews.
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
Moshe Rosen was a great Jew in modern times.
Go read his book and learn how messianic Jews are considered true Christians.
Messianic Jews are trinitarians which is why they are accepted as Christians. All that matters to me is that I am a true believer. I do not need to bear the man-made derogatory name "Christian" to be saved.
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
JesusIsFaithful
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Do reread Matthew 12:1-8 again because Jesus gave 2 examples of saints in the O.T. that DID PROFANE the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the Temple. Jesus was not citing that because they were hungry, that was why they were not profaning the sabbath, because He said that they did PROFANE the sabbath day.
Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
So they were not guiltless because they were hungry; the O.T. saints were guiltless because they were in the Temple for why Jesus said One greater than the Temple was here in testifying why His disciples were guiltless because Jesus was with them.
Reread Matthew 12:1-8 again but with His wisdom. Jesus was defending His disciples by citing saints in the O.T. for being in the Temple for why they were guiltless for profaning the sabbath day.
If you had known this meaning, I will have mercy and not sacrifice, you would not condemned christians for profaning the sabbath day.
You may know that Jesus Christ is in you, BUT you are not seeing why ALL christians are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day because Jesus is Lord over the sabbath day as under the New Covenant, the sabbath day is no longer lord over His people.
So think about what you are doing when you judge others for not keeping the sabbath day because in the spirit of keeping it under the Old Covenant, you are to stone those for not keeping the sabbath day. There is this absence of instructions and commandments in the N.T. about what believers are to do when keeping the sabbath day... and it is because Jesus is Lord over them and not the sabbath day.
If you keep this up, you are basically saying that Jesus Christ in you is not good enough for why you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day and that Jesus is not Lord of the sabbath but the sabbath is Lord over Jesus Christ.
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If, by "God", you mean YHWH, then yes. However, the Son is indeed an "elohim". He is just not the "only true Elohim/God" as he himself said in John 17:3 when he declared his Father to be such.
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They were not guiltless because they were in the “Temple”. The Temple wasn’t even built yet when David ate the showbread. This is referring to the Tabernacle. They were guiltless of eating the showbread which was only for the priests. They were guiltless because they were hungry which takes precedence over the law. Yeshua’s reference to the Temple only applies to the last example he gave of the priests in the Temple. They were blameless because the God of Israel commanded them to do all that work.
“Christ's argument is, that if the temple, and the service of it, excused the priests from blame, in doing things in it on the sabbath day, which otherwise might not be done; then much more might his presence, who was greater than the temple, excuse his disciples from blame in this action of rubbing and eating the ears of corn; which was done to satisfy hunger, and to render them the more capable of performing their ministerial function; and which was of more importance than the service of the priests.” John Gill’s Commentary.
The Temple had nothing to do with them being blameless. If that were true, then Numbers 18:22 would be a useless law since once they entered the Tabernacle they would be guiltless. If someone murdered a priest in the Tabernacle, would he be guiltless because it happened in the Tabernacle? Of course not.
I condemn no one. I educate so that none will be guilty of sin and so that they can receive the blessing of Sabbath rest.
The Sabbath was never lord over the people. It was created to be a blessing, but the rulers of Israel turned it into a burden. If Yeshua is Lord over the Sabbath Day under the New Covenant, then we should obviously keep it holy under the New Covenant, not abolish it.
We are to judge those within the Body of Messiah regarding sin so that the entire Body does not become infected with it. Sadly, much of the Body is already infected with the sin of Sabbath desecration, but it is not too late to restore it to its former glory.
We are NOT guiltless when we break YHWH’s laws unless we break them to preserve life or health. If we do break them and are guilty, we can have our guilt removed through confession and repentance.
pia
Well-Known Member
No, from the Bible.....You state there are laws against acting in the flesh, can't argue with you there......But IN Christ, we have already been forgiven and justified....So we are not under law but under Grace, but of course, there may ALWAYS be consequences.......A fire burns us if we choose to touch it, that is hardly the fires fault ? That's just what fire does...so if we choose to do things, we know can hurt us, then it's on us....
God is Holy, He is my father he deserves them all, i cant live one day without Him or Christ with me. The days are His, He made them for His purpose, so I will leave them to Him.
"Not under the law" means not under its condemnation. However, the fact that we are forgiven and justified is not grounds for licentiousness. We are not free to break any of the other nine negative commandments because we are forgiven and justified. Why are we free to break the only positive commandment?
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). If we substitute the word sin for the definition of sin, verse 15 would read;Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
What then? shall we break the law, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
He does not want to be left with them. That is why He made them for man and gave them to man. His purpose in doing so was to bless us with a physical rest, with time to commune with Him and fellowship with other believers, with time to feed from His Word, and as a sign so we would know who sanctifies us (our Creator, the Creator of the Sabbath). He did not give us that gift to have it thrown back in His face or trampled on.
I already addressed this. Try reading my posts with understanding rather than with blinders of refutation on.
And you talk about me ignoring the point, you know what I am talking about.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Do you know what that means, no more condemnation...
but
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
no longer teh law that convicts men of sin, it is His Spirit, because we are no longer under the law but grace, but those who dont beleieve in Him and what He done walk in guilt and so therefore are condemned,
Heb_9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
You should study this bit
Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
so many still following after the old.
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
God bless
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