What is the trinity?

IanLC · Dec 5, 2012

Maybe there is a great misunderstanding. What are you asking for? Im not understanding the question? I fell that I have answered and many others have answered your question. But what is the question? What are you asking simply? Explain to me break it done for me.

Raeneske · Dec 5, 2012

Spirit Covenant said:
Can anyone just answer my question?

Is there "one scripture" in the bible where the father is manifested other than as the son?

1 Timothy 3
16 ----- God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

John 14

9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Timothy 3:16 is referring to Christ, and not the Father.

As for John 14:9, maybe this will help:

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Okay, so how does this harmonize with John 14:9? Jesus is stating in both times that while He was in the world, they have seen the father. While Jesus is praying, He says the same thing, except differently, that He manifested His Father's name in the World. But, what does His "name" mean?

Exodus 34:5-7 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

The name of the Lord here, means the character of the Lord. Intolerant towards sin (by no means, clearing the guilty), but merciful, gracious, and longsuffering towards the sinner. Another example of this can be found here:

Exodus 23:20-21 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Groundzero · Dec 6, 2012

Spirit Covenant said:
Is there one scripture in the bible where the father is manifested other than as the son?

1 Timothy 3
16 ----- God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Not that I know of.

Pelaides · Dec 6, 2012

Can anyone just answer my question?

Is there "one scripture" in the bible where the father is manifested other than as the son?

1 Timothy 3
16 ----- God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

John 14

9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Lets look at Genesis 18:1,2 "And the lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mam-re:and he sat in his tent door in the heat of the day;and he lifted up his eyes and looked;and lo,three men stood by him:and when he saw them,he ran to meet them from the tent door,and bowed himself towards the ground".

Some interpret this as being God with 2 of his Angels
Some say its Jesus ,God,THe holy Spirit.

Rex · Dec 6, 2012

Pelaides said:
Some interpret this as being God with 2 of his Angels
Some say its Jesus ,God,THe holy Spirit.

John 8
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[n] going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

I'm a Jesus and two Angels believer.

I believe when the Father who is Spirit said let there be light there stood Jesus the first physical manifestation in creation. The Physiacl manifestation of Father God the Spirit. And threw this physical Jesus all creation was called in to existence.

I Am the light of the world John 8:12 John 1:9 Psalm 36:9 Isa 42:6 Isa 49:6
And the word became flesh and dwelt among us

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.[b]
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Col
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

dragonfly · Dec 6, 2012

Hi Spirit Covenant,

Is there "one scripture" in the bible where the father is manifested other than as the son?

Exodus 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

Click to expand...

Rex · Dec 6, 2012

dragonfly said:
Hi Spirit Covenant,

Is there "one scripture" in the bible where the father is manifested other than as the son?

Exodus 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

Click to expand...

No offense intended DF but If that is true then we have a lot of verses to rethink.

Ex 33
17 So the Lord said to Moses, “I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”
18 And he said, “Please, show me Your glory.”
19 Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” 20 But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.” 21 And the Lord said, “Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. 22 So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by. 23 Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.”

John 1:18
John 6:46
1 Tim 6:16
1 John 4:12 and 20
John 12:45
John 4:23-24

Click to expand...

dragonfly · Dec 6, 2012

Hi Rex,

I thought you would say that was a manifestation of the Son...

Wasn't it?

Rex · Dec 6, 2012

dragonfly said:
Hi Rex,

I thought you would say that was a manifestation of the Son...

Wasn't it?

The scripture to me is clear no man has seen the Father he is Spirit He existed before a single partial of matter was ever created.
When He Spoke the "Word" the Word became flesh, the word He spoke was Let Their Be "Light" John 8:12. Look at how many times John uses light in the opening of his book 7 times.

The Spirit of God when He spoke manifest Himself in the physical "atoms" this was the birth of the one we know as Jesus. This is He whom its says in Col that all things were created by. Any place in the bible you see God it is the physical manifestation of the Father, Jesus. He walked in the garden--->> Jesus.
Read Proverbs chapter 8 there are other creations "wisdom" that were brought forth before the earth as well. But Jesus was the first.

Threw Him the Father, Jesus is the physical body of God.

Rev 22:5
The light

dragonfly · Dec 6, 2012

When God said, 'Let there be light', He created light. It is created light. It is physical. It is not uncreated light.

This is He whom its says in Col that all things were created by.

Indeed.

The Word facilitated creation, before He was made flesh.

Are we on the same page? (Btw, I'm not offended that you might have a fresh way of expressing truth.)

Rex · Dec 6, 2012

dragonfly said:
When God said, 'Let there be light', He created light. It is created light. It is physical. It is not uncreated light.

Indeed.

The Word facilitated creation, before He was made flesh.

Are we on the same page? (Btw, I'm not offended that you might have a fresh way of expressing truth.)

Read the commentary I just posted here http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17188-question-about-faith/#entry176701

The statement right after the bold

dragonfly · Dec 6, 2012

Hi Rex,

I read it, but I'm not quite sure what you wanted me to notice, within the context of our discussion.

Rex · Dec 6, 2012

Its not important, but here it is speaking of this topic, understanding The true Father and Jesus relationship
I just thought it was interesting that the reply over there contained the same thing were talking about here.

Just so everyone knows No Man has seen God the Father;

Thus low, of his own will, he stooped from the glory he had with the Father before the world was.

Moses asked to see His glory
Moses seen this glory "the afterglow of it as He passed".

Ex 33
17 So the Lord said to Moses, “I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”
18 And he said, “Please, show me Your glory.”
19 Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” 20 But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.” 21 And the Lord said, “Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. 22 So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by. 23 Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.”

Some day we will behold the full Glory of the Lord. We will know as we have been known.

Groundzero · Dec 7, 2012

ZebraHug said:
Not that I know of.

Actually, correction. There is.

Moses and the burning bush, the pillar of cloud, the pillar of fire, etc.

Jesus was the ULTIMATE manifestation.

Spirit Covenant · Dec 9, 2012

Rex said:
The scripture to me is clear no man has seen the Father he is Spirit He existed before a single partial of matter was ever created.
When He Spoke the "Word" the Word became flesh, the word He spoke was Let Their Be "Light" John 8:12. Look at how many times John uses light in the opening of his book 7 times.

The Spirit of God when He spoke manifest Himself in the physical "atoms" this was the birth of the one we know as Jesus. This is He whom its says in Col that all things were created by. Any place in the bible you see God it is the physical manifestation of the Father, Jesus. He walked in the garden--->> Jesus.
Read Proverbs chapter 8 there are other creations "wisdom" that were brought forth before the earth as well. But Jesus was the first.

Threw Him the Father, Jesus is the physical body of God.

Rev 22:5
The light

Amen Rex

That is exactly my point of asking this question. The Father is Spirit and no man has seen Him except manifested in Christ . My next question is,

How does The Father, who is Spirit, differ As a person from the Holly Spirit of God?

.

Rex · Dec 9, 2012

Spirit Covenant said:
Amen Rex

That is exactly my point of asking this question. The Father is Spirit and no man has seen Him except manifested in Christ . My next question is,

How does The Father, who is Spirit, differ As a person from the Holly Spirit of God?

.

Thats a great question and one that has been floating around in my mind for the last year or so.
I suppose it may be time to deal with the question. I'm open for suggestions and well see where the Lord leads.
Gen says the Sprite of God was hovering over the waters. God said, not the Spirit but ---> God spoke.

The next time I like to remember when God spoke "the father" was the ten commandments, when the Father speaks all of creation hears and I believe speaking the 10 commandments changed the very fabric of heaven and earth. 10 ordinances were set in stone, a definite line was established threw all creation between right and wrong before God.

This is exactly why in another post I commented that the Father all threw out my walk has always held a special place, a reverence, my mouth mind and heart are silent before Him. It's just the way the Lord has brought me up. He has also closed my ears and heart to particular teaching when I was younger, the Spirit was then saying no don't listen, it has no place here. Today I understand why, but I don't like openly speaking about it, its better that another draws it out.

dragonfly · Dec 9, 2012

Has anyone looked at the Bible with God's names, here? The only name for God used in Genesis 1, is Elohiym.

I have not read the thread, so will restrain my comments to

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it to you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it to you.

Rex · Dec 9, 2012

Don't hold my feet to fire just yet but I suspect that the Father exist outside of the Heavens and the Earth,
That threw His Son He has made known Himself as well as all things in heaven and earth being created by/threw the Son, and in the power of His Spirit He touches the creation. Knowing them and searching their hearts.

That is If we can confirm the Spirit of truth, and the Spirit of God the father are one in the same.
I suspect they my be one in the same, so If everyone will excuse me for thinking out loud.
Heres some food for thought just the same, and maybe the Lord will bring something to remembrance you can share.

15 “If you love Me, keep[d] My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

The basic concept of the Spirit is from the Father threw Christ to us forming a link
Our relationship to Christ threw the Spirit may be a similar link from Christ to the Father. Christ and all creation to the Father that exists outside creation.
But Christ has seen and been with the Father even before he was born a man for our sake.
He was in the Father before creation. Like I tried to describe it earlier Jesus is the manifestation of the Father in the creation.
Jesus confirms this in the new testament,

John 8
19 Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?”
Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.”

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

dragonfly · Dec 9, 2012

Let me add these two allusions to 'the Spirit of Christ' for consideration.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Don't hold my feet to fire just yet but I suspect that the Father exist outside of the Heavens and the Earth

If there was a 'time' when only Elohiym existed, He can exist entirely outside creation if He so desires. But... that is not what has been revealed in Colossians 1 and other verses.

Rex · Dec 9, 2012

dragonfly said:
Let me add these two allusions to 'the Spirit of Christ' for consideration.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

If there was a 'time' when only Elohiym existed, He can exist entirely outside creation if He so desires. But... that is not what has been revealed in Colossians 1 and other verses.

Then how about we sort out Elohim and Yahweh first

And please don't insinuate I have contradicted myself.

Our relationship to Christ threw the Spirit may be a similar link from Christ to the Father. Christ and all creation to the Father that exists outside creation.
But Christ has seen and been with the Father even before he was born a man for our sake.
He was in the Father before creation. Like I tried to describe it earlier Jesus is the manifestation of the Father in the creation.
Jesus confirms this in the new testament,

For the sake of avoiding this distinction which is a study in itself I refrained from using Elohim and Yahweh
Now you apply one to the father and one to the son, so were on the same page, you injected the term define it.

It has been my basic understanding that Elohim is the plural and Yahweh is the singular

What is the trinity?

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