"I never knew you: depart from me, you that work inquity."

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VictoryinJesus

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To be saved one must obey God by believing, repentance, confession, being baptized. Then after becoming a Christian, one must do good works and live faithfully unto death [Rom 10:9-10; Acts 2:38; Eph 2:10; Rev 2:10]

Again, the Jews were lost for not having obeyed the righteous commands of God, Rom 10:3, they had not obeyed by believing, confessing, had not obeyed the gospel. God has made it clear in His word what men are to do in order to be saved and remained saved. God has not left us in the dark concerning His will for man to do.


Who is being spoken to in Matthew? Is it before His death and resurrection or after?

Matthew 23:2-7
[2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. [5] But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, [6] And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, [7] And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

"do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not" were they baptized, did they make confession, did they repent in sackcloth and ashes, did they labour? What did they neglect to do??

Mark 12:30-31
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. [31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

 

Ernest T. Bass

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Who is being spoken to in Matthew?
Christ is teaching His disciples, Matthew 5:1-2

VictoryinJesus said:
Is it before His death and resurrection or after?

Before.

Neither questioned asked changes the stipulation Christ put on one in entering into the kingdom, that being doing the will of the Father. Not doing the will of the Father is disobedience, unrighteousness and we know the disobedient, unrighteous are lost and will not enter into the kingdom..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? " (1 Cor 6:9).
Therefore one is unrighteous and remains unrighteous until he doeth the will of the Father. On the other hand, the righteous are the ones who are doing the will of the Father and can enter into the kingdom.

Each one of us are either righteous or unrighteous before God. Who are the ones seen as righteous? The ones who do or do not do God's will?

The Pharisees in Mt 23 were not doing the will of the Father but followed their own traditions.
Mark 12:30 when Mark says "love God" love here is not a mere emotion felt and nothing more..."If ye love me, keep my commandments" and "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him" and "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:15-23
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Christ is teaching His disciples, Matthew 5:1-2



Before.

Neither questioned asked changes the stipulation Christ put on one in entering into the kingdom, that being doing the will of the Father. Not doing the will of the Father is disobedience, unrighteousness and we know the disobedient, unrighteous are lost and will not enter into the kingdom..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? " (1 Cor 6:9).
Therefore one is unrighteous and remains unrighteous until he doeth the will of the Father. On the other hand, the righteous are the ones who are doing the will of the Father and can enter into the kingdom.

Each one of us are either righteous or unrighteous before God. Who are the ones seen as righteous? The ones who do or do not do God's will?

The Pharisees in Mt 23 were not doing the will of the Father but followed their own traditions.
Mark 12:30 when Mark says "love God" love here is not a mere emotion felt and nothing more..."If ye love me, keep my commandments" and "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him" and "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." John 14:15-23

The will of the Father is for us to believe in the Son. It is the Lord's work. It His obedience. His mercy. His labour. And it is His fruit of the Spirit. The Spirit does the work in and through us. So don't be mistaken; it is no longer man's work but the work of the Spirit. That is what is manifested as "works". Peace, love, joy, and forgiveness, long suffering and patience. Love for God and neighbour.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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The will of the Father is for us to believe in the Son. It is the Lord's work. It His obedience. His mercy. His labour. And it is His fruit of the Spirit. The Spirit does the work in and through us. So don't be mistaken; it is no longer man's work but the work of the Spirit. That is what is manifested as "works". Peace, love, joy, and forgiveness, long suffering and patience. Love for God and neighbour.

God has told man to obey by believing repenting confessing and submitting to water baptism. These are not things God obeys for men... God does not have to obey, HE is not lost. Yet men are lost and men are accountable to doing what God says. Therefore if I do not believe, then I will be held accountable for my own unbelief and God is not culpable for not believing for me.

Mt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

It is man doing God's will and not God obeying His own will for man.
 
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Helen

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What are the righteous commands of God?

Love God and love neighbour...
Romans 13:8 " Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Don't get bogged down by those who are still struggling to fulfil laws.

Stay free and as Paul says " Be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." If people still want to "add to" the finished work of Christ..let them...but don't come under their fruitless struggle . x
 
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bbyrd009

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The will of the Father is for us to believe in the Son. It is the Lord's work. It His obedience. His mercy. His labour. And it is His fruit of the Spirit. The Spirit does the work in and through us. So don't be mistaken; it is no longer man's work but the work of the Spirit. That is what is manifested as "works". Peace, love, joy, and forgiveness, long suffering and patience. Love for God and neighbour.
ok, but you will be judged for your works regardless, too many places to list.
So put it on the Spirit if you like, but it is us who will be judged.

and wadr i doubt "but i said i was following Jesus, and that i loved love" is going to cut it
many will cry "LordLord" etc
 

VictoryinJesus

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ok, but you will be judged for your works regardless, too many places to list.
So put it on the Spirit if you like, but it is us who will be judged.

and wadr i doubt "but i said i was following Jesus, and that i loved love" is going to cut it
many will cry "LordLord" etc

Judged for your works whether they be of Christ(God), or of man. Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. [21] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Any work outside of Christ is only noise, even if it is building an orphanage, "good deeds" will not be the sweet savour found only in the son. I'm surprised, I thought this is what you meant by made to eat grass:

Daniel 4:30-31
[30] The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty? [31] While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying , O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.


Daniel 4:37
[37] Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

So which is it, man's work or God's work? Whose works are truth?
 
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bbyrd009

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So which is it, man's work or God's work? Whose works are truth?
i'll sleep on this, but i cannot find anywhere where God's works are judged, see; only ours. Imo Neb was making a statement about pride v humility, more than "whose works?"

bc ultimately we are all expressions of God, right, even Hitler, in some sense.
The diff being we might change our minds correctly, whereas it could be argued that Hitler did not; even though he surely would have argued that he had. Iow his language here would mirror yours, seems to me. "I'm doing God's will."

"state that you love Jesus" is not "pick up your cross and follow," to restate it.
 

VictoryinJesus

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pride v humility, more than "whose works?"

But isn't that it: pride v humility. are they not works? Either the flesh rules, or the Spirit. Romans 8:5
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Love God and love neighbour...
Romans 13:8 " Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Don't get bogged down by those who are still struggling to fulfil laws.

Stay free and as Paul says " Be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." If people still want to "add to" the finished work of Christ..let them...but don't come under their fruitless struggle . x
Your position is one can live in sin (break God's law) and still be saved?
 

bbyrd009

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But isn't that it: pride v humility. are they not works?
i would have said 'no,' but i guess they could be fruit, ya
Either the flesh rules, or the Spirit. Romans 8:5
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
i'd like to suggest that we consider these a divider between certain ppl, when a better line might be drawn through each of us. Iow speaking of myself, either the flesh rules, or the spirit. And my justifications would be irrelevant in that context; i can say that i am doing God's will all i like, doesn't mean i am.
images

And i might actually even be doing God's will at other times, and be led by the spirit, certainly, but that is no guarantee that i would be in even my next decision; that is up to me!

This notion that i might make some statement or verbal commitment and then the Spirit will just take over my will and everything i do after that will be from the Spirit is very dangerous imo. Obviously self-serving at the least i guess
 
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bbyrd009

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Your position is one can live in sin (break God's law) and still be saved?
takes care of all that pesky confession that would be required otherwise, i guess-
-if you can't do any wrong, obviously then you don't have to confess.

my dad finished his life that way; it was very sad to me
 

APAK

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takes care of all that pesky confession that would be required otherwise, i guess-
-if you can't do any wrong, obviously then you don't have to confess.

my dad finished his life that way; it was very sad to me
Sorry for that....APAK
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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takes care of all that pesky confession that would be required otherwise, i guess-
-if you can't do any wrong, obviously then you don't have to confess.

my dad finished his life that way; it was very sad to me
How could salvation be by 'grace only' if one did not have to keep Christ's laws or if there were no law at all?

If there were no law, then there would be no sin and if there was no sin there would be no need for grace.
 
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bbyrd009

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How could salvation be by 'grace only' if one did not have to keep Christ's laws or if there were no law at all?

If there were no law, then there would be no sin and if there was no sin there would be no need for grace.
ya, not sure how "under the law" got turned into "keeping the law" myself; they are two different concepts

both Christ and Paul go into this at length; but i guess if they cannot be heard then we won't be either
 
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VictoryinJesus

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How could salvation be by 'grace only' if one did not have to keep Christ's laws or if there were no law at all?

If there were no law, then there would be no sin and if there was no sin there would be no need for grace.

When I was in my twenties I was baptized in a church, totally submerged before a congregation. It felt good, like it had fulfilled a major part or role of performance that needed to be done before I could be counted as a member of the body. I said the prayer. I confessed. Every one celebrated and the date is written in my bible. Nothing changed.

In my forties something else fell upon me that did change everything: I was “washed by the Word”, made clean. And I was baptized by fire from above, the Holy Ghost. Washed by the word; to be cut (pruned) in the heart. God choose the day of my birth both times: when I was born into this world and when I was taken out of this world...born new of Spirit belonging to (a new creation).

Which do you prefer the ceremony or genuine repentance and turning? Does it really matter which you prefer when a person's walk is between them and God? Especially if what you judge is by the outward man. God searches the heart. He does it.

John 1:26-27
[26] John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; [27] He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

"I baptize with water" is important to the "whom ye know not".

Acts 11:15-18
[15] And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. [16] Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. [17] Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? [18] When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 22:16
[16] And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

John 13:8-10
[8] Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. [9] Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. [10] Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

1 Corinthians 6:11
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 6:4
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

"Buried with him by baptism into death" sounds like it a supernatural work and He decides, who and when He gives life.
 
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