Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,551
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you want to accept John Calvin's OSAS, that's up to you. He invented it.

I don't know John Calvin or his teaching, so that is irrelevant to me.

If you choose to accept Catholic teaching that teaches Being Converted BY Christ the Lord is not forever, that is your choice, and BLO's choice. I'll TRUST the Lord.

Salvation by works is an anti-Catholic myth.

Salvation by works is an anti-Christ myth.

"Personal Lord and Savior" is a slogan. It's not explicit in scripture no matter how many verses you quote.

I KNOW it is not in Scripture; However the teaching of the Concept and Understanding IS....same as "Rapture" and "TRINITY'.

The concept is not contested but it's not the whole story. The gospel was delivered to a community, preserved by a community, then written for a community. Jesus taught us to pray "OUR Father..." not MY Father.

UH HUH, Because "father" is about "relationship". He is not our Personal Father.
We did not COME forth OUT OF GOD. Jesus did.

The Bible, Christianity, does not teach extreme individualism, and that is where "personal Lord and Savior" leads.
DISAGREE

Personal intimacy with the Lord is a good thing,

AGREE.

but too much individualism has contributed to the undermining of the community. and cancerous division.

DISAGREE.

Two intellectual offspring of the Enlightenment include radical individualism and secularism. Their origins and causes are complex, but their reality is something that we live with day in and day out, as we are all affected deeply, but unreflectively, by their influence. And both are inimical to the Gospel of Christ.

Psychobabble.
 

epostle1

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2012
3,326
507
113
72
Essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I don't know John Calvin or his teaching, so that is irrelevant to me.
That's an admission that you blindly accept John Calvin's inventions.
If you choose to accept Catholic teaching that teaches Being Converted BY Christ the Lord is not forever, that is your choice, and BLO's choice. I'll TRUST the Lord.
That's not Catholic teaching.
1 Cor. 9:24-27 – Paul says that all the runners compete, but only one wins the prize. Paul recognizes that if he doesn’t train himself properly in perseverance, he too can become “disqualified.” The word “disqualified” comes from the Greek word “adokimos” which literally means cut off from Christ, or reprobate. When “adokimos” is used in the Scriptures, it always refers to those who are to be condemned by God. It has nothing to do with going to heaven with less rewards. See, for example, Rom. 1:28; Titus 1:16; 2 Tim. 3:8; Heb. 6:8; 2 Cor. 13:5-7. This proves that Saint Paul thought he could lose his salvation. No one would reasonably argue that Paul wasn’t “saved” when he wrote the Scriptures. So if Saint Paul thought that he could lose his salvation, why do many Protestants think that they cannot lose theirs? You get the eternal prize after you die, not before.

1 Cor. 9:24 – Paul says that only one wins the “prize” (brabeion). To further prove that the race Paul is writing about refers to our journey to heaven, “brabeion” always has a soteriological implication. See, for example, Phil. 3:14 where “prize” refers to the upward call of God in Christ Jesus (which is heaven).

Phil. 3:11-14 – Paul writes that “if possible,” he may attain the resurrection, says he is not perfect, and presses on toward the prize of salvation. Paul has no presumption of salvation but works it out in fear and trembling.
I KNOW it is not in Scripture; However the teaching of the Concept and Understanding IS....same as "Rapture" and "TRINITY'.
Trinity can be found in Scripture. The Second Coming occurs ONCE, not one and a half times. The Rapture theory was invented by a retired sea captain in 1830. Later it was placed in the footnotes of the Thompson Chain Reference Bible and evolved into a doctrine by American Protestants.

“But do you also, if you please, give reverential attention to the prophetic Scriptures, and they will make your way plainer for escaping the eternal punishments, and obtaining the eternal prizes of God.
Theophilius of Antioch, To Autolycus, I:14 (A.D. 181).

But you have nothing to do with the Church of Antioch 181 A.D.



church_bible_based.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,551
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's an admission that you blindly accept John Calvin's inventions.

Thanks for sharing your ignorant assessment and false understanding.

Repeating for your LACK of comprehension...
I revealed I do not know Calvins teaching, nor follow his teaching, and that I follow the teachings of Christ Jesus.

That's not Catholic teaching.

So? It is not ANY teaching I presented.

Pretty CONEIVING for you to MAKE FALSE CALIMS FOR ME, then WANT to prove what YOU CALIMED FOR ME IS WRONG!

You using Satan's tactics doesn't impress me.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,551
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
.
1 Cor. 9:24-27 – Paul says that all the runners compete, but only one wins the prize. Paul recognizes that if he doesn’t train himself properly in perseverance, he too can become “disqualified.” The word “disqualified” comes from the Greek word “adokimos” which literally means cut off from Christ, or reprobate. When “adokimos” is used in the Scriptures, it always refers to those who are to be condemned by God. It has nothing to do with going to heaven with less rewards. See, for example, Rom. 1:28; Titus 1:16; 2 Tim. 3:8; Heb. 6:8; 2 Cor. 13:5-7. This proves that Saint Paul thought he could lose his salvation. No one would reasonably argue that Paul wasn’t “saved” when he wrote the Scriptures. So if Saint Paul thought that he could lose his salvation, why do many Protestants think that they cannot lose theirs? You get the eternal prize after you die, not before.

1 Cor. 9:24 – Paul says that only one wins the “prize” (brabeion). To further prove that the race Paul is writing about refers to our journey to heaven, “brabeion” always has a soteriological implication. See, for example, Phil. 3:14 where “prize” refers to the upward call of God in Christ Jesus (which is heaven).

Phil. 3:11-14 – Paul writes that “if possible,” he may attain the resurrection, says he is not perfect, and presses on toward the prize of salvation. Paul has no presumption of salvation but works it out in fear and trembling.

Thanks for sharing MORE of your LACK of understanding.

Salvation IS not a PRIZE, it is a GIFT.
Being BORN AGAIN, is a GIFT.

THOSE ^^ ARE GIFTS to an individual "FOR" having Believed AND "heartfully" "ACCEPTED" Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Accepting those GIFTS "converts" them....
TO: being MADE holy WHOLE and acceptably "PERFECTED" IN CHRIST.

They are not PERFECT Flesh. They are PERFECTED Spiritually BY the Lord, IN the Lord.

You are speaking of being "QUALIFIED" for "A PRIZE", yet Failed to understand WHAT the PRIZE "IS".

Paul TELLS you WHAT THE PRIZE IS....(FOR a man PERFECTED IN THE Lord).

Phil 3:14
I press toward THE MARK for the PRIZE of the HIGH CALLING of God IN CHRIST JESUS.

Paul's HIGH CALLING was to TEACH.
Paul PRESSES FORWARD "TO" please the Lord in Paul's teaching others ABOUT the Lord.

A man WHO "IS" Converted, IS guaranteed the REWARD of the "CROWN of Life".

However there ARE OTHER "Rewards" given a Converted man "WHO" serves the Lord ACCORDING TO "Gods PRECEPTS".
Ie OTHER CROWNS.

Crowns received establishes a mans POSITION IN the Lords Kingdom.

IOW...all who are saved and born again...receive the Crown of Life....but NOT ALL receive all the OTHER CROWNS that CAN BE / COULD HAVE BEEN received.

Phil 1:1
Begins telling you WHO Paul is begins speaking TO;
"HIS" dearly BELOVED BRETHREN...which Are they WHO ARE Saved and Born Again, ie saints........AND LIKE Paul.....TEACHERS...ie the HIGH calling.

High Calling...greater responsibility.
Higher Calling....greater rewards possible.....as Paul was teaching (teachers)
About their responsibility of BEING Teachers.
Phil 4:1

Learn to divide the word of truth...
Big difference between;
Gifts and Prizes
Doing Works and Following Precepts
Walking in the flesh and walking in the spirit
The Saved and the Unsaved
Being the Teacher or the Student
Etc.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,551
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED:

new_ltsb_300.png

Become INFORMED with Gods Truth.

A mans SIN Against God................IS;

DISBELIEF IN thee Lord God Almighty!

A man WHO has Become FORGIVEN, SAVED and BORN AGAIN is an ABSOLUTE that FOREVER that man WILL BELIEVE IN and STAND WITH the Lord and FOREVER the Lord WILL BE WITH and IN that man.

You think.......Becoming Saved and Born Again IS A LICENSE to REJECT BELIEF IN GOD?

License to SIN IS anti-Scriptural and ridiculous teaching.
 

epostle1

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2012
3,326
507
113
72
Essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
First, stop screeching.
Second, a "prize" is an analogy, it is not literal. Take it up with Paul.
Third, you can deny following John Calvin all day, but OSAS was his invention.
Forth, license to sin is a consequence of OSAS, you have your "prize" before the race is over which makes no sense.

Matt. 10:22, 24:13; Mark 13:13 – Jesus taught that we must endure to the very end to be saved. If this is true, then how can Protestants believe in the erroneous teaching of “Once saved, always saved?” If salvation occurred at a specific point in time when we accepted Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, there would be no need to endure to the end. We would already be saved.
SALVATION - Scripture Catholic

Matt. 25:31-46 – Jesus’ teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats is based on the works that were done during their lives, not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior. In fact, this teaching even demonstrates that those who are ultimately saved do not necessarily have to know Christ. Also, we don’t accept Christ; He accepts us. God first makes the decision to accept us before we could ever accept Him.

Matt. 25:40,45 – Jesus says “Whatever you did to the least of my brothers, you did it to Me.” We are judged and our eternal destiny is determined in accordance with our works.

Luke 12:43-48 – these verses teach us that we must act according to the Lord’s will. We are judged based upon what we know and then do, not just upon what we know.

Rom. 2:6-10, 13 – God will judge every man according to his works. Our salvation depends on how we cooperate with God’s grace. That's what "works" means, how we cooperate with God’s grace. Contrary to the psychotic babbling of anti-Catholics, we cannot earn salvation with works apart from that.

Rev. 2:5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians they have fallen from love they used to have, and orders them to do good works. He is not satisfied with their faith alone. They need to do more than accept Him as personal Lord and Savior.

Rev. 2:26 – Jesus says he who conquers and keeps my works until the end will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus thus instructs us to keep his works to the very end. This is not necessary if we are “once saved, always saved.”

Rev. 3:15 – Jesus says, “I know your works, you are neither cold nor hot. Because you are lukewarm, I will spew you out of my mouth.” Jesus is condemning indifferentism, which is often based on our works.

Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 – Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.

Heb. 9:12 – Christ’s sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God’s doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of “once saved, always saved,” such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.

Rom. 5:2 – we rejoice in the “hope” (not the presumptuous certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is absolutely assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?

Rom. 5:5 – this “hope” does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Our hope is assured if we persevere to the end.

Eph. 6:10-17 – Paul instructs the Ephesians to take the whole armor of God, the breastplate of righteousness, and the helmet of salvation, in order “to stand,” lest they fall. Paul does not give any assurance that the spiritual battle is already won.

Rom. 8:24 – this “hope” of salvation that Paul writes about is unnecessary if salvation is guaranteed. If salvation is assured, then why hope?

Rom. 10:1 – Paul prays that the Jews “may be saved.” Why pray if it’s guaranteed? Further, why pray unless you can mediate?

Phil. 3:11 – Paul shares Christ’s sufferings so that “if possible” he may attain resurrection. Paul does not view his own resurrection as a certainty.

1 Tim. 4:10 – Paul says we toil and strive because we have our “hope” (not our assurance) on the living God. This is not because God is unfaithful, but because we can be unfaithful. We toil and strive for our salvation.

1 Tim. 5:5 – she who is a real widow, and is left all alone, has set her “hope” (not her assurance) on God. Our hope is a guarantee only if we persevere to the end.

2 Tim. 2:10 – Paul endures for the elect so that they “may also obtain salvation.” This verse teaches us that even the “elect,” from the standpoint of human knowledge, have no guarantee of salvation.

Titus 1:2 – Paul says that he is in the “hope” (not the certainty) of eternal life. Paul knows that his hope is a guarantee if he perseveres, but his ability to choose sin over God makes his attainment of eternal life less than an absolute certainty until it is actually achieved.

Titus 3:7 – Paul says we have been given the Spirit so we might become heirs in the “hope” (not the certainty) of eternal life.

James 1:12 – we must endure trial and withstand the test in order to receive the crown of life. It is not guaranteed.

1 Peter 1:3 – by His mercy we have been born anew to a living “hope” through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

1 Peter 1:13 – set your “hope” (not assurance) fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:2 – like newborn babes, long for spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation. How can you grow up to something you already possess?

1 Peter 3:15 – always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who calls you to account for the “hope” that is in you.

1 John 3:3 – and everyone who thus “hopes” in Him purifies himself as He is pure. These verses teach us that we must cooperate with God’s grace and persevere to the end to be saved. We can and do have a moral certitude of salvation if we persevere in faith, hope and love.


C341Pic1672.gif
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,551
12,966
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Second, a "prize" is an analogy, it is not literal.

Disagree.

Third, you can deny following John Calvin all day, but OSAS was his invention.

Big of you to tell me I can deny what YOU have said for me. LOL

Forth, license to sin is a consequence of OSAS,

What psychobabble. A man IN Christ has received his Salvation FOREVER. It is KEPT unto the man BY God our Savior.

Jude 1: 24 - 25

you have your "prize" before the race is over which makes no sense.

I have the INDWELLING Holy Spirit! Which makes perfect sense that HIS POWER KEEPS me FOREVER unto Him!

Matt. 10:22, 24:13; Mark 13:13 – Jesus taught that we must endure to the very end to be saved.

If this is true, then how can Protestants believe in the teaching of “Once saved, always saved?”

EASY.
It is TRUSTING the Word of God IS TRUTH!
EASY.
It is TRUSTING Christ the Lord Jesus IS the Savior and Power of God, Which Can NEVER Fail in what He accomplished in an Individual.

If salvation occurred at a specific point in time when we accepted Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, there would be no need to endure to the end. We would already be saved.

A man IN CHRIST, IS SAVED and endures to the end, BY HIS Indwelling POWER.


A Jew who believes IN God but NOT Jesus IS the Christ, Must endure to his end by HIS OWN POWER to KEEP THE LAW, they have elected to remain SUBJECT TO.

Matt. 25:31-46 – Jesus’ teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats
is based on the works that were done during their lives,

No it is not.

not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior.

Yes it is.
Acts 16:31

Also, we don’t accept Christ;

Yes we do.


He accepts us.

He calls MANY, and CHOOSES few.

God first makes the decision to accept us before we could ever accept Him.

Not the Point of WHO is first.
Point IS; there are TWO PARTIES;
God and the Individual;
Each must ELECT/CHOOE the other.


Matt. 25:40,45 – Jesus says “Whatever you did to the least of my brothers, you did it to Me.” We are judged and our eternal destiny is determined in accordance with our works.

Of course your works are judged.
Not a secret Good works that glorify God the man is blessed with gifts from God. Works that did not glorify God, become burned.

Luke 12:43-48 – these verses teach us that we must act according to the Lord’s will.

A topic all its own.

Rom. 2:6-10, 13 – God will judge every man according to his works.

Already addressed.

Our salvation depends on how we cooperate with God’s grace.

For a NATURAL MAN still UNsaved still

"IN" HIS SINS....YES.

For a NEW MAN "IN" Christ....NO.

That's what "works" means, how we cooperate with God’s grace.

No it does not.
A NATURAL MAN "IN" SIN, can not "DO WORKS" pleasing TO GOD.
A NEW MAN "IN" CHRIST...CAN DO "WORKS" that PLEASE GOD/GLORIFY GOD and the man WILL BE BLESSED, also unglorifying works of such man shall be burned.

You don't get it;
A mans works do not save the man.
A saved mans works Consequence IS;
HIS WORKS (not HIM) are either a Blessing unto him or Burned.

Rev. 2:5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians they have fallen from love they used to have, and orders them to do good works.

You identify Rev 2:5 the tell me what Ephesians says...weird.

Rev. 2:26 – Jesus says he who conquers and keeps my works until the end will be rewarded in heaven.

It gives the CONDITION....A man WHO HAS OVERCOME...which IS SAVED, IS BORN AGAIN....and KEEPS "HIS" WORKS....NOT A MANS WORKS....shall be rewarded...

Same things I have already said.

Jesus thus instructs us to keep his works to the very end.

So? Keeping HIS WORKS, is not your argument. YOU have been saying A MAN MUST DO WORKS.

You are all over the place and can't even keep your own argument on tract.
 
Last edited:

epostle1

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2012
3,326
507
113
72
Essex
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Why do a majority of "indwelt" Protestants reject OSAS?
Does having the Holy Spirit make you infallible?
Why are Pentecostal Protestants, all having the Holy Spirit, divided into 200 denominations in a few short years since they began?

My arguments are on track. You just disagree with Paul. And you make up straw man fallacies about "works", you have no clue what it means.

Matt. 7:18 – Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.

Matt. 7:21 – all those who say “Lord, Lord” on the last day will not be saved. They are judged by their evil deeds.

Matt. 12:30-32 – Jesus says that he who is not with Him is against Him, therefore (the Greek for “therefore” is “dia toutos” which means “through this”) blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. This means that failing to persevere in Jesus’ grace to the end is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. We must persevere in faith to the end of our lives.

Matt. 22:14 – Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God’s banquet, but was cast out.

Luke 8:13 – Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.

Luke 12:42-46 – we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”

John 6:70-71 – Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.

John 15:1-10 – we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

John 17:12 – we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.

John 6:37 – those who continue to come to Jesus He won’t cast out. But it’s a continuous, ongoing action. We can leave Jesus and He will allow this because He respects our freewill.

John 6:39 – Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.

John 6:40 – everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person “continues” to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.

John 6:44 – Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father “draws” him. This “drawing” is an ongoing process.

John 10:27-28 – when Jesus says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hands,” He does not mean we can’t leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.

Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).

Rev. 3:4 – in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.

Rev. 3:5 – Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.

Rev. 3:11 – Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.

Rev. 13:10; 14:12 – we are called from heaven for the endurance and faith of the saints, keeping the commandments and faith.

Rev. 21:7 – we must conquer in order to share in our heritage and become a true son of Jesus.

Rev. 22:19 – we can have a share in the tree of life in God’s holy city and yet have that share taken away from us.

I'll sit back and watch you disagree with Jesus.
 

Grams

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2017
1,509
1,080
113
88
brown city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Once you believe you have it for ever.......... Faith and belief !

If you have doubt, then you do not have it.....

Upon belief you are saved and have it all FOREVER!!!!!!
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Once you believe you have it for ever.......... Faith and belief !
If you have doubt, then you do not have it.....
Upon belief you are saved and have it all FOREVER!!!!!!
Then, perhaps YOU can show me where Scripture states this because nobody else has been able to do this in 3150 posts.

Chapter and Verse, please . . .
 

Grams

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2017
1,509
1,080
113
88
brown city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
WHAT ?????????????? Do you think GOD would take it away from you after believing ???

What god do you believe in ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I guess not my GOD!
 

Grams

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2017
1,509
1,080
113
88
brown city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Eph.2;
8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,936
3,387
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
WHAT ?????????????? Do you think GOD would take it away from you after believing ???
What god do you believe in ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I guess not my GOD!
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Perhaps you haven't been reading the posts - so allow me to educate you on the Scriptures.

God absolutely will TAKE AWAY from your share in the Tree of Life if you abandon Him - AFTER you come to faith . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth
, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind, deaf and dumb person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.
 

Heb 13:8

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2016
2,040
331
83
USA
Matt. 10:22, 24:13; Mark 13:13 – Jesus taught that we must endure to the very end to be saved. If this is true, then how can Protestants believe in the erroneous teaching of “Once saved, always saved?” If salvation occurred at a specific point in time when we accepted Jesus as personal Lord and Savior, there would be no need to endure to the end. We would already be saved.
SALVATION - Scripture Catholic

Matt. 25:31-46 – Jesus’ teaching on the separation of the sheep from the goats is based on the works that were done during their lives, not just on their acceptance of Christ as Savior. In fact, this teaching even demonstrates that those who are ultimately saved do not necessarily have to know Christ. Also, we don’t accept Christ; He accepts us. God first makes the decision to accept us before we could ever accept Him.

Matt. 25:40,45 – Jesus says “Whatever you did to the least of my brothers, you did it to Me.” We are judged and our eternal destiny is determined in accordance with our works.

Luke 12:43-48 – these verses teach us that we must act according to the Lord’s will. We are judged based upon what we know and then do, not just upon what we know.

Rom. 2:6-10, 13 – God will judge every man according to his works. Our salvation depends on how we cooperate with God’s grace. That's what "works" means, how we cooperate with God’s grace. Contrary to the psychotic babbling of anti-Catholics, we cannot earn salvation with works apart from that.

Rev. 2:5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians they have fallen from love they used to have, and orders them to do good works. He is not satisfied with their faith alone. They need to do more than accept Him as personal Lord and Savior.

Rev. 2:26 – Jesus says he who conquers and keeps my works until the end will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus thus instructs us to keep his works to the very end. This is not necessary if we are “once saved, always saved.”

Rev. 3:15 – Jesus says, “I know your works, you are neither cold nor hot. Because you are lukewarm, I will spew you out of my mouth.” Jesus is condemning indifferentism, which is often based on our works.

Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 – Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.

Heb. 9:12 – Christ’s sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God’s doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of “once saved, always saved,” such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.

Rom. 5:2 – we rejoice in the “hope” (not the presumptuous certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is absolutely assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?

Rom. 5:5 – this “hope” does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Our hope is assured if we persevere to the end.

Eph. 6:10-17 – Paul instructs the Ephesians to take the whole armor of God, the breastplate of righteousness, and the helmet of salvation, in order “to stand,” lest they fall. Paul does not give any assurance that the spiritual battle is already won.

Rom. 8:24 – this “hope” of salvation that Paul writes about is unnecessary if salvation is guaranteed. If salvation is assured, then why hope?

Rom. 10:1 – Paul prays that the Jews “may be saved.” Why pray if it’s guaranteed? Further, why pray unless you can mediate?

Phil. 3:11 – Paul shares Christ’s sufferings so that “if possible” he may attain resurrection. Paul does not view his own resurrection as a certainty.

1 Tim. 4:10 – Paul says we toil and strive because we have our “hope” (not our assurance) on the living God. This is not because God is unfaithful, but because we can be unfaithful. We toil and strive for our salvation.

1 Tim. 5:5 – she who is a real widow, and is left all alone, has set her “hope” (not her assurance) on God. Our hope is a guarantee only if we persevere to the end.

2 Tim. 2:10 – Paul endures for the elect so that they “may also obtain salvation.” This verse teaches us that even the “elect,” from the standpoint of human knowledge, have no guarantee of salvation.

Titus 1:2 – Paul says that he is in the “hope” (not the certainty) of eternal life. Paul knows that his hope is a guarantee if he perseveres, but his ability to choose sin over God makes his attainment of eternal life less than an absolute certainty until it is actually achieved.

Titus 3:7 – Paul says we have been given the Spirit so we might become heirs in the “hope” (not the certainty) of eternal life.

James 1:12 – we must endure trial and withstand the test in order to receive the crown of life. It is not guaranteed.

1 Peter 1:3 – by His mercy we have been born anew to a living “hope” through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

1 Peter 1:13 – set your “hope” (not assurance) fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:2 – like newborn babes, long for spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation. How can you grow up to something you already possess?

1 Peter 3:15 – always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who calls you to account for the “hope” that is in you.

1 John 3:3 – and everyone who thus “hopes” in Him purifies himself as He is pure. These verses teach us that we must cooperate with God’s grace and persevere to the end to be saved. We can and do have a moral certitude of salvation if we persevere in faith, hope and love.

Jhn 5:36-40 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.