defining religion

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Peacebewithyou

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We never asked you believe us we ask you belief God before your church.
Because I trust God, I trust His Chruch.
 

Peacebewithyou

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And I would agree except for the togues part there is no scripture that describe and unknown language only Languages(understood) its like Pre trib rapture theroy to me it was never taught until 1800 by men only languages understood to preach the gospel to the world are spoken of but I digress this isnt the thread to debate a this.
If history is your criteria, Communion being "symbolic" was not taught until the 1700's by men - prior to that, all Christians understood that Jesus' words in John Chapter 6 were literal. But I digress...
rolleyes.gif
 

Christina

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see you prove my point men are the problem Not Gods Word:)actullay I have no problem when a church changes a doctrine if its biblical knowledge has increased and we should be willing to change our out of date beliefs and ideas but when you come up with a complete new doctrine that isnt in scripture and never wasand base it on mens words like and you have no support what so ever I have a problem this is exactly same thing the Mormons do a new doctrine based on men
 

Peacebewithyou

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see you prove my point men are the problem Not Gods Word:)
Yep, I agree with that 100%. God's word is soooo not the problem. :naughty:
 

HammerStone

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My studies lead me into Ezekiel 18 last night, and now I see why.Ezekiel 18:4-9
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
What's notably missing from this? Church. What's the clear, concise, and overarching theme of this passage (or the whole chapter for that matter)? If you follow what God has laid out for you, clearly in the form of his WORD, as you WORSHIP the WORD MADE FLESH (John 1:14).As Father himself said:Ezekiel 18:25
Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
When any man, church, group of friends, or whatever tells you something that supersedes the Almighty there is a problem, and a very big problem at that. If this is not a problem at your church, and for many of us it is not, then it's a nonissue and it's a wonderful thing to have someone to help you. However, if one spends their days hypocritically playing the game of my denomination is better than you denomination, I've got to ask how much in line with Christ is that? The only ones that had that kind of talk were the scribes and the Pharisees, and my friends that is not the shoes you want to be in.Rest assured that the church of __________ or any "holy figure, preacher, priest, pastor, teacher, or anything" is going to stand between you and judgment. When they start saying "Lord, Lord" he has already told us he won't listen? Why? Because what he told each and every one of us is right there in the Word. He even made it become flesh and made it easy if only you keep that relationship with him of which earthly denominational church is only a part.
 

followerofchrist

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Teaching the "right things?" I assume you mean does my Church teach me to love Jesus, my Savior, more than anything and my neighbor as myself? That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I don't think there will be a Bible quiz to get into heaven. I think that God will search our heart to see if we loved Jesus? And did we show our love by being obedient to Him? Did we do His will? Did we love our neighbors as ourselves? Did we care for the poor? Feed the hungry? I think Jesus is much more concerned with those things than how many bible verses we can quote. I'm not saying that's what you meant, but sadly I believe many think that way.
By the right things i mean the teachings of the bible, the word of God. Their is no greater truth! The teaching of the bible is the right thing, I would expect any Christian despite personal denomination to tell you the same!
 

goldy

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Goldy you have asked this question over and over fact is if you do get Gods Word trumps any mans or any organization you goit a serious problem Im not trying to be rude its just the facts have you ever read of Christ ? What did he do go to the synogogs and say you men are right in fact he went and tipped over the money tables told the aspostels to stay away from them this was the same group that brought us Abraham and Moses the fact is the Entire Bible is against Mens words and teachings over Gods
Kriss, you still haven't answered my question.:naughty:Now, let's not complicate this: Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible ALONE is the sole rule of faith for Christians? After all, shouldn't there be verses all over the Bible that says this? I believe that the Bible itself is the inspired Word of God. After all, even the Catholic Church says that "ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of God". Sorry Kriss, but it's soooooo much about interpretation. I love the Bible.....read it everyday. Please remember that.
 

goldy

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Again you are wrong its Men of denominations that are the problemyou keep saying there are so many interpretations of the bible No there's not there is one the problem is men in big denominations saying their right and Gods word is wrong yet they don't even know what it really says cause they never studied it they all learn it in their denominational seminaries they were all taught the same right or wrong my denomination says so. Thats like saying because we have a problem with mormons its because the bible is interpted so many ways .No its not its because they went outside the bible and men made a religion out of NON Biblical beliefsYou catholics keep claiming you were first So what all that means is you have had longer to let in misinterptations and wrong things Doesnt mean you have to throw out the denomiation. But you got stop defending its wrong things. Same goes for prodestants 90% teach Pre-trib rapture its not in scripture but they would rather deny Gods word then accept it. Doesnt mean the entire denomination is wrong but if we all as Bible readers dont stop making excuses for men and follow God above the men in our denominations instead of swearing our denomination is the right answer over God it falls squarley on your head God vwill say get away from me I never knew you.He has told you ONE GOD, ONE RELIGION ONE BAPTISIM WHERE DO WE FIND THAT ONE FAITH IN GODS WORD PERIOD God is concerned with the state of your soul not the name of your church No church will save you only a belief in Jesus Christ will save youhave you ever read God what God says about itJam 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion [is] vain. Jam 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Kriss, my Church has brought me closer to Christ. My Church has inspired me to read the Bible more. My Church has caused good works to flourish in my life. My Church has inspired me to care for my fellow man and love my enemies. Do you have a problem with that? If you think my Church has teachings contrary to scripture, that's your OPINION (INTERPRETATION). I have yet to find anything in my Church that is contrary to scripture. You should applaud that.......
 

waynemlj

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In viewing the various Posts about church and denominationalism in this topic, I notice that there is a back and for debate about church and following the Bible, really.I have experienced 4 or 5 different denominations and can tell you that I came out of them all because the only Truth we have as Christians is the Word of God. If we all are faithful to daily study and application of the Bible, we'll grow "from faith to faith." If we sit under false doctrine -- even when it is woven into much Bible truth -- we will stagnate, at least, and be weak in our faith, at the worst.Jesus said in Matthew 16:18, in replying to Peter's confession, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," 'And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." 1) Jesus was certainly not referring to Peter as the rock (he was anything but a rock). Jesus was referring to the statement Peter had just made which Jesus told him came from the Father, not from Peter, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." The Church is Jesus' Church, and He will build it exactly as He said He would!2) Jesus was not referring to a particular denomination at all -- He couldn't care less about denominations! Jesus has a following of believers (sheep) whom He knows personally and who know Him personally, and they follow Him.3) This Christianity Board is a church from my perspective where I can see people expressing their beliefs and their love for Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.That will always involve different viewpoints and opinions. As long as we converse in loving and understanding ways, it works well for me.What makes me sad is to see brothers and sisters of the same Lord being unkind sometimes in their words order to get a point of view across. We are to do as God's Word says in 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18, "Then we who are alive ... Therefore, encourage one another with these words."And, again, in 1 Thessalonians 5:11, "Therefore, encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing."We need to focus on these admonitions from Scripture as we present our different undestandings of God's Word. We are all in a different point along the road, but, thanks be to God, we are all on the right road!waynemlj
 

goldy

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In viewing the various Posts about church and denominationalism in this topic, I notice that there is a back and for debate about church and following the Bible, really.I have experienced 4 or 5 different denominations and can tell you that I came out of them all because the only Truth we have as Christians is the Word of God. If we all are faithful to daily study and application of the Bible, we'll grow "from faith to faith." If we sit under false doctrine -- even when it is woven into much Bible truth -- we will stagnate, at least, and be weak in our faith, at the worst.Jesus said in Matthew 16:18, in replying to Peter's confession, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," 'And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." 1) Jesus was certainly not referring to Peter as the rock (he was anything but a rock). Jesus was referring to the statement Peter had just made which Jesus told him came from the Father, not from Peter, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." The Church is Jesus' Church, and He will build it exactly as He said He would!2) Jesus was not referring to a particular denomination at all -- He couldn't care less about denominations! Jesus has a following of believers (sheep) whom He knows personally and who know Him personally, and they follow Him.3) This Christianity Board is a church from my perspective where I can see people expressing their beliefs and their love for Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.That will always involve different viewpoints and opinions. As long as we converse in loving and understanding ways, it works well for me.What makes me sad is to see brothers and sisters of the same Lord being unkind sometimes in their words order to get a point of view across. We are to do as God's Word says in 1 Thessalonians 4:17-18, "Then we who are alive ... Therefore, encourage one another with these words."And, again, in 1 Thessalonians 5:11, "Therefore, encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing."We need to focus on these admonitions from Scripture as we present our different undestandings of God's Word. We are all in a different point along the road, but, thanks be to God, we are all on the right road!waynemlj
Hi, please read my post in "The problem with Christianity today" thread. I think that will help you to see where I'm coming from on this. I agree.....we should be charitable when our opinions differ. And we also shouldn't be out looking for fights.
 

Jackie D

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goldy said:
my Church has brought me closer to Christ. My Church has inspired me to read the Bible more. My Church has caused good works to flourish in my life. My Church has inspired me to care for my fellow man and love my enemies. Do you have a problem with that? If you think my Church has teachings contrary to scripture, that's your OPINION (INTERPRETATION). I have yet to find anything in my Church that is contrary to scripture. You should applaud that.......
I've noticed that you put much emphasis on what YOUR Church has done to cause good works to flourish in your life, inspired you to care for your fellow man, love your enemies, read your bible more....I'm wondering, where is God in all of what your church has CREATED in you??I'm not a member of a church, never have been. Now if someone is a member of a church and that suits them fine, just not my cup of tea...but I have to say that I, never having been a member of a church, have found the same inspirations outside of the church as you found in one...so who does the glory belong to? Certainly not a church...the glory belongs to God that He has born in you the desire to serve Him and glorify Him through having good fruits of the Spirit. And this makes me wonder, these things that supposedly define a "church" but can be found outside of the "church" are they really religion or result of following God? And since we already know the answer to this question, why the hype on religion? Why not just have relationship, it is the relationship with the Lord that builds these things, not religion...IMO
 

Christina

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Kriss, you still haven't answered my question.:naughty:Now, let's not complicate this: Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible ALONE is the sole rule of faith for Christians? After all, shouldn't there be verses all over the Bible that says this? I believe that the Bible itself is the inspired Word of God. After all, even the Catholic Church says that "ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of God". Sorry Kriss, but it's soooooo much about interpretation. I love the Bible.....read it everyday. Please remember that.
But I have Goldy if you do not understand that the Word of God ,the God of allthat created all things, that brought us our lord and savior, that tells first was the Word ,...trumps any man any religion... you are a lost soul You can hear of him in church but you must check it out yourself men can not stand between you and God You are responsable for getting the truth through his word if you blindly accept anothers word, its no excuse he tells us he is our light in the dark, his son tells us the only way to the Father (God) is through me how do we go through him ? We read/study his Words the Bible, We are not to let any man decieve us even if unintensional the holy Word of God, through it we hear and find his only begotten Son Jesus Christ if you dont understand that I have nothing to offer you. If you think you find Jesus through men and denominations traditions, holidays,words of menrather his words theres nothing else to say. For only the truth can be known spoken from his own mouth that is his Word.the Holy BibleThe Word bears wittness not church not men the son is the Word1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
 

ForYou

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We need not to worry about what religion or church we go to,but worry about if you are pleasing God,and if you have accepted him into your life,that you are praying and just showing your love to God.Thats my two cents!
 

Jackie D

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We need not to worry about what religion or church we go to,but worry about if you are pleasing God,and if you have accepted him into your life,that you are praying and just showing your love to God.Thats my two cents!
"we need not worry about what religion", really? I don't agree with that at all. Christ was clearly displeased with how the Law was turned into wrong religion. Religion that overburdened and created stumbling blocks. And so you are saying that it doesn't matter the religion as long as we believe in God. So are you accepting of the religion of Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Muslem etc...they are religions, they all say that they know and love the one true god/God. "or church we go to"...so then you are in agreement with attending any church? Even if that church teaches a gospel contrary to Christ? Or a church that is tolerant of abhorant behaviors such as homosexuality or perhaps abortions. Are you saying we needn't worry about these things as long as we show God that we love Him.Isn't part of showing God our love, being williing to leave behind false teachings, false brotherhood, tolerance of abominations? Or is that my imagination? Isn't our love for Him standing up for the truth, even in the face of being turned out of the synagogue? Please if I am wrong in what I just read in your statement clarify for me, for I believe that you have just spoke that tolerance is an acceptable thing these days. And all is good as long as we show God that we love Him...well if we don't stand for the truth, how is it that we will be showing our love for Him?I've seen enough of religion to know that I want nothing of it. I have watched threads go 52 pages to argue if a woman should be allowed to wear pants to church, yet those same people who say they should not, support lotteries and gambling halls??? That is so contradictory and insane it makes me sick to my stomach. Or let's go a step further, let's talk about the religion that refuses to acknowledge that all through the bible women were put into leadership type roles yet much of today's church will throw those very verses and examples out of the bible in order to support a doctrine that says women should only teach the children and younger women, never preach because they would be usurping men! 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. So please, please tell me that religion doesn't cause harm and I will give you multiple examples of how it does. And that it does indeed matter our religion and it does indeed matter the church we attend.
 

goldy

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goldy said:I've noticed that you put much emphasis on what YOUR Church has done to cause good works to flourish in your life, inspired you to care for your fellow man, love your enemies, read your bible more....I'm wondering, where is God in all of what your church has CREATED in you??I'm not a member of a church, never have been. Now if someone is a member of a church and that suits them fine, just not my cup of tea...but I have to say that I, never having been a member of a church, have found the same inspirations outside of the church as you found in one...so who does the glory belong to? Certainly not a church...the glory belongs to God that He has born in you the desire to serve Him and glorify Him through having good fruits of the Spirit. And this makes me wonder, these things that supposedly define a "church" but can be found outside of the "church" are they really religion or result of following God? And since we already know the answer to this question, why the hype on religion? Why not just have relationship, it is the relationship with the Lord that builds these things, not religion...IMO
You must have missed the very first thing I said in my post: My Church has brought me closer to Jesus Christ.Of course the glory belongs all to God. To use an analogy: If God is a city, then my Church is the main highway leading me to that city. I'm able to stay on that highway through the sacraments, scripture reading, the rosary, etc.
 

goldy

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But I have Goldy if you do not understand that the Word of God ,the God of allthat created all things, that brought us our lord and savior, that tells first was the Word ,...trumps any man any religion... you are a lost soul You can hear of him in church but you must check it out yourself men can not stand between you and God You are responsable for getting the truth through his word if you blindly accept anothers word, its no excuse he tells us he is our light in the dark, his son tells us the only way to the Father (God) is through me how do we go through him ? We read/study his Words the Bible, We are not to let any man decieve us even if unintensional the holy Word of God, through it we hear and find his only begotten Son Jesus Christ if you dont understand that I have nothing to offer you. If you think you find Jesus through men and denominations traditions, holidays,words of menrather his words theres nothing else to say. For only the truth can be known spoken from his own mouth that is his Word.the Holy BibleThe Word bears wittness not church not men the son is the Word1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
No, you still haven't. Let me simplify this even more for you: For Christians, what is the pillar and bulwork of the truth? If it's the Bible, please point me to the verses that say this. Surely it's all over the Bible, right? I keep asking this over and over again because I've yet to get a straight answer.
 

Jackie D

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You must have missed the very first thing I said in my post: My Church has brought me closer to Jesus Christ.Of course the glory belongs all to God. To use an analogy: If God is a city, then my Church is the main highway leading me to that city. I'm able to stay on that highway through the sacraments, scripture reading, the rosary, etc.
no I hadn't missed it. personally I don't see how any church can bring us closer to God. But that is my opinion and you know opinions they are like belly buttons, every body has one. I noticed that you use the sacraments and the rosary as tools to help you stay on the highway...so does that give you a relationship with God or does it give you ritual and religion? Now I'm just asking because I am trying to see how these things keep us in grace and faith...you see I don't understand religion, what I do understand is that Christ died, for a multitude of reasons, one being for us to have freedom from those things. Come to me all ye who are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and my burden is light. Are the sacraments and rosary part of Christ's easy yoke and light burden? Or are these acts just another heavy weight that some form of religion has laid upon the people?
 

goldy

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no I hadn't missed it. personally I don't see how any church can bring us closer to God. But that is my opinion and you know opinions they are like belly buttons, every body has one. I noticed that you use the sacraments and the rosary as tools to help you stay on the highway...so does that give you a relationship with God or does it give you ritual and religion? Now I'm just asking because I am trying to see how these things keep us in grace and faith...you see I don't understand religion, what I do understand is that Christ died, for a multitude of reasons, on being for us to have freedom from those things. Come to me all ye who are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. From My yoke is easy and my burden is light. Are the sacraments and rosary part of Christ's easy yoke and light burden? Or are these acts just another heavy weight that some form of religion has laid upon the people?
I respect your opinions, and I thank you for being charitable with them. As for the rosary and sacraments, they draw me into a fuller union with Christ. I pray the rosary often, and every time I pray it and reflect on the events in Christs life, I find peace. There's no law about having to pray the rosary. But I know that anything that helps me to reflect on the life of my Lord and Savior is a good thing, right? The sacraments? Same thing. Whenever I receive Jesus in the Eucharist at Mass, I feel peace. I feel in complete union with the One who died for my sins. Is it ritualistic? Yes, but it's also very liberating. And that was Christ's message to the world. He came to set the captives free. The more in line I am with my Church, the more freedom I have. I'm a slave of nothing to this world. Therefore, I want to shout this from the rooftops.......or on this forum:)
 

Jackie D

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I respect your opinions, and I thank you for being charitable with them. As for the rosary and sacraments, they draw me into a fuller union with Christ. I pray the rosary often, and every time I pray it and reflect on the events in Christs life, I find peace. There's no law about having to pray the rosary. But I know that anything that helps me to reflect on the life of my Lord and Savior is a good thing, right? The sacraments? Same thing. Whenever I receive Jesus in the Eucharist at Mass, I feel peace. I feel in complete union with the One who died for my sins. Is it ritualistic? Yes, but it's also very liberating. And that was Christ's message to the world. He came to set the captives free. The more in line I am with my Church, the more freedom I have. I'm a slave of nothing to this world. Therefore, I want to shout this from the rooftops.......or on this forum:)
I'm sorry goldy, but I'm not seeing the freedom. You state the more in line you are with your church, the more freedom you have. How can your church give you freedom? It wasn't the church that was crucified, it was Christ. Now you say you are a slave of nothing to this world. But if the sacraments and the rosary are man made and you believe that they bring you to a place of peace with God, does that not make you a slave to ritual and religion, instead of a bondservant to Christ?
smile.gif
 

goldy

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I'm sorry goldy, but I'm not seeing the freedom. You state the more in line you are with your church, the more freedom you have. How can your church give you freedom? It wasn't the church that was crucified, it was Christ. Now you say you are a slave of nothing to this world. But if the sacraments and the rosary are man made and you believe that they bring you to a place of peace with God, does that not make you a slave to ritual and religion, instead of a bondservant to Christ?
smile.gif

If you're not seeing the freedom, then that's your opinion. Of course it was Christ who was crucified!! But it was the Church that He instituted (Mt. 16:18). The Church is a good thing. And remember, it's Christ's Church. He gave the keys to Peter, but it's still His Church. And sorry, but the sacraments and the rosary aren't man-made. Who told you that?The life of a Catholic-Christian isn't easy. It's not for spiritual "sissies". After all, Christ's life wasn't all flowers and rainbows. The Catholic Church is constantly stemming the tide of materialism, liberalism, moral relativism, abortion, hedonism, etc. Why? Because the Church knows that something bigger and better is out there. The Church teaches us that we are to be in this world, but not OF THIS WORLD. As Christians, Christ taught us to deny ourselves, pick up our crosses, and follow Him. The same message resonates within my Church.