Looking for advice: Can women be pastors

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Hidden In Him

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I see you're unable to answer me.

No, I'm unable to read you. There's a difference, LoL. This was again as far as I got. If you're bored and wanting me to read your posts, try another approach. I'd be happy to if you can back off of this confrontational spirit you're posting in right now. :)
 
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Ac28

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No, I'm unable to read you. There's a difference, LoL. This was again as far as I got. If you're bored and wanting me to read your posts, try another approach. I'd be happy to if you can back off of this confrontational spirit you're posting in right now. :)

I just want you to tell the truth - that you were 100% wrong. I want you to say that no woman should EVER be allowed to teach or preach God's Word, period, under any circumstances. That's what the Word says. Don't you agree with it?
 

oldhermit

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If women choose to be preachers, they will do so not because of what scripture says, but in spite of it.
 
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Jun2u

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'Helps Ministries' is the ministry of diakonos - deacons. Phoebe was a deaconess (Rom 16:1).

No, Phebe was NEVER a deaconess! She was a succourer (a help for those who require her services) verse 2.

Greek lexicon:
succourer = prostatis
1) a woman set over others.
2) a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources.

There is nothing in Eph 4:11 that limits the gift of pastor-teacher to men only. Not a word against women as pastor-teachers.

Verse 11 above may not limit the gift of pastor-teacher to men only, but God in 1 Cor 14 said that a woman is NOT permitted to speak in a church setting, and COMMANDED them to be under OBEDIENCE, as also saith the law.

Does this mean women can’t teach? No. Women can sure teach other women in Bible study as long as there are no men present. Women can teach children. Women can pray with other women and children. The ONLY time a woman can teach when men are present is when she is witnessing to unsaved people, as this is the calling of every believer to go into all the world and preach the Gospel.

To God Be The Glory
 

Jun2u

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No, I'm unable to read you. There's a difference, LoL. This was again as far as I got. If you're bored and wanting me to read your posts, try another approach. I'd be happy to if you can back off of this confrontational spirit you're posting in right now. :)

I say this kindly. You couldn't read or understand the Scripture references and comments made by Truth717 and Ac28 on this thread is because you are not spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

2 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”

To God Be The Glory
 
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oldhermit

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I have been reading a lot of responses to Phoebe as a deaconess an I think there may be some misunderstanding about the use of the word. We seem to have a problem attaching the word deaconess to women because of how this word is widely abused in the denominational world. We also prefer to see the word deacon only in connection with men who serve in a particular appointed function as deacons in the Church according to 1Timothy 3. Since scripture also uses this word to speak of certain women who rendered services of various types to others in the Church, we need not be afraid to use this term is the same way. Clearly older, experienced women were charged to instruct the younger women, to visit the sick, and provide whatever needs were required.

It is evident that such women were confined to limitations of service. This charge is much wider in scope than that given to the men who were appointed as deacons. This charge does not go out merely to a select number of appointed older women but to all. This was a general charge directed at a specific age and gender demographic. Such women were not appointed deacons as the men who were appointed to serve in this capacity within the Church. The qualifications laid down in 1Timothy 3 clearly separate the two and disqualify the women from serving in the same capacity as the men. They were never regarded as an order of ministers, nor were they permitted to preach or even speak in the assembly, nor were they permitted to exercise any form of authority over the men.

This same word is used in Luke 8:3 to describe the service performed by Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing (διηκόνουν) to their support out of their private means.” The same word is used of Onesiphorus in 1Timothy 2:16-18. “The Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains; but when he was in Rome, he eagerly searched for me and found me—the Lord grant to him to find mercy from the Lord on that day—and you know very well what services (διηκόνησεν) he rendered at Ephesus.” This in no way suggests that Onesiphorus served as a deacon in the Church at Ephesus. Paul merely states that he served his needs while he was in prison.

Phoebe was just such person to Paul and to many others as well. It is this quality that Paul emphasizes. The welfare of others was of some great importance to Phoebe. Evidently, the help she gave was of some non-trivial nature. This desire to serve was a personal commitment on her part. Whatever Phoebe had to offer to others was presented as a gift for the sake of the brotherhood and now, Paul requests that the Church in Rome extend to her the same grace she had extended to many others.
 
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APAK

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I'm looking for insight on this topic (not a debate) My family is Methodist and growing up I attended a Methodist church and women as pastors was accepted. Where I am living now, there is a huge church of Christ population (I live in a small town, not many church options) and after attending their church for the last few years this topic is still uncertain in my mind. Where I attend a female can't lead a prayer if there is a male present, nor teach a class if a male is in it. Any role that a woman "has authority" over a male they are not permitted to do.

I would appreciate any insight on these roles. I am not looking to debate the subject, I know it can be sensitive - just looking for some clarity. Thank you.
LC627:

First, if one wants to campaign for a female leader of a congregation based on culture needs, society and PC then I’m against it. We are dealing with spiritual truth and the shepherding of believers that the world cannot understand. Serious prayer is in order.

Beside scripture, biased toward men of stable mind, knowledge of truth and maturity, it does make exceptions for the same type women, although they usually have minor roles other than the leadership of a congregation.

I have found based on experience and by frequenting other congregations only that it takes a special female leader to run a congregation successfully. Far and few between...

There is a reason why God chose or preferred the male as the spiritual leader and ‘responsible’ to God for the family. Order of creation and forming each with slightly different natural abilities and spirits I would guess.

The reason must apply also to growing, nurturing and leading people to Christ and maturing them. The male is the designated leader by default.

Eph 5:22-24, 28; Col 3:18; 1 Peter 3:7, 5: 2-3; 1 Tim 2:12, 3:2, 12

(1Ti 2:12) I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in submission. (NEV)

(1Co 11:3) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ, the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. (NEV)

APAK
 

Hidden In Him

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Of course, you're absolutely dead wrong. I pray that no one believed you, because women should definitely be totally silent in the church. If I see a women preaching, I leave. A women preaching is heretical (as is the church that hired her), according to all the scripture that Truth7t7 rightfully quoted. According to this link, both wife and woman can used for that Greek word
gyne - Strong's number G1135 - Greek Lexicon | Bible Tools - Messie2vie

I have 32 different Bibles on e-Sword. In both 1Tim 2: vs11 and vs12, for example, 1 Bible says wife (3%), 1 says neither wife nor woman, and 30 (94%) say woman. The translator of the ABP Bible, the only one that said wife, was probably an unmarried woman and a preacher on the side. Sneaky.

That same Greek word is translated woman in these verses. Would you substitute "wife" for these?
Rev 12:1
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 17:4
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:9
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

You must have badly wanted the Bible to say that women could preach, to try and alter things like you did. I'm sure it wan't intentional.
I see you're unable to answer me. When 30 out of 31 Bibles use woman in both 1Tim 2:11-12, that's good enough for me, a the only stanger is one I've never heard of, The Apostolic Bible Polyglot . So, you are absolutely wrong, aren't you? Where did you come up with that nonsense? Is your girlfriend a preacher?
Surely no one cares about or needs any of this gobbledy-gook. Scripture must interpret itself and the KJV + Strong's is suitable under most any situation.

What's really sad is that you would bring a "Catholic Expert" into this discussion. That term is definitely an oxymoron, even more moronic than Scientific Creationism or Christian Scientist.

Ac28, after a very careful analysis of your posts, I've decided on the proper response:

Marijuana is legal in many states. How about if you go score a few buds and please smoke one. You need to mellow out, LoL.

[Picture deleted out of courtesy]
 
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OzSpen

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I just want you to tell the truth - that you were 100% wrong. I want you to say that no woman should EVER be allowed to teach or preach God's Word, period, under any circumstances. That's what the Word says. Don't you agree with it?

That's NOT what the Bible teaches and I'm being 100% truthful.

See the article, Phoebe: Was she an early church leader?

In this article, the researcher stated:

Romans 16:2 provides us with one more important piece of information about Phoebe that often tends to disappear in translation. There Paul calls Phoebe prostatis, literally, “the one who stands before.” The New International Version renders the text this way: “for she has been the benefactor [prostatis] to many people, including me.” Other versions translate the word variably as “patron” (ESV), “succourer” (KJV), “helper” (ASV; NASB), “she has been helpful to many” (NLT), or even “good friend” (TEV). There are, however, some translations that render prostatis as “leader” (YLT), “respected leader” (CEV), or “defender of many” (Emphasized Bible of J. B. Rotherdam, 1872).​

It is alarming to me, as a translator of NT Greek, that so many translations follow the traditions of the church culture of male leaders and relegate women to being 'helpers' but not 'leaders' of a local church.

Thankfully, his research found reason for Phoebe to be translated as 'leader' - a meaning of prostatis, literally, “the one who stands before.”

So many gifted female teachers have been shut down in pastor-teacher ministry in local churches, only for them to go to the mission field where their gifts are readily accepted and needed. Sounds like a sniff of hypocrisy to me.

This excellent research and exposition counters a lot of your traditionalist interpretations of Scripture relating to women in ministry.

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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No, Phebe was NEVER a deaconess! She was a succourer (a help for those who require her services) verse 2.

Greek lexicon:
succourer = prostatis
1) a woman set over others.
2) a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources.

Jun2u,

I don't know which Greek lexicon you quoted but it does not agree with the bible of Greek lexicons, Arndt & Gingrich (1957:184), which translates diakonos in Rom 16:1 as 'deaconess'.

The word, prostatis, is from the verb proistemi, used 8 times in the NT. The most extensive word study of this verb about which I know is that in Kittel & Friedrich by Reicke (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, vol 6, pp 700-703).

Of these 8 times, the context determines the final meaning, but 'in most cases proistemi seems to have the sense
(a) to lead
(b) to care for
(c) to devote oneself to; to execute

In most cases proistemi seems to have sense (a) 'to lead' ... but the context shows in each case that one must also take into account sense (b) to care for... This is explained by the fact that caring was the obligation of leading members of the infant Church Thus Paul says in Rom 12:8: εἴτε ὁ παρακαλῶν ἐν τῇ παρακλήσει, ὁ μεταδιδοὺς ἐν ἁπλότητι, ὁ προϊστάμενος ἐν σπουδῇ, ὁ ἐλεῶν ἐν ἱλαρότητι ['the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads (from proistemi), with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness' (ESV)]....

The ideas of guiding and caring are both present (in 1 Tim). See 1 Tim
3:4....

The verb has in the NT the primary sense of both 'to lead' and 'to care for', and this agrees with the distinctive nature of the office in the NT, since according to Lk. 22:26 the one who is chief ... is to be the one who serves (ibid, 6:709).​

An examination of the etymology of these words does not support the view that Phoebe, a deaconess, was not a leader in the church at Cenchreae.

Oz
 

OzSpen

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Surely no one cares about or needs any of this gobbledy-gook. Scripture must interpret itself and the KJV + Strong's is suitable under most any situation.

What's really sad is that you would bring a "Catholic Expert" into this discussion. That term is definitely an oxymoron, even more moronic than Scientific Creationism or Christian Scientist.

Dale Carnegie wrote an exceptional motivational book many years ago, How to Win Friends and Influence People.

You have not done that in,
  • Trying to dumb down and rubbish Christian scholarship. If it were not for scholarship, including translation of your beloved KJB, we wouldn't have translations from the original languages.
  • KJV + Strongs will not get you to the etymology of diakonos and prostatis.
Please enjoy your continuing non-scholarly ride.

upload_2018-6-17_22-25-4.jpeg

Oz
 

Ac28

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It's a travesty if anyone buys into the very iffy Rom 16:1, which can be translated as "servant" and allow it to take precedence over the very plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face passages, 1Tim 3:1-13, 1Tim2:11-14, 1Cor 14:33-35, and Titus2:3-5, as posted by Truth 7t7.
 
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OzSpen

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Surely no one cares about or needs any of this gobbledy-gook. Scripture must interpret itself and the KJV + Strong's is suitable under most any situation.

Jun,

What you called gobbledy-gook is biblical scholarship. Do you realise that to produce both the KJV and Strong's Concordance took the use of scholarship. You have promoted a self-defeating argument - use no scholarship on this forum but you need it (whether you realised or not) to produce 2 majestic volumes - the KJV and Strong's.

I recommend that you quit degrading the very scholarship that is needed to create your 2 favourite books.

Do you get it?

upload_2018-6-17_23-44-24.png

Oz
 

OzSpen

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It's a travesty if anyone buys into the very iffy Rom 16:1, which can be translated as "servant" and allow it to take precedence over the very plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face passages, 1Tim 3:1-13, 1Tim2:11-14, 1Cor 14:33-35, and Titus2:3-5, as posted by Truth 7t7.

In those 'plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face passages', it appears 'plain' to those with a traditionalist view.

Take 1 Cor 14:33-35 as an example, 'Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says' (v. 34).

BUT ... BUT ...
1 Cor 11:5 states, 'But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved'. So women can prophesy?

Where was prophesy taking place? 'the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort' (1 Cor 14:3 NIV). Paul wrote to the Corinthian church, so the prophetic word was spoken by men and women in the church gathering.

How do we know? First Cor 14:18-19 (NIV) tells us so: ' I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue'.

Prophesy is speaking intelligible words in the congregation and it is a 'revelation' given to both men and women.

It's too late to try to convince me that the silence of women in 1 Cor 14:33-35 means the total silence of all women in ministry to men. 1 Cor 14:33-35 was addressing a Corinthian situation where disorder in the church was caused by unruly women. Paul told them to shut up and ask their husbands at home.

It was never meant to silence all women in public ministry for all of Christian history.

What you consider is the 'the very plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face' meaning of these passages, has a very different meaning when the exegesis is pursued through this biblical study ...

Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15 NLT).​

I want to be seen by God as one who correctly explains the word of truth, rather that one who is known as promoting that which is very plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face.

This is God's warning to all Bible teachers: 'Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly' (James 3:1 NLT).

Oz
 

Ac28

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QzSpen,

In my opinion, EW Bullinger was the greatest "Bible Scholar" ever. His 1000 page, "Figures of Speech in the Bible" and his "Critical Lexicon and Concordance of the NT", are without equal. What sets him apart from the "Scholars" you quote and you, yourself, it seems, is that Bullinger passionately believed the Bible, and had no ulterior agenda - what it says is what it is. In his definition of the word translated "servant" in Rom 16:1, he doesn't even mention deaconess or preacher or teacher, probably because he knew that those positions were impossible for a woman, based on many in-your-face passages. So, he defines it as the Bible dictates it MUST be defined, as "servant", comparing scripture with scripture. Also, I might mention that the ESV, NASB, and the NIV, all have it as "servant."

You, the "Bible Scholar", have been proven wrong on 2 counts, on serious topics, and we've barely dented the surface. This present one about women preachers (God forbid!!), and the one you also have never fessed up to, the absurdity that there is consciousness between the grave and resurrection, based on your failure to realize that the common Jewish figure of speech, "gathered unto his people", meant "he died" and was surely not to be taken literally, as you assumed. Much of your "scholarly" work seems to be based on assumptions and, as most everyone knows, assumptions are Bible Truth's greatest enemy.

I consider Dale Carnegie one of the leading Satanic, secular authors of his time.

Maybe my approach is too abrupt. With passion, my only message is the same one Paul thought most important, in
Eph 3:9
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship (dispensation) of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places (the heaven of heavens) might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

This mystery is basically that we Gentiles, for the first time in Bible history, have our own blessings, without being tied to Israel. In practice, it contains every word in Paul's after-Acts books, because every word in those hid in God through every past age and generation, from Gen 1 thru Acts 28, until revealed by Paul, starting with Ephesians. Those 7 books are an island, almost totally isolated from the other 59 books. Nothing in those 7 books can be applied to anything in the other 59 books, including right division.

The blessings in those 7 books are every possible blessing that is Spiritual in Heavenly Places, Eph 1:3. We are the only people in the Bible that will ever go to Heaven, but only if we eliminate, from our doctrine, all things given to Israel, that we mistakenly think belong to us, and embrace the only doctrine for us Gentiles today, found only in Paul's 7 books written after Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. Obeying 2Tim 2:15 and cutting the scripture to remove those Jewish things, is the most important step you can possibly take, besides your salvation, if you really want to go to heaven. God is not going to enlighten the eyes of your understanding to see the hope of your true calling unless you eliminate the fake callings of Israel from your mind. If you don't, God knows that, since those things given to only Israel are so drastically different than the things given only to Israel, that many contradiction and utter confusion will exist. For this reason, God approves of those you correctly cut (rightly divide) His word of Truth - see 2Tim 2:15.

I'm not the ogre you think I am. What I'm teaching is not something I've made up and I'm not trying to be King on the hill, the standard goal on every Bible forum I've ever been on. There are many 100s of books (all free) written on the subject and at least 10,000 free sermons on audio. I passionately am trying to help you all join me in Heaven, but I believe that won't happen until you get rid of all that UN-aplicablel Jewish baggage that God won't tolerate for you to carry around, if you want the infinite blessings of Heaven, found only in Paul's after-Acts epistles. If you can find scripture that says any group, besides the unique church found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, will go to Heaven, I'll cook and eat a crow.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing (our Gentile rapture, but far, far better) of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Col 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Ps 8:1
O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
 
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Ac28

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In those 'plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face passages', it appears 'plain' to those with a traditionalist view.

Take 1 Cor 14:33-35 as an example, 'Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says' (v. 34).

BUT ... BUT ...
1 Cor 11:5 states, 'But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved'. So women can prophesy?

Where was prophesy taking place? 'the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort' (1 Cor 14:3 NIV). Paul wrote to the Corinthian church, so the prophetic word was spoken by men and women in the church gathering.

How do we know? First Cor 14:18-19 (NIV) tells us so: ' I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue'.

Prophesy is speaking intelligible words in the congregation and it is a 'revelation' given to both men and women.

It's too late to try to convince me that the silence of women in 1 Cor 14:33-35 means the total silence of all women in ministry to men. 1 Cor 14:33-35 was addressing a Corinthian situation where disorder in the church was caused by unruly women. Paul told them to shut up and ask their husbands at home.

It was never meant to silence all women in public ministry for all of Christian history.

What you consider is the 'the very plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face' meaning of these passages, has a very different meaning when the exegesis is pursued through this biblical study ...

Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15 NLT).​

I want to be seen by God as one who correctly explains the word of truth, rather that one who is known as promoting that which is very plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face.

This is God's warning to all Bible teachers: 'Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly' (James 3:1 NLT).

Oz
Women in Acts, with the gifts of the Spirit, could prophesy. However, those gifts were done away with in Acts 28:28. They surely don't exist today, except in a fake, non-Biblical fashion. No one, with no exception, can prophesy today, no matter what anyone says. The gifts are long gone. We are the only people to have the complete Bible, which God has preserved. That's the only communication we'll get from God while alive and the only communication we'll ever need, during our life on earth.

That is the absolute worst rendition of 2Tim 2:15 I've ever seen. The meaning of "rightly divide" is, "make a straight cut", "correctly cut", or "correctly dissect". That's it, period. A translation that does not "CUT" God's Word of Truth is totally meaningless. Many of these modern Bibles seem to hate the idea of CUTTING God's Word, so they use those fake wimpy, milky, meaningless phrases instead. The only real meaning is to CUT CORRECTLY, not to "correctly explain" or "handle aright" or "rightly handling", or any other fake meaning. Like the Catholics, you're very good at fitting obscure definitions to meet your own private interpretations (2Pe 1:20).

That's the 4th thing you've been proven wrong on. Since it's obvious you don't obey 2Tim 2:15 and Correctly CUT God's word, that is the biggest 5th error you could possibly make. Without right division, it is impossible that any more than about 50% of your NT knowledge is correct. That puts you in the same class as every mainstream, know-nothing denominational preacher. With right division, you could double your NT knowledge overnight, simply by repenting and believing the Bible. You really should contact David Tavender and his group in NSW at Spiritual Blessings They are expert right dividers and could help you truly understand the Bible.
 
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Ac28

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Jun,

What you called gobbledy-gook is biblical scholarship. Do you realise that to produce both the KJV and Strong's Concordance took the use of scholarship. You have promoted a self-defeating argument - use no scholarship on this forum but you need it (whether you realised or not) to produce 2 majestic volumes - the KJV and Strong's.

I recommend that you quit degrading the very scholarship that is needed to create your 2 favourite books.

Do you get it?

View attachment 2778

Oz
From what you've displayed on this forum, with all your proven errors, your "Biblical Scholarship" seems to have missed the mark of the most important thing - Truth!
 

Jun2u

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I have been reading a lot of responses to Phoebe as a deaconess an I think there may be some misunderstanding about the use of the word. We seem to have a problem attaching the word deaconess to women because of how this word is widely abused in the denominational world. We also prefer to see the word deacon only in connection with men who serve in a particular appointed function as deacons in the Church according to 1Timothy 3. Since scripture also uses this word to speak of certain women who rendered services of various types to others in the Church, we need not be afraid to use this term is the same way. Clearly older, experienced women were charged to instruct the younger women, to visit the sick, and provide whatever needs were required.

It is evident that such women were confined to limitations of service. This charge is much wider in scope than that given to the men who were appointed as deacons. This charge does not go out merely to a select number of appointed older women but to all. This was a general charge directed at a specific age and gender demographic. Such women were not appointed deacons as the men who were appointed to serve in this capacity within the Church. The qualifications laid down in 1Timothy 3 clearly separate the two and disqualify the women from serving in the same capacity as the men. They were never regarded as an order of ministers, nor were they permitted to preach or even speak in the assembly, nor were they permitted to exercise any form of authority over the men.

This same word is used in Luke 8:3 to describe the service performed by Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing (διηκόνουν) to their support out of their private means.” The same word is used of Onesiphorus in 1Timothy 2:16-18. “The Lord grant mercy to the house of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains; but when he was in Rome, he eagerly searched for me and found me—the Lord grant to him to find mercy from the Lord on that day—and you know very well what services (διηκόνησεν) he rendered at Ephesus.” This in no way suggests that Onesiphorus served as a deacon in the Church at Ephesus. Paul merely states that he served his needs while he was in prison.

Phoebe was just such person to Paul and to many others as well. It is this quality that Paul emphasizes. The welfare of others was of some great importance to Phoebe. Evidently, the help she gave was of some non-trivial nature. This desire to serve was a personal commitment on her part. Whatever Phoebe had to offer to others was presented as a gift for the sake of the brotherhood and now, Paul requests that the Church in Rome extend to her the same grace she had extended to many others.

Thanks for explaining it better than I could about the service of Phebe in post #224.

To God Be The Glory
 
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Jun2u

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An examination of the etymology of these words does not support the view that Phoebe, a deaconess, was not a leader in the church at Cenchreae.

The only time I go to a concordance ( only have one – Strong’s) is to find the meaning of a word. Concordances are a help but it is NOT as authoritative as the Bible. However, in this instance, I didn’t really need to consult a concordance because I know what Scripture declares.

For example, the Bible declares that:

1) All the Prophets were men.
2) All the Kings were men.
3) All the Judges were men, except for Deborah.
4) All the Apostles were men.
5) All Pastors and Deacons are men.

As for Deborah, the exception is NOT the rule.

Why all men? Because God has a “chain of command” in His economy! (see 1 Corinthians 11:3).

I wish you would do your homework more diligently especially when claiming to be a teacher of the Word.

To God Be The Glory
 
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