Why I DON'T believe Cain was the "literal" offspring of Eve and Satan

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Christina

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Well lets not make it personal or we can discuss all the false doctrine and men you follow in the catholic church I said I read it in Gods word and I found second witness out side that is acceptable study method and for your opinion on my experts the appendix to the companion Bible was an expert why dont you look up Bulinger he is the main contribter/writter to the concordance One of the most respected hebrew/biblical scholars of his day and now So let me see Bulinger or Dr. B ?? Uhmm I pick Bulinger
 

Christina

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Dr. BRendered "giants":Genesis 6:4Numbers 23Numbers 33Deuteronomy 2Deuteronomy 3:11 (king Og of Bashan)Job 16:14nĕphiyl Pronunciation nef·ēl' (Key)masculine nounfrom H5307Variant Spellings Variant spellings for this word: נפיל (Strongs and Gesenius) נפל (Strongs)[about] Outline of Biblical Usage 1) giants, the NephilimJOB 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God [beney ha'elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD and Satan also came among them. (NKJV) JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God [beney ha'elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. (NKJV) gen 6:2 the divine beings [beney ha'elohim] saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. notice its the same Hebrew word JUBILEES 5:1 And it came to pass when the children of men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the angels of God saw them on a certain year of this jubilee, that they were beautiful to look upon; and they took themselves wives of all whom they 2 chose, and they bare unto them sons and they were giants. And lawlessness increased on the earth and all flesh corrupted its way, alike men and cattle and beasts and birds and everything that walks on the earth – all of them corrupted their ways and their orders, and they began to devour each other, and lawlessness increased on the earth and every imagination of the thoughts of all menNow if Jublees is not an acceptable second wittness why do you include parts of it in you catholic Bible ??heres the credentials of the expert I quoted as my other second wittness His three major works were1.A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament (1877) ISBN 0-8254-2096-2; 2.Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (1898) ISBN 0-8010-0559-0 3.primary editor of The Companion Bible (published in 6 parts, 1909-1922 ISBN 0-8254-2177-2. It was completed after his death by his associates. These works and many others remain in print (2007).In 1881, he received a Doctor of Divinity degree from Archibald Campbell Tait, Archbishop of Canterbury who cited Bullinger's "eminent service in the Church in the department of Biblical criticism." [9]E. W. Bullinger (1837-1913) Born 15 December 1837Canterbury, Kent, England Died 6 June 1913 (aged 75)Education King's College London Occupation clergyman, Biblical scholar, and theologian Known for The Companion BibleSo yes I read Gods Word it is #1 then I study the lanuages that is used then I weigh out the supporting evidence then I weigh out whether it fits all scripture as there can be no contradictions in Gods Word after this I weigh out science and secular evidence if any And last but certainly not least I pray about it and ask God for wisdom so next time you want to post rude remarks you better know what your talking aboutBut hey you got an opinon Dr.B
 

DrBubbaLove

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Kriss,I did not claim that NO scholar ever held these views, clearly plenty of people in the Calvinist camp did. Just said I have never met any one with these views that was a scholar. My father studies the Bible, Strongs and reads a lot of religious books and he holds similar views on this to yours. I do not consider him a scholar or formerly educated in religious studies.You make this personal when you harass people for "following" the teachings of men then denying you are doing the same thing in this case. And if you think the book of Jubilees (or Enoch) is part of or in portion included in the Catholic Bible - then you need to get another hobby.
 

Christina

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I never said that Enoch or all Jubelees was in the catholic bible another mis quote by you and I never said using the work of scholars was bad we must at times refer to those who came before us all I ever said was We Must Go To God FIRST AND FOREMOST THEN IF A MANS WORKS/ WORDS DISAGREE WITH GODS WE CAN NOT USE THEM YOU ARE TWISTING WHAT I SAID TO MAKE SOME POINTand you know I hate Calvanism and consider it a false doctrine I dont know if they belief this but if true like most religion there is factand fiction within them.....sounds like you should listen more to your father
 

ami

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Dear All,I found this site to be very good and informant. However there are some teachings (threads) including one which says "Cain is the offspring of Satan" which are baseless. They tend to deceive believers specially those who are new to Christ. My advice to all Christians especially new Christians is to pray for guidance and take the word of God as the only base. Any human assumption or diversion from the word lead to failure.The bible says Gen4:1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.Ami
 

Christina

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ami before making judgements on what you do not have knowledge of or have not checked out is also against Gods word have you read thou shall not sit in judgement. I understand your concern but they are misplaced if you would have read futher we also stated this was a side study had nothing to do with ones salvation and our attention should first always be on Christ and his message but then maybe you think we should not be allowed to discuss anything you dont first approve of
 

Jordan

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To be clearly put, to say on this... To listen to one side for so long without listening to His saying will likely wlil not grow in His words.The word touch in Genesis 3:3 is the same difination in I Corinthians 7:1.The word touch in Genesis 3:3 is 5060 5060 naga` naw-gah' a primitive root; properly, to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman); by implication, to reach (figuratively, to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.):--beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.The word beguiled in Genesis 3:13 is 5377 5377 nasha' naw-shaw' a primitive root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:--beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.In II Corinthians 11:3 beguiled is 18181818. exapatao ex-ap-at-ah'-o from 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly:--beguile, deceiveFor further proof God said in Genesis 3:15 Genesis 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.How do you explain Thy seed and Her seed? To be honest, to say Cain is the son of Adam is like putting Satan as well in the pure linage for Christ to come through. I am not going to brush God away.On another note. The Old Testament is of physical. The New Testament is of spiritual.
 

kkboldt

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Well it is not a matter of any ones salvation wether you believe this or not and I wont force it on anyone you either see it or you dont.but if you want to debate it I will argue for it. It is rather an understanding of Gods entire plan and who the principalites we battle are it is the negative to Gods positive in scripture it runs the entire lenghth of the bible we just are not commonly taught it and he has foretold us all things its just wether you see it or not. All the reasons you gave above are easily disproved in Hebrew and scripture they are all the normal replys to what you have been taught but they are wrong but you have to have some understanding of Hebrew for example you say there are no scripture that say Eve had intercourse with Satan true in English but the Hebrew says she was wholly seduced. There is also tons of scripture where people are called trees it is no differnt in Gen who do you think the tree of Good and evil is (Satan himself) he was created good and became evil. I wont go through each reason you gave believe as you like
Hi Kriss,Yes, and I understand your arguments as well. I've have read many. However, to be "seduced" doesn't necessarily mean "sex". We are seduced into many things in life, and they don't involve sex.The Hebrew word for "seduced" is ta-ah which means "to reel or stray, to be deceived, to cause to err, to stagger, to wander away or astray". (Page 125, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, 1984 edition, Hebrew and Chaldee dictionary)It has nothing to do with sex in this case.We are seduced into buying things we don't need. We are seduced by the power of money and greed....clothes, shoes, jewelry, automobiles, motorcycles, electronics, homes, and other material things of the world.We are seduced by the need to be "first" in everything! Seduced by power.In Eve's case, she was "seduced" by Satan's words, "you will be as gods!"Think about it. Adam and Eve had everything that God provided for them. They were in want of nothing. So what could the Serpent offer them that they thought they didn't have? Lie to them. Entice them into believing they would be as "gods", knowing both good and evil. The word "serpent" in Hebrew is "Nachash", also, a proper name with capital "N", according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. It was his name. And his name means "divine enchanter". The Serpent also lied, "for God knows if you eat of this fruit, you will not really die". In other words, the Serpent tried to make it look like God was the liar!Adam and Eve lost their immortality and became "mortal", capable of decay and death, albeit, they lived hundreds of years later, then eventually died. And their offspring after that, no longer having access to the Tree of Life gradually lived shorter and shorter lives, until the average lifespan of men was just over a hundred years old.And no where in the Bible or Hebrew Tanakh (of which I have) does it say that Satan was originally created "good". In the Hebrew Tanakh, the chapter in Isaiah regarding "Lucifer" is not there. The name "Lucifer" is a later Latin word added by the Roman Catholics, of which the Protestant, William Tyndale decided to omit, but was added again later on. The KJV of Isaiah where the name "Lucifer" occurs is about the King of Babylon. Because Babylon is the beginning of the "anti-christ" system which rules this world now. God was speaking "sarchastically" of the King of Babylon who had exhalted himself above the throne of God.Satan is still the "adversary or accuser, or opponent of good" today. That's hasnt' changed. Just as he was during the time of Job. (Page 115 of Strong's)In the Greek, he is "Satanas" which means "accuser", (page 64 of the Greek dictionary of Strong's) He was the accuser at the time of Job and the accuser at the time of Jesus.And he as no power over us unless we let him or unless God allows him to deceive.Kim
 

kkboldt

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Dear All,I found this site to be very good and informant. However there are some teachings (threads) including one which says "Cain is the offspring of Satan" which are baseless. They tend to deceive believers specially those who are new to Christ. My advice to all Christians especially new Christians is to pray for guidance and take the word of God as the only base. Any human assumption or diversion from the word lead to failure.The bible says Gen4:1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.Ami
Exactly, Ami!Let's stick to the Word of God. Anything else is an "assumption" and goes astray from the message.The simple matter is that Cain did NOT walk in spirit with God while his brother Abel did. Cain murdered Abel over this. Cain had an "angry and bitter" spirit.God said to Cain:Genesis 4:6-7 "And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth (angry)? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."In other words, if Cain would have done what was good and right he would have been accepted by God. But Cain couldn't get over his anger, so he murdered his brother.Then Adam and Eve bore Seth who DID walk with the Spirit of God. As Genesis points out,Genesis 4:25-26 "And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD."This phrase is very important. Men began to "call upon the name of the Lord".Cain was driven EAST and no longer walked with God. Why was Cain's punishment more than he could bear? Because he would no longer walk with God and share in the blessings that come with that. If Cain was the son of Satan, why would he even care whether or not God sent him into exile?Who is a "son of God"?The Apostle Paul states here:Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.Seth's descendants were led by the Spirit of God all the way until we reach Noah and his family who were spared from the Flood. Kim
 

kkboldt

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To be clearly put, to say on this... To listen to one side for so long without listening to His saying will likely wlil not grow in His words.The word touch in Genesis 3:3 is the same difination in I Corinthians 7:1.The word touch in Genisis 3:3 is 5060 5060 naga` naw-gah' a primitive root; properly, to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman); by implication, to reach (figuratively, to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.):--beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.The word beguiled in Genesis 3:13 is 5377 5377 nasha' naw-shaw' a primitive root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:--beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.In II Corinthians 11:3 beguiled is 18181818. exapatao ex-ap-at-ah'-o from 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly:--beguile, deceiveFor further proof God said in Genesis 3:15 Genesis 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.How do you explain Thy seed and Her seed? To be honest, to say Cain is the son of Adam is like putting Satan as well in the pure linage for Christ to come through. I am not going to brush God away.On another note. The Old Testament is of physical. The New Testament is of spiritual.
These are all good points. But I have would have to say that the WHOLE Bible is BOTH spiritual and physical. When did God change?"I am the LORD, I change not." Malachi 3:6Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.80 percent of the New Testament is quoted from the Old.The "enmity" between thy seed and her seed is "figure of speech".The serpent's seed is not meant to be taken at full literal, physical face value. For anyone who follows the path of Satan is considered to be "of his seed", spiritually.Why?And anyone who follows the WAY of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, is considered of his "seed" spiritually. For not all that are the physical children of God are saved. Why?Because, you are not saved by genetics, nor are you condemned by genetics, but by YOUR Spirit, whether it be good or bad!The Apostle Paul wrote:Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.God looks at the hearts of men, not their physical make up. 1Kings 8:39 "Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, [even] thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of menProverbs 15:11 "Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?"Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 1Thessalonians 2:4 "But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts."Did not Jesus say,Matthew 8:11-12 "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."And did he not also say:Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."It is not what comes from "genetics" that condemns a person, it is what's in his or hers heart that this examined by God.Kim
 

HammerStone

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The word "serpent" in Hebrew is "Nachash", also, a proper name with capital "N", according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. It was his name. And his name means "divine enchanter".
Well you're far better off than most by recognizing this and I appreciate that. However, part of the root for nachash (serpent) was also used to denote how beautiful it was, which is not a typical trait of a snake. Beauty is repeatedly emphasized in the passage for a reason, particularly when Eve sees the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

And no where in the Bible or Hebrew Tanakh (of which I have) does it say that Satan was originally created "good". In the Hebrew Tanakh, the chapter in Isaiah regarding "Lucifer" is not there. The name "Lucifer" is a later Latin word added by the Roman Catholics, of which the Protestant, William Tyndale decided to omit, but was added again later on. The KJV of Isaiah where the name "Lucifer" occurs is about the King of Babylon. Because Babylon is the beginning of the "anti-christ" system which rules this world now. God was speaking "sarchastically" of the King of Babylon who had exhalted himself above the throne of God.
Ezekiel 28Ezekiel 28:13-14 to be exact.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
 

kkboldt

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Ezekiel 28:13-14 to be exact.[/QUOTE]Hi Denver,Yes that passage parallels the passages in Isaiah regarding the King of Babylon.That passage in Ezekiel is specifically referring to the King of Tyrus. Tyrus was a city of the Babylonian empire. Here is the paragraph that precedes that verse.Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.The King of Tyrus, not Satan, is the subject of this chapter.These passages are about the JUDGMENT of Tyrus and Zidon which were destroyed by God. We must keep this focus.Both the King of Tyrus and the King of Babylon were worshipped as "gods" by their people. Both of them being OF Babylon.They exalted their thrones above God himself.So God is asking Ezekiel to be sarchastic here. In other words, when did the King of Tyrus suddenly become the "annointed cherub that covereth"? "Oh, so you were in the Garden of Eden, eh?It's not meant to be taken literally. The same thing occurs in the book of Isaiah here:Isaiah 14:4 "That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!"Just as some skeptic were to say to us, when did we become God? Well, we know we are not God and we take insult by that statement.Whenever someone becomes so conceited in their own minds and think that their way is better than God's, they've exalted themselves above God.The King of Tyrus was not "literally" in the Garden of Eden. We read on in Isaiah, chapter 14,Isaiah 14:21-22 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD."And NOTE: no where in those passages does the name of Satan appear. Not even the "Serpent, Dragon or Devil".Both Ezekiel and Isaiah are NOT about Satan, or the "adversary".They are about the abuses of the Kings of Babylon and the destruction of their empire.Whenever, a verse is about Satan, it mentions either his name, Satan, or one of his namesakes, "the dragon, the accuser, serpent, the devil".Why is this important? Because Babylon is still ruling the world as the "Mystery Babylon" of the book of Revelation.It still rules! Granted, it's under the direction of the powers of darkness of Satan, but ruled by EARTHLY kings.Kim
 

Christina

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This is scripture it is what the the Key of David is just because one has never been taught this stop saying its not biblical the fact it is biblical will it change anything NoChrist is our savior but understanding how our enemys attempts to foil Gods plan and how he is so wonderful and God defeated him is amazing it increase ones faith not change it If you would get your minds out of Sunday school teachings and look at the awesome Battle our Lord won for us you be amazed.Its like hearing we won a war you think great we Won but when you start understanding the planing and hear about the details of the single battles You go Wow I didnt know how much planning went into that or why that happened. This is what this teaching isIts the details of the battles doesnt change the fact Christ won and God wins in the End its the details of how. There fore it is Gods Word and Shows us just how awesome he is. Its also the Key to understanding the Whole of Gods plan.If your not interested put it on shelf and forget it. If you want to know what Gods plan is how he was attacked and the how of itthen open your mind and learn from Gods Word
 

HammerStone

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I think it's impossible to say that those verses from Ezekiel 28 are meant to be taken figuratively and there's a very simple understanding of why.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Father doesn't create false Gods. Even supposing for a second that this was not literal, it presents a real problem because firstly, any king of Tyrus was not present in the Garden of Eden. Secondly, as I said before, our Father doesn't create false Gods, that is the work of man. The types that the King of Assyria and the later King of Babylon present are always the rod of YHVH meaning they're a mere instrument he allows. They did view themselves as gods, but were not made that way by God himself.Finally, one has to be familiar with what Tyrus is another word for. It means rock just as the city itself literally sits on a rock off the coast. For fully understanding what this means, I would go to the Song of Moses.Deuteronomy 32:15
But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
Deuteronomy 32:18
Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
Deuteronomy 32:30-31
How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up? For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
The point of this is that there is one alone who likes to play God. He was created, as a cherub, and he fell away as described in Revelation 12. He is given many titles of which Lucifer is his name and Satan used to describe what he is. However, there are numerous other examples of him being called anything from a serpent to a dragon, prince of the world, king of Tyre, etc.
 

Jordan

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To be clearly put, to say on this... To listen to one side for so long without listening to His saying will likely wlil not grow in His words.The word touch in Genesis 3:3 is the same difination in I Corinthians 7:1.The word touch in Genisis 3:3 is 5060 5060 naga` naw-gah' a primitive root; properly, to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman); by implication, to reach (figuratively, to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.):--beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.The word beguiled in Genesis 3:13 is 5377 5377 nasha' naw-shaw' a primitive root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:--beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.In II Corinthians 11:3 beguiled is 18181818. exapatao ex-ap-at-ah'-o from 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly:--beguile, deceiveFor further proof God said in Genesis 3:15 Genesis 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.How do you explain Thy seed and Her seed? To be honest, to say Cain is the son of Adam is like putting Satan as well in the pure linage for Christ to come through. I am not going to brush God away.On another note. The Old Testament is of physical. The New Testament is of spiritual.
hese are all good points. But I have would have to say that the WHOLE Bible is BOTH spiritual and physical. When did God change?"I am the LORD, I change not." Malachi 3:6Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.80 percent of the New Testament is quoted from the Old.The "enmity" between thy seed and her seed is "figure of speech".The serpent's seed is not meant to be taken at full literal, physical face value. For anyone who follows the path of Satan is considered to be "of his seed", spiritually.Why?And anyone who follows the WAY of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, is considered of his "seed" spiritually. For not all that are the physical children of God are saved. Why?Because, you are not saved by genetics, nor are you condemned by genetics, but by YOUR Spirit, whether it be good or bad!The Apostle Paul wrote:Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.God looks at the hearts of men, not their physical make up. 1Kings 8:39 "Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, [even] thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of menProverbs 15:11 "Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?"Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 1Thessalonians 2:4 "But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts."Did not Jesus say,Matthew 8:11-12 "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."And did he not also say:Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."It is not what comes from "genetics" that condemns a person, it is what's in his or hers heart that this examined by God.KimOf course the words in the Bible are full of literal and figure of speeches and I already know that God can never change.Let me give quite an example of why the Old Testament is of physical?Did not God say that He killed many people in a flood around Noah's Time?Did He not say to kill people as in to be put to death if they lie with the same sex (homosexuality)?Did He not save 3 people from the furnace?Now since God is His own sacrifice as He died on the cross for our sins? Is He going to kill any more people after He fulfilled His finished pure bloodline? No.However Satan is the author of the spiritual flood...a flood of lies.Jag
 

n2thelight

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In order to understand satan having sex with Eve, you must understand why.Satan knew that the Messiah Jesus Christ would come through the lineage of Eve. This was the first attempt by satan to destroy the pure seed line that Christ was to come through, umbilical cord to umbilical cord, four-thousand years later. The second attempt was with the fallen angels,Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord."Genesis 6:9 "These are THE GENERATIONS OF NOAH; Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Hoah walked with God."The term, "and perfect in his generations," is referring only to his ancestry. Does it mean there was no sin in them? No; for we know sin came into this world through his ancestors, because the Bible clearly tells us of the sins of Adam and eve in Genesis 3, and Enos in Generation 4:26. Both Noah, and his wife came from families which are recorded in the scriptures, as not mixing with the fallen angels. Neither of them had a drop of angels blood in their veins.The word "generations" in the Hebrew text is # 8735 in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, and comes from the Hebrew prime; "Toledoth", and means family tree, or history. When we take "family history called "perfect", in the Hebrew text it is called "tamin", that family is "without blemish as to breed, or pedigree".This verse does not speak of Noah's moral perfection, but tells us that he and his family had preserved their pedigree, and kept it pure, inspire of the prevailing corruption brought about by the fallen angels, [their children were called "Nephilim"].And the third time was with Herod,for after he(satan) failed in his attempt to polute the bloodline, he tried to kill Christ before He grew up.Matthew 2:13 "And when they were departed, behold, the Angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, "Arise and take the young Child and His mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him."Satan is fearful of Christ because he knows that it is Jesus Christ who will eventually accomplish casting him into the lake of fire (Hell), which will be his eternal perdition. This is prophesied, and we will cover it in [Gen 3:15]. We know that satan's plan failed with the ultimate birth of Jesus Christ who upon his crucifixion, defeated death, which is to say defeated satan. Satan is death, it is one of his many names and roles he has played and will play in the Bible.Gen 3:14-1514 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go*1, and dust shalt thou eat*2 all the days of thy life:Explanations from above verse: *1 upon thy belly shalt thou go = A Hebraism (figure of speech) for utter defeat as in Ps 72:9 & Isa 49:23. *2 dust shalt thou eat = A Hebraism (figure of speech) meaning an ultimate term of degradation, as in Ps 44:25.Now the next verse is where "the rubber meets the road" as far as what really happened between the serpent and Eve. This verse will also show us the first mention of the promise of the Messiah Jesus Christ. This verse also contains the first prophecy in the Bible:15 And I will put enmity*1 between thee and the woman*2, and between thy seed and her seed*3; it*4shall bruise thy head*5, and thou*6shalt bruise his heel*7. Explanations from above verse: *1 enmity = Hebrew word #342 'eybah (ay-baw'); from 340; hostility: a primitive root; to hate (as one of an opposite tribe or party); hence to be hostile. *2 between thee and the woman = Not enmity between a garden snake and a woman, that doesn't even make sense! But enmity between the offspring of the serpent (satan) and the offspring of the woman (Eve, through Adam, and thus of God). *3 between thy seed and her seed = seed: Hebrew word #2233 zera`- seed, sowing, offspring, a sowing, seed, semen virile, offspring, descendants, posterity, children. From #2232:to become pregnant, to be made pregnant. *4 it = Jesus Christ. *5 bruise thy head = Jesus destroying satan. *6 thou = Satan. *7 bruise his heel = Satan causing the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.In [Gen 3:15] above, you have in the statement: "Enmity Between thy seed and her seed" the first great prophecy of the Bible. Eve was the great great great. . . great ancestor of the Messiah Jesus Christ, by birth to birth . Jesus is the "her seed" referred to here. Satan and his offspring are the "thy seed" referred to. The serpent's progeny, his offspring, will be cast into the lake of fire after judgment day. Satan, in the role of antichrist will also be destroyed at that time, as well as all the roles that satan has played since the beginning of time, just like the burying of a copyrighted actor, all his roles go with him. In other words, from this first prophecy you have the entire plan of God. The battle between good and evil has already been won by God. All that remains is for each of us; each individual soul that has ever lived, or will ever live, must make their own choice as to whether they will follow God into the eternal Heaven, or follow satan into the eternal perishment of the lake of fire, the abyss (Hell).Those are the only two choices, there is no special place set aside for those who call themselves: Agnostics, Atheists, Heathen, Non-believers, "Mr. Or Ms. I don't have time for God," or "Mr. Or Ms. I don't give a care,". . . These are all just fancy titles and descriptions for the same lot that will accompany satan into the pit, into the abyss, the lake of fire if they don't repent and worship Almighty God and his only begotten Son Jesus Christ, before that great and final Day of Judgment. This is scripture, it is written, it is the second death, and it is the death of a soul [Rev 20:10-15]. Gen 3:1616 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and*1 thy conception*2; in sorrow*3 thou shalt bring forth children*4; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Explanations from above verse: *1 and = Read as: "And multiply thy conception." Eve had twins. *2 conception = Hebrew word # 2032; pregnancy: from # 2029; harah to conceive, to become pregnant, to bear, to be with child, to be conceived, progenitor. * 3 sorrow = Hebrew #6089: Worry, toil. This is not talking about the physical pain of childbirth, it is mental anguish. After all, one son killed the other. And the remaining one was banished from Eve's sight forever. This brought Eve much sorrow, think like a mother to understand this word "sorrow." *4 children = Hebrew word # 1121; ben: Son. Plural, this Hebrew word is unique in that it is only used of male offspring! It was talking about Cain and Abel. Eve was now pregnant by the serpent (satan), Adam doesn't have sex with her until the next chapter. Adam and Eve were innocent in the Garden of God, knowing no evil or sin. Satan came in and took advantage of their naivety and the inherent disobedience of man. Adam will have sex with Eve [Gen 4:1] and she will bear twins from separate conceptions, but the same pregnancy (Fraternal twins). You will see that the order of birth is consistent with the order of conception, Cain is born first, then Eve continued in labor and bare Cain's brother Abel. Gen 4:1-21 And Adam knew*1 Eve his wife; and she conceived*2, and bare Cain*3, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD*4. Explanations from above verse: *1 knew = Sexual intercourse. *2 conceived = Second conception (Abel). *3 Cain = Born first (serpents son). *4 = Read as: "I have gotten a son with the help of the Lord:" ('ish 'eth Jehovah). Eve had no idea what was going on here, she did not know that Cain was from the serpent (satan).2 And she again*1 bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. Explanations from above verse: *1 again = Hebrew word # 3254; yacaph (yaw-saf'); a primitive root; to add or augment (often adverbial, to continue to do a thing). In other words, Eve continued in labor and had the second of twins.OK, now If Eve bore Cain and then continued in labor and bore Abel, what do you have? Twins of course. And If Adam had her once, and the serpent had her once, and God told her that her punishment would be to bear children (plural, and most specifically male) in sorrow (not the pain of delivering children), and that her children's children would always be enemies, even murder! What do you have? What's shaping up here?Cain and Abel were Fraternal Twins, born of two separate conceptions, by two different fathers. One, satan through the serpent; and one, God through Adam, and eventually 4000 years later, umbilical cord to umbilical cord would be born the Messiah Jesus Christ, whom satan would cause to be nailed to the cross (bruise His heels), crucified; but whom would eventually cast satan into the lake of fire (Hell) and eternal death (bruise his head).(The seed flourishes. This is the ancestry of Jesus Christ. Observe that Cain is not mentioned, for he is not in Adams generations [genealogy]. Nor is Abel, whom Cain slew, because he had no progeny, leaving only Seth to carry on Adams seed-line [family name])Gen 5:1-71 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. 3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: 4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:You notice that Cain is not mentioned in Adams Generations (Genealogy)! It goes from Adam to Seth. This is because Abel died without having any progeny (children) and thus not in the line of Christ. And Cain is not Adams son!Adam is the Great Ancestor of Jesus Christ on Mother Mary's side. You will also notice that Cain is not mentioned. The birthright went to Seth, for Cain was not of Adam.Luke 3:21-38 (Verse 24-37 omitted)21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, . . . (verse 38) Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
 

kkboldt

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Dec 6, 2007
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Yes, I know all of this. I've studied it for many years, heading for 30 years now.First of all, we are talking about two schools of theology on this and I have studied both.Your whole premise is based on the fact that Fallen Angels, "supernatural beings", had sex with human women and that Satan or the Serpent must be one of these "Fallen Angels".You "assume" that supernatural beings have even the capability to have sexual intercourse with humans. And you "assume" that angels are supernatural beings when the Bible says no such thing.Next, I've explained in other posts that the "Sons of God" were, indeed, the Sons through Seth's line. A "son of God" is anyone who walks in the Spirit of God. It is a "human", not a supernatural being.The Bene-elohim, the ben, bane, or banah, "builders of the family of God", according to Strong's. These were HUMANS.Next, the Hebrew word for "angel" is "malawk" which means, messenger, but ALSO means, king, priest, judge, ruler, shepherd. In other words, an ANGEL according to the Hebrew language is a HUMAN! In BOTH the Greek AND the Hebrew language.Men have ASSUMED that angels are supernatural beings as they are used throughout the Bible. The ONLY supernatural "angel" described in the Bible is "The Angel of the LORD". As this is God himself manifested as a theophany.Furthermore, you take away the personal responsibility that mankind is supposed to have and you make an excuse for him by stating that it was "Devil that made him do it".God placed responsibility on MEN and WOMEN, not supernatural beings, to do what it is right. And when men screw up, they can't blame Satan for it.Satan is only the adversary or accuser. BOTH the Greek and Hebrew languages state this.Satan's power only comes because MEN give it to him, and God allows him to operate as a chastising tool.Now in the case of Satan's seed. He doesn't have to actually procreate with women to "plant his evil seeds". Evil seed is planted in the MINDS of humans. It is OUR very thoughts that are evil. And BOTH, the children of God AND the children of the "wicked one" are capable of evil thoughts.We commit sin without even realizing it everyday. You also base your study on the premise that the children of God are perfect and righteous and nothing could be further from the truth.The TRUTH is, we are ALL capable of EVIL! And when we face up to this, we will realize that the "seeds of Satan" have nothing to do with genetics! But with the evil thoughts and imaginations of MEN!Therefore, Satan doesn't need to physically procreate with Eve to do this. All he needed to do was be "clever and cunning, and twist the truth."And last, but not least. No where in the Bible, does it say that Eve and the Serpent had sex.Your whole study is based in "assumption" and not Biblical fact.And that is why I'm not convinced of the Eve/Satan procreation.Men and women are evil enough these days without the help of genetics.Kim
 

kkboldt

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Dec 6, 2007
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Cain is no longer mentioned in the geneology because he no longer walked with God. He was banished, exiled from the kingdom.It's that simple. That's why Cain said his punishment was more than he could bear. He would no longer have anything to do with God. It had nothing to do with genetics.NEXT, Do you really think God is this stupid? Don't you think God would have known if Eve had sex with the Serpent? And if so, don't you think God would have mentioned it?The fact is God doesn't mention it is because it's not there.God's asks Cain "why are you angry?" And then tells Cain that if he does well he would be accepted. And if he doesn't do well, he wouldn't be accepted.Do you think God would have given Cain this option if he knew Cain was the offspring of Eve?Don't you see? It had nothing to do with genetics! We are talking about the "behavior" of men and women. It is up to US to do what's right in the eyes of God and when we screw up, we can't blame the Devil for it! Just give it some thought.Kim
 

n2thelight

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Dec 24, 2006
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kkboldtFirst, let's look at all of the Old Testament references to "sons of God" (Heb. bene elim or bene elohim): GENESIS 6:1 When men began to increase on earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the divine beings [bene elohim] saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. 3 The Lord said, "My breath shall not abide in man forever, since he too is flesh; let the days allowed him be one hundred and twenty years." 4 It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth when the divine beings [bene elohim] cohabited with the daughters of men, who bore them offspring. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown. (Tanakh, the new Jewish Publication Society translation according to the traditional Hebrew text)DEUTERONOMY 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God [bene elim]. (RSV) JOB 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God [bene elohim] came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among them. (NKJV) JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God [bene elohim] came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. (NKJV)JOB 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God [bene elohim] shouted for joy? (NKJV)PSALM 29:1 O give the Lord you sons of God [bene elim], give the Lord glory and power; 2 give the Lord the glory of his name. Adore the Lord in his holy court. (The Psalms: A New Translation)PSALM 89:5 The heavens proclaim your wonders, O Lord; the assembly of your holy ones proclaims your truth. 6 For who in the skies ["heaven" - KJV] can compare with the Lord or who is like the Lord among the sons of God [bene elim]? (The Psalms: A New Translation) DANIEL 3:25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God [Ch. bar 'elahh]." (NKJV) As you can see, each reference above is to angels. There are no instances in the Old Testament where "the sons of God" refer to men.""The Sons of God" in Gen. 6.2, 4. It is only by the Divine specific act of creation that any created being can be called "a son of God." For that which is "born of the flesh is flesh." God is spirit and that which is "born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3.6). Hence Adam is called a "son of God" in Luke 3.38. Those "in Christ" having the "new nature" which is by the direct creation of God (2 Cor. 5.17; Eph. 2.l0) can be, and are called "sons of God" (John 1.13; Rom. 8.14, 15; 1 John 3.1). This is why angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament. Job 1.6; 2.1; 38.7; Ps. 29.1; 89.6; Dan. 3.25 (no art.). We have no authority or right to take the expression in Gen. 6.4 in any other sense."E.W,BullingerSo my question to you is,how can you change the meaning of the sons of God spoken of in the Old Testament?
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Cain is no longer mentioned in the geneology because he no longer walked with God. He was banished, exiled from the kingdom.It's that simple. That's why Cain said his punishment was more than he could bear. He would no longer have anything to do with God. It had nothing to do with genetics.NEXT, Do you really think God is this stupid? Don't you think God would have known if Eve had sex with the Serpent? And if so, don't you think God would have mentioned it?The fact is God doesn't mention it is because it's not there.God's asks Cain "why are you angry?" And then tells Cain that if he does well he would be accepted. And if he doesn't do well, he wouldn't be accepted.Do you think God would have given Cain this option if he knew Cain was the offspring of Eve?Don't you see? It had nothing to do with genetics! We are talking about the "behavior" of men and women. It is up to US to do what's right in the eyes of God and when we screw up, we can't blame the Devil for it! Just give it some thought.Kim
God mentions lots of people in genealogies that didn't walk with him poor reasoning genealogies are extremly important in Gods word and he takes meticlous care to record them.of course God knew he just allows free will even if it was Satan and Evehe allowed them to choose their fate just as he does you he does mention it not only in Genesis but throughout scriptureyou just have to understand how to understand Gods plan for salvation and Satan's plan too destroy it God is the winner but he told us all things even how Satan tried to defeat him. And it absolutely has to do with a pure bloodline for Christ other wise a virgin birth would not matter eitherthis study has nothing to do with your salvation it simply learning how to dig deeper things out of Gods word to understand the fullness of the story about who and how God defeated the enemy.