Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

BreadOfLife · May 16, 2018

LC627 said:
If I am faithfully serving God then there is nothing to worry about. Yes we all stumble in life and sin but that is why Jesus is our Advocate. You don't add anything to your salvation - the only thing you added was the sin that killed Jesus to purchased it for you.

Romans 8:30 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
John 6:39 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

You just agreed with what I said. This is a thread about OSAS - which is an invention of Protestantism.
The Bible neither preaches this fallacy nor supports it.

Ernest T. Bass · May 16, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
No Ernest, the Grace dispensation we're in now is not the 1000 year reign with Christ. The 1000 years begins after the 70th week of Daniel.

Yes were are in that figurative 1000 years now, we are in the last days. Premillennialism is an invention of man.

Heb 13:8 said:
Right, just like Jesus promised the thief.

Again,
--the thief is not an example of NT salvation for he did not live under teh NT gospel Hebrew 9:16-17
--Therefore the thief could not have a belief that God 'hath' raised Christ from the dead Romans 10:9 no be baptized into the death of CHrist for Christ had not died nor been resurrected for the thief to follow these 2 NT requirements.
--There is not a person alive today who had their sins personally forgiven by Christ when Christ was "one earth", Matthew 9:6

Therefore no one today can make the claim they are saved in a like manner way as the thief.

Peter said in Acts 15:11 that Jew and Gentile are saved in a like manner way. The Jews in Acts 2:38 and Gentiles in Acts 10:47-48 were saved when they obeyed by being baptized in the name of the Lord fro remission of sins. This like manner way has not changed for us today. No one when the NT gospel began to be preached in Acts 2 till today are personally forgiven by Christ apart from His gospel (Romans 1:16) Men must obey His word, the gospel today in order to receive forgiveness.

Lastly, from information given in the Bible, it cannot be proven beyond any reasonable that the thief was saved by "faith only" anyway.

Heb 13:8 said:
No, the only requirement in the NT is believing and confessing. The OT requirements were put away with when Jesus died on the cross.

--one has to examine "all the counsel of God" Acts 20:27 to understand how man is saved. Romans 10:9 does not even begin to exhaust all the Bible has to say about salvation so this one verse cannot be plucked from the Bible while ignoring all the other verses that deal with salvation as Luke 13:3; Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 etc, etc. WHen it comes to salvation, a "one verse theology" always fails.

--again, the thief could not be saved per Romans 10:9 because this verse requires a man to believe " that God hath raised (past tense) him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" At the time of the thief hanging on his cross, Christ had not yet died or resurrected making Rom 10:9 an impossibility for him.

Heb 13:8 said:
Well how else will you get saved, H2O or the indwelling Holy Spirit?

The bible says baptism saves 1 Pet 3:21. Water baptism is the means by which men's sins are remitted by the blood of Christ, God does the work of removing men's sins when men have been buried in baptism.

There is not a single verse that says the sinner is saved when he is literally indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Such an idea makes the HS culpable for the lost.

Again, in John 3 Nicodemus had not been born again. Who then is to blame for his not being born again? John 3:5 is water baptism therefore it was Nicodemus' own fault for not being baptized of John. If John 3:5 has to do with some spirit baptism or being literally indwelt by the HS, then his not being born again would be the HS fault.

Heb 13:8 said:
That's right only the Lord can do that, and where is Jesus Christ right now? Is He dead, or is He baptizing people through belief in Him?

Christ is in heaven right now reigning over His kingdom the church. And Christ's authority for the church is found in His word, the NT gospel.

Heb 13:8 said:
No, He isn't. He's in heaven forgiving the sins of men.

There is no verse that says Christ is in heaven forgiving men independently from men obeying His word. If what you say is true, then you have invalidated the Bible making it a useless, needless book.

Heb 13:8 said:
Well, luckily Jesus is the judge of the heart and not Ernest Bas

This does not solve your faith only problem in having to run back to the OT to try and find justification for faith only. The fact one must run back to the OT because he cannot find faith only under the NT gospel is very telling.

Heb 13:8 said:
Again, what other scripture in 2 Cor 5:1-10 is referring to nonbelievers, and why is the Bema seat and the GWThrone 1000 years apart?

Already gave my answer on this. You have not proven there are multiple judgments, multiple judgment days or multiple judgers.

The 1000 years had nothing to do with Premill. for that has no biblical bases.

Taken · May 16, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Nobody is saved until they are in Heaven.

That is false, ACCORDING to Scripture, and ACCORDING to Jesus.

Eph 2:8
By Grace...ye ARE savED through Faith.

Luke 7:50
...thy FAITH hath savED thee...

Taken · May 16, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
...Scripture never guarantees that once we come to Christ and are born again that we are saved "forever" - UNLESS we endure in faithfulness.

Again you do not understand.

A man who IS "IN" Christ, is "IN" Christ forever.

A man WHO has rejected Jesus "IS" the Christ, "IS" NOT "IN" Christ.

A man WHO IS a JEW, believes "IN" God, BUT "NOT" Jesus. He MUST "ENDURE" "OBEDIENCE" "TO" the LAW, as did his forefathers, who BECAME saints "FOR" continuing "THEIR" OBEDIENCE TO the Law.

THAT does NOT APPLY to a man "IN" Christ!

A man "IN" Christ, continues forever "TO BE" "FAITHFUL" "TO" Christ Jesus......
"BY the POWER of the Indwelling Holy Spirit".

Once again your understanding MIXES what applies to a JEW, continuing with faith IN God,
BY HIS OWN POWER...
with a man WHO continues with faith IN Christ,
BY the POWER of the Indwelling Holy Spirit.

You must learn WHAT applies to who, and WHY, or you will continue in misunderstanding.

Taken · May 16, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
You just agreed with what I said. This is a thread about OSAS - which is an invention of Protestantism.
The Bible neither preaches this fallacy nor supports it.

OSAS is simply an UNDERSTANDING, just as the "TRINITY" is simply an UNDERSTANDING, also of mans invention, of truisms in short to the point MAN MADE TERMS.

OSAS, is has a very SPECIFIC APPLICATION, regarding the Gift of Salvation.

The Bible neither preaches this fallacy nor support it.

Sure it does.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I (Jesus) say unto you, he that believeth on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE.

Acts 16 : 31...
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

ONCE saved.....is SPECIFIC, that a man HAS RECEIVED Salvation, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE of the mans BELIEF and CONFESSION of heart felt BELIEF IN the Lord Jesus Christ.

That has ZERO application to a mans MINDS thoughts, believing today, changing his MIND tomorrow. <--- THAT IS NOT HOW a man RECEIVES the GIFT of Salvation FROM the Lord.

HOWEVER, if you were taught, (which appears to be the case, BY what you post)
LIKE a JEW, you would not PUT YOUR BELIEF "IN" Jesus, or believe "HE" "IS" the Christ....and would CONTINUE "keeping" yourself SUBJECT "TO" the Jewish Law, AND thus must ENDURE to the end in obedience TO THE LAW, in order ......TO BE SAVED.

Jesus IS reconciling NATURAL LIVING MEN TO HIM.......WHILE they ARE NATURAL and ALIVE.....

IOW....Jesus IS "CONVERTING" men WHILE they are STILL IN THEIR NATURAL FLESH alive upon the earth.

Your teaching IS to render DOUBT that one must WAIT TO SEE, before he can TRUST the Lords Word is True.

And others TRUST, "IF" they Believe in their heart and Confess their Belief....THE Lord SHALL Reconcile them unto Him, THEN, and forever KEEP them unto Him
....BY and THROUGH...HIS POWER.

LC627 · May 16, 2018

Taken said:
OSAS is simply an UNDERSTANDING, just as the "TRINITY" is simply an UNDERSTANDING, also of mans invention, of truisms in short to the point MAN MADE TERMS.

OSAS, is has a very SPECIFIC APPLICATION, regarding the Gift of Salvation.

Sure it does.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I (Jesus) say unto you, he that believeth on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE.

Acts 16 : 31...
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

ONCE saved.....is SPECIFIC, that a man HAS RECEIVED Salvation, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE of the mans BELIEF and CONFESSION of heart felt BELIEF IN the Lord Jesus Christ.

That has ZERO application to a mans MINDS thoughts, believing today, changing his MIND tomorrow. <--- THAT IS NOT HOW a man RECEIVES the GIFT of Salvation FROM the Lord.

HOWEVER, if you were taught, (which appears to be the case, BY what you post)
LIKE a JEW, you would not PUT YOUR BELIEF "IN" Jesus, or believe "HE" "IS" the Christ....and would CONTINUE "keeping" yourself SUBJECT "TO" the Jewish Law, AND thus must ENDURE to the end in obedience TO THE LAW, in order ......TO BE SAVED.

Jesus IS reconciling NATURAL LIVING MEN TO HIM.......WHILE they ARE NATURAL and ALIVE.....

IOW....Jesus IS "CONVERTING" men WHILE they are STILL IN THEIR NATURAL FLESH alive upon the earth.

Your teaching IS to render DOUBT that one must WAIT TO SEE, before he can TRUST the Lords Word is True.

And others TRUST, "IF" they Believe in their heart and Confess their Belief....THE Lord SHALL Reconcile them unto Him, THEN, and forever
KEEP them unto Him
....BY and THROUGH...HIS POWER.[/QUOTE

Let me add, if I may, The Holy Spirit is the SEAL of salvation so if you have the Holy Spirit then you are SEALED and can rest assured in your salvation. IF you had to wait to see if you were saved until after death, then you apparently must believe that believers cannot have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. To have the Holy Spirit is to be saved.

Heb 13:8 · May 16, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
And a "gift" can be rejected - even AFTER receiving it.

No, it's only rejected through unbelief.

Jhn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

BreadOfLife said:
The Scriptures NEVER indicate that a believer can "never fully" walk away from God.

That's because you're studying the Gospel through works salvation and not Grace salvation. It was paid at the cross BOL.

BreadOfLife said:
Faith = belief + Obedience (works)
One without the other is worthless (James 2:14-26) . . .

Which is referring to Godly righteousness, not salvation.

BreadOfLife said:
And again - you cannot hope to be saved if you simply "believe" and live a life of disobedience (Matt. 7:21-23).

Which is referring to works salvation, the same doctrine you hold to.

BreadOfLife said:
The resurrection is of the BODY of the believer. Our BODIES will be glorified and reunited with our souls at the resurrection. The Bible CLEARLY states that there ARE souls in Heaven.

Rev. 5:8 tells us that the Elders is Heaven are taking our prayers before God.
Rev. 6:9-10 tells us that the souls of the Martyrs are in Heaven crying out for justice.

BOL, the Hebrew and Greek translation for spirit is "wind/breath". Believers are not up in Heaven right now living as wind and breath. Body, soul and spirit cannot live apart from each other.

BreadOfLife said:
Heb. 9:27 states that we are judged immediately after we die. There is the Particular Judgement (Heb. 9:27) and the General Judgement(Matt. 25:31-46).

Where is the word immediate in Heb 9:27? Nowhere.

BreadOfLife said:
John 1 - Jesus is Baptized in WATER - ACTUAL Water

He did this in order to fulfill all righteousness, but after me comes one...

Matt 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Matt 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

God bless

Taken · May 17, 2018

LC627 ~

That is correct.

And it is nearly impossible to reason with someone who has been generationally steeped in ...."our church is the first, the oldest Christian church"....na na, as some kind of pseudo, carte blanch rendering that "they" are "right" and everyone else is "wrong".

When one examines Biblical History, the INTENT, was to relieve the Jews FROM being SUBJECT "TO" the Law, via traditions and customs, and them hoping they have spent their whole lives BEING subject to the LAW, in a manner Pleasing to God, that at their natural lifes end, He WOULD SAVE THEM....

Christ "IS" the WAY for a man TO receive his Gift of Salvation "NOW".... and "instead" of spending his whole LIFE "trying" really hard, by "his own Power" to BE OBEDIENT ... "TO" the Law.....

A man can become "SUBJECT TO" Christ...and kept IN FAITH "TO" Christ ONLY, "BY" the Lords POWER within the man.

The whole scenario FLIPS....
A man no longer Spends the rest of his life "Trying really hard" to Follow a LAW...(that BTW was proved, impossible for a man to do).....

But instead a man IN Christ, IS PREPARED TO, spend his TIME, SERVING, EXALTING, GLORIFYING, the Lord.

SOME people, miss the understanding, and land in A condunrum of saying all the NEW TESTAMENT "words"....while "teaching" what Jesus was "teaching" IS ACCORDING to obedience to "OLD TESTAMENT" Laws...
When it isn't.

They HAVE to "hang on to the OT", to continue "bragging rights", of the FIRST church...

It JUST isn't in Scripture, to believe the VAIL IS done away with....AND yet STILL remains, which IS IMO, inanutshell is what Catholics teach.

2 Cor 3:14

Taken · May 17, 2018

LC~ 627

Welcome to the forum, and best wishes on your chosen course of study.

God Bless,
Taken

BreadOfLife · May 17, 2018

Taken said:
That is false, ACCORDING to Scripture, and ACCORDING to Jesus.

Eph 2:8
By Grace...ye ARE savED through Faith.

Luke 7:50
...thy FAITH hath savED thee...

Uh huh - except for the following cases . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind, deaf and dumb person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

BreadOfLife · May 17, 2018

Taken said:
Again you do not understand.
A man who IS "IN" Christ, is "IN" Christ forever.
A man WHO has rejected Jesus "IS" the Christ, "IS" NOT "IN" Christ.
A man WHO IS a JEW, believes "IN" God, BUT "NOT" Jesus. He MUST "ENDURE" "OBEDIENCE" "TO" the LAW, as did his forefathers, who BECAME saints "FOR" continuing "THEIR" OBEDIENCE TO the Law.
THAT does NOT APPLY to a man "IN" Christ!
A man "IN" Christ, continues forever "TO BE" "FAITHFUL" "TO" Christ Jesus......
"BY the POWER of the Indwelling Holy Spirit".

Once again your understanding MIXES what applies to a JEW, continuing with faith IN God,
BY HIS OWN POWER...
with a man WHO continues with faith IN Christ,
BY the POWER of the Indwelling Holy Spirit.
You must learn WHAT applies to who, and WHY, or you will continue in misunderstanding.

That's NOT what the Bible teaches.
In fact - it warns that ANY person - born again or not - can fall away and be lost forever . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind, deaf and dumb person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

BreadOfLife · May 17, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
No, it's only rejected through unbelief.

I totally agree.

A person believes and has a full, experiential knowledge (epignosis) of Christ - then falls away and STOPS believing. This is where they LOSE everything (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Heb 13:8 said:
That's because you're studying the Gospel through works salvation and not Grace salvation. It was paid at the cross BOL.

That's NOT what the Bible teaches.

We were Redeemed at the cross (PAID FOR).
We weren't SAVED at the cross.

Somebody's been teaching you some really BAD theology . . .

Heb 13:8 said:
Which is referring to Godly righteousness, not salvation.

And you cannot be saved WITHOUT Godly righteousness.

Again - BAD theology . . .

Heb 13:8 said:
Which is referring to works salvation, the same doctrine you hold to.

No - I hold to the Biblical principle that we must be obedient to God in order to be saved.
YOUR flawed system involves man-made guarantees that the Word of God simply doesn't offer . . .

Heb 13:8 said:
BOL, the Hebrew and Greek translation for spirit is "wind/breath". Believers are not up in Heaven right now living as wind and breath. Body, soul and spirit cannot live apart from each other.

Soooo, according to YOU - the Bible is full of lies because MY Bible says the following:
Rev. 5:8 tells us that the Elders in Heaven are taking our prayers before God.
Rev. 6:9-10 tells us that the souls of the Martyrs are in Heaven crying out for justice.

Heb 13:8 said:
Where is the word immediate in Heb 9:27? Nowhere.

And so is the term "Soul-Sleep" my heretical friend . . .

Heb 13:8 said:
He did this in order to fulfill all righteousness, but after me comes one...

Matt 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Matt 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
God bless

Uh huh.

Sooooo, tell me - WHY did Jesus and the Apostles Baptize people (John 3:22) with Water (H2O)??
WHY did Jesus tell Nicodemus that we must be born again of WATER (H2O) and Spirit (John 3:5)??

I eagerly await your response . . .

BreadOfLife · May 17, 2018

Taken said:
OSAS is simply an UNDERSTANDING, just as the "TRINITY" is simply an UNDERSTANDING, also of mans invention, of truisms in short to the point MAN MADE TERMS.

OSAS, is has a very SPECIFIC APPLICATION, regarding the Gift of Salvation.

Uhhhh, no.
The Trinity is a doctrinal and dogmatic position for ALL Christians - just as OSAS is for the Protestant.

Taken said:
Sure it does.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I (Jesus) say unto you, he that believeth on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE.

Acts 16 : 31...
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

ONCE saved.....is SPECIFIC, that a man HAS RECEIVED Salvation, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE of the mans BELIEF and CONFESSION of heart felt BELIEF IN the Lord Jesus Christ.

That has ZERO application to a mans MINDS thoughts, believing today, changing his MIND tomorrow. <--- THAT IS NOT HOW a man RECEIVES the GIFT of Salvation FROM the Lord.

HOWEVER, if you were taught, (which appears to be the case, BY what you post)
LIKE a JEW, you would not PUT YOUR BELIEF "IN" Jesus, or believe "HE" "IS" the Christ....and would CONTINUE "keeping" yourself SUBJECT "TO" the Jewish Law, AND thus must ENDURE to the end in obedience TO THE LAW, in order ......TO BE SAVED.

Jesus IS reconciling NATURAL LIVING MEN TO HIM.......WHILE they ARE NATURAL and ALIVE.....

IOW....Jesus IS "CONVERTING" men WHILE they are STILL IN THEIR NATURAL FLESH alive upon the earth.

Your teaching IS to render DOUBT that one must WAIT TO SEE, before he can TRUST the Lords Word is True.

And others TRUST, "IF" they Believe in their heart and Confess their Belief....THE Lord SHALL Reconcile them unto Him, THEN, and forever KEEP them unto Him
....BY and THROUGH...HIS POWER.

WRONG.

The verse you quoted are conditional. We ARE saved, provided we remain in faith.
Once we lose that - we LOSE salvation.

Oh, by the way - NEITHER of them indicate that this is an eternal guarantee no matter what WE do or don't do. You'll have to do better than this . . .

LC627 · May 17, 2018

Salvation is not a balance with good works on one side and Jesus on the other. Christ is the anchor that holds us.
Clearly, salvation is by the grace of God, not works, and if you are doing anything to maintain salvation then you have a reason to boast which takes the focus off Christ. A true believer will remain faithful. This does not mean they won't struggle in their faith or face a challenging setback, we all do in life and if it appears that they have left then at some point they will return or they were not a "part of us" to begin with.

1 John 3:9 -No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 5:18 - We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

BreadOfLife · May 17, 2018

LC627 said:
Salvation is not a balance with good works on one side and Jesus on the other. Christ is the anchor that holds us.
Clearly, salvation is by the grace of God, not works, and if you are doing anything to maintain salvation then you have a reason to boast which takes the focus off Christ. A true believer will remain faithful. This does not mean they won't struggle in their faith or face a challenging setback, we all do in life and if it appears that they have left then at some point they will return or they were not a "part of us" to begin with.

1 John 3:9 -No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 5:18 - We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Salvation is granted to the faithful.
Faith = belief + obedience (works).

One without the other is worthless. Even the demons believe (James 2:19) and even the unbelievers do works (Matt. 7:21).

Taken · May 17, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Uh huh - except for the following cases . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

How many times do you require being told and explained?

1) The Lord Jesus GAVE HIS BODILY LIFE, which Bodily LIFE IS BLOOD, FOR the Life and Salvation of the World.

2) The World IS inclusive of ALL men.

3) ding, ding, ding....HELLO....THE GIFT WAS "PAID" FOR by Jesus!!!!!!

4) ding, ding, ding....HELLO....THE GIFT IS PROVIDED "FOR"....him, her, you, me, us, them, she, he.....ALL People.

5) The GIFT is NOT "FORCED" on ANYONE TO "TAKE" "RECEIVE" "HAVE" "POSESS" the Gift.

6) The PROTOCAL FOR ANYONE to RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation IS provided IN Scriptural teaching.

7) Men can believe, stop believing, believe, stop believing, believe, stop believing.......
THAT IS precisely WHAT WISHY WASHY "MINDS" of men DO!

8) God IS not concerned with what a CARNAL MIND IS thinking, believing, doubting, denying, thinking, believing, logically concluding, thinking, believing, doubting, wondering, thinking, AGREEING TO!!

9) EVERY MAN has the OPTION to hear, believe or not.

10) Every man WHO hears, continues to hear, BEGINS believing, CONTINUES believing, UNTIL "THEIR HEARTS THOUGHTS BELIEVE............AND........THEY CONFESS their true hearts Belief IN Christ the Lord Jesus.......

11) "THEN" they become RECIPIENTS of the GIFT OF SALVATION!!!!!!!

12) "THEN" they become RECEIPIENTS of Gods SEED!!!!!!!!

13) "THEN" they become RECIPIENTS of "NEW HEARTS"!!!!!!!

14) "THEN" they become RECIPIENTS of Gods "INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT".

So, HELLO.....THEIR OLD HEART IS KAPUT!!
It is NOT there TO "DECIDE" to Reject the Lord, Reject His gift of Salvation, Reject His gift of His Seed, Reject the Holy Spirit being WITHIN the man!!!!!

A MAN MUST DECIDE, CHOOSE, ELECT, AGREE to RECEIVE the Lords Gifts......
And "ONCE" a man DOES....the GIFT is NOT "TAKEN BACK"..

A man LOSES HIS (already PAID FOR) gift.........HELLO.....
Ding, Ding, Ding.......

BY NOT "TAKING THE GIFT" !!!!!!

Sheesh!!!!

LC627 · May 17, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Salvation is granted to the faithful.
Faith = belief + obedience (works).

One without the other is worthless. Even the demons believe (James 2:19) and even the unbelievers do works (Matt. 7:21).

Of course the demons believe, they were once angels and were in Heaven, they have seen God and the glory of Heaven. This scripture is taken out of context. Demons can't repent, their fate is sealed and they are not humans - This is different than the state of humans. The works James is talking about is the fruit of righteousness. If we are Christians then clearly we will be showing fruit of the life we have in Christ.

Taken · May 17, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Uhhhh, no.
The Trinity is a doctrinal and dogmatic position for ALL Christians -

just as OSAS is for the Protestant.

Interesting ~ Protestants TRUST the Lords Word is TRUE....and apparently Catholics WAIT TO SEE.

WRONG

Click to expand...

.

FUNNY...Accusations do not make me wrong.

The verse you quoted are conditional.

NOPE, not for me. I have ALREADY MET THE CONDITIONS to BE "IN" Christ and Christ "IN" me FOREVER..and NOTHING can UNDO that and MAKE the Lord a LIAR!!!

We ARE saved,

No. NOt "WE"...."YOU", apparently "Catholics" and "JEWS" who have NOT submitted "TO" Christ.

provided we remain in faith.

I CAN NOT DEFLECT FROM FAITH....
Which IS PRECISELY WHY, I CAN NOT SIN.

MY FAITH IS NOT KEPT BY "MY POWER", Like you teach, YOU KEEP in faith BY YOUR power.

I "AM KEPT" IN FAITHFULNESS TO the Lord, "BY" HIS POWER.

I Learned the LESSON;
MEN ARE WEAK,
MEN CAN NOT KEEP the LAW,
MEN CAN NOT FULFILL KEEPING IN FAITH,
MEN CAN DO NOTHING without the Lords POWER.

I WILLINGLY, chose and elected TO GIVE MY LIFE "TO" Christ.

I TRUST He is FAITHFUL, and TOOK MY LIFE, (which is MY BLOOD), as I TOOK HIS LIFE (which is His BLOOD), as His Payment for ME to be forgiven and RECEIVE His Gifts, of Salvation and a New heart, and His Seed, and a new spirit AND His Holy Spirit with me FOREVER.

FOREVER DUDE...!!

You can KEEP obeying the Laws, or doing works you think makes God a jolly man....BUT Dude...IF YOU ARE NOT IN Christ, your works are MOOT!

And men that are NOT Saved, NOT born again ARE NOT "IN" Christ!

And Works THAT I DO, that glorify God, hey, God has a "rewards" program. He keeps track, and shall reward my works, Justly.

And Works I do, that DO NOT Glorify His Great Name....THEY shall be burned....and my CONSEQUENCE, shall be to LOSE OUT on rewards, I could have had.

Once we lose that - we LOSE salvation.

No, Dude. "IF" YOU DO NOT RECEIVE the GIft of Salvation...WHILE BODLIY ALIVE...You lose it!

Oh, by the way - NEITHER of them indicate that this is an eternal guarantee no matter what WE do or don't do. You'll have to do better than this . . .

No, I do not have to DO BETTER than Jesus' Word and MY Trust IN Him.

Taken · May 17, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Salvation is granted to the faithful.
Faith = belief + obedience (works).

FAITH = A GIFT FROM GOD, FOR a mans Belief.

THE FAITHFUL = those WHO HAVE given their life TO GOD, and GOD has GIFTED THEM WITH FOREVER LIFE and FOREVER FAITHFULNESS TO HIM!!

One without the other is worthless. Even the demons believe (James 2:19) and even the unbelievers do works (Matt. 7:21).

So, lots of people BELIEVE....BUT have FAILED to COMMIT and become RECONCILED!

Salvation IS NOT a GIFT for angels.
They do not require SAVING. THey were created HOLY.
And there IS no Salvation provision FOR angels who have fallen away from God.

So, unbelievers DO WORKS? They do not Glorify Gods Name, nor shall those works be rewarded.

BreadOfLife · May 17, 2018

Taken said:
How many times do you require being told and explained?
1) The Lord Jesus GAVE HIS BODILY LIFE, which Bodily LIFE IS BLOOD, FOR the Life and Salvation of the World.
2) The World IS inclusive of ALL men.
3) ding, ding, ding....HELLO....THE GIFT WAS "PAID" FOR by Jesus!!!!!!
4) ding, ding, ding....HELLO....THE GIFT IS PROVIDED "FOR"....him, her, you, me, us, them, she, he.....ALL People.
5) The GIFT is NOT "FORCED" on ANYONE TO "TAKE" "RECEIVE" "HAVE" "POSESS" the Gift.
6) The PROTOCAL FOR ANYONE to RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation IS provided IN Scriptural teaching.
7) Men can believe, stop believing, believe, stop believing, believe, stop believing.......
THAT IS precisely WHAT WISHY WASHY "MINDS" of men DO!
8) God IS not concerned with what a CARNAL MIND IS thinking, believing, doubting, denying, thinking, believing, logically concluding, thinking, believing, doubting, wondering, thinking, AGREEING TO!!
9) EVERY MAN has the OPTION to hear, believe or not.
10) Every man WHO hears, continues to hear, BEGINS believing, CONTINUES believing, UNTIL "THEIR HEARTS THOUGHTS BELIEVE............AND........THEY CONFESS their true hearts Belief IN Christ the Lord Jesus.......
11) "THEN" they become RECIPIENTS of the GIFT OF SALVATION!!!!!!!
12) "THEN" they become RECEIPIENTS of Gods SEED!!!!!!!!
13) "THEN" they become RECIPIENTS of "NEW HEARTS"!!!!!!!
14) "THEN" they become RECIPIENTS of Gods "INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT".
So, HELLO.....THEIR OLD HEART IS KAPUT!!
It is NOT there TO "DECIDE" to Reject the Lord, Reject His gift of Salvation, Reject His gift of His Seed, Reject the Holy Spirit being WITHIN the man!!!!!
A MAN MUST DECIDE, CHOOSE, ELECT, AGREE to RECEIVE the Lords Gifts......
And "ONCE" a man DOES....the GIFT is NOT "TAKEN BACK"..
A man LOSES HIS (already PAID FOR) gift.........HELLO.....
Ding, Ding, Ding.......
BY NOT "TAKING THE GIFT" !!!!!!
Sheesh!!!!

And you keep ignoring the fact that once the gift is received - it can be returned.

EVERYBODY is invited to receive the gift of Redemption and be saved.
EVERYBODY is also free to throw it away after having received it.

That's what the BIBLE says . . .

Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads