Jesus never said he was God Almighty

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APAK

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Of course, the Pharisees did not consider Jesus as God Almighty in spite of what Jesus had said, and that is why they had crucified Him for it.
I would rather believe that the God gave them and the mob this mind as Jesus had to be crucified. Stoning would not suffice.

Bless you,

APAK
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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yet under their Law stoning was the only commandment for blasphemy, not any Roman crucifixion. So we have the conundrum that the Jews could not carry out the sentence prescribed for blasphemy, and at the same time the "Roman" sentence--crucifixion here, not throwing ppl off of cliffs, also Roman--was specifically deemed as not applying, by the Romans, see; they gave a verdict of "not guilty."

And once again, we go to the cause for His crucifixion, the attempted stoning, and the attempted pushing Him off the cliff. Cause and effect. The cause for the effect of His crucifixion and those other attempts on His life was for His words in His claim to deity.

The lack of Christ correcting them of their accusations by claiming that was not what He had meant or even Him denying that He is God is evident in what He had said to the Jews for why they were incited to kill Him.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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I would rather believe that the God gave them and the mob this mind as Jesus had to be crucified. Stoning would not suffice.

Bless you,

APAK

Granted, since it had to be at His choosing from which no one could really take His life away as He was giving His life as a ransom for many.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Matthew 20:28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

It certainly explains the prophesy of Him being pierced by His people to when Israel will finally recognized Him as being their Messiah after all at His return.

Zechariah 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
 
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Naomi25

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@Naomi25

Let me just answer the first paragraph for now of John 10:33-36. It will be enough to chew on, believe me.

Unfortunately, Naomi, we do have to look at the translation of verse John 10:33 into English, carefully.

We cannot get around it. Translators made a big mistake here. It will alter what you believe the verse means, and apparently today you believe what is translated here. The translators did do a great job on verses 34 -36, and not verse 33.

You do understand you have to read verses 34-26 with verse 33 to get the entire meaning? Because what I’ve already said about verse 33 already makes perfect sense when you read verses 34-36 with it. Verse 34-36 make no sense when you view it as it is translated in most Bibles.

(Joh 10:33) The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
(Joh 10:34) Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
(Joh 10:35) If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
(Joh 10:36) do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (ALL ESV)

The KEY word in verse 33 that is not correct is the uppercase ‘God.’ The use of Theos/theos in verses 34-36 were translated CORRECTLY.

(Joh 10:33) Απεκρίθησαν προς αυτόν οι Ιουδαίοι, λέγοντες· Περί καλού έργου δεν σε λιθοβολούμεν, αλλά περί βλασφημίας, και διότι συ άνθρωπος ων κάμνεις σεαυτόν Θεόν. (modern Greek)

Even though this modern Greek version of verse 33 had a capitalized Theos it has no definite article before it (English ‘the’) which would make it ‘God.’ THIS IS A BLATENT MISTRANSLATION.

Since it does not, it should be a lower cased Theos or theos or ‘god.’

In John 1:1 we have the definite article (Greek ‘he/hay’) and it is translated correctly as ‘the Theos’ or ‘God.’ And not theos or ‘god’.

(Joh 1:1) Εν αρχή ήτο ο Λόγος, και ο Λόγος ήτο παρά τω Θεώ, και Θεός ήτο ο Λόγος. (modern Greek)

Two NT examples of where they used ‘god’ correctly instead of God.

(Act 12:22) And the people were shouting, “The voice of a god, and not of a man!”
(Act 12:22) Ο δε λαός επεφώνει· Θεού φωνή και ουχί ανθρώπου.
(Act 28:6) They were waiting for him to swell up or suddenly fall down dead. But when they had waited a long time and saw no misfortune come to him, they changed their minds and said that he was a god.
(Act 28:6) εκείνοι δε επρόσμενον ότι έμελλε να πρησθή ή εξαίφνης να πέση κάτω νεκρός. Αφού όμως επρόσμενον πολλήν ώραν και έβλεπον ότι ουδέν κακόν εγίνετο εις αυτόν, μεταβαλόντες στοχασμόν έλεγον ότι είναι Θεός. (Modern Greek)

John 10:33 should have been translated as ‘a god’ or ‘god.’

Now what did Jesus immediately say to the Pharisees once he knew they called him ‘a god?’ , “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Jesus was lecturing them of being hypocrites and taking the easy way out. He said in the OT, prophets and other in the service of God Almighty were called ‘gods’ and they have no problem believing that, because it was in scripture. So Jesus, already knowing the answer, said to them, are you then blaspheming me because I say I'm the son of God Almighty, higher than the prophets that were called 'gods?' The Pharisees knew they were doing just that....

Naomi, the Pharisees NEVER considered him God Almighty in this passage of text. It is crystal clear. They understood what Jesus was saying to them, do you?

You must read all the verses collectively to know what is being said here. You cannot discard any of them and hone in on ONE mistranslated word and say eureka this is the only meaning here and then the erroneous snowball effect soon ensues.

It would make NO SENSE if the Pharisees called him the God Almighty with Jesus’ reply. Jesus’ response was a reflect of what others in the OT were called. If we are to have break thought in understanding here Naomi, you have to at least consider what I’m saying here.

Now verse 36 is correctly translated as the son of the God with a definite article in front of Theos.

(Joh 10:36) εκείνον, τον οποίον ο Πατήρ ηγίασε και απέστειλεν εις τον κόσμον, σεις λέγετε ότι βλασφημείς, διότι είπον, Υιός του Θεού είμαι; (Modern Greek)

There was no waving done here, or just my own opinion voiced here. It is what scripture says to me.

Naomi, I cannot make my case any clearer for you regarding John 10:33

Bless you,

APAK

Well APAK. I think you're wrong. I really, really think you are wrong. In how you see it, in how you read it. But...I think we are at a place where I will not change your mind, and you will not change my mind. So...it's probably time we dropped it! I want to thank you for discussing a pretty touchy subject calmly so we could actually talk about it...that was pretty awesome, and I look forward to other conversations with you!
 

pia

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and here's why it's not the SAME body. this body walks through the walls,
He certainly did it when He came among the disciples a couple of times, and when Thomas saw Him ( after disbelieving the first visit ) he was offered by Jesus to come and touch Him, to put his fingers in the holes in His hands and in His side, if it wasn't the same body, then what ?.......Whatever replaced His blood ( which some believe to be the very Glory of God) is obviously able to empower Him to take whatever form He desires, even pure light.....just because we can't comprehend it, doesn't mean we just reject it......Goodness me, no one could be saved if we all took that stance..
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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John 10:
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

As you can see not only did Jesus claim to be God but that those listening understood that he was claiming to be God.

I believe You are not listening to this Scripture.Jesus didn't say he was God.The word that's translated "one" means united, which is reasonable since in previous Scripture in this chapter has shown that the authority Jesus has was given to him by his Father who is God.All Jesus was saying was that he and his Father were united in a common purpose.Also those men who wanted to stone Jesus they were pharasees his enemies who constantly assumed things Jesus didn't say.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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bbyrd009

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Per the topic of this thread, Jesus did say He was God Almighty in so many words on several occasions as that was why the Jews were trying to end Jesus on several attempts until He allowed Himself to be arrested, and crucified in giving His life as a ransom for many.
in your opinion maybe, yes, only you cannot Quote that see, that is just what you want to believe
you might ask yourself why you cannot Quote "I am Jehovah" if that were in fact the truth
i mean what, God being modest or whatever?
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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in your opinion maybe, yes, only you cannot Quote that see, that is just what you want to believe
you might ask yourself why you cannot Quote "I am Jehovah" if that were in fact the truth
i mean what, God being modest or whatever?

Ever heard the expression, "missing the forest for all the trees"?

If people want to be a stickler against the obvious, then we can say that Jesus did not deny that He is God nor did He rebuke the people for saying so.
 
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bbyrd009

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Ever heard the expression, "missing the forest for all the trees"?

If people want to be a stickler against the obvious, then we can say that Jesus did not deny that He is God nor did He rebuke the people for saying so.
why do you call Me good?

fwiw ppl were arguing about this 40 years ago, and i'm sure they will be arguing about it 40 years from now, too. The truth will not change; only ppls perspectives ever change here.

You can examine why you like the idea of Jesus being the Father so much, what that does for you iow, or there are some other exercises you might do, but see that Christ never claims to be the Father, and in fact does rebuke ppl for assuming that, etc. bc it misrepresents the relationship, and encourages the worship of Christ--Who "hid from them," worshippers--as Nehushtan.

that guy who taught you all about "Great Tribulation" capital T, and Rapture capital R, surely gave you the sermon about Nehushtan already i guess right
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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why do you call Me good?

Jesus was not denying that He was good. He had asked him "why" he had called Him good.

The guy was seeing Jesus as just a man, a great master, but just a man when he had addressed Him as good Master in seeing Him as a good teacher to answer his question. Jesus acknowledged that he sees Him as good, and wanted to lift his sights higher to Whom He was/is before answering his question.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

This conversation changed to Jesus revealing what he had lacked and that was his willingness in giving up everything he had to follow Him and he went away sad from which He had explained to the disciples about how hard it was for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

So while the rich guy was seeking to save himself claiming he had kept the law from his youth, he had failed to see Jesus as God as being the only One that could save Him apart from the law.
 
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bbyrd009

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Jesus was not denying that He was good. He had asked him "why" he had called Him good.
"...no one is good except the Father" argues differently, i think. You might reply to the bottom of the post, the part you are neglecting at the moment, for more on this. But that is up to you, ok, if that is something you are not ready to address, then so be it
 

JesusIsFaithful

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"...no one is good except the Father" argues differently, i think. You might reply to the bottom of the post, the part you are neglecting at the moment, for more on this. But that is up to you, ok, if that is something you are not ready to address, then so be it

That is why I rely on the KJV and so we are at an impasse.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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why do you call Me good?

fwiw ppl were arguing about this 40 years ago, and i'm sure they will be arguing about it 40 years from now, too. The truth will not change; only ppls perspectives ever change here.

You can examine why you like the idea of Jesus being the Father so much, what that does for you iow, or there are some other exercises you might do, but see that Christ never claims to be the Father, and in fact does rebuke ppl for assuming that, etc. bc it misrepresents the relationship, and encourages the worship of Christ--Who "hid from them," worshippers--as Nehushtan.

that guy who taught you all about "Great Tribulation" capital T, and Rapture capital R, surely gave you the sermon about Nehushtan already i guess right

It is true that Christ never claimed to be the Father, and yet He did claim that They were One. There was no incident where any one had addressed Him as the Father for Jesus to rebuke, but as for worshiping Him, He certainly did not stop that either.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Was Thomas dragged out and stoned to death? Did Jesus rebuked him right then and there? No to both questions.

Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

There is no following verse where Jesus came back and rebuked them for doing that. So..... Jesus is God.
 
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