bbyrd009
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by the Bible, btw, not the blind; the blind cannot confuse anything
to a one-eyed man
What is different in Acts 15 and Acts 21?
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to a one-eyed man
***
Thanks for your input but I do not see where you can say you are keeping the law. After the encounter with the rich man Jesus' Apostles asked Him who then can be saved? Perhaps you should go back and read what Jesus told them.
Matt 19:25-26
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
NKJV -- pay special notice in the words "with men this is impossible" so don't try to tell me you are doing the impossible.
Why do you limit God's power? If God's shed blood on the cross did not pay for our sins of the flesh, past sins, present sins, and future sins then is was not a finished work of God. It would leave final salvation in the hands of men and if so, no one would ever be saved. You may think you are keeping His commandments but why? Are you a Jew under the Law of Moses? Wasn't He talking to Jews who were under the covenants made to them which included the law? Didn't God say, through the prophets that man's righteousness was as filthy as dirty rags?
Many on forums make the claim that they are keeping the law of Moses but are not. Are you circumcised, a requirement under the Law? Oh, I get it, you can keep the laws you want to and forget the rest.
I thank God, always, for not leaving me to place my faith in religious men and their ideas. Again I say that those in religion seek to please god by doing religious works to pay for them. This is an affront to God who has already paid for them. It is the sin of unbelief. Man must come to God believing in what Jesus did on the cross and not in what they do to pay for the trip.
Helen
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I like that...very well said.
Yes we do them...but if we think that it makes us more righteous...we are misguided.
We do good works because of the joy we have inside...His joy and His love.
bbyrd009
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? i am not required by law to get circumcised, HR.
And neither am i required by the Decalogue, from which our law descends.
As to the rest i'll sleep on it, but tbh imo you are still evading the Scriptures i have posted,
and most likely we have both said our says i guess
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
I did in fact answer your question in my last post. It seems that in your haste to disagree with my comments you missed it.
"So why were the Jews angry with Paul and James? Because they heard wrong about Paul. It's as simple as that, (see Acts 21:24)." What is different in Acts 15 and Acts 21?
Notice that Paul does not protest what James says in Acts 21:24. It's quite to the contrary. Paul does exactly as James suggests.
Wrong. The "gospel of the kingdom" is the same gospel preached to the whole world.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Galatians was written to Gentiles. Proof:
Gal 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.
Paul was dealing with Judaizing teachers who encouraged these gentiles to add to the gospel. Again, James and Paul agreed that they would deal with Jews differently than gentiles. I already mentioned the following, but here's a little reminder that Paul agreed:
Act 16:3 Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.
1Co 9:19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
1Co 9:23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.
***
You still evade the real question by offering your rational as to the issue of the Jews who believed Jesus was their Messiah and king and Paul's gospel of grace for the whole world by insisting that those Jews were aware of the gospel of grace that did not include the law of Moses (as Paul taught). If that is so then the question is still unanswered, why did they only want to kill Paul????????????
IMO, you have two gospels in your reply, one for the Jews under the law and one for the Gentiles under grace.
I have a study on the book of James on this forum and the facts that James gave to support works were in error. But again you will try to explain them away so that you can have a blended gospel of faith + works.
Since you are so sure that the message James taught and the same message that Paul taught then why was there a disagreement????
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
I haven't evaded a single thing. They were aware of the Gospel of grace as I've proven many times before. Again, Peter speaking says:
Act 15:11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
I did in fact answer this question two times now. Here comes #3:
"So why were the Jews angry with Paul and James? Because they heard wrong about Paul. It's as simple as that, (see Acts 21:24)."
Notice that Paul does not protest what James says in Acts 21:24. It's quite to the contrary. Paul does exactly as James suggests.
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 – many Protestants err in their understanding of what Paul means by “works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul’s mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the “works of the law.” Here is the proof:
James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 – Paul’s phrase for “works of the law” in the Greek is “ergon nomou” which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent (“hrvt ysm”) meaning “deeds of the law,” or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use “ergon nomou.” He uses “ergois agathois.” Therefore, Paul’s “works of the law” and James’ “works” are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
Rom. 3:29 – Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking “Or is God the God of the Jews only?” It does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 4:9-17 – Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”
Rom. 9:31-32 – righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, “works of law” does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 11:6,11 – justification is no longer based on “works” of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.
Rom. 15:9-12 – Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, “works of law” are no longer required.
Acts 13:39 – Luke also confirms this by providing that we have been “freed from the law of Moses.” This is the “works of the law” from which we have been freed.
Rom. 3:20,28 – in addition to the Mosaic law, as stated above, “works of the law” can also refer to anything that makes God a debtor to us. This is because law requires payment, but grace is a free gift from God. Therefore, faith must be behind every good work in order for it to be a work of grace. If not, it is a work of debt, and we cannot obligate God to do anything for us.
Rom. 4:3-4 – Paul refers to works apart from God’s grace. We do not obligate God to give us grace like an employee obligates his employer to pay wages. Faith in Christ must be behind our good works in order for it to be considered a work of grace; otherwise, it is a work of law or obligation.
Rom. 6:23 – this is why Paul says the “wages” of sin is death. Eternal life is a free gift from God. We cannot obligate God to pay us for our works; otherwise, we are in a system of law, not a system of grace.
Gal. 6:8-9 – the earnings referred to here are from God’s grace. It is a free gift, not an obligation. This underscores that our relationship with God is Father/son and daughter, not employer/employee.
Eph. 2:8-9 – we have been saved by grace through faith, not because of “works,” lest anyone boast. This much-quoted verse by Protestants refers to the “works” of the Mosaic law or any works performed in a legalistic sense, where we view God as a debtor to us, and not as our heavenly Father. Paul is teaching us that, with the coming of Christ, we are now saved by grace through faith, not by Mosaic or legal works.
This is why Paul refers to “works of ourselves” and so we can’t “boast.” Paul says the same thing about “works” Rom. 4:2,4 – if Abraham was justified by “works,” he would have something to “boast” about. Here, the wages are not counted as grace, but debt. “Boasting” does not attribute works to God, but to oneself. But good works done in faith are necessary for justification (James 2:24, etc.) because we receive rewards by grace, not by legal obligation, and we attribute these works to God, not ourselves.
Eph. 2:10 – in quoting Ephesians 2:8-9, Protestants invariably ignore the very next verse. Right after Paul’s teaching on “works” referring to Mosaic law, Paul says we are created in Christ for “good works” – a clear distinction between “works of law” (Mosaic law/legal payment) and “good works” (law of Christ/reward of grace).
JUSTIFICATION - Scripture Catholic
James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 – Paul’s phrase for “works of the law” in the Greek is “ergon nomou” which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent (“hrvt ysm”) meaning “deeds of the law,” or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use “ergon nomou.” He uses “ergois agathois.” Therefore, Paul’s “works of the law” and James’ “works” are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
Rom. 3:29 – Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking “Or is God the God of the Jews only?” It does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 4:9-17 – Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”
Rom. 9:31-32 – righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, “works of law” does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 11:6,11 – justification is no longer based on “works” of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.
Rom. 15:9-12 – Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, “works of law” are no longer required.
Acts 13:39 – Luke also confirms this by providing that we have been “freed from the law of Moses.” This is the “works of the law” from which we have been freed.
Rom. 3:20,28 – in addition to the Mosaic law, as stated above, “works of the law” can also refer to anything that makes God a debtor to us. This is because law requires payment, but grace is a free gift from God. Therefore, faith must be behind every good work in order for it to be a work of grace. If not, it is a work of debt, and we cannot obligate God to do anything for us.
Rom. 4:3-4 – Paul refers to works apart from God’s grace. We do not obligate God to give us grace like an employee obligates his employer to pay wages. Faith in Christ must be behind our good works in order for it to be considered a work of grace; otherwise, it is a work of law or obligation.
Rom. 6:23 – this is why Paul says the “wages” of sin is death. Eternal life is a free gift from God. We cannot obligate God to pay us for our works; otherwise, we are in a system of law, not a system of grace.
Gal. 6:8-9 – the earnings referred to here are from God’s grace. It is a free gift, not an obligation. This underscores that our relationship with God is Father/son and daughter, not employer/employee.
Eph. 2:8-9 – we have been saved by grace through faith, not because of “works,” lest anyone boast. This much-quoted verse by Protestants refers to the “works” of the Mosaic law or any works performed in a legalistic sense, where we view God as a debtor to us, and not as our heavenly Father. Paul is teaching us that, with the coming of Christ, we are now saved by grace through faith, not by Mosaic or legal works.
This is why Paul refers to “works of ourselves” and so we can’t “boast.” Paul says the same thing about “works” Rom. 4:2,4 – if Abraham was justified by “works,” he would have something to “boast” about. Here, the wages are not counted as grace, but debt. “Boasting” does not attribute works to God, but to oneself. But good works done in faith are necessary for justification (James 2:24, etc.) because we receive rewards by grace, not by legal obligation, and we attribute these works to God, not ourselves.
Eph. 2:10 – in quoting Ephesians 2:8-9, Protestants invariably ignore the very next verse. Right after Paul’s teaching on “works” referring to Mosaic law, Paul says we are created in Christ for “good works” – a clear distinction between “works of law” (Mosaic law/legal payment) and “good works” (law of Christ/reward of grace).
JUSTIFICATION - Scripture Catholic
The disagreement exists only in your wreckless interpretation. James is not in error.
Eph. 2:8-9 – we have been saved by grace through faith, not because of “works,” lest anyone boast. This much-quoted verse by Protestants refers to the “works” of the Mosaic law or any works performed in a legalistic sense, where we view God as a debtor to us, and not as our heavenly Father. Paul is teaching us that, with the coming of Christ, we are now saved by grace through faith, not by Mosaic or legal works.
This is why Paul refers to “works of ourselves” and so we can’t “boast.” Paul says the same thing about “works” Rom. 4:2,4 – if Abraham was justified by “works,” he would have something to “boast” about. Here, the wages are not counted as grace, but debt. “Boasting” does not attribute works to God, but to oneself. But good works done in faith are necessary for justification (James 2:24, etc.) because we receive rewards by grace, not by legal obligation, and we attribute these works to God, not ourselves.
Eph. 2:10 – in quoting Ephesians 2:8-9, Protestants invariably ignore the very next verse. Right after Paul’s teaching on “works” referring to Mosaic law, Paul says we are created in Christ for “good works” – a clear distinction between “works of law” (Mosaic law/legal payment) and “good works” (law of Christ/reward of grace).
Eph. 2:11-16 – this section further explains Paul’s reference to “works” which relates to following the Jewish legal ordinances.
Eph. 3:17 – Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, but we also must be rooted and grounded in love.
Psalm 51:1-2 – O God, blot out my transgressions, wash me thoroughly from my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin.
This cleansing requires an inner change of heart. Many Protestants believe that we are so depraved that God only covers our sins up by declaring us righteous (imputing Christ’s righteousness to us). The Catholic (and Scriptural view), however, is that God is powerful enough to blot out our sins and remove them. The view that God just declares us righteous by “covering us up,” denigrates the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives, who continues the work of Christ through His work of justification and sanctification (infusing His grace into souls and changing the inner person).
Rom. 2:13 – for it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. Paul is referring to the “law of Christ” in Gal.6:2, not “works of the law” in Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16; 3:2,5,10; and Eph. 2:8-9. The “law of Christ” is faith in Christ and works based on grace (God owes us nothing) and “works of the law” mean no faith in Christ, and legal works based on debt (God owes us something).
Rom. 4:5-6 – to him who does not work but believes, his faith is accounted to him as righteousness, like David, who was righteous apart from works. Here, Paul is emphasizing that works must be done in faith, not outside of faith. If they are done outside of faith, we are in a system of debt (God owes us). If they are done in faith (as James requires), we are in a system of grace (God rewards us). Hence, Paul accepts the works performed under God’s forbearance (grace) in Rom. 2:7,10,13 (see also Rom. 14:10-12; 1 Cor. 3:12-17; and 2 Corinthians 5:10) which lead to justification and eternal life. These verses have nothing to do with “faith alone.” Paul uses the word “alone” three times in Rom. 4:12,16,23, but never uses it with “faith.” Certainly, if he wanted to teach “faith alone,” he would have done so.
Psalm 51:7-9 – purge me and I shall be clean, wash me whiter than snow, fill me with joy, blot out my iniquities.
We are purged and filled up internally, not just covered up externally.
***
Don't you know I can say the same thing about you? Why do you say my interpretation is wreck-less. If adding works by man makes a person fall from grace then that is wreck-less.
In my study of the book of James I posted on this forum I found several things (FACTS) he said that were not true based on events recorded in the scriptures and pointed them out by comparison. But the religious said black was white and white was black. In other words they refused to see them just as you are refusing to see that there MUST have been a reason for the believing Jews to want to kill Paul but not James.
James 2:20 21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)
FACT! No, Abraham was not! according to the scriptures He was accounted righteous (JUSTIFIED) before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God.
Genesis 15:4 6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)
FACT! Not only that, but God accounted him righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that he did. There is nothing in Genesis 15 that mentions any works that Abraham did. Paul accurately reports this. It seems that James did not consider the account in Genesis 15. It was not until Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, that he agreed to offer Isaac.
You post a lot of scripture that has nothing to do with what was going on in Acts 21:20 so as to hide the truth in a cloud of scripture.
Okay, I get it, You will not believe what I write. Then let us agree to just ignore each other. I, personal, do not wish to discuss anything with someone that thinks what I write is wreck-less. It is a foolish waste of my time.
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Philip James
Well-Known Member
It is not the letter of the Mosaic Law that we have to keep, but the Spirit of the Law...
Love God!
Love one another!
If we fail to love, we sin. If we sin and repent, our Father is quick to forgive us,
But that does not free us from our obligation to love!
Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!
Love God!
Love one another!
If we fail to love, we sin. If we sin and repent, our Father is quick to forgive us,
But that does not free us from our obligation to love!
Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!
What "adding works" are you talking about? The Church condemned "works salvation, or works righteousness" 1000 years before the first Protestant was born. It's a heresy called Pelagianism. Get it? A heresy. But the myth won't go away.
James was killed. Acts 12:2 The Bible is the infallible written word of God, so obviously your interpretation is fallible.
James 2:20 21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)
FACT! No, Abraham was not! according to the scriptures He was accounted righteous (JUSTIFIED) before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God.
Genesis 15:4 6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 – many Protestants err in their understanding of what Paul means by “works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul’s mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the “works of the law.” Here is the proof:
James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 – Paul’s phrase for “works of the law” in the Greek is “ergon nomou” which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent (“hrvt ysm”) meaning “deeds of the law,” or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use “ergon nomou.” He uses “ergois agathois.” Therefore, Paul’s “works of the law” and James’ “works” are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
Rom. 3:29 – Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking “Or is God the God of the Jews only?” It does not mean “good works.”
Rom. 4:9-17 – Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”
Does Gen. 15 have anything to do with Acts 21:20?
Pay close attention:
Eph. 2:8-9 – we have been saved by grace through faith, not because of “works,” lest anyone boast. This much-quoted verse by Protestants refers to the “works” of the Mosaic law or any works performed in a legalistic sense, where we view God as a debtor to us, and not as our heavenly Father. Paul is teaching us that, with the coming of Christ, we are now saved by grace through faith, not by Mosaic or legal works.
This is why Paul refers to “works of ourselves” and so we can’t “boast.” Paul says the same thing about “works” Rom. 4:2,4 – if Abraham was justified by “works,” he would have something to “boast” about. Here, the wages are not counted as grace, but debt. “Boasting” does not attribute works to God, but to oneself. But good works done in faith are necessary for justification (James 2:24, etc.) because we receive rewards by grace, not by legal obligation, and we attribute these works to God, not ourselves.
Gen. 12:1-4 – Abram is justified here, as God promises to make his name great and bless the families of the earth through his seed. Abram is justified by his faith in God. Heb. 11:8-10 confirms Abraham’s justification occurred here, before Gen. 15:6 (later) by referring to Gen. 12, not Gen. 15. Abraham’s justification increased over time because justification is not a one-time event, but an ongoing process of growing in holiness.
Gen. 15:6 – Abram is further justified here, as God promises him that his descendants will be as numerous as the stars. Because the Scripture says, “He believed the Lord, and He reckoned it to him as righteousness,” Protestants often say this was Abram’s initial justification, and cite Rom 4:2 to prove Abram was justified by his faith. Yes, it is true Abram was justified by his faith, but he was justified 25 years earlier in Gen. 12:1-4, as Heb. 11:8-10 proves.
Gen. 22:1-18 – Abraham is further justified here, this time by works, when he offered his son Isaac as a sacrifice to God. James 2:21 proves this as James writes, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?” James then confirms this by writing, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness” (James 2:23). These verses prove that justification before God is an on-going process, not a one-time event of accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, and is accomplished by faith and works.
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FHII
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***
No matter how you cover it with smoke you are still saying we have to save ourselves by our works. That means Jesus did not atone (pay) for our sins on the cross by His shed blood but that we have to obtain our salvation by works of the flesh.
That is what you are saying and it won't fly. I will post one scripture but I know you will cover it with your assumptions so that it is irrelevant.
Gal 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV
What I see is that you have answered this question with the word YES.
Why don't you click on "reply" instead of making things up. If you can't be bothered reading post #32, and accuse me of things I never said, then I can't be bothered arguing with an idiot.
bbyrd009
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nothing wrong with what you believe right now, beliefs are not the standard anyway.
Even Abram started at "the Oaks of Mamre."
(oaks are...not good things, to Scripture)
Even Abram started at "the Oaks of Mamre."
(oaks are...not good things, to Scripture)
***
You start out by saying your church condemned works salvation, or works righteousness, but then state that salvation is an on going process, not a one time event. Now you want to get upset when I show that all you are doing is stating that works are a requirement to be saved and that equals being made perfect by the flesh. --- Perhaps you should read what you write.
Gal 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV
Oh, by the way, we don't justify ourselves by what we do as you believe. According to Paul we are justified by the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV
Everyone preached the Gospel of the Kingdom, throughout the Gospels and Acts, until Israel was set aside in Acts 28:28, for failing to accept Christ. The ONLY purpose during Acts was to entice Israel to convert, so that Christ would return and Israel's earthly Kingdom would start. Christ said He would not return until Israel accepted Him - Mt 23:39, Ac 3:19-21, several other places. The purpose of the Gifts of the Spirit was as a powerful witnessing aid to Israel, who required a sign. The ONLY purpose of Gentiles being allowed into the Jewish church was to provoke Israel to jealousy, so they might repent. All saved Gentiles during Acts were grafted into Israel, the good olive tree., and that made Acts all Israel.
The purpose during the Gospels and Acts was CERTAINLY NOT to start a church. It was to get Israel's Kingdom restored to them - Acts 1:6
Had Israel, as a nation, accepted Christ during Christ's earthly ministry or Acts, the New Heaven and New Earth would now be about 1000 years old. Everyone says Christ can return at any moment, but that will be impossible until Israel, as a nation, accepts Christ. That poses a problem, though, since Israel has not existed, in God's eyes, for the last 1950 years. They will be back on the scene, though, in my guess of about 50 years (1950 + 50 = 2000), and then all these churches that teach the heresy of replacement theology will be proven wrong.
Just think of Israel being on a 2000 year break, while God gathers His Gentile church, found only in Paul's last 7 books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. Only in those 7 books, does anyone have a hope of spending eternity in Heaven. As far as our hope, calling, rules, and directions, ONLY Paul's last 7 books apply to us Gentiles today.
The purpose during the Gospels and Acts was CERTAINLY NOT to start a church. It was to get Israel's Kingdom restored to them - Acts 1:6
Had Israel, as a nation, accepted Christ during Christ's earthly ministry or Acts, the New Heaven and New Earth would now be about 1000 years old. Everyone says Christ can return at any moment, but that will be impossible until Israel, as a nation, accepts Christ. That poses a problem, though, since Israel has not existed, in God's eyes, for the last 1950 years. They will be back on the scene, though, in my guess of about 50 years (1950 + 50 = 2000), and then all these churches that teach the heresy of replacement theology will be proven wrong.
Just think of Israel being on a 2000 year break, while God gathers His Gentile church, found only in Paul's last 7 books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. Only in those 7 books, does anyone have a hope of spending eternity in Heaven. As far as our hope, calling, rules, and directions, ONLY Paul's last 7 books apply to us Gentiles today.
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