Evidence of the Trinity

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Wakka

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Trinity Bible StudyDisclaimer: As ginger might think, I am not a non-trinitarian basher. I'm nondenominational who is against the teachings of the RCC. I believe that the trinity does exist, as I find it written in Scripture.Let's start with Genesis. I'll be using KJV because it's the purest version of all of the English texts.Genesis 1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.Who is this us mentioned in the Bible. Well, because no angel can create anything, it must be God. But that is clearly plural. So, let's explore further into Scripture.Psalm 33:6By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.At first glance, this might seem a simple verse. It's very easily skipped, but there is a lot of hidden meaning in it. Let's start with the word of the LORD. John 1:1-3 clearly states what the word is. But we will get to that later.Now, the breath of his mouth. In Hebrew, breath translates to ruwach (רוח).The definition of that word is breath or spirit. And later down in the definition, the Holy Spirit is listed. Now this makes much more sense. "Let us make man in our image," includes the Holy Spirit. What about the word?John 1:1-3In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.So the Word must be Jesus. It's clearly talking about Him.How do we know that?Let's read on.John 1:4-14In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.This is clearly Jesus Christ. He was there with the Father and the Holy Spirit at the time of the creation. Even before the universe.Now the problem with the Trinity is that it's hard to believe. The reason being is that it's a paradox. And such paradoxes are very, very, very difficult for one to conceive, especially in a finite mind (we are all finite, only God is infinite). Christ calls us to believe in faith, and that's what we are to do. The secrets of the universe will soon be revealed to us in the time of the Millennial reign of Christ on this earth after the tribulation.Now, just for fun, let's recap back to Psalm 33:6By the word[Jesus] of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath[Holy Spirit] of his mouth.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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I used to be a Trinitarian, then I read the Bible, dropped all my Denominational Thinking and saw that God is One. I used the Same Scriptures that the typical trinitarian used. Genesis, John 1:1, 1st John 5:7, then I realized they're all the same.
 

Peacebewithyou

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(Wakka;40230)
Trinity Bible StudyI'm nondenominational who is against the teachings of the RCC.
Weren't we told that posting denominations was :naughty:?? Especially when it's beyond the context of the thread? What does your opinion about the RCC have to do with the Trinity, which you agree is Biblical. Nothing. But that's for sharing that bit of trivia about yourself Wakka.Maybe it should be added that posting about denominations will not be tolerated unless one is posting that he is "against the techings of the RCC?" Lol.
 

Peacebewithyou

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When you think about it Wakka, the RCC came up with the Trinity.
You are right. They got it from the Bible which they also came up with.
smile.gif
 

Christina

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I used to be a Trinitarian, then I read the Bible, dropped all my Denominational Thinking and saw that God is One. I used the Same Scriptures that the typical trinitarian used. Genesis, John 1:1, 1st John 5:7, then I realized they're all the same.
Amen to you unorthodox
 

Wayne Murray

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For your consideration, go back farther in eternity past before anything was created.God is eternal having neither beginning of days or end of life, a Spirit fire or light we call life. The Word begins with thought from conscious awareness I am, acquiring wisdom to reason thought to self with the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. This wisdom of thought with words is not any substance or matter but Spirit, the Holy Spirit. God is One, by Himself or alone with His Word the Holy Spirit. The Word was God's only begotten in eternity past. Wisdom speaking,Pro.8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. Pro.8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. possessed = acquired, implying a definite act.
 

DrBubbaLove

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Wayne,Like the idea but think it should be taken much further than you do.Imagine God the Father, Creator of ALL things before He made anything. He is Perfect in every aspect, every attribute, including Knowledge. When we speak of a reflection of ourselves or our knowledge of our self, there is no way that vision in our mind approaches Perfection. We can imagine ourselves, and look in the mirror, but that picture in our minds in no way resembles what is really real. It is not really us, just our image of our self (and normally a poor one at that).Yet here we speak of God the Father. He is God. The Father who has Absolute Perfect Knowledge. That would have to include a Perfect Knowledge of Himself. But what would a Perfect Knowledge of Himself mean? Would it not be an absolutely Perfect Reflection of Himself in His Mind? And if God the Father exists and is Perfect, than how less Perfect or less existent would His own Thought (His WORDs) of Himself be? That Reflection of Himself in His Mind, in that His Reflection of Himself is Perfect, it is then also Real as in it really exists. Unlike my imperfect reflection in my mind or in the mirror, the Father sees Himself as He is, Fully God. And that reflection is real, also Fully God. So if that Reflection is Perfect, then that Reflection also must be God. So in that way the Son is begotten of the Father, from His Mind. The Son exists as a distinct Person from the Father, is Perfect and is God, Fully God. And given one cannot conceive of the Father not having His “Mind”, then it is inconceivable that He is ever alone. The Son is always with Him. The same can then be said of the relationship between the two, a Love between the Father and Son that is absolutely Perfect, it exists as a Spirit flowing from the Father AND the Son (at least in the West). So we have a Trinity, three Persons existing, One God.
 

Wayne Murray

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Wayne,Like the idea but think it should be taken much further than you do.Imagine God the Father, Creator of ALL things before He made anything. He is Perfect in every aspect, every attribute, including Knowledge. When we speak of a reflection of ourselves or our knowledge of our self, there is no way that vision in our mind approaches Perfection. We can imagine ourselves, and look in the mirror, but that picture in our minds in no way resembles what is really real. It is not really us, just our image of our self (and normally a poor one at that).Yet here we speak of God the Father. He is God. The Father who has Absolute Perfect Knowledge. That would have to include a Perfect Knowledge of Himself. But what would a Perfect Knowledge of Himself mean? Would it not be an absolutely Perfect Reflection of Himself in His Mind? And if God the Father exists and is Perfect, than how less Perfect or less existent would His own Thought (His WORDs) of Himself be? That Reflection of Himself in His Mind, in that His Reflection of Himself is Perfect, it is then also Real as in it really exists. Unlike my imperfect reflection in my mind or in the mirror, the Father sees Himself as He is, Fully God. And that reflection is real, also Fully God. So if that Reflection is Perfect, then that Reflection also must be God. So in that way the Son is begotten of the Father, from His Mind. The Son exists as a distinct Person from the Father, is Perfect and is God, Fully God. And given one cannot conceive of the Father not having His “Mind”, then it is inconceivable that He is ever alone. The Son is always with Him. The same can then be said of the relationship between the two, a Love between the Father and Son that is absolutely Perfect, it exists as a Spirit flowing from the Father AND the Son (at least in the West). So we have a Trinity, three Persons existing, One God.
Sorry Dr Babble, are you practicing creative writing again. There are many Scriptures proving God is ONE. I AM THAT I AM in the Hebrew (ehyeh asher ehyeh) also means "I will be what I will be". People try to put limitations on God. He can operate in 12 dimensions, if there are that many. He will be a burning bush, Melchizedek, wrestle with Jacob, the word made flesh Christ, and Yehovah but yet ONE entity.
 

DrBubbaLove

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Wayne,Thanks for the opinion, we all have them. However your's begs a question.Please enlighten us on how you see God the Father having an imperfect Image of Himself, that His Knowledge of Himself is not Perfect (which I guess means you do not see God has having Perfect Knowledge).
 

Christina

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Amen to that Wayne just said a simular thing in the other trinity postWe will never fully understand this in our flesh period. All We can do is have faith in God and his Words. ONE GOD.......... I AM THAT I AM. Thats all we need to understand how he became flesh and remained God the father doesnt even matter it is a mute point the fact is he did, for us.
 

Wayne Murray

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Wayne,Thanks for the opinion, we all have them. However your's begs a question.Please enlighten us on how you see God the Father having an imperfect Image of Himself, that His Knowledge of Himself is not Perfect (which I guess means you do not see God has having Perfect Knowledge).
Well, maybe one day we will ask God, it will probably crack Him up, lol.By the way, I said for your consideration.
 

DrBubbaLove

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Yeah I agree, think it would crack Him up to think any believer would see Him as having imperfect knowledge.
 

Catholic Crusader

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God is ONE: One being, three persons. A human is one being and one person: A cat or dog is one being and NO persons: God is one being and THREE persons. We can not FULLY understand the Trinity, but the scripures are pretty plain that God IS Trinity:Jesus tells his apostles to baptize "in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). This is a proof-text: three distinct Persons united in the one divine name. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." We see this same unity of divine Persons in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11, Ephesians 4:4–6, and 1 Peter 1:2–3.The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God (cf. John 8:58, 10:38, 14:10; Col. 2:9). It also clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is God (cf. Acts 5:3–4, 28:25–28; 1 Cor. 2:10–13). Everyone agrees the Father is God. Yet there is only one God (Mark 12:29, 1 Cor. 8:4–6, Jas. 2:19). How can we hold all four truths except to say all three are One God? And yes, Jesus DID say he was God. In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).
 

Wayne Murray

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A human is one being and one person:
My sister Lavonne is a daughter, a sister, a wife, a mother, and a grand mother, yet one person one entity. To me she is my sister yet has other offices of her being. People try and put limitations on God by saying 3 persons ONE God when they are simply offices of the Godhead.The Father, His Kingdom His dominion was when all were angelic beings and Satan rebelled.The Son or heir of the kingdom is born in a sac of water and born from above to defeat Satan that is death. Christ is heir of the new will and testament of the kingdom.The Holy Spirit is the truth of His Word or simply Truth in all its forms, The Spirit of Truth, The Comforter. This includes council, wisdom, knowledge, and understanding. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and yes this we cannot fully understand, His Spirit. But the Holy Spirit is not a person but is of HIM, of His being.1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Not three persons.Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
 

DrBubbaLove

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Thank's Wayne,The modern Oneness verison of modalism has the same problems it did 1800 years ago. Still waiting to hear how you see it possible for God to have impefect knowledge of Himself. If you do not want to tackle that one then at least explain to us who dies on the Cross in this version of modalism.
 

Wayne Murray

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Thank's Wayne,The modern Oneness verison of modalism has the same problems it did 1800 years ago. Still waiting to hear how you see it possible for God to have impefect knowledge of Himself. If you do not want to tackle that one then at least explain to us who dies on the Cross in this version of modalism.
Easy, the flesh died.1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Not one soul has died yet, not even Satan. Do you not understand what the second death is?Do you not understand the second death is the one defeated?As to your babble, I document all things in God's Word.Your terminology and question are a man made theory by the Biblical illiterate. Doctrines, precepts of men are worthless unless documented in God's Word.If you want to understand God, study His Word.If you want to know God, study His Word.If you want to see or hear God, study His Word.That is how God is manifested, through His Word.Trying to teach spiritual truths becomes very frustrating when the students can only think carnally.
 

Christina

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I am growing so tired of this The catholic view of One God three persons is not what protestants believe arguing about it is getting ridiculous God would not want anyone spending time on this mystery I'm closing this thread God is what he is One God I am that I amif you spend time arguing about something our tiny human minds can not even begin to comphrend and then swear you know the mystery of it because your church of men taught it You are mistaken If we cant learn from a discussion and just argue whos right there is never any ending There is only one answer to this debateONE GOD THE HUMAN MIND CAN NOT COMPREHEND
 
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