Do you pray in tongues?

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Ac28

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Assume that you are addressing 10 people, each of which is from a different country and all speak a different language. When you address them in your native language, each of the 10 will simultaneously hear you speak in their own native language.

If you can't do this, you can't speak in tongues.
 

Truth7t7

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Assume that you are addressing 10 people, each of which is from a different country and all speak a different language. When you address them in your native language, each of the 10 will simultaneously hear you speak in their own native language.

If you can't do this, you can't speak in tongues.
Jesus Is My Lord And Savior, My Personal Testimony Is True.

I Received The Gift Of Speaking In Other Tongues At 18 Years Old, And It's Still The Same 40 Years Later.
 

Hidden In Him

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The scripture is plain and simple just as Grace put it, the five foolish virgins were/are not part of the Church, as in verse (12) below Jesus clearly steates (I Know You Not) "Unsaved", they didn't make the cut!

The parable represents the saved and unsaved being mixed together, and only half were genuine believers.

You think the phony faith healers, practicing homosexuals, fornicators, adulterers, playing church are gonna make the cut?

Jesus is coming for his bride without spot and blemish!

Matthew 7:22-22 below is a parallel, many will cry they knew Jesus through good works, he will deny them, just as the five foolish virgins.

(I Know You Not)

Matthew 25 King James Version (KJV)
25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

(I Never Knew You)

Matthew 7:22-23KJV
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

My apologies for not responding to this at the time, but it was too much to explain. In case you missed it, I explain much of what my answer would have been in light of scripture in the following interpretation I gave to ByGrace over a dream she had back in the 80s (see Posts #29 and #30). If and whenever you have time, go over it and then we could pick it up again here.

Blessings in Christ!
 
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Truth7t7

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I had a long running debate with a more scholarly gentleman at another forum over whether the Spirit of God ever prophesies anything "negative" over his people or not, or only speaks words of encouragement. I was astonished at his position, as it is my experience that often the Spirit of God uses dreams and visions to warn his people about something that is coming if they are not careful. Maybe its because many Christians are not as close to God as they should be, but a high percentage come in the form of warnings, which many dismiss as "nightmares." They are more than that.

I laugh about it now, but one of the proponents of this "edification only" theory actually posted on another thread telling a young guy not to believe a prophetess who had prophesied that there was a great calling on this kid's life. The entire forum seemed to agree with her, so I bounced in to say, "If God can't prophesy anything bad OR good over someone's life, what on earth does He have left?" (LoL). I've gotten to know the young man since then, and he definitely does have a call on his life. Thank God I said something.

About A.A. Allen, think you could post a link for it on the dream and vision thread? I'm not familiar with it yet.
Amen
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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To every truth of God...there will always be a counterfeit..Satan sees to that..
But we do not "throw out the truth" just because some people fall for the counterfeit!! Some always have, and always will.
That is why we are told to "discern the spirits".
God why gave us the gift of 'Discerning of spirits' to the Church..

1 John 4:1-6 gave us a guideline in testing the spirits and that is by knowing that Jesus Christ is in you, you would know that the spirit coming over you apart from salvation is NOT the Holy Spirit as the results can be as he explained it in verses 5 & 6 in how those that err will speak as the world speak in their supernatural tongue which cannot come with interpretation because it is gibberish as in vain & profane babbling.

Isaiah 8:19 is God's words testifying to that supernatural tongue which is gibberish as in vain & profane babbling. Since you know God is not the copycat of Satan's tongues, then His gift of tongues CAN ONLY BE of other men's lips to speak unto the people as Paul said plainly in 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 so that when people point to receiving that spirit after a sign as the world receives their spirits, as standing apart from salvation, believers will not go after.

Our witness and the receiving of the Holy Spirit's witness can only pertain to the gospel of Jesus Christ; 2 Thessalonians 3:13-15 There is no other calling nor any other baptism with the Holy Spirit les there be more than one calling and more than one gospel that takes away the glory of Jesus Christ at our salvation ( Ephesians 4:4-6 ).

So pray normally and ask Jesus Christ for help to open your eyes to the truth that you never did need tongues for God the Father to know everything and don't be tempted to chase after the Holy Spirit to receive after any other sensational signs in the flesh either.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

This other calling just to get tongues does not stop there... so discern that as to why the Holy Spirit is being received after that in an atmosphere where believers lose self control and fall down and do CRAZY STUFF WHEN YOU KNOW God is NOT the author of confusion as in ALL churches of the saints.

No good tree will produce an evil fruit and no evil tree will produce a good fruit; therefore any self proclaimed receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation at the calling of the gospel even if they only claim the second blessing only, it is NOT the Holy Spirit and that is why that kind of tongues is not God's gift of tongues when it was already in the world before Penetcost's God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

.
 

Hidden In Him

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It appears a lot has gone on in this thread since that last time I visited it... So let me start here:
I fail to see the point as well as the benefit other than to indirectly exalt tongue speakers higher than non-tongue speakers when it comes to prayer.
As much as tongue speakers brag about the closeness of using tongues as a prayer language, that is them separating themselves from the non-tongue speakers as if God does not love them as much as the tongue speakers, even though they never come out and say that, but they are coloring God's use of tongues as selective when for private use and not to be blessed by all when Paul says that is what the gifts are for and why God's gift of tongues will come with interpretation when used in the assembly.

You seem to really pound away on this argument, as if utterly convinced of it.

So let me ask you: Since I too use tongues as a prayer language, how do you know for certain that I am doing so simply to "separate myself from non-tongue speakers as if God does not love them as much as me"? What makes you certain my motivation is to "brag" and "exalt tongue talkers"?
 
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little-dove

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Yes, I pray in tongues often ... it is not something I think about doing, but happens as I go into deep communion with God through Holy Spirit. I always feel edified, refreshed, uplifted .... heavy burdens are lighter, knowing Holy Spirit prayed through me, the will of God. When I am in prayer, and tongues come, the farthest thing from my mind is that it makes me somehow "better than" someone who isn't praying in tongues. It's more about my one-on-one relationship with Him in that moment. I'm grateful that Holy Spirit helps us when our words are lacking. Sometimes we don't know what to pray ... but the Spirit of Truth ... Holy Spirit, knows what we have need of!
 

Truth7t7

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1 John 4:1-6 gave us a guideline in testing the spirits and that is by knowing that Jesus Christ is in you, you would know that the spirit coming over you apart from salvation is NOT the Holy Spirit as the results can be as he explained it in verses 5 & 6 in how those that err will speak as the world speak in their supernatural tongue which cannot come with interpretation because it is gibberish as in vain & profane babbling.

Isaiah 8:19 is God's words testifying to that supernatural tongue which is gibberish as in vain & profane babbling. Since you know God is not the copycat of Satan's tongues, then His gift of tongues CAN ONLY BE of other men's lips to speak unto the people as Paul said plainly in 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 so that when people point to receiving that spirit after a sign as the world receives their spirits, as standing apart from salvation, believers will not go after.

Our witness and the receiving of the Holy Spirit's witness can only pertain to the gospel of Jesus Christ; 2 Thessalonians 3:13-15 There is no other calling nor any other baptism with the Holy Spirit les there be more than one calling and more than one gospel that takes away the glory of Jesus Christ at our salvation ( Ephesians 4:4-6 ).

So pray normally and ask Jesus Christ for help to open your eyes to the truth that you never did need tongues for God the Father to know everything and don't be tempted to chase after the Holy Spirit to receive after any other sensational signs in the flesh either.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

This other calling just to get tongues does not stop there... so discern that as to why the Holy Spirit is being received after that in an atmosphere where believers lose self control and fall down and do CRAZY STUFF WHEN YOU KNOW God is NOT the author of confusion as in ALL churches of the saints.

No good tree will produce an evil fruit and no evil tree will produce a good fruit; therefore any self proclaimed receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation at the calling of the gospel even if they only claim the second blessing only, it is NOT the Holy Spirit and that is why that kind of tongues is not God's gift of tongues when it was already in the world before Penetcost's God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

.
Paul spoke in the gift of "Unknown Tongues"
You look towards pentecost and known tongues of man's language?

Paul explains the actual gift as "Unknown Tongues" a "Mystery"

1 Corinthians 14:2KJV
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
 

Hidden In Him

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I believe the validity of the message can only be confirmed if it was understood in another foreign language.

Paul also spoke of praying in the tongues of angels (1 Corinthians 13:1). How was that being confirmed and understood by unbelievers, in a foreign language?
 
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Truth7t7

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Yes, I pray in tongues often ... it is not something I think about doing, but happens as I go into deep communion with God through Holy Spirit. I always feel edified, refreshed, uplifted .... heavy burdens are lighter, knowing Holy Spirit prayed through me, the will of God. When I am in prayer, and tongues come, the farthest thing from my mind is that it makes me somehow "better than" someone who isn't praying in tongues. It's more about my one-on-one relationship with Him in that moment. I'm grateful that Holy Spirit helps us when our words are lacking. Sometimes we don't know what to pray ... but the Spirit of Truth ... Holy Spirit, knows what we have need of!
Amen the gift is true, you better stay away from the Baptist quench the spirit crowd, you'll be the only one in the church accused of being devil possessed, while praising Jesus Christ :)

I have a brother that is Bapist, and he's has tried to convince me the gift of tongues died with the Apostles, I will openly speak in tongues in his presence, and ask if he believes I'm devil possessed, as I state Jesus Christ Is Lord, My Personal Savior, as I read the verses below.

The Gift is a sign to those who don't believe.

1 Corinthians 14:22KJV
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Truth7t7: "JESUS IS THE LORD"!

1 Corinthians 12:3KJV
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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It appears a lot has gone on in this thread since that last time I visited it... So let me start here:

You seem to really pound away on this argument, as if utterly convinced of it.

So let me ask you: Since I too use tongues as a prayer language, how do you know for certain that I am doing so simply to "separate myself from non-tongue speakers as if God does not love them as much as me"? What makes you certain my motivation is to "brag" and "exalt tongue talkers"?

Ask yourself what value does it have to talk about tongues for private use EVEN with other tongue speakers when you cannot prove in what mode what that tongue was doing without interpretation?

It would be akin to me talking about walking on water and how I feel so close to God doing this and I gained it by receiving the Holy Spirit apart from my salvation. Others could chime in and say that they too can walk on water and brag about how close to God they are when doing this. This is an example given in exaggeration in the hopes you will see what you guys are actually doing.

In your case; tongues without interpretation and many tongue speakers imply a second blessing by which they got that kind of tongue and so here you all are talking about praying in tongues without interpretation which cannot benefit you if you do not know what that tongue was doing, let alone praying about, and you all claim a second receiving of the Holy Spirit... thus separating yourself from the rest of the believers from that one drink of the One Spirit that we all supposed to have ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ) in speaking the same thing and having the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:9-10

The thread is basically a look at me....I pray in tongues.. whoopee. Anybody else can do that? And the other common unedifying bond you guys eventually talk about in relation to that special tongue is having received the Holy Spirit at another time apart from salvation.

Now how can that not come across as not bragging? "We have something you don't" is the only message a thread like this comes across as.

That kind of tongue is an evil fruit coming from an evil tree of wayward believers not testing the spirits, but believing the spirit to be the Holy Spirit when it falls on them apart from salvation in bringing that Satan's tongue ( Isaiah 8:19 ) that cannot be interpreted because it is not God's gift of tongues of being of other men's lips to speak unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 )

You all use tongues as a sign for that receiving of that special second blessing and yet 1 Corinthians 14:22 says tongues will not serve as a sign to believer for anything; no proof of anything.

The Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues to utter His own intercessions, because John 16:13 in all Bibles says so; the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His groanings if you stick to the KJV of Romans 8:26-27 for the correct translation in keeping the truth in His words.

You will need to pray normally in asking Jesus for help to discern that tongue by His words kept in the KJV to know that the other spirit that brought you that tongue apart from salvation was not the Holy Spirit falling over you after all, but the spirit of the antichrist.
 

Hidden In Him

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This "buzz" was identical to the super "buzz" I felt 20 years before that when, in my pagan years, I practiced Transcendental Meditation. Later on, I found out the TM mantra I was given was the name of a Hindu deity. For 20 minutes, twice a day, for about 5 years, I was summoning a demon.

My friend, I don't want to make it sound like I am making fun of you because I'm not. But these words right here explain a lot about why you seem to be espousing a mountain of strange theology. A lot of it is so out there that no one has even bothered addressing it.

My experience with believers deeply rooted in demonism is that they often have to struggle for many years to fully come out from the influence, especially when the demons they gave themselves to were of the class involved in false religion.

Have you gotten deliverance from this demon you summoned everyday? I'm asking honestly.
 
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Hidden In Him

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The thread is basically a look at me....I pray in tongues.. whoopee.

Now how can that not come across as not bragging? "We have something you don't" is the only message a thread like this comes across as.

JesusIsFaithful, you come across as having developed a bit of a complex on this or something. No one is bragging here. Has someone belittled you for not speaking in tongues? What is going on with you psychologically that you take so much offense to people simply talking about how and in what ways speaking in tongues has been a blessing to them? You are standing in the office of Accuser of the brethren, and I'm curious to know why. We are not your enemy.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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Paul also spoke of praying in the tongues of angels (1 Corinthians 13:1). How was that being confirmed and understood by unbelievers, in a foreign language?

You do know what a hyperbole is? Paul was speaking in an exaggerated sense in making a point. Read the rest of his words to see that, brother.

1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Did Paul have faith and had mountains removed? No. Did Paul give up his body to be burned? That would be a miracle since he is writing this epistle to the Corinthians, and so.. no.

Paul did not speak tongues of angels, and the point was about having love for others when doing this.

Tongues used privately is what? Am example of God's love for others in the assembly? No. Then why would God manifest that kind of tongue? He wouldn't since the manifestations of the Spirit are to profit the body withal; not individually. 1 Corinthians 12:7 It was never to be used privately as if all those self proclaimed benefits is not an act of God's love towards others when basically tongue speakers are saying that they need nobody else in the body of Christ as they can get self edification, give praise, thanks, worship and then switch mode ( now that is confusion ) for the Holy Spirit to be supposedly using tongues for praying in.

You all are assuming you have God's gift of tongues when it comes with no interpretation and assuming those benefits when there is no proof of what that tongue is doing without interpretation from someone else. You are all assuming that was the Holy Spirit that brought that tongue apart from salvation. Only the Lord can deliver you from this snare of the devil. It will not be my convincing words. No siree. May God cause the increase.

I believe God's gift of tongues is for only one thing as prophesied; it is of other men's lips to speak unto the people and it will come with interpretation ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 ) and that particular gift is not gained by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation either; 1 Corinthians 12:12-14
 

JesusIsFaithful

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JesusIsFaithful, you come across as having developed a bit of a complex on this or something. No one is bragging here. Has someone belittled you for not speaking in tongues? What is going on with you psychologically that you take so much offense to people simply talking about how and in what ways speaking in tongues has been a blessing to them? You are standing in the office of Accuser of the brethren, and I'm curious to know why. We are not your enemy.

Well... someone pretty much did by implying that tongues were gained by the baptism with the Holy Spirit and those that have it and etc. and although when I put him on the spot for it in asking him to clarify that statement as if only tongue speakers has the Holy Spirit and thus saved, he did not want to continue the discussion in this thread, because he did not meant to go in that direction, even though his words did pointed in that direction.

But pretty much, that is all what this discussion does.. make non-tongue speaker doubt that they have the actual baptism with the Holy Spirit and because they had not received said baptism by that "sign" of tongues or that "evidence" of tongues, and so I am arguing against that kind of tongue so no non-tongue speaker will think they are not saved.

You know this topic is broached in every forum but not one talk about the real God's gift of tongues in being used properly by having two or three speak in tongue one by one and one interpret it as they are to have two or three prophesy while another judge it. No one talks about tongue sbeing used right to share what was interpreted which was for the edification of the body of the believers and the forum.

Now how is that not an proof of lacking God's love thus God is not behind that tongue without interpretation because no tongue speaker is sharing to report tongues with interpretation that was supposedly done in their assembly to share for the edification of the believers in this forum; tongue and non-tongue speaker alike.

This thread about praying in tongues is vanity and lacking God's love for sure.

You really think God would not manifest interpretation for His gift of tongue so that the tongue speaker would understand it and be edified and thus fruitful to the tongue speaker? God would interpret that tongue for the tongue speaker because our God is the God of love.

So.. no.. tongues for private use is not God's gift of tongues seeing how it has been lacking the love of God and hardly keeps the foot of pride away.
 

Hidden In Him

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You do know what a hyperbole is? Paul was speaking in an exaggerated sense in making a point. Read the rest of his words to see that, brother.

1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

This is a parallelism. You are making this passage to say that giving one's goods to feed the poor was also hyperbole. It was not (Acts 2:45, Matthew 19:29).
 

Hidden In Him

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Well... someone pretty much did by implying that tongues were gained by the baptism with the Holy Spirit and those that have it and etc. and although when I put him on the spot for it in asking him to clarify that statement as if only tongue speakers has the Holy Spirit and thus saved, he did not want to continue the discussion in this thread, because he did not meant to go in that direction, even though his words did pointed in that direction.

My apologies if this is in fact a true perception of what happened. I cannot comment for someone else. All I will say is that I didn't notice it.
But pretty much, that is all what this discussion does.. make non-tongue speaker doubt that they have the actual baptism with the Holy Spirit

Ok, but now let's address this: Without trying to defend what anyone else said (I don't teach that those without the baptism should automatically be considered "unsaved"), you do believe there were instances in NT times when some had become believers yet had not yet received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, correct?
 

JesusIsFaithful

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This is a parallelism. You are making this passage to say that giving one's goods to feed the poor was also hyperbole. It was not (Acts 2:45, Matthew 19:29).

To give everything you have to the poor in making yourself poor and having nothing and yet have no love... makes him less than nothing. That is the point he was trying to make. I am sure Paul did not actually do that either.
 

Hidden In Him

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You know this topic is broached in every forum but not one talk about the real God's gift of tongues in being used properly by having two or three speak in tongue one by one and one interpret it as they are to have two or three prophesy while another judge it.

Now here you have a point, in one sense. I truly wish it were indeed again used more as a I sign gift, and such were confirmed. This is much more difficult to falsify. I in fact myself pray for and look for far greater manifestations of the genuine spiritual gifts than we are seeing yet, and am not the least bit satisfied. My only qualification here would be that I seek to encourage in this direction rather than to focus on what is not happening or is being falsified.

I have however seen some post about strictly abiding by the rules you mentioned. I believe my comment at the time was that there are not nearly as many interpreters as there should be, which again leads back into my dissatisfaction with Pentecostalism in general at the current time. But many on this thread share that same discontentment, as we were discussing on a different thread.
This thread about praying in tongues is vanity and lacking God's love for sure.

You go too far.
You really think God would not manifest interpretation for His gift of tongue so that the tongue speaker would understand it and be edified and thus fruitful to the tongue speaker? God would interpret that tongue for the tongue speaker because our God is the God of love.

It's less about God and more about His vessels, JIF. Paul urged the Corinthians to pray rather that they might prophecy, the implication being that many were not yet. Was that God's fault? No. The Corinthians needed to be seeking the higher gifts, and as I stated, if there is an abundance of those who are speaking in tongues yet few who can interpret (1 Corinthians 14:13), that imbalance needs to be corrected through prayer.
 
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Hidden In Him

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To give everything you have to the poor in making yourself poor and having nothing and yet have no love... makes him less than nothing. That is the point he was trying to make. I am sure Paul did not actually do that either.

Was Jesus serious in telling the ruler to sell all his possessions or not? (Matthew 19:21)
 
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