Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

Triumph1300 · May 30, 2018

Read Revelation 3:5 that unless you are an overcomer, Jesus will blot your name out of the book of life.

This means that a name that was in the book.... but CAN be blotted out of the book.

Anyhow...I'm finished here.
I'm looking towards a few uplifting threads.
You all have a blessed day.

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

LC627 said:
First off, I never knew Luther personally, and none of us where alive when he was so trying to make a judgment is pointless. It is not anyone's place to say who is saved or not. I am accountable for my walk of faith, not anyone else's, same goes for you. One thing I do know, he wasn't a fan of indulgences

Nice try - but indulgences have absolutely nothing to do with what we were talking about.

The point is that he have his writings - and he DID tell Melanchton that we could and SHOULD sin boldly because the forgiveness of Christ is that much greater. This completely goes against what YOU said earlier.

I wasn't asking you to tell me if Luther was saved or not. I was pointing out that this is the same person who invented the twin pillars of Protestantism which YOU adhere to - and yet you don't believe that a man like him could have been a "true" follower of Christ because of his believe that he could sin all he wanted and it didn't matter.

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

Taken said:
TRUE!!

And also TRUE, is God is ALL Knowing.
And also TRUE, is God does not SAVE and then UNSAVED a man.

WHO said that GOD unsaves people??
People unsave themselves.

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

Taken said:
Sorry you think the Lords INDWELLING Power is grossly incompetent TO KEEP a man IN FAITHFULNESS TO HIM "FOREVER".
You should have learned ONCE a man CHOOSES to become CONVERTED.....THAT man "IS" precisely giving the Lord CONTROL over THAT MANS SPIRITUAL LIFE "FOREVER", WITH HIS POWER!
You CLAIM to be BORN AGAIN, "IN CHRIST", but yet you do NOT TRUST the POWER of GODS KEEPING YOU.....FOREVER;
Even though Scriptures says FOREVER, and you deny, by simply claiming your were NOT SHOWN, WHICH IS FALSE.
BOTTOM LINE:
JEWS, WHO CONTINUE TO REMAIN SUBJECT TO THEIR LAWS, ARE THEY, WHO must endure to the END.....THEY have to ............
BY THEIR OWN POWER, KEEP THE LAW.
THEY DO NOT HAVE "CHRIST IN THEM".
UNLIKE YOU, I have the Power of Christ IN ME, and it is HIS POWER thet KEEPS ME "FOREVER".
Once again, YOU DO NOT DIVIDE the Word of Truth, thus you think EVERY Scripture APPLIES to you.
You preach you have RECEIVED an UNCORRUPTABLE GIFT....yet you can CORRUPT IT WITH YOUR POWER....
Hogwash

No - what's "hogwash" is that YOU seem to think that the rules of faith are somehow different for Jews than for everybody else.
Sounds pretty anti-Semitic to me . . .

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
It's not what you know BOL, it's about your heart and what you believe.

Ezek 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

This is almost like talking to a wall because you are purposely ignoring the meaning of Epignosis.
For the hundredth time - Epignosis is NOT simply "knowledge".

Gen. 4:1 tells us that Adam "Knew" Eve and she conceived and bore a son. In this sense, his "knowledge" of Eve was the most intimate knowledge a man and wife could have.

It is the same with Epignosis. It is NOT simply knowledge. "Oida" and "gnosis" are the usual Greek words used for simple knowledge. EPIGNOSIS, however, is an FULL, INTIMATE and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of Christ.

Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 both tell us that a person can have an EPIGNOSIS of Christ - and then fall back into darkness.

Now - HOW do you explain that??

LC627 · May 30, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Nice try - but indulgences have absolutely nothing to do with what we were talking about.

The point is that he have his writings - and he DID tell Melanchton that we could and SHOULD sin boldly because the forgiveness of Christ is that much greater. This completely goes against what YOU said earlier.

I wasn't asking you to tell me if Luther was saved or not. I was pointing out that this is the same person who invented the twin pillars of Protestantism which YOU adhere to - and yet you don't believe that a man like him could have been a "true" follower of Christ because of his believe that he could sin all he wanted and it didn't matter.

Good thing I don’t follow Luther but the Bible. A Christian should not desire to sin nor encourage others to do so, regardless of the person. I’m accountable for my own faith walk. Just like you are. Sucks we are not perfect like you guys.

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

LC627 said:
Good thing I don’t follow Luther but the Bible. A Christian should not desire to sin nor encourage others to do so, regardless of the person. I’m accountable for my own faith walk. Just like you are. Sucks we are not perfect like you guys.

Not sure why you made that last comment - but nobody ever said Catholics were "perfect".
As a matter of fact - the Church is not a museum of perfect people - but a hospital for sinners.

My point here is that you indeed follow Luther if you adhere to the twin principles of Protestantism:
Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide - because these are HIS inventions. Why would you follow these principles of his and NOT his other ones about sin?

Heb 13:8 · May 30, 2018

LC627 said:
No one here is against remaining faithful unto death. As Christians, we should guard our life and walk of faith from the world/sin and its influences. At the same time God watches us over all well. Where I stand personally, is that God already "predestined us for adoption" Eph. 1:3. God brought us into His family through Christ. God already knew the choices of man and everything is already settled, those who are saved and those who are sadly lost.

John 8:35 - Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.

Sin should be difficult and uncomfortable for the Christian. It is my belief that through our new image and having God's seed in us, no real believer would desire that old life of sin just as much as any unsaved person desires to follow God. We have been given a whole new nature and we are a new creation that goes against everything we were before we came to Christ.

Spiritual blindness is who they are, it's not something learned. The religious are no different than unbelieving Israel, Rom 11:25, and I'm afraid that rapture is the only event that will wake them up. Forums are not doing it. - Heb.

LC627 · May 30, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Not sure why you made that last comment - but nobody ever said Catholics were "perfect".
As a matter of fact - the Church is not a museum of perfect people - but a hospital for sinners.

My point here is that you indeed follow Luther if you adhere to the twin principles of Protestantism:
Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide - because these are HIS inventions. Why would you follow these principles of his and NOT his other ones about sin?

The Bible is inspired by God, it is His Word, and The Word is the only source that I follow and as believers we have the Holy Spirit to guide us in all truth. I agree with you that the church is not a museum of perfect people. The church is the Bride of Christ and the Body of Believers. All of which are great need of God's grace and forgiveness.

LC627 · May 30, 2018

Triumph1300 said:
Read Revelation 3:5 that unless you are an overcomer, Jesus will blot your name out of the book of life.

This means that a name that was in the book.... but CAN be blotted out of the book.

Anyhow...I'm finished here.
I'm looking towards a few uplifting threads.
You all have a blessed day.

Rev. 22:19, "book of life" is not always translated as book but as "tree of life".

As with Rev. 3:5, as Christians we are already "more than conquerors" and greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world

LC627 · May 30, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
This is almost like talking to a wall because you are purposely ignoring the meaning of Epignosis.
For the hundredth time - Epignosis is NOT simply "knowledge".

Gen. 4:1 tells us that Adam "Knew" Eve and she conceived and bore a son. In this sense, his "knowledge" of Eve was the most intimate knowledge a man and wife could have.

It is the same with Epignosis. It is NOT simply knowledge. "Oida" and "gnosis" are the usual Greek words used for simple knowledge. EPIGNOSIS, however, is an FULL, INTIMATE and EXPERIENTIAL knowledge of Christ.

Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 both tell us that a person can have an EPIGNOSIS of Christ - and then fall back into darkness.

Now - HOW do you explain that??

Romans 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge (epignosis) God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

People don't have to be saved to have a knowledge of God. Mankind is without excuse, they see His creation.

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

LC627 said:
The Bible is inspired by God, it is His Word, and The Word is the only source that I follow and as believers we have the Holy Spirit to guide us in all truth. I agree with you that the church is not a museum of perfect people. The church is the Bride of Christ and the Body of Believers. All of which are great need of God's grace and forgiveness.

I find the statement in RED interesting because, logically, it doesn't make any sense.

Jesus promised the the Holy Spirit would guide His CHURCH to all truth and He promised it to the leaders of His Church - NOT to the masses. He said this at the Last Supper (John 16:12-15).

Protestantism is comprised of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering factions who ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been led by the Holy Spirit to "All truth". If this is the case - wouldn't ALL Protestants believe in the same things?

In the very next chapter - Jesus prayed fervently for the unity of His Church - that it remain ONE as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
How can you make this claim about Protestantism - when everybody claims to be "led" by the Holy Spirit to different conclusions??

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

LC627 said:
Romans 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge (epignosis) God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

People don't have to be saved to have a knowledge of God. Mankind is without excuse, they see His creation.

You have a BIG problem here:
These are people who never had an Epignosis of God. It says plainly that they did not see fit to have an Epignosis of Him - so they didn't. The Greek doesn't say "any longer" - it simply says they didn't see fit to acknowledge Him

They were never born again.
Those who have an Epignosis of God are born again.

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

LC627 said:
Rev. 22:19, "book of life" is not always translated as book but as "tree of life".

As with Rev. 3:5, as Christians we are already "more than conquerors" and greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world

Sorry - but you're out of luck here, too.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

How can God "take away" somebody’s share of in the Tree of Life and of Heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who might LOSE it all.

LC627 · May 30, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
You have a BIG problem here:
These are people who never had an Epignosis of God. It says plainly that they did not see fit to have an Epignosis of Him - so they didn't. The Greek doesn't say "any longer" - it simply says they didn't see fit to acknowledge Him

They were never born again.
Those who have an Epignosis of God are born again.

Where did I say they were saved? I said people do not have to be saved in order to have knowledge of God. Epignosis is used in that verse (Strong's number 1922, New Testament Greek Lexicon)

LC627 · May 30, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Sorry - but you're out of luck here, too.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

How can God "take away" somebody’s share of in the Tree of Life and of Heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who might LOSE it all.

It does not say "Salvation"

LC627 · May 30, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
I find the statement in RED interesting because, logically, it doesn't make any sense.

Jesus promised the the Holy Spirit would guide His CHURCH to all truth and He promised it to the leaders of His Church - NOT to the masses. He said this at the Last Supper (John 16:12-15).

Protestantism is comprised of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering factions who ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been led by the Holy Spirit to "All truth". If this is the case - wouldn't ALL Protestants believe in the same things?

In the very next chapter - Jesus prayed fervently for the unity of His Church - that it remain ONE as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
How can you make this claim about Protestantism - when everybody claims to be "led" by the Holy Spirit to different conclusions??

So the Holy Spirit is not active in you at all? You just rely on your church leaders?

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

LC627 said:
It does not say "Salvation"

Salvation is eternal life.
The Tree of Life is where we have our share in that.

LC627 · May 30, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Salvation is eternal life.
The Tree of Life is where we have our share in that.

Those who were PREDESTINED are already KNOWN to God. The names were recorded before time even began. If they were going to be "lost" then why did God have their recorded in the first place?

BreadOfLife · May 30, 2018

LC627 said:
So the Holy Spirit is not active in you at all? You just rely on your church leaders?

That's not what I said at all.
I said that the Holy Spirit guides the CHURCH tpo all truth - NOT the individual.

If that were the case - why are there tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering factions who ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been led by the Holy Spirit to "All truth"??

Is God the God of confusion?
Does He lead different Protestant men to different - and sometimes opposing doctrines?

As a Protestant - you have to ask yourself why there are so many different and opposing teachings if they are ALL being "led" by the Holy Spirit.

Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

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