We LOVE the CATHOLICS!

ScottA · Jun 7, 2018

This is a debate forum and things get said that could and often should be considered as harsh. But, for the record...most of us here LOVE THE CATHOLICS. Do we disagree on things? Yes, but we do so as parent and child. Allow me to explain:

We are indeed the children of the fathers of the church...but we all have not taken the same path as our parents. Which is not to say that we have left off from following God, but have rather taken a different fork in the road, a different path. You see, the passages that Catholics sight as the reason for what they believe, claiming that Christ said He would build His church on the rock otherwise know as Peter...also says something else. In fact the whole passage is about "how" Jesus would build His church, not upon "who." This, He said was by the same means by which Peter came to know that Jesus was the Christ, which was by the spirit, through His Father in heaven. So, Peter was just the [object] of that passage, but the [subject] was the spirit of God...and that is the fork in the road: the church fathers followed Peter and built their church on earth, while the spirit of God built His church without hands.

Thus, being the children of both men and of the spirit of God - some have gone separate ways. Which does not make us enemies, but makes us separate in spirit, siblings of another father...but having the same mother (so to speak).

Another way to view our family tie, is to consider that we are like the next generation of Israel that crossed the Jordan after God saw fit to let the previous generation wander in the wilderness and die in the desert and not get to go on into the promised land. Do you think there was any rivalry or hatred between the next generation and their forefathers? Maybe. But if there was, it would have been uncalled for - just as it is now uncalled for between the church fathers and we who are of their children who have crossed over the Jordan that Jesus presented between building His church upon a man or by the spirit of God.

So, yes, there has been a departure between those who follow the sons of men and those who follow the spirit of God - and rightly so. But we are family...and we do not hate our forefathers, not Israel, and not the Catholics.

FHII · Jun 7, 2018

I have vowed not to attack people or even denominations. But doctrines I disagree on. There are plenty of Protestant and Catholic doctrines that I disagree with. I do my best not to make it personal. I fail at times.

I love to focus on truth, but Jesus also spoke of forgiveness. Thus, any problems the Catholic Church has are forgiven... There are plenty of resources where the Pope asked for forgiveness for many tbings we discuss.

They shouldn't be forgotten, but they should be forgiven.

People also should be thankful for the Catholic Church for its power. Christianity is often under attack. Haa been for centuries and the mega power of the Catholic Church has the resources to defend the faith. Europe never became Islamic. The folks that prevented that were Catholic. If Eurooe becomes Islamic, we might all be praying to Allah.

So doctrine wise... I may stay a thorne in traditionalism. Including Catholism. But there is much to respect about the history of the Catholic Church.

Philip James · Jun 7, 2018

ScottA said:
So, yes, there has been a departure between those who follow the sons of men and those who follow the spirit of God - and rightly so. But we are family...and we do not hate our forefathers, not Israel, and not the Catholics.

I would agree that there has been a departure between those who follow men, and those who follow the Spirit. For the Spirit calls us to build up the peace and unity of the Body, bearing with one another in love....

And those who followed men have continued to fracture into many different communities teaching many different things....

Those born into this sea of confusion are like sheep without a shephard, often falling prey to snakes and wolves who use them mercilessly...

They have heard the loving message of our Lord, but dont come to the wedding feast to be united with Him and their brethren....

They are each in their own boat, sometines alone, sometimes together, and i pray that when the storms come, the Lord will preseeve them...

But i know the barque of Peter will never founder, the boat from which our Lord instructs the crowds... Because He has said the gates of hell will not overcome it... And they will not...

Peace!

Helen · Jun 7, 2018

Philip James said:
I would agree that there has been a departure between those who follow men, and those who follow the Spirit. For the Spirit calls us to build up the peace and unity of the Body, bearing with one another in love....

And those who followed men have continued to fracture into many different communities teaching many different things....

Those born into this sea of confusion are like sheep without a shephard, often falling prey to snakes and wolves who use them mercilessly...

They have heard the loving message of our Lord, but dont come to the wedding feast to be united with Him and their brethren....

They are each in their own boat, sometines alone, sometimes together, and i pray that when the storms come, the Lord will preseeve them...

But i know the barque of Peter will never founder, the boat from which our Lord instructs the crowds... Because He has said the gates of hell will not overcome it... And they will not...

Peace!

Greetings
Am I wrong in believing that you are a Catholic? If so, I wish they were all like you

Your posts are so gracious and uplifting and have the anointing of the Lord upon them...it is obvious that you are not on this Site to continually be arguing about which church is right etc

Can you throw any light upon why it is all such a contentious issue all the time..daily.
I am not saying that it is all BOL or the other Catholics....I happen to like some of BOL's posts...and he is always very gracious and friendly to me. Sometimes he is posting four or five against one!
Many non-catholics here take every opportunity to bring the issue up, and take pot shot at them..and often just for the sake of it.

I have said many times on this Site that when "the chips are down" all Christians will be attacked equally, as the anti-christ spirits come against all those who name the name of Christ..they will see no difference between us.
Isn't it sad that so many on 'both sides' of the issue do see so much division!

I agree with Scott ...I rejoice with all those who ( truly) love the Lord and follow Him....whatever the differences in doctrine...I call all brethren.

Bless you brother.

Philip James · Jun 7, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Greetings
Am I wrong in believing that you are a Catholic? If so, I wish they were all like you

Hello!
You are not wrong. I am Catholic. Each of us have different gifts that God uses to build up the Body in different ways.. One prays, another exhorts, one does works of charity , another teaches, one suffers another rejoices, one weeps, another comforts one has Faith to move mountains, another has love overflowing, one worships in solitude and silence another sings out hymns of joy in the asembly... but The beautiful thing about being catholic is that all of those gifts are ONE, we belong to Christ AND to each other!

But thank you

Your posts are so gracious and uplifting and have the anointing of the Lord upon them...it is obvious that you are not on this Site to continually be arguing about which church is right etc

Honestly, the Lord put a burning fire in my heart to seek out the Lost sheep of the House of Israel and to invite them to His wedding feast.... He brought me here first

Can you throw any light upon why it is all such a contentious issue all the time..daily.

well I can think of a few reasons...
1. some people enjoy a good argument (I'm guilty!)
2. some rail against the Catholic Church because that is what they have been taught by others
3. some Catholics don't see the Grace that has been given to the protestant churches
4. some attack a catholic church strawman of their own making, rather than examining what the Church actually teaches
5. some dont actually read and consider the others argument
6. some arguments are irrational and illogical
7.pride
8.Pride
9.PRIDE
....

I am not saying that it is all BOL or the other Catholics....I happen to like some of BOL's posts...and he is always very gracious and friendly to me. Sometimes he is posting four or five against one!
Many non-catholics here take every opportunity to bring the issue up, and take pot shot at them..and often just for the sake of it.

And from what I have seen he handles that pretty well. I hope he continues to do so.
Most Catholics I know, are quite willing to have a rational, logical discussion about doctrine... but when others continue to accuse them of teaching or believing things that we dont teach and believe it can be tiresome...

And of course the Eucharist will always be a contentious issue... it was in John 6:66

I have said many times on this Site that when "the chips are down" all Christians will be attacked equally, as the anti-christ spirits come against all those who name the name of Christ..they will see no difference between us.

all who prove true, I agree... but there are tares along with the wheat... unfortunate that it often takes persecution and fire to purify..

Isn't it sad that so many on 'both sides' of the issue do see so much division!

I agree with Scott ...I rejoice with all those who ( truly) love the Lord and follow Him....whatever the differences in doctrine...I call all brethren.

Bless you brother.

Indeed, and there's nothing I'd enjoy more than to see you at the wedding feast, in this world or the next

Peace!

Truth7t7 · Jun 8, 2018

Philip James said:
I would agree that there has been a departure between those who follow men, and those who follow the Spirit. For the Spirit calls us to build up the peace and unity of the Body, bearing with one another in love....

And those who followed men have continued to fracture into many different communities teaching many different things....

Those born into this sea of confusion are like sheep without a shephard, often falling prey to snakes and wolves who use them mercilessly...

They have heard the loving message of our Lord, but dont come to the wedding feast to be united with Him and their brethren....

They are each in their own boat, sometines alone, sometimes together, and i pray that when the storms come, the Lord will preseeve them...

But i know the barque of Peter will never founder, the boat from which our Lord instructs the crowds... Because He has said the gates of hell will not overcome it... And they will not...

Peace!

I See Scott is extending the "Olive Branch & Dove" Good Job Scott I Agree!

What does Philip James do, jumps right into everyody is outside the boat of the (Catholic Church) and need to come to It's authority through Peter, Why Phil?

Phil, Scott extended the olive branch, and you threw it to the ground and stepped on it, the dove tried to fly away and you shot it, "Why"?

The Pope Nor The Catholic Church Are God's "Boat" or Spoke Person On Earth.

People Need To Be Freed From The Bondage Of Catholicism, And The Pope.

Thousands of God Fearing Men Outside The RCC Are God's Spoke Persons.

1.) Men fracture in different communities?
2.) Sheep without a shepherd (The Pope)?
3.) Come to wedding feast (Eucharist), be United with brethren (Catholics)?
4.) Men row their own boat (Protestants Etc)?
5.) Barque of Peter (Catholic Church) "the boat" who the Lord uses to instruct the crowds, Gates of hell won't prevail, famous saying of RCC.

Why Do You Have To Ram Catholicism, At The Extended Olive Branch, Why?

The Snakes And Wolves Are Inside The Catholic Church, Sexually Abusing Innocent Children, Are You Blind.

NewYorkPost

Vatican cops bust drug-fueled gay orgy at home of cardinal’s aide
By Tamar Lapin
July 5, 2017 | 9:59am

Pope Francis, surrounded by cardinals, leads a consistory at St. Peter's Basilica.Getty Images

Vatican police raided a drug-fueled gay-sex party at an apartment belonging to an aide of one of Pope Francis’ key advisers, according to a new report.

The Holy Father is “enraged,” since the home, inhabited by Francesco Cardinal Coccopalmerio’s secretary, belongs to the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith — the arm charged with tackling clerical sex abuse, the Italian paper Il Fatto Quotidiano reported.

Cops raided the apartment in late June after neighbors voiced concern about multiple people acting strangely while streaming in and out of the residence, the newspaper reported Wednesday.

Once police were inside the apartment, they said they found multiple men engaged in rampant drug use and homosexual activity.

They then arrested the priest — an aide to one of Pope Francis’ key advisers — after taking him to a clinic to detox from the drugs he’d ingested.

The scandal comes just a week after the Vatican was rocked by sex-abuse allegations against high-ranking church official George Cardinal Pell.

Pell was charged with multiple counts of historical sexual assault offenses by Australian police.

The cardinal, who served as Pope Francis’ chief financial adviser and is Australia’s most senior Catholic, is the highest-ranking Vatican official ever to be charged in the church’s sexual- abuse scandals.

ScottA · Jun 8, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
See Scott is extending the "Olive Branch & Dove" Good Job Scott I Agree!

What does Philip James do, jumps right into everyody is outside the boat of the (Catholic Church) and need to come to It's authority through Peter, Why Phil?

Phil, Scott extended the olive branch, and you threw it to the ground and stepped on it, the dove tried to fly away and you shot it, "Why"?

The Pope Nor The Catholic Church Are God's Spoke Person On Earth.

People Need To Be Freed From The Bondage Of Catholicism, And The Pope.

Thousands of God Fearing Men Outside The RCC Are God's Spoke Persons.

The Snakes And Wolves Are Inside The Catholic Church, Sexually Abusing Innocent Children, Are You Blind.

1.) Men fracture in different communities?
2.) Sheep without a shepherd?
3.) Come to wedding feast, be United with brethren?
4.) Men row their own boat?
5.) Barque of Peter (Catholic Church) "the boat" who the Lord uses to instruct the crowds?

Hmmm... I guess I don't know the lingo well enough to have understood all that he was saying. Anyway, he seems to have a heart for peace. Perhaps we can lay down the lingo and come to an understanding. I should hope.

brakelite · Jun 8, 2018

ScottA said:
Hmmm... I guess I don't know the lingo well enough to have understood all that he was saying. Anyway, he seems to have a heart for peace. Perhaps we can lay down the lingo and come to an understanding. I should hope.

Scott, laying down the lingo and coming to an understanding will be the death of truth. In 1997, or thereabouts, the Catholics and the Lutherans came to "an understanding". They signed a declaration on justification by faith, a statement that purportedly declared they were now in agreement, that after 500 years there is now no difference between the two parties on such a basic belief on how to be saved. That my friend is because one sentence can be read and understood by one party to mean one thing, and mean something completely different by the other. Yet because the sentence 'sounds' compatible to both parties, it is accepted as a mutual compromise. Its nonsense. It is because Protestants do not understand the lingo of Catholicism that they are now en masse returning to Rome, thinking Rome has changed. Nuh, all Rome has learned is how to use language to deceive.

That said, yes, of course we love the Catholics, and for that reason I will never cease to protest and testify of truth and call them out of that apostate system.

brakelite · Jun 8, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
I have said many times on this Site that when "the chips are down" all Christians will be attacked equally, as the anti-christ spirits come against all those who name the name of Christ..they will see no difference between us.

I agree with the above. But one must remember that those anti-Christ spirits are also claiming to be Christians. The Antichrist is a counterfeit Christian system. So clever that "if it were possible, even the elect" would be deceived. All the world, all the nations, tribes, languages and peoples on this planet will join with this counterfeit claiming the name of Christ, and accusing the true Christians of being antichrist. Much in every way the same as the Jews accusing Jesus of being Beelzebub. The trick @"ByGrace" is knowing the difference. We will not learn the difference by shutting down discussion. And by the time of the end, there will be a vast difference between us...so much the angels will recognise us as if we are sheep and goats. But those goats right to the end will be proclaiming they have the truth.
When someone new comes into your church they need to be warned of those differences. Warned that when "the chips are cast down", they need to know who they are to be running from. They will not learn by simply loving them and not informing them of the issues that divide us. Issues that make goats friends of the antichrist, and the sheep, his enemies. Pretending all is well and everyone who claims the name of Jesus is a Christian by default is not going to benefit anyone.
I have said this often, and will repeat it here. The Antichrist is not some runaway train that comes from the future horizon and runs roughshod over everything and everyone that calls themselves Christian. The Antichrist is here already, leaning over the back fence with a smile and tokens of peace inviting you to the neighbourhood barbecue. And you will be on the menu.

Philip James · Jun 8, 2018

Truth7t7 said:
I See Scott is extending the "Olive Branch & Dove" Good Job Scott I Agree!

What does Philip James do, jumps right into everyody is outside the boat of the (Catholic Church) and need to come to It's authority through Peter, Why Phil?

Phil, Scott extended the olive branch, and you threw it to the ground and stepped on it, the dove tried to fly away and you shot it, "Why"?

I answered him in the same spirit as his opening post. We both made clear how we see the state of catholics and protestants, and did so without animosity. That there is a divide between us obvious, but that soes not prevent us from speaking to each other respectfully, and yes, in love. That you fail to see this is on you..

Now as to your questions:

1.) Men fracture in different communities?

1 John2: 19

2.) Sheep without a shepherd (The Pope)?

Jer 50:6

3.) Come to wedding feast (Eucharist), be United with brethren (Catholics)?

John 6:55-56

4.) Men row their own boat (Protestants Etc)?

John 5:39-40

5.) Barque of Peter (Catholic Church) "the boat" who the Lord uses to instruct the crowds, Gates of hell won't prevail, famous saying of RCC.

Luke 5:3

Peace!

Philip James · Jun 8, 2018

brakelite said:
and accusing the true Christians of being antichrist.

you have said it...

Born_Again · Jun 8, 2018

Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
1 Thessalonians 5:11

Helen · Jun 8, 2018

Philip James said:
well I can think of a few reasons...
1. some people enjoy a good argument (I'm guilty!)
2. some rail against the Catholic Church because that is what they have been taught by others
3. some Catholics don't see the Grace that has been given to the protestant churches
4. some attack a catholic church strawman of their own making, rather than examining what the Church actually teaches
5. some dont actually read and consider the others argument
6. some arguments are irrational and illogical
7.pride
8.Pride
9.PRIDE

Well Phillip I guess all any of us do is to make sure there are no weeds in our own vineyard! " they made me the keeper of their vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept."

I fully believe that there is good and evil people ( spirits) hidden in both camps. We protestants have an abundance of false teachers throughout...
" Woe unto the false shepherds..."

That is why God gave us the anointing and discerning of spirits....whoever does not exercise this in the Spirit is a fool. But most I hear is as if they believe it is by 'the spirit of suspicion'!! Even as far as fear mongering, because they themselves are not confident and in peace ...because their own fear dictates to them and drives them..therefore they pass it on as spiritual wisdom!!

People who are confident in the Lord don't need to keep harping on about the same old thing. The Lord WINS, He will always win....our safety it remaining Hidden in Him. " Christ in me the hope of glory"

All the while people keep looking suspiciously and in fear at each other ..at least the Devil is happy with that...because it keeps them busy and not advancing the Kingdom of God against him.

ScottA · Jun 8, 2018

brakelite said:
Scott, laying down the lingo and coming to an understanding will be the death of truth. In 1997, or thereabouts, the Catholics and the Lutherans came to "an understanding". They signed a declaration on justification by faith, a statement that purportedly declared they were now in agreement, that after 500 years there is now no difference between the two parties on such a basic belief on how to be saved. That my friend is because one sentence can be read and understood by one party to mean one thing, and mean something completely different by the other. Yet because the sentence 'sounds' compatible to both parties, it is accepted as a mutual compromise. Its nonsense. It is because Protestants do not understand the lingo of Catholicism that they are now en masse returning to Rome, thinking Rome has changed. Nuh, all Rome has learned is how to use language to deceive.

That said, yes, of course we love the Catholics, and for that reason I will never cease to protest and testify of truth and call them out of that apostate system.

Thank you. I should think that is love indeed.

Philip James · Jun 8, 2018

ScottA said:
Perhaps we can lay down the lingo and come to an understanding. I should hope.

You bring up a good point here. Often disagreements arise because we dont use the same words or expressions in the same way, or understand something different than the thought being expressed.
This happens especially in written communication... And we must all take care that we arent arguing over misunderstandings...
For my part, if i use an expression that you are unfamiliar with please ask me to clarify and i will be glad to do so. I would hope you would extend the same courtesy to me.

Peace!

ScottA · Jun 8, 2018

Philip James said:
You bring up a good point here. Often disagreements arise because we dont use the same words or expressions in the same way, or understand something different than the thought being expressed.
This happens especially in written communication... And we must all take care that we arent arguing over misunderstandings...
For my part, if i use an expression that you are unfamiliar with please ask me to clarify and i will be glad to do so. I would hope you would extend the same courtesy to me.

Peace!

Indeed, too much Christianese or Catholicese just gets in the way. Personally, I am not big on 'isms, etc. anyway, and have trouble understanding when someone calls me something I have never heard of - how strange that names have been coined for people unaware of their meaning.

amadeus · Jun 8, 2018

ScottA said:
Indeed, too much Christianese or Catholicese just gets in the way. Personally, I am not big on 'isms, etc. anyway, and have trouble understanding when someone calls me something I have never heard of - how strange that names have been coined for people unaware of their meaning.

I have quite often had the same trouble. People will put a label on me and I have to look it up to even get a clue as to what they are talking about. Oh... well...!

ScottA · Jun 8, 2018

amadeus said:
I have quite often had the same trouble. People will put a label on me and I have to look it up to even get a clue as to what they are talking about. Oh... well...!

Thank God for Google!

aspen · Jun 8, 2018

Great thread

brakelite · Jun 9, 2018

Philip James said:
And we must all take care that we arent arguing over misunderstandings.

And take care we aren't being deceived by deliberate vagaries such as the "Declaration of Justification by Faith" that the Lutherans foolishly signed up to.

We LOVE the CATHOLICS!

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