What do we have to say about the rapture?

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setfree

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I am not arguing with you Kriss I just put out food for thought. In Col. 2:16-17, it says that these feast and days are shadows(pictures) of things to come. Maybe you can enlighten us about the Law of Harvest, Tell us what you know about the harvest mentioned in the Bible.
 

Christina

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I didnt think you were arguing Setfree sorry if my post seemed so I am very passionate about this subject it is what the creation of this website was based on to tell the truth of this Lie Satan has put upon Gods children today causing many preachers/teachers and good christains to be lead to Antichrist and Satan I know how seducing it is I used to believe it years ago once you find the truth You see so clearly that this is Satans work I never want a christain sister or brother to be taken in by this lie
 

Christina

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Spiritually, we could say that when God places his Holy Spirit in us at the time of our repentance and baptism, it is a spiritual seed, the "beginning" of spiritual life within us. However, we can't let that "seed" just sit there and not grow, or we will be as the seeds in the ground that simply die. We must water our Holy Spirit with continued study of the "living water", Jesus Christ. We must put into practice every word of the teachings of the ENTIRE Bible to allow the Holy Spirit to grow in us. So, when the time of the harvest comes, spiritually, at the return of Jesus Christ, we will be among the "first fruits" who are the first to be resurrected (a small flock) Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Do not be harvested out of seasonstudyhttp://www.christianityboard.com/two-field...highlight=field
 

setfree

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I am not arguing, As I stated in your other thread(history of..)I see points on both sides. I was grounded in pre-trib teachings, I have not searched this out with the help of the Holy Spirit. Most of what I have learned came from others searching and there interpretations. I do not have a solid stand on this issue. I have a lot to learn.That said...I do not buy into what you have posted either. Not saying that you are wrong, just that I have not searched it out. I have learned to read what others say with caution. But when the Holy Spirit confirms it in my spirit I will let it take root. Right now I am still weighing all the fact.I brought up the Harvest because it was discussed somewhere else. Jewish customs taught that There were three harvest. The firstfruits, the main harvest, the gleaning-four corners. Since the end times is pictured as a harvest, I want to learn more about the biblical harvest in the Old Testament. Jesus is mentioned as the firstfruits of them that sleep in 1 Cor. 15:20. Rev. 14:4 also mentions virgins being the firstfruits unto God and the Lamb. One other thought the greek word Harpazo in 1 Thess. 4:17, means caught up, to snatch up forcefully or catch away. Same word used in Eph. 1:9-10; 2 Thess. 2:1; Rev. 4:1. Now a question...Why is it that After Rev. 4:1 there is no more mention of the church on earth?
 

Christina

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Why does no one hear God words ITS THE WHEN 1thess 4:17 say caught up 2 thess 2:3 tells you when why doesnt anyone hear his wordsAnd you are wrong about Rev. the terminology changes the time of the gentiles ends it talks about Israel and tribes of Israel that is who the church really is the ten lost tribes of Israel there is much about this on this site
 

Christina

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I didnt say that this time of grace we are in is known as the time of the gentile The first 2000 years of scripture was about the hebrews/Jews this half is about opening salvation to the Gentile this time to will End and God again turns his attention back to the Jew to reunite The whole of his Children jew gentile/christains all under Christ that is his all become his bride now Gentile and Jew are seperate branches called sticks in Eze 37:16-19 you can read where he rejoins Judha(jews) christain nations/gentiles(Ephriam)The Church is plainly described in Revelation Chapters 5 through 19, but not by the word church. The following various groups are identified as portions of the Church because of their clear relationship to Jesus Christ.• Under the altar at the fifth seal in Chapter 6, we see the souls of those who have been slain because of the word of God and because of the testimony they had maintained. This identifies them as a portion of the Church. The word of God is the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the testimony of Jesus Christ that gets people in trouble, just as Jesus said it would.• At the sixth seal in Chapter 7, we find a great multitude, so vast that no one could count them, appearing in heaven having come out of the great tribulation. They are identified as having washed their robes and made them white in the Blood of the Lamb. These are obviously a portion of the Church.• The two witnesses of Chapter 11, who prophesy standing before the Lord of the earth and are described as lying dead in the streets of the great city where also their Lord was crucified and are then taken up to heaven, are obviously part of the Church.• The saints of Chapter 14, whom the beast wars against and who are encouraged to keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus, are obviously part of the Church.• Those harvested at the end of Chapter 14, who are heard in heaven singing the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb having emerged victorious over the beast and his image and the number of his name, are obviously part of the Church.All of these groups are found in Chapters 5 through 19, and they all fit descriptions of portions of the Church based on their relationship to Jesus Christ. The bride is revealed in Chapter 19, having made herself ready at last. She didn’t just jump there from Chapter 5. She has been implicitly involved in the purification and refining processes mentioned in Chapters 5 through 19. The white linen she is clothed in is described as the righteous acts of the saints. She is, at least in part, made up of those saints who have just emerged victorious from the great tribulation.The Church is found everywhere in the book of Revelation. She achieves bride status as she is purified by the crucible of events during the last three and one-half years of the age. Jesus is coming back for a bride without spot or wrinkle, and one of the purposes of the great tribulation is clearly portrayed as helping to establish that purity. Logically then, our only hope of escape from these times is to be found without spot or wrinkle not follow antichrist and take his mark but staying in his word
 

setfree

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Can you explain the three harvest mentioned first fruits, main harvest, four corners-gleaning?
 

Christina

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Heres a quick outline study I did not write this I will try to take time tomarrow Jesus Christ, The "First Of The Firstfruits" Old Testament Preview"And The Lord [see Rock Of Ages] said to Moses, "Say to the people of Israel, When you come into the land which I give you and reap its harvest, you shall bring the sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest; and he shall wave the sheaf before The Lord, that you may find acceptance; on the morrow after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And on the day when you wave the sheaf, you shall offer a male lamb a year old without blemish as a burnt offering to The Lord." (Leviticus 23:9-12 RSV)"The first of the first fruits of your ground you shall bring into the house of The Lord your God." (Exodus 23:19 RSV)New Testament Fulfillment"But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep." (1 Corinthians 15:20 RSV) (see Jesus Christ)"But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at His coming those who belong to Christ." (1 Corinthians 15:23 RSV)The Firstfruits, The First ResurrectionOld Testament Preview"For six days you shall eat unleavened bread; and on the seventh day there shall be a solemn assembly to The Lord your God; you shall do no work on it. You shall count seven weeks [i.e. after Passover when the lamb was slain]; begin to count the seven weeks from the time you first put the sickle to the standing grain. Then you shall keep the feast of weeks [i.e. Pentecost] to The Lord your God" (Deuteronomy 16:8-10 RSV)"And you shall observe the feast of weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest" (Exodus 34:22 RSV)New Testament Fulfillment"Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth that we should be a kind of first fruits of His creatures." (James 1:18 RSV)"For The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet The Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 RSV) (see The Return Of Jesus Christ)"They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years ... This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with Him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4-6 RSV)"it is these who follow The Lamb wherever He goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and The Lamb" (Revelation 14:4 RSV)The Later HarvestOld Testament Preview"On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the produce of the land, you shall keep the feast of The Lord seven days; on the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest. And you shall take on the first day the fruit of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and boughs of leafy trees, and willows of the brook; and you shall rejoice before The Lord your God seven days. You shall keep it as a feast to The Lord seven days in the year; it is a statute for ever throughout your generations; you shall keep it in the seventh month." (Leviticus 23:39-41 RSV)New Testament Fulfillment"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended." (Revelation 20:5 RSV)"for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29 RSV)"Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it; from His presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15 RSV
 

Wakka

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I made my point on the boards, and I think I have gotten some people's attention.There will be NO pre-tribulation rapture!Matthew 24:22-3021 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.25 Behold, I have told you before.26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Jesus said it Himself. There will NOT be a pretrib rapture!As for the time of length, Matthew 24:22 says that the days shall be shortened. How long will it be shortened for?Revelation 9:5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.Revelation 9:10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.Lastly, if the Great Tribulation didn't effect us, then why did Jesus even mention it?
 
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There will be a Squeeze in between the 6th and 7th Seal and/or the 6th and 7th Trump, before Christ Comes. Choosing of the Mark of the Beast or the True Christ. In the Mid Tribulation Period, I believe the BRIDE of Christ will be taken during that Mid Tribulation period, known to a few as the Ecumenical Squeeze, Mark 13. Choose Christ or Chose the Mark of the Beast.
 

Christina

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Also, is the great tribulation going to be 3.5 years or 5 months?
Its shortened to 5 months Not the actual 7 years it is still 7 years but the time Satan /Antichrist will be here is shortened to 5 months divded into two 2 1/2 month periods with the mid week being in the middle of the 5 monthsInteresting note here 5 months on the lunar calander is also 150 daysSame as Noahs flood Noahs flood was water Satan flood will be of liesRemember we are told as it was in the days of Noah
 

Christina

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There will be a Squeeze in between the 6th and 7th Seal and/or the 6th and 7th Trump, before Christ Comes. Choosing of the Mark of the Beast or the True Christ. In the Mid Tribulation Period, I believe the BRIDE of Christ will be taken during that Mid Tribulation period, known to a few as the Ecumenical Squeeze, Mark 13. Choose Christ or Chose the Mark of the Beast.
Unorthodox what are you basing this on whatever it is its not right there is nothing I see that supports any of this There is only one gathering to our lord and that is a the End Last trump 7th trump even post trib if you like that term better but Gods says Last And the mark of the beast is the oppisite of the Mark/seal of God that is you either have God sealed in your mind(forehead) and are working in the field (world) doing Gods work (right hand)Or you are doing Antichrist/Satans work (right hand ) and you believe a lie that he is christ and have him sealed in your mind (forehead)
 

Christina

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Can you explain the three harvest mentioned first fruits, main harvest, four corners-gleaning?
I must admitt Setfree I couldnt remember a four-gleanig harvest so you forced me to have another cup of coffee to think on this one then it came to me what you were talking about there is no Day of four cornor gleaning it is the customary tradition / rule that is followed during harvest the rule was you were not to harvest twice you were to leave the four corners unharvested for the poor to gather it was the food closets of the ancient days. Day of Pentecost TO BE FULLY COME... This was the Harvest Feast, also called the Feast of Weeks, and in the New Testament called the Feast of Pentecost. This was the feast which had no set date, but counting began when the first of the crops appeared, and then seven weeks (fifty days) later culminated in that final great "Day" of Pentecost. Dt16:9, Lev23:10. Devout Jews would, of course, be in the Temple that day--in the place where God had chosen to place his name, and not in some upper room as some teachers claim. The Jewish Sabbath was Saturday (Fri. sunset until Sat. sunset) and the count was to begin the day after (Sunday) when the priest waved the sheaf of firstfruits, and ended on the Sunday fifty days later. THAT was when the Day of Pentecost was fully come--fifty days after Firstfruits! Somebody was counting!The 40 day bogus count from Ash Wed. to Easter is a mockery of the Bible truth which calls for a 50 day count from Firstfruits till Pentecost. "Every man in his own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterwards they that are Christ's...", 1Cor15:23. Jesus IS the Resurrection, and he WAS resurrected--he was planted, but he arose! Remember how the Genesis Joseph dreamed of his brothers sheaves bowing down to his sheaf? This is part of the "sowing & reaping" allegory -- don't criticize Joseph for telling his dream because "whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning", Rom15:4, and the precept of how a person could figuratively be bread or grain is what leads to the logic of how Jesus is both the Living Bread, Jn6, and also the incorruptible seed that was planted (in the womb and in the tomb) so that God would beget sons and daughters. 1Jn3:2. "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting". Acts2:2. What does PENTECOST mean to the Christian? This is the essence of our faith--that because Christ rose from the dead and went to heaven, we have confidence we'll do the same. On that great Day of Pentecost those were Jews who converted to the cause of Christ when they recognized the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies such as Psalm 22 and Deut 18:15. The Gentiles didn't begin to accept Christ until after Peter was sent to Cornelius, and they weren't called Christians until Acts 11:26 after Paul had taught in Antioch. "The Jew first, and also the Gentile" (or Greek) is an expression found in Romans 1:16 and 2:9,10 and supports the age of mankind proposition whereby the "Children" followed the Pre-Law dispensation of the Genesis "Infancy" and in turn were followed by the "Adult" dispensation of the Church Age. Now the "times of the Jews" (two millennium) has been succeeded by the "times of the Gentiles" (also two millennium), similar to the account of the seven years of Rachel & Leah, and the seven years of putting the bread into the storehouse followed by the seven years of feeding on that bread. Figuratively we've competed our "7 weeks" (or 50 yrs of Jubilee) and now the time of the full harvest is upon us. The "perilous times" of 2Tim3 are here!
 

Jordan

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Wow...I'm tired... Even so there is no such thing as a Pre-Tribulation Rapture... It's men's vain words.Note to self: ...Men, I need encouragement and help...I think I am growing worse...
 

Catholic Crusader

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Most importantly, what do we have to say about 1 Thessalonians 4:17?1 Thessalonians 4:17Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
In my opinion, I agree with Augustine andthe amillennialists. The Christian position has historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though I do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism". In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught." With respect to the rapture, I certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though I do not use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (which is ironic I guess, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]). Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium. I think a more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace" (2 Pet. 3:8–14).
 

Christina

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There is no doubt we gathered to the Lord I dont like the Word Rapture because it has come to mean Pre-tribulation (before the tribulation) this is not in scripture anywhere we are told we will be gathered after the Antichrist (son of Pertion) 2 Thess 2:3and the tribulation period there is no secret coming of Christ in scripture there is one second coming and one changing at the second coming of our Lord and this was always the teachings until 1830 when a young girl had a dream,and Darby, and scofield turned it into todays Lie it is strickly men teachings Not GodsHowever I believe there is plenty of scripture to support the Millieum
 

Aleks_Kravchuk

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There is no mystery around when this will take place, for we will know his methods of operation [withholdeth], and the signs, the seasons, and the times of Satan's arrival to earth. If you are in the Word of God and not following these "one verse preachers", you will know when to expect the Antichrist. You will also know within hours of when to expect our Lord Jesus Christ's return. Satan's reign on earth is not seven years because God reduced that time to five months for the "elect's" sake, as Jesus told us in Matthew 24:22. Jesus also revealed that the time is shortened to five months, to John in Revelation 9:5, and 10. Hey Kriss.. I would like to bring up another point for you.I understand that you wrote that the time for "Elects" sake will be reduced to five months, But it is written here in (Daniel 12:7-12)7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. 8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.In the verse 7 it states that time, times, and a half. From which we understand three and a half years.In verse 11 It sates that there shall be 1290 From the time of that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up.So it still has to be three and a half years =1260 days. There is 30 days different and I do not know what that is about or even 1335 days. I do not have the revelation about the other days. But God used an Angel of God and stated clearly that from the time that the abomination of desolation is set up there will pass 1290 (DAYS). 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.(MATTHEW 24:21-22, Mark 13:20)As I understand that we think that by Shortened it means less in number. Yet, lets ask a simple question.Do you know how much is an INCH?you will say it is about this long [------], lets say someone shortens that to [----] and it is still called an INCH. You will not be able to tell the difference because the measurement of the INCH changed everywhere instantly. Same as with Time. God really cares about his Elect's suffering and to him it is so precious that He will shorten their suffering. Otherwise no one would live long enough.Lets ask this question. How long is five minutes for you? you will probably say. It passed too fast. I just started having breakfast. and five minutes is up.How long is five minutes if your finger is jammed by the door and you are in pain?Seems like eternity.......God will shorten the measurement of TIME itself, for elects sake. not the number of days..in essence it will be like less days.. but there will still be 24 hours in a day. 365 days in a year. It will only be shorter. You will not notice it that well. You may feel it that it seems to be that days are shorter...but there will still be 24 hours, 365 days. And the 1290 days will still be fullfilled. Only in God's eyes they will be shorter. Time instead of being measured [-------] will be measured [----] yet it will still be called time. You probably would wonder how? how would we tell if time is shorter. Well first of all you need a parallel universe then. Whole universe will change for the ELECT'S sake. It is called great tribulation.Nothing is impossible for God to accomplish
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Praise God. it is very interestingI am not disputing your point, that is not my goal Just think about it
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and be Blessed as always.....well.....even more than that
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