Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

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epostle1

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Are you filled with the Holy Spirit BOL? Lord help us. :rolleyes:

Acts 9:17-18 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized,
A while back you were arguing with me that there was no laying on of hands.
Trouble and persecution is in the Greek text BOL, and Rom 8:35 is a OSAS scripture.
No, it isn't. Romans 8:35 is about not being separated from the love of Christ. It is not a guarantee one will never separate themselves from the love of Christ. In case you forgot, we all have a free will.

Romans 8:35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

You read into scripture what you want it to say.
 
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Heb 13:8

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A while back you were arguing with me that there was no laying on of hands.

No, what I said was laying on hands is not a condition to be saved 2000 years later. You can believe and confess where you stand. God accepts you right where you are, Rom 10:9.

No, it isn't. Romans 8:35 is about not being separated from the love of Christ. It is not a guarantee one will never separate themselves from the love of Christ. In case you forgot, we all have a free will.

Romans 8:35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

You read into scripture what you want it to say.

Right, and the 17 things listed in Rom 8:35, 38-39 are a result of our free will and living in a fallen world. ;)
 
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Taken

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It is not a guarantee one will never separate themselves from the love of Christ. In case you forgot, we all have a free will.

In case you forgot A man CHOOSING Christ IS a confession the man is MAKING TO the Lord.

If it is a true heartfelt confession, the Lord Converts the man.

If it is a false confession, the Lord does NOT Convert the man.

There IS NO OPTION, of the Lord Converting a man and then the man becomes "UNCONVERTED".

The Holy Spirit Does NOT dwell in an Unconverted man.

The Holy Spirit DOES dwell in a Converted man Forever.

It is simply a matter of trusting the Lords Word is True.

Rom 8:9
John 14:16, 17, 18, 19, 20

..will come to you, be with you, be in you, for ever.......

There is no caveat.....then leave you because you change your mind.

He knows a false confessor....who will proclaim belief and then later deflect.

He does not Convert them. They are NOT falling away from a Conversion. They are falling away from faith.
 

epostle1

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No, what I said was laying on hands is not a condition to be saved 2000 years later.
Laying of of hands has nothing to do with a condition of salvation, I never said it was.. You have been throwing verses at me desperately trying to prove OSAS for several weeks, and you haven't succeeded. That's because OSAS is a false doctrine and it's not in the Bible. The truth is much easier to defend than a man made tradition.
 

Heb 13:8

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Laying of of hands has nothing to do with a condition of salvation, I never said it was.. You have been throwing verses at me desperately trying to prove OSAS for several weeks, and you haven't succeeded. That's because OSAS is a false doctrine and it's not in the Bible. The truth is much easier to defend than a man made tradition.

Well, that's the thing. I'm not trying to prove anything, rather this is my testimony to the world. I already know OSAS is truth because of my faith in Jesus Christ. I use scripture because I believe the Gospel and what Jesus claimed.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

1 Jhn 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

God bless.
 
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APAK

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ONLY to people like YOU, who cherry-pick Scripture instead of taking it ALL in context.

God loves EVERYBODY (John 3:16). He wills the salvation of ALL people (1 Tim. 3:4) but that doesn't mean that ALL will be saved - if they refuse to cooperate with His grace. NOTHING can separate us from God's love - except for US.

OSAS is a false man-made doctrine based on perversion of Scripture due to cherry-picking it.

BreadOfLife, Hello again

You said: “God loves EVERYBODY (John 3:16). He wills the salvation of ALL people (1 Tim. 3:4) but that doesn't mean that ALL will be saved - if they refuse to cooperate with His grace. NOTHING can separate us from God's love - except for US.”

By the way, it is 1 Tim 2:4 and not 3:4...no worries. Also, God does not 'will' everyone to salvation else everyone would be automatically saved without our so-called free-will input. He wants or wishes that ALL believe....again no biggy.

I just wanted to address the topic of cooperation with the grace of God to salvation and its connection to salvation.

BOL, one must be saved before one can ‘cooperate with the grace of salvation or truth.’ This grace of salvation arrives in the form of a gift; God’s faith. This is given upon God’s approval, that makes us righteous to God in Christ (2 Corinth 5:21). It is a gift from God and not of our own doing (Ephesians 2: 8-9).

And one cannot be saved until one at least believes in the saving work on the cross (John 3:16). Romans chapters 3 through 8 covers all or most of the basics and understanding/ requirements to believe to salvation as a grace from God. Once saved, we walk in the new life as a new creature, as the full image or reflection of Christ’s spirit is living with us (2 Corinth 5:17-21).

Therefore, one must be of an age to understand and believe in John 3:16 and other scripture that addresses repentance of sins and belief in being baptized as Christ.

Salvation is given as a one event with the finale, the regenerative and rebirthing spirit of God taking residence in one’s heart. We are joined to Christ in one spirit with him (with one mind or purpose). (1 Corinth 6:17)

So, if one is not saved, trying to cooperate with a grace via a gift of God is meaningless; it cannot be understood and realized. It is alien to an unsaved or so-called professing Christian.

So, if one is saved, why cooperate with the grace of salvation of God? If we do not, do we lose salvation? Definitely no. This sanctification life-process is designed to build upon the initial saving faith that was given by God as the initial gift of gaining salvation

We cooperate because we do not have salvation in this life for nothing and for no purpose, just sitting idle within us, and waiting for our glorification.

We still have years to work in the service of God. We continue to grow with God through Christ’s living spirit within us. Our starting saving faith is the foundation and now we built upon it. We build high, and not by ourselves, and not just by God. We now work as a team as God will approve new fruit as new a ‘layer’ of faith. We cooperate because we want to grow stronger in faith in becoming more Christ and knowing more of God, our Father.

Beside wanting to know the faith that was given by God, that we now rely and live on, we also want to continue to resist temptation, to repent if convicted and to continue pursuing love and peace.

As a saved person, cooperation with God’s gift of salvation is not mandatory although we are led to participate, as the spirit inside moves us to this purpose, even though as times we place extra drag by our own ‘will,’ in the process, and thus slow down our growth in the goal of moving us to complete conversion and perfection.

Bless you,

APAK
 

BreadOfLife

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BreadOfLife, Hello again

You said: “God loves EVERYBODY (John 3:16). He wills the salvation of ALL people (1 Tim. 3:4) but that doesn't mean that ALL will be saved - if they refuse to cooperate with His grace. NOTHING can separate us from God's love - except for US.”

By the way, it is 1 Tim 2:4 and not 3:4...no worries. Also, God does not 'will' everyone to salvation else everyone would be automatically saved without our so-called free-will input. He wants or wishes that ALL believe....again no biggy.
Ummmmm, I never said that everybody will be saved. I said that it is His WILL that all be saved.
Big difference.
I just wanted to address the topic of cooperation with the grace of God to salvation and its connection to salvation.

BOL, one must be saved before one can ‘cooperate with the grace of salvation or truth.’ This grace of salvation arrives in the form of a gift; God’s faith. This is given upon God’s approval, that makes us righteous to God in Christ (2 Corinth 5:21). It is a gift from God and not of our own doing (Ephesians 2: 8-9).

And one cannot be saved until one at least believes in the saving work on the cross (John 3:16). Romans chapters 3 through 8 covers all or most of the basics and understanding/ requirements to believe to salvation as a grace from God. Once saved, we walk in the new life as a new creature, as the full image or reflection of Christ’s spirit is living with us (2 Corinth 5:17-21).

Therefore, one must be of an age to understand and believe in John 3:16 and other scripture that addresses repentance of sins and belief in being baptized as Christ.

Salvation is given as a one event with the finale, the regenerative and rebirthing spirit of God taking residence in one’s heart. We are joined to Christ in one spirit with him (with one mind or purpose). (1 Corinth 6:17)

So, if one is not saved, trying to cooperate with a grace via a gift of God is meaningless; it cannot be understood and realized. It is alien to an unsaved or so-called professing Christian.

So, if one is saved, why cooperate with the grace of salvation of God? If we do not, do we lose salvation? Definitely no. This sanctification life-process is designed to build upon the initial saving faith that was given by God as the initial gift of gaining salvation

We cooperate because we do not have salvation in this life for nothing and for no purpose, just sitting idle within us, and waiting for our glorification.

We still have years to work in the service of God. We continue to grow with God through Christ’s living spirit within us. Our starting saving faith is the foundation and now we built upon it. We build high, and not by ourselves, and not just by God. We now work as a team as God will approve new fruit as new a ‘layer’ of faith. We cooperate because we want to grow stronger in faith in becoming more Christ and knowing more of God, our Father.

Beside wanting to know the faith that was given by God, that we now rely and live on, we also want to continue to resist temptation, to repent if convicted and to continue pursuing love and peace.

As a saved person, cooperation with God’s gift of salvation is not mandatory although we are led to participate, as the spirit inside moves us to this purpose, even though as times we place extra drag by our own ‘will,’ in the process, and thus slow down our growth in the goal of moving us to complete conversion and perfection.

Bless you,

APAK
Salvation IS a process - and Scripture is clear about this (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8, 1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14, Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).

Initial salvation comes with the grace to believe. However - true faith is NOT just belief. because James 2:19 tells us that even the DEMONS can do that.
True faith = Belief + Obedience (works).

Secondly - Baptism is for ALL in the family - including small children and infants (Acts 2:39). Just as circumcision brought a male child into the Covenant with God based on the faith of his parents - the SAME is true for Baptism. This was practiced and preached by the Early Church as having been passed on by the Apostles themselves - who ALSO baptized entire households based on the faith of the Heads of those households (Acts 10:44-48, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16).

Salvation is a gift that needs to be nurtured and worked on because it can be LOST - just as faith can be lost.
 

BreadOfLife

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You being off on a tanget dragging it from thread to thread doesn't interest me.

You deciding men were Converted and then "UNCONVERTED" is false teaching and does not interest me.

You have shown scriptures of men having knowledge....so?
You decided they were Converted.
Then you say SEE, they fell away, so your claim is valid.

Problem is....that is not what Scripture says.

Scripture is clear. The Lord's indwelling Spirit teaches the mans CONVERTED born again new spirit.....not news.

Scripture is clear. The Lord's indwelling Spirit also has THEE Spiritual Understanding of HIS knowledge and HIS Word, which He gives to Converted born again men.....not news...

I do not disagree with Scripture or require some man made word to explain the Lords Word. He is my teacher.....not you and your favoring of mans understanding.

If a man HAS Christ "IN" him that man is converted forever.

You want to teach the Lords INWELLING power is subject to a mans power and whims.....that's you. Not me. Accept it.
And YOU pretending that apostasy doesn't exist is pathetic.
Apostasy is what happens to a born again believer - NOT a non-believer. It is the repudiation of a once-held position.

It's not a matter of being "unconverted". It's about becoming converted - and later rejecting that conversion.
Salvation is a CHOICE - not a sentence . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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Trouble and persecution is in the Greek text BOL, and Rom 8:35 is a OSAS scripture.
Romans 8:35 is about the love of God. It's NOT about salvation.
It has absolutely nothing to do with OSAS.
No, if they refuse to believe and confess, and I already agreed with you that universal-ism is false.
"Believing and confessing" is COOPERATION.
 

BreadOfLife

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I realize "cherry-pick" is intended to be one of your derogatory implications....however, once again it is a failed attempt.

Scripture uses a different term, a phrase actually, which means to separate in scripture what applies to you from what does not apply to you....

2 Tim 2:15
"Rightly dividing the word of truth".

All scripture is TRUTH, but not all scripture applies to ALL men.

The Truth is, A man Converted IN Christ, is a ONE time and FOREVER act of the Lord reconciling a man unto Him.

And...many scriptures that has ONCE applied to such a man, NO LONGER apply to that man.
And ...scriptures that apply TO a Converted man, now apply to such a man.

You willy nilly attempt to apply scriptures to a Converted man, that do not apply.....
And attempt to apply scriptures to an UN-converted man, that do not apply.

You think yourself in the right, because it is in Scripture. But it is your lack of understanding and application and dividing the word of truth...that is confounded....added with your arrogance verges on disgusting.
And you wrongly divide the truth.

Cherry-picking Scripture is ALWAYS wrong because ALL Scripture must be read in context - whether you divide it or not.
Nonsense. Gods Love belongs to God. You have not the power to make God stop loving His creations.

Men are born separated from God!
Once Gods reconciles a man unto Him;
NOTHING has the power to separate that man FROM the Lord.
WHO said that anybody has the power to "separate" people from the love of God. Certainly NOT me. Pay attention.
Only YOU have the power to walk away from God. NOBODY can do that for you.
It quite entertaining to watch a church member whose church has a long list of practices based on perversion of Scripture....almost seemingly jealous they never discovered ...
When the OLD MAN IS DEAD 'IN" Christ a new man is born....the OLD IS PASSED AWAY...and The NEW MAN IS FOREVER....

instead teach....

But, but, but, the MAN can UNDO what the Lord has AccomplishED in the mans Conversion....... Bizarre!
No - what IS bizarre is that YOU don't believe that a person can become apostate.
That is the most arrogant view of all . . .[/QUOTE]
 

Heb 13:8

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Romans 8:35 is about the love of God. It's NOT about salvation.
It has absolutely nothing to do with OSAS.

BOL, the love of God in Rom 8 is translated "agape" love. There are multiple types of biblical love in scripture, and only believers in Christ obtain agape love. These are the elect of God.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

"Believing and confessing" is COOPERATION.

No, believing and confessing is based upon faith. Where besides in your imagination, in the definition of faith, is the word cooperation?

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
 

Taken

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And YOU pretending that apostasy doesn't exist is pathetic.

Making up false accusations adds to your discredit.

Apostasy is what happens to a born again believer

False. Apostasy is what happened TO;
Judas.

Scripture clearly states....

1 John 2:23
WHOSOEVER denieth the Son, HATH NOT the Father.

You fail to comprehend....

Judas followed.
Judas believed.
Judas Stopped following.
Judas Stopped believing.

Judas DENIED the SON.
Judas NEVER HAD the Father.
Judas NEVER RECEIVED the Father.

Judas HAD the KNOWLEDGE that following the SON, LEADS to a Conversion, for one to HAVE the Father through Christ.

He Walked Away BEFORE receiving the Father.

You attempt to make every FOLLOWER Converted. <--- that is false.

Every Follower has HOPE of the PROMISE to RECEIVE the Father.

Many FOLLOWED Christ.
Few RECEIVED the Father.
Many WALKED AWAY, fell from Grace, fell from Faith, BECAUSE they STOPPED Following and Stopped Believing.

They NEVER HAD the Father.
They NEVER RECEIVED a Conversion.
1 John 2:19
They were Followers...
They were not Converted...
They DID NOT Receive the Promise...
Because THEY WALKED AWAY, Before receiving the Father.

Acts 2:39 says nothing about Baptizing INFANTS, as you purport.

Acts 2: 39 is about a PROMISE of hope for a conversion For those who Believe in the Son and THROUGH the Son receive the Father.

The PROMISE is for THEM and THEIR Children.

It is the Parents who were Directed to TEACH their Children OF THE PROMISE, and HOW TO receive the Father THROUGH the Son.

It is NOT a directive to MAKE the DECISION "FOR" the children....It is a directive to TEACH their children the Promise IS ALSO FOR THEM, who ALSO Choose to go THROUGH the SON "TO" receive the Father and HAVE the Father.

Your ability to Comprehend IS compromised,
Because from a little baby you were taught, Your parents and Priest, without your knowledge, or your learning, or your choosing; Decided FOR YOU, that THEY Could call on the Lord FOR YOU; THEY could proclaim YOU Believed IN the Son. THEY could proclaim YOU submitted to GO THROUGH THE SON and Receive Father....
Which IS the result of being Saved and Born Again.

You testified YOU were born again, without your knowledge. <--- that is false. Scripture teaches Becoming born again is a Decision of the man to willingly come to the Lord with his own Confession of belief and desire to become Converted/saved and born again.

You follow a corrupt doctrine, and WHY you argue against others WHO have come Through the Son to Have the Father ONCE and FOREVER, BY THEIR OWN CHOICE.

It's not a matter of being "unconverted". It's about becoming converted - and later rejecting that conversion.

Of course it is. Only the Converted HATH the Father IN THEM.

You teach people HAVE the Father IN THEM, ARE Converted, Because;
The were following and believing
And
Others Decided to Call on the Lord fOR THEM.

^ That is false.
Anyone can follow and believe.
Many followed Jesus and believed.
Judas followed and believed.
But he did not KEEP following.
Others did not KEEP following.
They walked AwAY, BEFORE SUBMITTING their Life TO the Lord, and receiving the Father THROUGH Christ.

You are without understanding.
 

Taken

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And you wrongly divide the truth.

Another of your MANY false accusations.

Cherry-picking
Scripture is ALWAYS wrong because ALL Scripture must be read in context - whether you divide it or not.

Of course contest is relevant. I never said otherwise despite your false accusation.

Dividing the Word of Truth IS precisely Knowing WHAT DOeS and DOES not Scripturally APPLY to an "INDIVIDUAL".

The "INDIVIDUAL" that "SHOULD" most concern YOU, IS YOU!!

Only YOU and the Lord knows your Heart.

1 Cor 2:11
1 Kings 8:39

Only YOU have the power to walk away from God. NOBODY can do that for you.

PAY ATTENTION;
Walk away from God?
You were naturally born AWAY FROM GOD!

The teaching is HOW TO COME TO GOD!

Hearing and Learning is a mans STEP, a mans PROCESS TOWARD COMING TO GOD. It is a beginning....NOT the ACCOMPLISHMENT.

The ACCOMPLISHEMENT of COMING TO GOD, IS The CONVERSION!

You ATTEMPT to make followers, believing followers, those who have received faith....
The CONVERTED.

The CONVERTED are individuals WHO have CHOSEN to given their Life TO THe Lord, ONCE and FOREVER. And His POWER keeps them FOREVER.

The Converted NEVER WALK AWAY.

No - what IS bizarre is that YOU don't believe that a person can become apostate.

That is a completely flat out FALSE Statement.

Nothing new YOU making FALSE claims for others, when they have said no such thing.

[QUOTEThat is the most arrogant view of all [/QUOTE]

The Arrogance IS YOU making up lies for others.

You simply do not comprehend the difference between Believing and following by the mans own power, who can at any time walk away....

AND....a Converted man, kept for ever by the Power of God...Who CHOSE to be Converted and Kept forever by the Power of God.

How could you comprehend....you were taught from a baby a corrupt doctrine that ..others made the choice FOR YOU....
 

BreadOfLife

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BOL, the love of God in Rom 8 is translated "agape" love. There are multiple types of biblical love in scripture, and only believers in Christ obtain agape love. These are the elect of God.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
And the point is that God NEVER stops loving us - even if WE stop loving HIM.
That is true love - but it doesn't meant that we cannot walk away from him.

NOWHERE does Scripture ever say that WE can't turn away from God.
In fact, as I have shown - it warns us over and over what will happen if we DO.
No, believing and confessing is based upon faith. Where besides in your imagination, in the definition of faith, is the word cooperation?

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
Those last 2 terms in the definition of "Faith" speak to our cooperation.

Being "faithful" is DOING what we're supposed to do. It's not a "feeling".
Just as a spouse is to work at being faithful - so must a follower of Christ work at being faithful.
 

BreadOfLife

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Another of your MANY false accusations.
Of course contest is relevant. I never said otherwise despite your false accusation.
Dividing the Word of Truth IS precisely Knowing WHAT DOeS and DOES not Scripturally APPLY to an "INDIVIDUAL".
The "INDIVIDUAL" that "SHOULD" most concern YOU, IS YOU!!
Only YOU and the Lord knows your Heart.

1 Cor 2:11
1 Kings 8:39

PAY ATTENTION;
Walk away from God?
You were naturally born AWAY FROM GOD!

The teaching is HOW TO COME TO GOD!

Hearing and Learning is a mans STEP, a mans PROCESS TOWARD COMING TO GOD. It is a beginning....NOT the ACCOMPLISHMENT.

The ACCOMPLISHEMENT of COMING TO GOD, IS The CONVERSION!

You ATTEMPT to make followers, believing followers, those who have received faith....
The CONVERTED.

The CONVERTED are individuals WHO have CHOSEN to given their Life TO THe Lord, ONCE and FOREVER. And His POWER keeps them FOREVER.

The Converted NEVER WALK AWAY.

That is a completely flat out FALSE Statement.

Nothing new YOU making FALSE claims for others, when they have said no such thing.

The Arrogance IS YOU making up lies for others.

You simply do not comprehend the difference between Believing and following by the mans own power, who can at any time walk away....

AND....a Converted man, kept for ever by the Power of God...Who CHOSE to be Converted and Kept forever by the Power of God.

How could you comprehend....you were taught from a baby a corrupt doctrine that ..others made the choice FOR YOU....
First you say that I'm making "false" statements by pointing out the fact that you deny that apostasy exists - THEN you make the asinine comment in RED. This ONE comment proves that you deny that apostasy exists.

ONLY a born again believer can go into apostasy of faith.
A non-believer cannot become apostate in his faith because he never had it.

Allow me to educate you again: Apostasy is the repudiation (rejection of) a once-held belief.
Unless you deny that apostasy exists - then you MUST agree that born again Christians can walk away from God.
 

BreadOfLife

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Making up false accusations adds to your discredit.
False. Apostasy is what happened TO;
Judas.

Scripture clearly states....

1 John 2:23
WHOSOEVER denieth the Son, HATH NOT the Father.

You fail to comprehend....

Judas followed.
Judas believed.
Judas Stopped following.
Judas Stopped believing.

Judas DENIED the SON.
Judas NEVER HAD the Father.
Judas NEVER RECEIVED the Father.

Judas HAD the KNOWLEDGE that following the SON, LEADS to a Conversion, for one to HAVE the Father through Christ.

He Walked Away BEFORE receiving the Father.

You attempt to make every FOLLOWER Converted. <--- that is false.

Every Follower has HOPE of the PROMISE to RECEIVE the Father.

Many FOLLOWED Christ.
Few RECEIVED the Father.
Many WALKED AWAY, fell from Grace, fell from Faith, BECAUSE they STOPPED Following and Stopped Believing.

They NEVER HAD the Father.
They NEVER RECEIVED a Conversion.
1 John 2:19
They were Followers...
They were not Converted...
They DID NOT Receive the Promise...
Because THEY WALKED AWAY, Before receiving the Father.

Acts 2:39 says nothing about Baptizing INFANTS, as you purport.

Acts 2: 39 is about a PROMISE of hope for a conversion For those who Believe in the Son and THROUGH the Son receive the Father.

The PROMISE is for THEM and THEIR Children.

It is the Parents who were Directed to TEACH their Children OF THE PROMISE, and HOW TO receive the Father THROUGH the Son.

It is NOT a directive to MAKE the DECISION "FOR" the children....It is a directive to TEACH their children the Promise IS ALSO FOR THEM, who ALSO Choose to go THROUGH the SON "TO" receive the Father and HAVE the Father.

Your ability to Comprehend IS compromised,
Because from a little baby you were taught, Your parents and Priest, without your knowledge, or your learning, or your choosing; Decided FOR YOU, that THEY Could call on the Lord FOR YOU; THEY could proclaim YOU Believed IN the Son. THEY could proclaim YOU submitted to GO THROUGH THE SON and Receive Father....
Which IS the result of being Saved and Born Again.

You testified YOU were born again, without your knowledge. <--- that is false. Scripture teaches Becoming born again is a Decision of the man to willingly come to the Lord with his own Confession of belief and desire to become Converted/saved and born again.

You follow a corrupt doctrine, and WHY you argue against others WHO have come Through the Son to Have the Father ONCE and FOREVER, BY THEIR OWN CHOICE.

Of course it is. Only the Converted HATH the Father IN THEM.

You teach people HAVE the Father IN THEM, ARE Converted, Because;
The were following and believing
And
Others Decided to Call on the Lord fOR THEM.

^ That is false.
Anyone can follow and believe.
Many followed Jesus and believed.
Judas followed and believed.
But he did not KEEP following.
Others did not KEEP following.
They walked AwAY, BEFORE SUBMITTING their Life TO the Lord, and receiving the Father THROUGH Christ.
You are without understanding.
And YOU can keep repeating that until the cows come home but you STILL have never been able to provide even ONE verse that substantiates your claim that we can "never" walk away from God. The use of the word "Epignosis" proves that we CAN walk away from God after being born again.

On the other hand - I have given you almost a DOZEN verses that say we CAN.
All of your long, angry rants don't mean a thing until you can refute the following . . .

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness or you will LOSE your salvation.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God take away somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is ridiculously clear - even to a blind person . . .

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Jan 14, 2014
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There is more than one meaning to DEATH, and there is more than one "THING" that DEATH kills.

Natural men are naturally born alive in their natural body, from a mans seed.....
THEY ARE physicall Alive, in their own BLOOD.
AND
THEY ARE Spiritually Dead, which IS BEING DEAD TO God, separated from God....ie NO relationship with God.

God provides a WAY for the mans physical blood life to continue, WHILE the Life of that man, becomes DEAD "WITH" AND ALIVE "IN" CHRIST.

IT IS NOT some long drawn out process for the Lord to Forgive, Kill, Wash, Sanctify, Restore, Quicken the man Wholly.

Again it is a process for a man, from first hearing about the Lord to deciding to Submit unto the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken
Yes, death can be either physical or spiritual. CONTEXT of Romans 6:16-23 shows it means spiritual death being contrasted from spiritual life. The context show Paul is contrasting salvation from condemnation/lost/spiritual death.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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Why you are stuck on Abraham, attempting to compare him Under the Old Covenant to those Under the New Covenant is beyond me.

But thanks for sharing Abraham "went" through a "process"..... not news. Abraham was a man. I already expressed MEN go through a process of learning about the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken
Abraham is an example used many times in the NT by both Paul and James.

From what you post above, are you admitting Abraham is NOT an example of justification by "faith only"?
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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First of all. I am different from you. I trust the Word of the Lord IS TRUE. Period.

You want to preach it is possible for a man to become UNCONVERTED, Unborn again, his OLD man again........Quote the scriptures that present that IS Possible.

Secondly, I am not going to go though your laundry list. Shorten your posts if you want a point by point response.
Thank you.

God Bless,
Taken
I showed book chapter and verses where a Christian can become unfaithful and fall way from Christ and be eternally lost.
This is why the Bible gives multiple commandments in warnings, heedings and admonishments to Christians about remaining faithful and the consequence if they do not. The Bible also gives multiple examples of those that fell away and become lost, Judas, Simon, some in Galatia that had fallen (past tense) from grace, etc, etc.
 

Taken

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And YOU can keep repeating that until the cows come home

Ditto.

but you STILL have never been able to provide even ONE verse that substantiates your claim that we can "never" walk away from God.

First of all I NEVER SAID "WE" can never Walk Away.

I SAID A CONVERTED man CAN NEVER WALK AWAY.

The use of the word "Epignosis" proves that we CAN walk away from God after being born again.

Your use of a man-made word, that YOU assign TO MEN you do not know, MEANS NOTHING, PROVES NOTHING.

On the other hand -

Yes I have noticed, already addressed the long list you keep repeating.

What you hold in YOUR HAND is of ZERO consequence.

He WHO has become Converted IS FOREVER in the Lords Hand. You have been told and shown the Scripture.

Your choice to reject the Truth, and make excuses, will be a consequence unto YOU, not me.

I have given you almost a DOZEN verses that say we CAN.

NOT ONE of your umpteen repeated verses speak of a Converted man LOSING his Conversion.

All of your long, angry rants don't mean a thing


Your thoughts, your words, most applicable to you. You own it.


IF I should become angry, I'll let you know, in the meantime, the truth is, I find you stiff-necked and a self imposed false teacher, who makes false claims for others.