Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

bbyrd009 said:

imo regardless of our choice of terms or definitions, our "free gift" seems to come with a cost, i guess

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The clock is ticking

BreadOfLife said:

EVERYBODY'S sins have been paid for. This is what Redemption means - to PAY for.
NOT everybody's sins have been forgiven. That takes our cooperation. through repentance.

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Right, but not everyone will believe and accept the free gift of salvation. BOL, their sins have been forgiven only for those who have believed. Take James 2:14-26 for example. Eph 2:8-9 contradicts James 2. Why would we work to keep our salvation if we didn't work for it upon belief? James 2:10 is proof, less everyone fall short and go to hell? Nobody would be in heaven.

BreadOfLife said:

If you believe that you are automatically forgiven of all of your future sins without repenting of them just because you are a Christian - you will have a rude awakening come Judgement Day . . .

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Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

BreadOfLife said:

Grace is what SAVES us. If we lose that - then we have LOST salvation.

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To the reilgious yes because they never had saving Grace.

BreadOfLife said:

No - only verses Matt. 7:15-20 are about false prophets.As I educated you before - verses 21-23 are about false disciples . .

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Where in the Greek do you see the word disciple?

BreadOfLife said:

No - false PROPHETS are the wolves because they lead people astray.False disciples are goats.

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Ok, now you've jumped from Matt 7 to Matt 25. There is no such thing as false disciples BOL.

Matt 7
Sheep (believers in Christ)
Wolves (nonbelievers who never came to faith in Christ)

Matt 25
Sheep (believers in Christ)
Goats (nonbelievers who never came to faith in Christ)

BreadOfLife said:

We choose Hell when we choose to disobey Christ. By disobeying His Church - you disobey HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

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We choose hell when we choose to not believe in the resurrection, Rom 10:9.

BreadOfLife said:

YOU said: "The one that believes in the finished work of the cross and preaches Grace salvation is right."

This is absolutely incorrect because I know DOZENS of people who believe this - yet they ALSO believe that abortion and homosexual union are good and necessary things. these are FALSE disciples. Simply "believing" is NOT enough. It requires our cooperation (obedience) with God's grace.

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God knows who His children are, and they didn't come from any religion, that's for sure.

BreadOfLife said:

And AGAIN, my Scripturally-bankrupt friend - oil is the MEANS of anointing - just as mud was the means of curing the Blind Man in John 9.

God doesn't "need" tangible instruments to do His will. HOWEVER, in His understanding and mercy - He recognizes that WE, as tangible human beings DO . . .

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It's gonna be a glorious day when God separates the sheep from the religius at rapture. I can't wait.

Heb 13:8 said:

Right, but not everyone will believe and accept the free gift of salvation. BOL, their sins have been forgiven only for those who have believed. Take James 2:14-26 for example. Eph 2:8-9 contradicts James 2. Why would we work to keep our salvation if we didn't work for it upon belief? James 2:10 is proof, less everyone fall short and go to hell? Nobody would be in heaven.
And you still don't get it.

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Regardless of how much you "believe" - your cooperation with God's grace is necessary for salvation. If you STOP cooperating, you LOSE it.

Our salvation is conditional on our cooperation - and Scripture is adamantly CLEAR on this (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Heb 13:8 said:

Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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This doesn't mean that our future sins are automatically forgiven without repentance.
It is simply saying that nothing can tear us away from God - now or in the future, EXCEPT our own will.

Heb 13:8 said:

To the reilgious yes because they never had saving Grace.

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No - it apples to EVERYBODY. Beside - it's not YOUR call to say if a person had saving grace or not.
Your arrogance is astounding . . .

Heb 13:8 said:

Where in the Greek do you see the word disciple?

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Nowhere.
I see the word "EVERYONE" - which means it is NOT just speaking about false prophets in verses 21-23.

NOT that difficult to figure out . . .

Heb 13:8 said:

Ok, now you've jumped from Matt 7 to Matt 25. There is no such thing as false disciples BOL.
Matt 7
Sheep (believers in Christ)
Wolves (nonbelievers who never came to faith in Christ)
Matt 25
Sheep (believers in Christ)
Goats (nonbelievers who never came to faith in Christ)

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Matt. 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’."
(EVERYONE)

Heb 13:8 said:

We choose hell when we choose to not believe in the resurrection, Rom 10:9.

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Which is DISOBEDIENCE.

Heb 13:8 said:

God knows who His children are, and they didn't come from any religion, that's for sure.

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Christianity is a religion, Einstein . . .

Heb 13:8 said:

It's gonna be a glorious day when God separates the sheep from the religius at rapture. I can't wait.

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No such thing as a "Rapture". that is a man made invention that came about from the pulpit of John Nelson Darby in the 1830's. NONE of your Protestant Fathers believed in this fairy tale . . .[/QUOTE]

BreadOfLife said:

your cooperation with God's grace is necessary for salvation.

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No BOL, your cooperation with God's grace is necessary for sanctification.

BreadOfLife said:

This doesn't mean that our future sins are automatically forgiven without repentance.
It is simply saying that nothing can tear us away from God - now or in the future, EXCEPT our own will.

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Does your own will produce death? Are you following demons when you follow your own will?

Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

BreadOfLife said:

EXCEPT our own will

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Rom 8:33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself.

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

BreadOfLife said:

Beside - it's not YOUR call to say if a person had saving grace or not.

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Right, only God knows who has saving Grace. Only God knows who are truly born again and who are religious actors.

BreadOfLife said:

Matt. 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’." (EVERYONE)

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lol

BreadOfLife said:

Christianity is a religion, Einstein . . .

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No, Christ is love not religion.

Amazon.com: Joshua: Tony Goldwyn, F. Murray Abraham, Jon Purdy, Brad Mirman: Amazon Digital Services LLC

BreadOfLife said:

No such thing as a "Rapture". that is a man made invention that came about from the pulpit of John Nelson Darby in the 1830's. NONE of your Protestant Fathers believed in this fairy tale . . .

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1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 penned by Paul and John. God bless

BreadOfLife said:

Well, I believe that Scripture disagrees with you on that - but I hope we can have many fruitful and charitable conversations about it . . .

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Good morning BreadofLife.
You do not think that God's word is the final authority? Yes, we have human beings (imperfect) giving us their teachings which is, of course a gift given by God, among all the other gifts He gives to further His Kingdom but, I must say...we NEED to check these scriptures even after (especially) a sermon or a bible study. The Holy Spirit gives us discernment. My own Pastor had to re-cant something he said awhile back and even said "this is why you need to read over every verse he preaches on." People cannot be our foundation, it will crumble every time. There are way to many erroneous teachers out there. The N.T. is packed full of warnings about them as well. Context is huge to me or I cannot put it all together to make sense out of.
Looking forward to peaceful, loving convo's!
Have a lovely day Bread!

Nancy said:

Good morning BreadofLife.
You do not think that God's word is the final authority? Yes, we have human beings (imperfect) giving us their teachings which is, of course a gift given by God, among all the other gifts He gives to further His Kingdom but, I must say...we NEED to check these scriptures even after (especially) a sermon or a bible study. The Holy Spirit gives us discernment. My own Pastor had to re-cant something he said awhile back and even said "this is why you need to read over every verse he preaches on." People cannot be our foundation, it will crumble every time. There are way to many erroneous teachers out there. The N.T. is packed full of warnings about them as well. Context is huge to me or I cannot put it all together to make sense out of.
Looking forward to peaceful, loving convo's!
Have a lovely day Bread!

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Hi Nancy -
The Scriptures are definitely a main source of Authority. However - not only is the entire word of God NOT encapsulated on the pages of Scripture - Jesus Himself gave supreme earthly Authority to His Church. He promised His Church that WHATEVER it ordained on earth wold also be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:19, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

He guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15). He doesn't give that guarantee to the individual believer. That's why we have tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering groups that ALL teach different doctrines while ALL claiming to have the "Truth." There can't be tens of thousands of opposing truths because God is not the author of confusion.

Nowhere in Scripture do we read that Scripture itself is our "final" or "sole" Authority.
However, Scripture DOES make that distinction about His Church. Here is what the Bible says about Christ's Church:
- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

BreadOfLife said:

Hi Nancy -
The Scriptures are definitely a main source of Authority. However - not only is the entire word of God NOT encapsulated on the pages of Scripture - Jesus Himself gave supreme earthly Authority to His Church. He promised His Church that WHATEVER it ordained on earth wold also be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:19, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

He guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15). He doesn't give that guarantee to the individual believer. That's why we have tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering groups that ALL teach different doctrines while ALL claiming to have the "Truth." There can't be tens of thousands of opposing truths because God is not the author of confusion.

Nowhere in Scripture do we read that Scripture itself is our "final" or "sole" Authority.
However, Scripture DOES make that distinction about His Church. Here is what the Bible says about Christ's Church:
- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

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John 5:37-44 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41“I do not accept glory from human beings, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God ?

Heb 13:8 said:

John 5:37-44 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41“I do not accept glory from human beings, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God ?

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This passage says more to support Catholic teaching than any Protestant teaching.

First of all - it says NOTHING about Sola Scriptura.
Secondly - it corresponds BEAUTIFULLY with the next chapter in John's Gospel in the Bread of Life Discourse.
John 6:63
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, YOU DO NOT HAVE LIFE WITHIN YOU. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

bbyrd009 said:

and where Paul verifies "keep the law," what about that?

also, you might be construed as saying 'i don't have to keep the speed limit" et al, which i doubt is what you are really saying, could you comment on that? ty

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Yeah, why would Jesus say keep the law when nobody can't. Only you can answer that

Ernest T. Bass said:

One is not a sheep of Christ until they first do what Christ says....My sheep hear my voice and they follow me (John 10:27). One therefore cannot be a sheep of Christ nor enter the kingdom without first doing what the Lord says to do.

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And that's what believers do, they hear his voice and follow Jesus. They depend on the finished work of the cross to keep them saved, not works or the law. God bles

BreadOfLife said:

This passage says more to support Catholic teaching than any Protestant teaching.

First of all - it says NOTHING about Sola Scriptura.
Secondly - it corresponds BEAUTIFULLY with the next chapter in John's Gospel in the Bread of Life Discourse.
John 6:63
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, YOU DO NOT HAVE LIFE WITHIN YOU. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

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Right, in this instance (John 6:54) flesh and blood are figurative language for the finished work of the cross.

Matt 26:26-29 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” 27Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

God bless

Heb 13:8 said:

Yeah, why would Jesus say keep the law when nobody can't.

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? i never said keep the law perfectly; we have a remedy now for when you cannot. But "don't even bother" is not it

Heb 13:8 said:

Only you can answer that

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? sorry? Christ, Paul, James, Peter, they all answer this just fine. Who do you wanna hear it from?
or wadr to put that a better way, which prophet would you like to ignore today?
no offense

Heb 13:8 said:

And that's what believers do, they hear his voice and follow Jesus.

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(one of these things
is not like the other...)
All therefore, whatever they bid you observe, that observe and do: but do not ye according to their works: for they say, and do not.

one of these things just doesn't belong, Heb.
Which one

Heb 13:8 said:

And that's what believers do, they hear his voice and follow Jesus. They depend on the finished work of the cross to keep them saved, not works or the law. God bles

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Again, by the wording you used you are still appearing to attempt to make one a believer before he hears and follows Christ...which is not possible.

Those already believers must do good works (Ephesians 2:10) keep Christ's works (Revelation 2:26) remain faithful unto death (Revelation 2:10) else they will be lost.

bbyrd009 said:

? i never said keep the law perfectly; we have a remedy now for when you cannot. But "don't even bother" is not it
? sorry? Christ, Paul, James, Peter, they all answer this just fine. Who do you wanna hear it from?
or wadr to put that a better way, which prophet would you like to ignore today?
no offense

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no ofense taken, lol well, wouldn't you rather follow Jesu than the law. depend on Jesus rather than the law god bless

bbyrd009 said:

(one of these thingsjust doesn't belong, Heb.Which one

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teh one where we work to keep ourselves saved?

Ernest T. Bass said:

Again, by the wording you used you are still appearing to attempt to make one a believer before he hears and follows Christ...which is not possible.

Those already believers must do good works (Ephesians 2:10) keep Christ's works (Revelation 2:26) remain faithful unto death (Revelation 2:10) else they will be lost.

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You mean like the thief on the cross who just believed? Ernest, works has to do with sanctification, not keeping your salvation. It is finished at the cross. So many trying to earn their way to heaven. and what will Jesus say to those who worked for it. So many go to church and do good deeds and do not have the son. He will say I never knew u

1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

God bl

AMEN @Heb 13:8 Well said!!

Heb 13:8 said:

no ofense taken, lol well, wouldn't you rather follow Jesu than the law. depend on Jesus rather than the law god bless

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so you need more Quotes from Jesus on that or what

Heb 13:8 said:

teh one where we work to keep ourselves saved?

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saved lol. Get a new def of saved Heb, if you know what's good for you

bbyrd009 said:

so you need more Quotes from Jesus on that or what

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nah i have his blood i'm good on quotes. ty

Heb 13:8 said:

nah i have his blood i'm good on quotes. ty

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ok, bye then; that was "Quotes" btw, but i understand

blood is what you need for the law alright--but you aren't under any law, huh.

46"Why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord,' but don't do what I tell you?

22According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Heb 13:8 said:

You mean like the thief on the cross who just believed? Ernest, works has to do with sanctification, not keeping your salvation. It is finished at the cross. So many trying to earn their way to heaven. and what will Jesus say to those who worked for it. So many go to church and do good deeds and do not have the son. He will say I never knew u

1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

God bl

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The thief has always been a faulty argument for those that push the man made faith only teaching for:

1) the thief is not an example of NT salvation (Hebrews 9:16-17). At the time Christ promised the thief he would be in paradise, both were alive and under the OT law of Moses. The NT gospel requires a belief that God (1) hath raised (past tense) Christ from the dead (Romans 10:9) and (2) requires a baptism into the death of Christ (Romans 6:3-4). Again, at the time Christ promised the thief would be in paradise, Christ had not yet died, nor been buried nor resurrected making these two NT requirements impossible for the thief. So the thief was not accountable to these two NT requirements for he did not live under the NT gospel as we today do live under the NT therefore we are are required to do these two things.

2) it is an assumption the thief never was obedient. The thief could have been of those of Mark 1:5 who was baptized of John, was a disciple of John for awhile but later fell away into the life of crime. The Bible does not say one way or the other about the thief's past life if he had or had not been obedient to John's baptism.

3) Matthew 9:6 when Christ was "ON EARTH" He had authority to forgive sins of those whom He thought was deserving as the thief. Yet Christ left earth some 2000 years ago leaving behind His NT gospel as His authority for men today and His NT gospel requires men to believe (John 8:24) repent (Luke 13:3 confess (Matthew 10:32-33) be baptized (Mark 16:16) in order to be saved. Then after one i saved he is to to good works (Ephesians 2:10) keep Christ's works (Revelation 10:28) be faithful unto death (Revelation 2:10). Since Christ is not 'on earth' today personally forgiving sins apart from His NT gospel, so no one can make the claim they are forgiven, saved in the same manner as the thief.

The 'thief argument' never has had any validity.



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Under the NT obedient works (belief, repentance, confession & submitting to baptism) are necessary to become a Christian. And once one becomes a Christian he must do be active in doing good works God has before ordained Christians to do. Works therefore are both necessary to become a Christian and remain one. No one can become a Christian, be void of good works required by God (Ephesians 2:10) and remain in a saved state. (Matthew 25:31-46).


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Many have been mislead about obedience to God in thinking is one is working to be obedient he is trying to earn salvation. God's free gift of salvation comes with the condition man obey God's will and simply meeting a condition on a free gift does not, cannot earn the free gift. Grace, charis means favor extended, favor returned. God showed favor to man by sending Christ to die for man's sins, man returns the favor by being obedient to Christ (Hebrews 5:9). There are many examples in the Bible of God's grace having conditions and meeting the conditions did not earn anything. God extended favor, men returned the favor and returning favor earns nothing.