Looking for advice: Can women be pastors

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OzSpen

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You are the last person I would ever choose as a mentor in any way, whatsoever. I have zero trust in anything you say, after the GIANT errors you displaed (sic) and got caught on. Your non-Biblical ideas about death are nonsensical, from any sane viewpoint.

This is my last post to you. Too boring and I can't take any more gobbledy-gook.

You Don't Obey 2Tim 2:15 and Rightly Divide God's Word if You Believe Any of These Things

Ac,

What is goading/flaming on a forum?

Goad:

'If you goad someone, you deliberately make them feel angry or irritated, often causing them to react by doing something' (Collins Dictionary 2018. s.v. goad).

You have done that by your statements against me and my beliefs:
  • 'You are the last person I would ever choose as a mentor in any way, whatsoever';
  • 'I have zero trust in anything you say';
  • 'the GIANT errors you displaed (sic) and got caught on';
  • 'Your non-Biblical ideas about death are nonsensical, from any sane viewpoint';
  • Then you give a string of doctrines I MUST NOT believe 'to rightly divide God's word'. They are your opinions that are goading me.
You goad me just about every post but don't want to acknowledge it.

What about your flaming me?

Flame
'A flame is an email [or forum] message which severely criticizes or attacks someone' (Collins Dictionary 2018. s.v. flame).

You have done this to me throughout this thread with language like the 'goading' above, AND ...
  • 'That's the 4th thing you've been proven wron (sic). That puts you in the same class as every mainstream, know-nothing denominational preacher'.
  • 'Since it's obvious you don't obey 2 Tim 2:15 and Correctly CUT God's word';
  • 'that is the biggest 5th error you could possibly make. Without right division, it is impossible that any more than about 50% of your NT knowledge is correct';
  • 'With right division, you could double your NT knowledge overnight';
  • 'simply by repenting and believing the Bible';
  • 'I just want you to tell the truth';
  • 'that you were 100% wrong';
  • 'I want you to say that no woman should EVER be allowed to teach or preach God's Word, period, under any circumstances. That's what the Word says. Don't you agree with it?'
That should be enough examples to show how you goad and flame me on this forum.
images


Oz
 
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OzSpen

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So, you disagree with him on scriptures and other issues. And you call it flaming.
So, you feel the need to get him kicked out of the forum.

Triumph,

You have misrepresented me. I have never said that disagreeing about Scripture is flaming. Never! That's a false charge. See #262 where I've tried to clarify the meaning of goad and flame when used on this forum.

(Earlier you said you were not going to post on this issue anymore.)

I will not tolerate people who lie about my theology and me on this forum.

So much for that! It takes a full blown Theologian to mess up the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Those who graduate from universities or training colleges to become pastors are not 'full blown theologians'. They are pastor-teachers or teachers.

The 'theologians' who teach them who are the problem are those who are infected with a higher criticism, postmodern, anti-biblical authority 'disease'. They will deny Scripture, miracles, the gifts of the Spirit, etc.

I know that infection has infiltrated the Dutch Reformed training institutions. My doctorate is from an accredited university that trains Dutch Reformed pastors and I had to be very sensitive to those who were opposed to the Gospel when writing my dissertation.

So, just because there might be 2 bad tomatoes in the bag should not stop you and me from eating tomatoes.

HOWEVER, there are many fine evangelical theologians around the world who trust Scripture, proclaim the Gospel and are active promoters of the integrity of the Bible. I'm thinking of Alister McGrath, Wayne Grudem, Bruce Demarest, Norman Geisler, R C Sproul, etc.

Listen, OzSpen, I don't care how educated you are.
I'm from the Netherlands, where people in the Dutch Reformed Church need to finish a University Course Theology in order to be called as a pastor/preacher.
So, they come out of University and mock the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and they allow homosexuals to be pastors.

Do you care how educated the translators were who translated your Bible from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek? Did they need any specialist training in those languages?

I agree that it doesn't take a theological degree to make one a better pastor-teacher, but it sure helps with understanding the original languages.

Your view tries to discourage the marrying of education and spiritual ministry. Dr Gordon Fee is an accredited AoG minister in the USA, yet has written one of the finest exegetical commentaries on 1 Corinthians that I've read. One does not have to separate educated pastors from pastors who accept the gifts of the Spirit.

The denomination with which I'm ordained accepts the full range of the gifts of the Spirit - as I do. Please don't put me in your 'not possible' basket.

I have been attending a home church at a remote ranch where the pastor is an elementary school educated rancher filled with the Holy Spirit.
I see miracles happening and people coming to Christ.

That shouldn't interfere with somebody who knows the original languages and is active in the gifts of the Spirit.

So, spare me your "educational" lectures.
It's the Holy Spirit revealing things to the Christian and without the Baptism with the Holy Spirit it simple is not going to work.
Jesus commanded people to wait for the Power from upon high. Not the power from university with all the other junk attached to it.

That's your Pentecostal-charismatic theology speaking. I was in that movement for many years.

My aim in some of my posts is not to provide 'educational lectures' but exegesis from the original NT language to get to a better understanding of the text.

As for,
It's the Holy Spirit revealing things to the Christian and without the Baptism with the Holy Spirit it simple is not going to work

I've been in some Pentecostal meetings (I taught for 5 years at a Pentecostal Bible College) and heard some crazy things allegedly revealed by the Holy Spirit. By the way, that's relying on experientialism to determine God's revelation.

You are goading me with this kind of language:

Jesus commanded people to wait for the Power from upon high. Not the power from university with all the other junk attached to it.

Oz
 
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Hidden In Him

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I will not tolerate people who lie about my theology and me on this forum.

I agree with you, Oz. It's why I have to keep coming back to threads like this myself, LoL. I get lied on, and if I let it rest then people may get the impression that the things being said must be what I truly believe because I don't log back in to correct it. It's like a vicious cycle, LoL. :)

Well, let's put it this way.
If he's kicked off I can certainly think about 2 more that should be kicked of this forum.

Keep in mind, Triumph, I don't personally think he should be banned, just disciplined.
 
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Hidden In Him

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The 'theologians' who teach them who are the problem are those who are infected with a higher criticism, postmodern, anti-biblical authority 'disease'. They will deny Scripture, miracles, the gifts of the Spirit, etc.

Absolutely. I have the utmost respect for good scholarship. It's only bad scholarship I have problems with, and among the same crowds you list here. But Paul was no dummy. He was an educated and intelligent man. No small wonder he was set for the defense of the gospel more than any other, and a little tough for some to follow sometimes, as Peter stated. But such is the case with those born with higher mental capacities.

Does it make them "superior" in any way to other believers? Of course not, and as Triumph was saying rightly, the Lord can use even the most uneducated to do extremely great works for God, more powerful than any theologian can muster. But does this mean those blessed with mental ability have no place in the body of Christ? No. They have important roles to play as well.
 

OzSpen

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Well, let's put it this way.
If he's kicked off I can certainly think about 2 more that should be kicked of this forum.

Who are the other 2 and why should they be dismissed from CyB?

What goading and flaming of people and their beliefs have they done?

See #262 for definitions of 'goad' and 'flame' as applied to posters.
 
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OzSpen

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Absolutely. I have the utmost respect for good scholarship. It's only bad scholarship I have problems with, and among the same crowds you list here. But Paul was no dummy. He was an educated and intelligent man. No small wonder he was set for the defense of the gospel more than any other, and a little tough for some to follow sometimes, as Peter stated. But such is the case with those born with higher mental capacities.

Does it make them "superior" in any way to other believers? Of course not, and as Triumph was saying rightly, the Lord can use even the most uneducated to do extremely great works for God, more powerful than any theologian can muster. But does this mean those blessed with mental ability have no place in the body of Christ? No. They have important roles to play as well.

Well said, HiH.

I have been and am on a few forums on the internet. All forums have a few posters who don't see the compatibility of exegetical education, especially in the original languages, and being an everyday 'spiritual' Christian. Christian academics and spiritual life for some cannot belong together.

But, as you've explained, the educated are not 'superior'. They need to thank God for the gifts He has given them and promote the spiritual gifts of all others.

I'm sure glad the Lord hasn't gifted me with being a mechanic , welder or accountant. I also would battle using a lawnmower at my age and with my physical incapacities.

I love this verse from Paul to the pastor-teacher, Timothy: 'But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry' (2 Tim 4:5 NIV).

Timothy's primary gifting was pastoral, but Paul said that he needed to 'do the work of an evangelist'. I know my primary gift is not evangelism, but I, like Timothy, need to 'do the work of an evangelist' in this secular Aussie culture.

Blessings,
Oz
 
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Hidden In Him

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I'm sure glad the Lord hasn't gifted me with being a mechanic , welder or accountant. I also would battle using a lawnmower at my age and with my physical incapacities.

Ha Ha! Got a good laugh out of that one! I have no incapacities. I just don't like to mow the lawn, LoL.
Timothy's primary gifting was pastoral, but Paul said that he needed to 'do the work of an evangelist'.

Yes, and isn't that interesting. It actually suggests he may have had more than one office, but there's room for interpretation there.
I know my primary gift is not evangelism, but I, like Timothy, need to 'do the work of an evangelist' in this secular Aussie culture.

Yes, sir. It's not mine either, but then I believe greater increase in the anointing of God upon our lives ends up necessitating it eventually. You tend to "branch out" if you will into increasingly greater, more far-reaching roles.

God bless you, brother. I find you a great blessing, and I strongly doubt it's just here at this community.
 
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OzSpen

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Ha Ha! Got a good laugh out of that one! I have no incapacities. I just don't like to mow the lawn, LoL.

Yes, and isn't that interesting. It actually suggests he may have had more than one office, but there's room for interpretation there.

Yes, sir. It's not mine either, but then I believe greater increase in the anointing of God upon our lives ends up necessitating it eventually. You tend to "branch out" if you will into increasingly greater, more far-reaching roles.

God bless you, brother. I find you a great blessing, and I strongly doubt it's just here at this community.

HiH,

The wake-up call for an expansion of my teaching gift came in 1984 in a USA university's doctoral programme. In one class I questioned something in the text and the professor said, in front of 20 class members, 'Your views are b__ s__' and he didn't abbreviate.

I was dumb-founded that a professor would be so crass towards me and in front of the whole class. I should have reported him to the Dean, but I didn't. The next day he apologised to me privately but never in front of the class.

It was a wake-up call for my lack of training in apologetics. My churches had not equipped me for this uni encounter. Since then, I've had to equip myself.

God has enabled me to be engaged in some strenuous apologetic activity, incl a public debate with an ACT (Canberra) politician who was promoting euthanasia, and back and forth with atheists, etc.

Oz
 

Truth7t7

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Actually, Triumph, I agree with Oz on this one. It is more than simply disagreeing with others. Ac28 flames and goads people on this forum incessantly. Is it my approach to report him, no, but I support the position of those who do, especially for Ac28's sake. If he's not long from meeting his Maker as he says, someone should be warning him that his judgment will not be a pleasant one if he continues engaging in incessant sin like he does. At the very best, his works are going to burn in the fire.

This post will set him off if he reads it, but nevertheless it needs to be said. If no one else supports Oz on his contention that Ac28 should be disciplined in some way, shape or form for his behavior, I do. But I personally don't regard such discipline as being restricted to merely whatever the moderators do.

Do I wish any ill-will on Ac28? No, none whatsoever. And this is precisely why I think something needs to be done.

Blessings,
Hidden In Him
No harm, let him b whatever, like water on a ducks back
 

Truth7t7

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You are the last person I would ever choose as a mentor in any way, whatsoever. I have zero trust in anything you say, after the GIANT errors you displaed and got caught on. Your non-Biblical ideas about death are nonsensical, from any sane viewpoint.

This is my last post to you. Too boring and I can't take any more gobbledy-gook.


You Don't Obey 2Tim 2:15 and Rightly Divide God's Word if You Believe Any of These Things

1- The Church has replaced Israel
2- The entire Bible is written directly TO us.
3- The Gospel taught by Jesus Christ takes precedent over everything else
4- The Great Commission is the marching order for the Church today
5- To be saved, we must be born again
6- The present day Church started with Christ's earthly ministry
7- The present day Church started at Pentecost, in Acts 2
8- True Israel is the Church
9- Christ's earthly ministry was to both Jews and Gentiles
10- Israel are still God's chosen people, during this 2000 year period we're now in.
11- The Kingdom of Heaven is the hope of the Church.
12- The New Covenant is in effect for the Gentile Church today
13- The Sermon on the Mount applies to us today.
14- The Lord's Prayer applies to us today.
15- The Lord's Supper applies to us today
16- Water Baptism applies to us today.
17- The Gifts of the Spirit, as given in Acts 2, are still applicable today
18- The 12 apostles witnessed daily to both Jews and Gentiles
19- The purpose of the Acts period was to build the Church
20- Today's Gentile Church will be taken up in the rapture.
21- Christ came to build a Church
22- We must obey the 10 Commandments
23- Abraham is the father of us all
24- The church today will reside in the New Jerusalem
25- The Church today is the Bride
26- We must go to the Jew First
27- We must obey the 4 ordinances given to Gentiles in Acts 15
28- Christ could return at any moment
29- We saved Gentiles are Grafted into Israel
30- The Main Purpose of Acts was to build the church
In other words, everything GOOD that was, at the time, given to only Israel, from Gen 12 thru Acts 28, and was NEVER passed on to Gentiles, Christians, as a whole, steal from Israel. Anything bad, like the Judgements against Israel and the Tribulation, they do everything to avoid and want no part of. Surely God is too smart to let them get away with that brazen dishonesty.

Do you believe any of those things in the list? If you do, the chances are slim to none that you'll ever go to Heaven. Why? Because if you do believe those things are for you, it's impossible for you to believe the only truths for today, found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, since the 2 are drastically different. Why would God put you in Heaven, when you believe your calling is to the Kingdom on earth and/or the New Jerusalem, which certainly isn't Heaven?

Dispensationalism and Right Division
Anyone that is against dispensationalism is automatically against right division, 2Tim 2:15. Why? Because the basis of dispensationalism is right division and dispensationalists are the only people on the planet that rightly divide (correctly cut) God's Word of Truth.

There are 3 main types of dispensationalism- Acts 2, Acts 9, and Acts 28. The latter 2 are called hyper or ultra dispensationalists by their unknowledgeable detractors. All 3 cut and divide. The names of the 3 are based on the point in scripture where the CUT is made. The first 2 are not correctly cut because Israel is still active both before and after the cut. The only place in the Bible that, after cutting, is 100% Israel on one side of the cut and 100% Gentiles on the other side of the cut, is Acts 28:28.

After, cutting (in your mind), you divide the 2 pieces. Nothing given to, or applied to Israel, before the cut, applies to you, EVER. Everything after the cut CAN apply to you, but only if you SEE and believe it and eliminate all the non-applicable Jewish stuff from your personal doctrine (of things you THINK belong to you). This might be called Super Extreme Dispensationalism, but it's the ONLY possible way to satisfy 2Tim 2:15 and become approved unto God.

Coincidentally, Acts 28:28 is when Israel was set aside and when the Gentile Church of today started. This unique church is covered ONLY in Paul's 7 After-Acts books. The other 59 books, which are all-Israel, contain NOTHING at all about this all-Gentile church, since EVERYTHING about it was hid in God from all ages and generations as a Mystery (secret) until Paul revealed it after the very end of Acts - Col 1:26.

Once you rightly divide and see the truth that the only possible afterlife for you as a Gentile under Pure Grace, is found only on Paul's 7 After-Acts books, you will find that the most difficult part is to eliminate all those Israel-only things, some of which are in the list, none of which you could EVER hope to possess, so you can concentrate on the real truth. You've all been brainwashed, folks, mainly by the nearly worthless mainstream churches, all of whom think right division is something you learn in 3rd grade math. They are the culprits. They lie to you almost every time they open their mouth. The frightening part is they believe what they're saying, since they went through the same heretical system that you're stuck in. The ONLY good part is that most are good at getting you saved but, after that, they just waste your time. It took me 10 years to completely remove all of that Jewish stuff I thought was mine, but wasn't, from my head.
Well I believe about 20 of your items apply to today.
 
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Hidden In Him

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The wake-up call for an expansion of my teaching gift came in 1984 in a USA university's doctoral programme. In one class I questioned something in the text and the professor said, in front of 20 class members, 'Your views are b__ s__' and he didn't abbreviate.

LoL. You should have asked, "But how do you really feel? You seem to be holding back."
It was a wake-up call for my lack of training in apologetics. My churches had not equipped me for this uni encounter. Since then, I've had to equip myself.

God has enabled me to be engaged in some strenuous apologetic activity, incl a public debate with an ACT (Canberra) politician who was promoting euthanasia, and back and forth with atheists, etc.

I've had some similar experiences, and it sort of drives you to excel. Not sure if it's "God moves in mysterious ways," or "Necessity is the mother of invention."
 
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Enoch111

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I thought the thread was about females being pastors.
Too many threads get sidetracked or get focused on personalities.

While the biblical answer is simply "No" to the title, that won't stop some from saying it is "Yes". We have arrived at the point where the Bible is not the sole authority for determining anything. And so-called "rightly dividing" ends up being "wrongly dividing" the Word of Truth.
 
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Triumph1300

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We have arrived at the point where the Bible is not the sole authority for determining anything.

True.

The world has weaselled its way into the church under direction of the enemy with help of the feminist movement.

This all started in the 1970's.
That's when the wives had to leave the house to work in a job in order to support big mortgages and toys.
Children started to being raised by strangers during the day, which messed up the way they are growing up.

Once these children became adults they pushed marriages out the door and shacked up.
Pretty soon there will be only be gay marriages.
With all these things happening and the church being desensitized female pastors entered the churches. Including homosexual pastors and lesbian pastors.

It has been said on this thread that pastors and teachers are the same thing.
I disagree. A pastor must be a teacher and a shepherd besides pastoring the local flock.

A teacher is not always capable to be a pastor.
I do agree that women can be teachers.
Women played an important role in scriptures.