Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

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Taken

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WHAT did He command us to do?

You Just commented ...
To be obedient to God.
To be obedient to Gods Grace.
And now to be obedient to Jesus' commands.

Are you calling Jesus, "Gods Grace" ?
Are you calling Jesus, God?

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.[/QUOTE]


Uh huh. A Command BY Jesus TO LOVE. A Command that is possible for a Saved and Born again man can fulfill via the Power of God within them.

does this entail?
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)


And? What is your position, about he WHO performs "WORKS" of mercy and charity?
A saved and born again man?
An unsaved and not born again man?

And? What if a man IS saved and born again and is not merciful or charitable at every opportunity? What is the consequence for such a man?


What ELSE did He say we had to do?
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)


^ That command applies to a natural man, who is not saved, not born again, that you called nonsense.

- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)


And? If one misses a day, what is the consequence?

Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)


^ uh, WHAT THAT means is what is being discussed!

Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)


For example....Your current pope has suggested changing the words to the Lord's Prayer.

IYO, would you say that is doing the Will of the Father?.....meaning God the Father, not the pope your father.


- We must
suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)


That ^ is a consequence, not a Command.

We must also submit to the Authority of His Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12=15, John 20:21-23).

Well ya, sure, according to Jesus' understanding of what HIS Church is.
 

Taken

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EVERYTHING you listed above can be said of BOTH His born again followers AND the unbelievers.

Nah. A reconciled man, IS reconciled. He doesn't require reconciliation.


We ALL must repent when we sin.
We ALL must become reconciled.
We ALL must ask.
We ALL must seek.
We ALL must knock.

WE ALL begin natural in sin....not news.

Difference is....you imply a man born of God, is still the same natrual man.

I disagree.

Non-believers are not "commanded" to do anything.

Huh? Go read your own OPPOSITE statement at the beginning of this post.

ONLY the born-again believer is under the commandments of God.

Once again you change the premise .... saying "under".

The topic is Jesus' commandments.
Commands begin as commands to the UNsaved and UNborn again.
 

BreadOfLife

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You Just commented ...
To be obedient to God.
To be obedient to Gods Grace.
And now to be obedient to Jesus' commands.

Are you calling Jesus, "Gods Grace" ?
Are you calling Jesus, God?

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

Uh huh. A Command BY Jesus TO LOVE. A Command that is possible for a Saved and Born again man can fulfill via the Power of God within them.
And? What is your position, about he WHO performs "WORKS" of mercy and charity?
A saved and born again man?
An unsaved and not born again man?

And? What if a man IS saved and born again and is not merciful or charitable at every opportunity? What is the consequence for such a man?
^ That command applies to a natural man, who is not saved, not born again, that you called nonsense.

And? If one misses a day, what is the consequence?
^ uh, WHAT THAT means is what is being discussed!
For example....Your current pope has suggested changing the words to the Lord's Prayer.
IYO, would you say that is doing the Will of the Father?.....meaning God the Father, not the pope your father.
That ^ is a consequence, not a Command.

Well ya, sure, according to Jesus' understanding of what HIS Church is.[/QUOTE]
And this entire verbose diatribe is your way of dancing around the fact that you were proven WRONG again.

YOU said that most of the commands of Jesus were for the non-believer and NOT the born again believer - and you've been Scripturally-spanked . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Nah. A reconciled man, IS reconciled. He doesn't require reconciliation.
WE ALL begin natural in sin....not news.
Difference is....you imply a man born of God, is still the same natrual man.
I disagree.
Huh? Go read your own OPPOSITE statement at the beginning of this post.
Once again you change the premise .... saying "under".
The topic is Jesus' commandments.
Commands begin as commands to the UNsaved and UNborn again.
And once again, you've been proven wrong by Scripture - and all you can do is whine.
Commandments ore for the BELIEVER - not the UNbeliever.

What good is a command from God to a person who doesn't even acknowledge Him??
Pretty elementary . . .
 

Heb 13:8

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Thank you for finally agreeing with me that we must cooperate with God's grace by posting Phil. 2:12.
This is the Catholic position.

Remember - TRUE faith = Belief + obedience.

I didn't agree with you BOL. You're working for your salvation. I'm work out my salvation. Phil 2:12-13 is a sanctification scripture.

Phil 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Pulpit Commentary - Verse 12. - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence. St. Paul passes to exhortation grounded on the Lord's perfect example. "Ye obeyed" (ὑπηκούσατε) answers to the γενόμενος ὑπήκοος of Ver. 8, and τὴν ἑαυτῶν σωτηρίαν corresponds with the Savior's exaltation described in vers. 9-11. He encourages them by acknowledging their past obedience; he urges them to work, not for the sake of approving themselves to their earthly teacher, but to think of their unseen Lord, and to realize his presence all the more in St. Paul's absence. Work out your own salvation. Complete it; God has begun the work; carry it out unto the end. Comp. the same word in Ephesians 6:13, "having done all." Christ's work of atonement is finished: work from the cross: carry out the great work of sanctification by the help of the Holy Spirit. Your own: it is each man's own work; no human friend, no pastor, not even an apostle, can work it for him. With fear and trembling (comp. 2 Corinthians 7:15 and Ephesians 6:5). "Servi esse debetis exemplo Christi" (Bengel). Have an eager, trembling anxiety to obey God in all things, considering the tremendous sacrifice of Christ, the unspeakable depth and tenderness of his love, the immense importance of a present salvation from sin, the momentous preciousness of a future salvation from death.

God bl
 

Heb 13:8

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And once again, you've been proven wrong by Scripture - and all you can do is whine.
Commandments ore for the BELIEVER - not the UNbeliever.

What good is a command from God to a person who doesn't even acknowledge Him??
Pretty elementary . . .

Commandments are not for working for your salvation BOL, they're for sanctification.

Jhn 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Jhn 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

1 Jhn 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
 

BreadOfLife

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I didn't agree with you BOL. You're working for your salvation. I'm work out my salvation. Phil 2:12-13 is a sanctification scripture.

Phil 2:12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Pulpit Commentary - Verse 12. - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence. St. Paul passes to exhortation grounded on the Lord's perfect example. "Ye obeyed" (ὑπηκούσατε) answers to the γενόμενος ὑπήκοος of Ver. 8, and τὴν ἑαυτῶν σωτηρίαν corresponds with the Savior's exaltation described in vers. 9-11. He encourages them by acknowledging their past obedience; he urges them to work, not for the sake of approving themselves to their earthly teacher, but to think of their unseen Lord, and to realize his presence all the more in St. Paul's absence. Work out your own salvation. Complete it; God has begun the work; carry it out unto the end. Comp. the same word in Ephesians 6:13, "having done all." Christ's work of atonement is finished: work from the cross: carry out the great work of sanctification by the help of the Holy Spirit. Your own: it is each man's own work; no human friend, no pastor, not even an apostle, can work it for him. With fear and trembling (comp. 2 Corinthians 7:15 and Ephesians 6:5). "Servi esse debetis exemplo Christi" (Bengel). Have an eager, trembling anxiety to obey God in all things, considering the tremendous sacrifice of Christ, the unspeakable depth and tenderness of his love, the immense importance of a present salvation from sin, the momentous preciousness of a future salvation from death.

God bl
Nonsense.

Your previous post implied that the grace from Christ's finished work on the cross requires our cooperation in order for us to be saved. This is the correct position.
ALL of us are REDEEMED by that finished work - but not ONE is us is saved until we cooperate with that grace.

What was finished at the cross was our redemption. We were PAID for - NOT saved.
If you believe we are ALL saved by what Jesus did on the cross - then you have fallen for the heresy of Universalism.
 

BreadOfLife

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Commandments are not for working for your salvation BOL, they're for sanctification.

Jhn 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Jhn 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

1 Jhn 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
What do you think sanctification IS?? It is holiness.
Without
sanctification, we cannot enter Heaven.

Sanctification is what purifies us.
No sanctification = no salvation.
 

Heb 13:8

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What was finished at the cross was our redemption. We were PAID for - NOT saved.

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (sózó).

sózó: to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Short Definition: I save, heal
Definition: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

If you believe we are ALL saved by what Jesus did on the cross - then you have fallen for the heresy of Universalism.

BOL, Universalism is false. Only those who believe and confess are saved.

What do you think sanctification IS?? It is holiness.

Right, and it comes from God not us. We are holy because of what He did on the cross, not because of our filthy rags.

Without sanctification, we cannot enter Heaven.

No BOL, without His shed blood covering us we cannot enter Heaven.

Sanctification is what purifies us.
No sanctification = no salvation.

Sanctification is for us to grow in Christ, not to fear losing salvation.
 

BreadOfLife

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Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (sózó).

sózó: to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Short Definition: I save, heal
Definition: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

BOL, Universalism is false. Only those who believe and confess are saved.

Right, and it comes from God not us. We are holy because of what He did on the cross, not because of our filthy rags.

No BOL, without His shed blood covering us we cannot enter Heaven.

Sanctification is for us to grow in Christ, not to fear losing salvation.
You're not understanding.
NOBODY was saved at Calvary - UNTIL they cooperate with that grace.
Everybody was Redeemed (paid for).

It is silly - AND heretical to think that we are saved by Christ's blood at Calvary if we do nothing to accept this gift.

As for His shed blood - that's what MAKES us holy (sanctified) - but ONLY if we cooperate with the grace from His perfect sacrifice.

As for who is saved - according to Jesus it is the one who believes and is BAPTIZED (Mark 16:16) - and endures in faith to the end (Matt. 24:13).
 

Heb 13:8

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You're not understanding.
NOBODY was saved at Calvary - UNTIL they cooperate with that grace.
Everybody was Redeemed (paid for).

What are your thoughts on the word "saved" in the Greek in Rom 10:9. :rolleyes:

It is silly - AND heretical to think that we are saved by Christ's blood at Calvary if we do nothing to accept this gift.

Oh we're doing something, believing and confessing BOL.

As for His shed blood - that's what MAKES us holy (sanctified) - but ONLY if we cooperate with the grace from His perfect sacrifice.

Right, spiritual growth only comes if we cooperate. It has nothing to do with losing salvation. Your doctrine fails when you start throwing believers into hell because of disobedience.

As for who is saved - according to Jesus it is the one who believes and is BAPTIZED (Mark 16:16) - and endures in faith to the end (Matt. 24:13).

Holy spirit baptism BOL. Matt 24 is referring to the 70th week. It has nothing to do with the dispensation we're in. Enduring to the end in the 70th week has to do with martyrdom.

Pulpit Commentary - Verse 13. - He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matthew 10:22). Here is a note of consolation amid the refrain of woe. Patience and perseverance shall be crowned at the last. "The end" means primarily the destruction of Jerusalem, and the salvation promised is safety in that day of peril. It is believed that no Christians perished in the siege or after it (see ver. 16). But τέλος, being here used without the article (differently from vers. 6 and, 14), must not be restricted to one allusion, but must be taken more generally, as indeed a universal axiom, equivalent to "finally," as long as endurance is needed. And the salvation must refer to the soul's sentence at the last day, not to any mere safety of body and life. What the maxim says is this: patient continuance in well doing, resignation under persecutions and afflictions, holding fast the one faith even though it lead to the martyr's death, - this shall win the crown of eternal blessedness. The Christian must not be led astray by false teachers nor offended by the prevalence of scandals, nor let his love be chilled, if he would gain the reward, share in Messiah's glory, and save his soul.

God bles
 

Taken

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Commandments ore for the BELIEVER - not the UNbeliever.

Until you acknowledge and understand the difference between a natural man and a converted man, conversations with you are a WOT.

good is a command from God to a person who doesn't even acknowledge Him??
Pretty elementary . . .

Your problem is you do not know the difference between an UNsaved believer and a savED Believer.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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You say Merits...and Obedience...

You say JUSTIFIED, JUSTIFIED, JUSTIFIED...but fail to understand

It is not ALL the SAME "justifications".

A natural man WHO, is hearing the Word of God...
BECOMES JUSTIFIED to receive FAITH from God.

A natural man WHO, believes in his heart and confesses.......
BECOMES JUSTIFIED to become SAVED and BORN AGAIN.

A Saved and Born Again man....
BECOMES JUSTIFIED to BE FREED FROM SIN.

A Saved and Born Again man...
Becomes JUSTIFIED to have his Good Works testified of and recorded IN Heaven...

A Saved and Born Again man....
BECOMES JUSTIFIED to Receive rewards and blessing, WHEN HIS WORKS glorify Gods Name.

IOW....EVERY Act and Gift and Reward a man receives.....IS FIRST "JUSTIFIED" that the man "according to Gods Way and Grace"...CAN receive such things FROM GOD.

God Bless,
Taken

Romans 5:1------------------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24-----------------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify
Romans 6:16-17----------------- obeyed from the heart>>>>>justified/freed from sin


Justified means the exact same in all three verses I cited, that being "just-as-if-I'd" never done it.

In Romans 6:17-18 Paul said they obeyed from the heart, then they were "free from sin". In each of the 3 verse cited above justified means free from sin/saved. You are obviously trying to find ways to get around the simple fact that faith = works = obeyed from the heart. One must be obedient to God's will BEFORE he can be justified/free from sin. There is no example of anyone under the NT gospel of being justified/freed from sin while remaining defiant, disobedient to the will of God.

Therefore faith, works, obeying from the heart are necessary conditions one must meet to be justified by God.

Justification is something man must seek Galatians 2:17.

One can look at Abraham and see that justification is a process one goes through and not something that God does in a split second in time when a man has "faith only". Nor is one's justification unconditional, that is, the Christian remains justified no matter what the Christian does.
 

Taken

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Romans 5:1------------------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24-----------------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify
Romans 6:16-17----------------- obeyed from the heart>>>>>justified/freed from sin


Justified means the exact same in all three verses I cited, that being "just-as-if-I'd" never done it.

In Romans 6:17-18 Paul said they obeyed from the heart, then they were "free from sin". In each of the 3 verse cited above justified means free from sin/saved. You are obviously trying to find ways to get around the simple fact that faith = works = obeyed from the heart. One must be obedient to God's will BEFORE he can be justified/free from sin. There is no example of anyone under the NT gospel of being justified/freed from sin while remaining defiant, disobedient to the will of God.

Therefore faith, works, obeying from the heart are necessary conditions one must meet to be justified by God.

Justification is something man must seek Galatians 2:17.

One can look at Abraham and see that justification is a process one goes through and not something that God does in a split second in time when a man has "faith only". Nor is one's justification unconditional, that is, the Christian remains justified no matter what the Christian does.

Justified does not have different meanings...
However different THINGS ARE JUSTIFIED.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Ernest, what passage(s) besides verse 10 in 2 Cor 5:1-10 is referring to nonbelievers. Can you show me?



If there's only one judgment then please break down Rev 20:5 and Rev 20:11-15, and explain why the Bema Seat and the Great White throne are separated by a thousand years.

The Bible speaks of one judgment "the (definite article) judgment" and one judgment day where all, every one will be there.

Revelations 20:4-5 is a highly figurative passage. We are now living in that 1000 years that is the last dispensation which is the gospel dispensation. "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them". The ones on the thrones are Christians, some have been beheaded, some had not worshipped the beast. When it says "judgment was given unto them" means God rendered judgment unto them, a good favorable judgment. It does NOT mean those Christians are sitting on thrones handing out judgment. Only Christ has been given authority to judge John 5:27.

Revelation 20:11ff Again, highly figurative language. Because of verses as Matthew 25:31 and 2 Corinthians 5:10 it must be Christ Who is on the great white throne for God has given authority of judging to Christ (John 5:22). " whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." It would be Christ's face with heaven and earth fleeing away would be the destruction of heaven and earth that will take place on judgment day 2 Peter 3:7-10


Rev 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;" refers to the general resurrection of all men good and bad John 5:28-29
Christ on his great throne will open books and judge ALL men.

Rev 20:13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (those in the grave) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." A universal judgment of all men.

The context does not speak of multiple judgments, multiple judgment days or multiple judgers.


Heb 13:8 said:
Ok, so where do those who were saved under the OT law go when they die... Paradise, hell or Alabama?

The faithful that die whether they lived under the OT law or NT law will go to paradise when they die, Abraham's bosom.

Again, on judgment day books will be open, the OT book and NT book. Those that lived under the OT law will be judged by it and those that lived under the NT law will be judged by it.

The OT law required different laws (animal sacrifices, purifications, etc) for men to obey than the NT with different requirements (repentance confession baptism for remission of sins).


Heb 13:8 said:
Holy Spirit baptism Ernest, not H2O.

It does not say Holy Spirit baptism.

FF Bruce "“baptism in the New Testament is always baptism in water unless the context shows it to be something else; that is to say, the word is always to be understood literally unless the context indicates a figurative meaning” (Questions Answered, p. 106)"

Since there is nothing in Ephesians 4:4-5 that shows baptism is used in a figurative sense, then proper exegesis says it refers to a literal burial in water.

The one baptism that is in effect today is Christ's baptism of the great commission that lasts till the end of the world (Matthew 28:19-20) that consists of disciples (humans) administering water baptism.

If John 3:5 refers to some "spirit baptism" and we see from the discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus that Nicodemus had not been born again, then whose fault is it that he had not been born again? Must be the Holy Spirit's fault for not having "spirit baptized". How can Nicodemus be fairly, rightly justly condemned for not being born again when it was totally out of his control and 100% controlled by the HS?

Yet we know that John 3:5 refers to water baptism. And since Nicodemus and others like him rejected John's water baptism (Luke 7:30). Since men have been commanded to be water baptized, then accountability and responsibility lie with men who fail to obey this command.

No one was ever commanded to be baptized with the Holy Spirit so it cannot be obeyed by men. Only the Lord can baptize with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11) and men cannot not. So again, if John 3:5 refers to spirit baptism then blame accountability cannot be put on Nicodemus for something out of his control.


Heb 13:8 said:
Then why did Jesus promise Paradise to the thief if Jesus knew he hadn't died yet? Can Jesus make such a claim? Are you a teacher of the law Ernest?

Mark 2:1-12 A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

8Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11“I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

God bless

Matthew 9:6 when Jesus was ON EARTH as He was with the thief, He had been given power, authority to forgive sins of those whom He thought was deserving as the thief. BY forgiving the thief his sins meant salvation for the thief..forgiveness of sins = salvation. NO ONE today therefore can claim they were saved just like the thief for

1) Christ is not one earth today personally forgiving the sins of men.

2) After Christ died and ascended back to heaven He left behind His NT gospel as His authority in how men today are saved Romans 1:16. That NT gospel requires belief John 8:24 repentance Luke 13:3 confession Mt 10:32-33 and baptism Mark 16:16. These were not required of the thief for he did not live under the NT gospel making salvation different for him than for us today.

Again, this the very reason why faith only-ists run back to the OT to try and justify 'faith only-ism' for they cannot find a single example of salvation by faith only under the NT gospel of Christ. They cannot even prove the thief was saved by 'faith only' so why do they even bring him up?
 

BreadOfLife

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What are your thoughts on the word "saved" in the Greek in Rom 10:9.
Saved is saved.

If you are drowning in the ocean and a boat comes along to rescue you - and you get into the boat - you are SAVED.
HOWEVER - nobody is forcing you to stay ON that boat - and neither does God force us to stay with Him.
Oh we're doing something, believing and confessing BOL.
Soooo, you're NOT just believing?

If you are DOING something else - then this is cooperation with God's grace. This proves the Catholic position that WE need to do something in order to be saved.
Right, spiritual growth only comes if we cooperate. It has nothing to do with losing salvation. Your doctrine fails when you start throwing believers into hell because of disobedience.
This is a completely FALSE premise because the Church has never taught that ANYBODY is in Hell. That knowledge is for God alone.

As for losing our salvation (secure position) - the bible is filled with examples of this (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).
Holy spirit baptism BOL. Matt 24 is referring to the 70th week. It has nothing to do with the dispensation we're in. Enduring to the end in the 70th week has to do with martyrdom.

Pulpit Commentary - Verse 13. - Blah, blah, blah . . .
First of all - Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes about in the way JESUS prescribed - NOT in the way you and your man made Protestant "pulpit commentaries" do. Jesus prescribed WATER and Spirit (John 3:5) - NOT just Spirit.

As for enduring to the end in faith to the end - this is something that we ALL must do.
The rules don't "magically" change for end-time believers.[/QUOTE]
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Justified does not have different meanings...
However different THINGS ARE JUSTIFIED.

God Bless,
Taken

Romans 5:1------------------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24-----------------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify
Romans 6:16-17----------------- obeyed from the heart>>>>>justified/freed from sin


Justified/free from sin are used in the above verses in the same sense in all referring to salvation i/e., being freed from sin.

And since there is just one way to be save/freed from sin/justified, then that means faith = work = obeying from the heart.
 

BreadOfLife

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Until you acknowledge and understand the difference between a natural man and a converted man, conversations with you are a WOT.
Your problem is you do not know the difference between an UNsaved believer and a savED Believer.
And until YOU can understand that the commandments in Scripture are for the followers of God - you'll never understand what it means to be obedient to Him.
 

Taken

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And until YOU can understand that the commandments in Scripture are for the followers of God - you'll never understand what it means to be obedient to Him.

Per usual you are without understanding.

There are UNSAVED believers, to which Jesus directs commands.

And there are SAVED believers, to which Jesus direct commands.

And it is ONLY Saved Believers, to which "THEY" can faithfully follow the Lords PRECEPTS, which results in "THEM" receiving blessing and rewards.
 

BreadOfLife

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Per usual you are without understanding.
There are UNSAVED believers, to which Jesus directs commands.
And there are SAVED believers, to which Jesus direct commands.

And it is ONLY Saved Believers, to which "THEY" can faithfully follow the Lords PRECEPTS, which results in "THEM" receiving blessing and rewards.
NOBODY is completely saved until they are in Heaven.

As for the "unsaved believers" - I assume you are including the demons, correct (James 2:19)??
Commandments are and ALWAYS have been for God's faithful.

NOBODY else is expected to follow them.