Confusion

Philip James said:

So they weren't converted when he sent them out to preach the kingdom in power?

Luke 10

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When did the scripture say His disciples received the Holy Spirit before Jesus was crucified or after?

Enoch111 said:

While the disciples received the Holy Spirit after Christ's resurrection, the eleven apostles were already justified by grace through faith, and were somehow empowered to preach the Gospel and perform miracles even before receiving the Spirit.

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You can say whatever you want, but the fact is, they were not empowered by the Holy Spirit until after Jesus rose from the grave and gave them the Holy Spirit. Which means, they were not converted until they received the Holy Spirit. Before that, they were the same ones who abandoned Jesus for fear of their own lives, but after they received the Holy Spirit they were not afraid to preach in His name?

Matthew 26:31 (KJV)
31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.


John 7:37-39 (KJV)
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 4:8-13 (KJV)
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Enoch111 said:

It is not what I say but what Scripture says.

So you must now explain how this passage states that "he gave them POWER": And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and 't all manner of disease. (Mt 10:1)

This was long before the resurrection. So do you see how you have created your own trap, by failing to read what is the the Bible, and going by your own ideas?

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The word power in Mathew 10: 1 means authority. But the thing is, just because one have the authority to do something doesn't mean they will exercise that authority....doubt and fear can affect one's mind that will prevent the individual from exercising their authority.

But what Jesus commanded them to do doesn't mean they were converted. Being sanctified or justified doesn't mean the same thing as having the Holy Spirit. I showed you the scripture that they didn't have the Holy Spirit in them, because Jesus wasn't crucified yet.

Jesus commanded them to do a lot of things and they didn't always able to do them because of a lack of faith.

Matthew 17:19-21 (KJV)
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.


Now, look at the difference after they had received the Holy Spirit.


Acts 3:3-8 (KJV)
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

And yet, you see no difference before they received the Holy Spirit and afterwards. If you can't, I can't open your eyes to see what is as clear as day to me.

Nancy said:

...never mind.

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That's not the right attitude to have when confronted with the truth.

Truth said:

I just read Phillip J's response. and I also considered that He gave them Power to do the work of the Ministry, Then I realized !!! The Groom was still with them [us] on Earth, It wasn't Power! It Was Authority He gave them, Kinda like a Signet Ring from a Master, These are able to do My Business, as if you are dealing with Me [the Master], Again Thank You for serving up Food for Thought. Kosher Food!

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My pleasure. It would be nice if everybody had your attitude towards new understanding. Ultimately, it was Jesus' intention to make Himself obsolete, where we won't need Him to do for us what we are capable of doing for ourselves. Jesus' purpose was to let us know that we have it in us to do the same things He did. This is why Jesus said nothing is impossible for the one who has faith as small as a mustard seed. He took His disciples with Him to show them what is possible, then sent them out to do the same things He did. Which was why He was angry with His disciples, when they came back to Him and said they couldn't cast out the demon out of the boy.

"ByGrace" said:

Paul not teach the same message that Jesus taught. Jesus preached to the lost sheep of Israel, Jews. Acts .. Paul goes to the gentiles...Called by the Lord Himself, taught by the Lord Himself. Jesus did not say to Him, 'you must preach what I preached.' The Lord revealed to Paul what to preach.

We preach by the anointing , the Holy Spirit who is alive in our midst today.
They preach what the Lord gave them, many facets of God as a diamond...
God does not preach out of some legal box, He is a TODAY God.

I am sure until the end of time, other Christians will very often annoy us.
That's life , just because a person does not see and do everything "like me" ..does not mean they are wrong. There are many callings, many types of earth to sow into...some sow, some water, some reap. we are NOT all cookie cutter Christians.
I believe that you yourself will feel freer in your own spirit when you let go and allow God to work on your brothers and sisters. You will drive yourself mad if you are a 'one man band' in sorting out everyone else and telling them what they are believing wrong!!
Try seeing flowers today, and not so many weeds.

Bless you.

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Who Jesus preached to is irreverent the message stays the same.

Jesus commanded that the kingdom of God will be preached to all Nations.

Matthew 24:14 (ASV)
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

Same message Jesus preached and commanded His disciples to preach.

Luke 4:43 (KJV)
43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Luke 9:60 (KJV)
60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.


Same message Paul preached.

Acts 20:25 (ASV)
25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, shall see my face no more.

I hope this clears up any and all error on what message Jesus commanded to be preached, and that Paul also was obedient, and preached the same message Jesus preached.

"ByGrace" said:

They are not synonymous...

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It's not. If it was the scripture wouldn't have told us that Jesus gave them to Holy Spirit after He was resurrected.

"ByGrace" said:

Well I guess we will agree to differ. You are so very sure that you are right!

I'm out of this discussion, you are totally lopsided...your own way or no ones way.
Someone who is so sure in their attitude that they only have 'the truth.
I feel sorry for...I am a few decades older than you...I once sat where you sat....

So bless you anyway...you will learn...God is faithful to follow us until we see what our attitude is really like...it stinketh.

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You will one day see and remember what I was telling you.