Strong Women In Today's World

judges 4. 8
4 "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. 5 And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.
8 And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.
14 And Deborah said unto Barak, Up; for this is the day in which the Lord hath delivered Sisera into thine hand: is not the Lord gone out before thee? So Barak went down from mount Tabor, and ten thousand men after him. "

Hidden In Him said:

Keep in mind too, Victory, this was being taught to the Corinthians because they were having problems with pride. Paul also taught in other places that if believers embraced humility their shame was turned to their glory (1 Corinthians 1:26-31, 2 Corinthians 6:10, others).

Click to expand...

Webers_Home said:

.
● Gen 3:16 . . and he shall rule over you.

That is probably one of the most hated verses in the whole Bible. Eve's
daughters do not like to be subjugated to and/or dominated by men. It
really goes against their grain; and if the women's suffrage movement that
took place in America's early 1900's were to be thoroughly analyzed, it
would not surprise me that women's right to vote wasn't really an equality
issue: it was a rebellion against male domination; which of course is to be
expected in a world gone mad with evil.

The current "strong woman" attitude is no doubt another aspect of that
same kind of rebellion; which in reality is not only a standing up to men, but
also a standing up to God seeing as how Gen 3:16 is a divine order rather
than human.

Gen 3:16 isn't restricted to marriage. It regulates women's place in Christian
churches too-- all Christian churches.

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the
churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the
Law says." (1Cor 14:33-35)

"Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. I do not
allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain
quiet." (1Tim 2:11-15)

How long the Adams cohabited sans the imposition of a gender hierarchy
isn't stated; but apparently there was no evident need for it prior to the
forbidden fruit incident; just as there was no evident need of a suitable
companion for Adam till he failed to find one from among the animal
kingdom.

My guess is that the measure is mostly to discourage wives from making
life-changing decisions on their own, independent of their husband's feelings
about it. I mean; if Eve had first consulted with her husband to see what he
thought of the Serpent's discussion before tasting the fruit, things may have
turned out quite differently.
_

Click to expand...

1 Peter 3:1Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

Strong women is something I would like to see in women that are protective of their young and even the husband, should he be in need of help. So I reckon a brave woman whose actions is done out of love for others is really the strength I admire.

But the idea of a strong women being feminism is unBiblical and hardly godly.

So men should desire a godly woman. One can hope that the Lord will provide the strength & the bravery when she needs it to protect her family.

It certainly would take His fruits in a wife to do what Peter teaches wives to be. Christian wives need His help to put their confidence in Him in them to be able to do His will. The husbands should do the same albeit, their duties are different as men will be accountable to the Lord for their wives spiritual welfare... granted.. what the Lord has enable them to do in seeking the good of their wives in the Lord.

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. 8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. 13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? 14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

That's for husbands in having difficult wives to love, but they can with His love and His help. Our lives are temporary down here. I even need His help to set my treasure on the things above and not of the earth where rust & moth and thieves and disappointments reign not just in others, but in ourselves as well.

Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

VictoryinJesus said:

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. " Is that the glory you speak of?​

Click to expand...

No, not really. The glory I was speaking of was already being bestowed upon the church in this life, through revelation and favor from God, as 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 suggests.

VictoryinJesus said:

I don't quite know how to say it. I've always thought to be a light set on a hill means to shine bright and glimmer and to be glamourous and pretty.

Click to expand...

See, the light they were to shine was wisdom and revelation from God, such as of the truth of the gospel, which they were entrusted with. "God has revealed it to us" is in the past tense in 1 Corinthians 2:10, as an already accomplished fact. So is "And we have received not the spirit of the world but the spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." (1 Corinthians 2:12).

VictoryinJesus said:

So, I am confused over what His bride looks like(now). Because, yes, she embraces humility but has she been raised 'in honour'. Or is the honour yet to come?

Click to expand...

Actually, I do not think the church as embraced humility, and as a result she is not currently raised in honor like the New Testament church was. Part of being "raised in glory" (in the spiritual sense) was having the Holy Spirit poured out upon them in abundance, such that all were operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and powerful supernatural ones at that.

Hidden In Him said:

No, not really. The glory I was speaking of was already being bestowed upon the church in this life, through revelation and favor from God, as 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 suggests.


See, the light they were to shine was wisdom and revelation from God, such as of the truth of the gospel, which they were entrusted with. "God has revealed it to us" is in the past tense in 1 Corinthians 2:10, as an already accomplished fact. So is "And we have received not the spirit of the world but the spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." (1 Corinthians 2:12).


Actually, I do not think the church as embraced humility, and as a result she is not currently raised in honor like the New Testament church was. Part of being "raised in glory" (in the spiritual sense) was having the Holy Spirit poured out upon them in abundance, such that all were operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and powerful supernatural ones at that.

Click to expand...

I get what you are saying but this is where I am confused. The OP is about "and He shall rule over you." He (Christ), is He not able to rule perfectly over His own body? Does Christ not fully have the ability to infuse His bride(His body) with strength? To say 'His strength is made perfect in weakness' what does that even mean? What does strength look like? Is it inward, or outward? To me strength is in 'the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain'. Is that not the removing of the world (the temporal) and the love of it out of His bride. If that is the case...then He(the Lord) is fully accomplishing this right before our eyes. He is purifying Her. Taking the world out of Her. We may not like it. But God is working Her impurities to the surface and skimming them off, until He is all that remains in Her, so when the shaking comes...she is strong(in Him).

VictoryinJesus said:

He (Christ), is He not able to rule perfectly over His own body?

Click to expand...

Not unless she enters fully into obedience, no. He could force her to, but this is not the relationship He wants to have with his bride. It is precisely the problem I have with the OP. He uses words like "dominate" a lot. Our Lord is not out to "dominate" us. He wants our willing obedience, out of love. When He has no choice but to correct, He will do so. But this is NOT what He wants. He wants willful submission out of love, not out of being coerced.

VictoryinJesus said:

Does Christ not fully have the ability to infuse His bride(His body) with strength?

Click to expand...

If she is willing to be, yes, but most disqualify themselves from this kind of intimacy with God through things like pride, sin, lust, greed, etc. It is why we see so little of the power of God in operation today. We would abuse His power and Presence for the sake of fulfilling our lusts.

VictoryinJesus said:

What does strength look like? Is it inward, or outward?

Click to expand...

Both, in that the Devil can't even kill us if the Lord chooses not to allow it. As Paul said, "As dying, yet we live." Paul should have died several times over, LoL, they just couldn't seem to kill him. Was he beautiful to behold? I doubt it. He bore the scars of the Lord Jesus Christ in his own flesh. But he was a hard man to keep down.

VictoryinJesus said:

To me strength is in 'the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain'. Is that not the removing of the world (the temporal) and the love of it out of His bride.

Click to expand...

Yes.

VictoryinJesus said:

If that is the case...then He(the Lord) is fully accomplishing this right before our eyes. He is purifying Her. Taking the world out of Her. We may not like it. But God is working Her impurities to the surface and skimming them off

Click to expand...

Ummmm... He will. But He has not done so to any great extent just yet, IMHO. When serious persecution and deep-seated hatred over Christians reaches a much higher pitch, yes, that is when you will see the gold purified in the fires of trials and afflictions. But I don't think we're there yet, at least not in the United States.

Hidden In Him said:

Not unless she enters fully into obedience, no. He could force her to, but this is not the relationship He wants to have with his bride. It is precisely the problem I have with the OP. He uses words like "dominate" a lot. Our Lord is not out to "dominate" us. He wants our willing obedience, out of love. When He has no choice but to correct, He will do so. But this is NOT what He wants. He wants willful submission out of love, not out of being coerced.


If she is willing to be, yes, but most disqualify themselves from this kind of intimacy with God through things like pride, sin, lust, greed, etc. It is why we so little of the power of God in operation today. We would abuse His power and Presence for the sake of fulfilling our lusts.


Both, in that the Devil can't even kill us if the Lord chooses not to allow it. As Paul said, "As dying, yet we live." Paul should have died several times over, LoL, they just couldn't seem to kill him. Was he beautiful to behold? I doubt it. He bore the scars of the Lord Jesus Christ in his own flesh. But he was a hard man to keep down.


Yes.


Ummmm... He will. But He has not done so to any great extent just yet, IMHO. When serious persecution and deep-seated hatred over Christians reaches a much higher pitch, yes, that is when you will see the gold purified in the fires of trials and afflictions. But I don't think we're there yet, at least not in the United States.

Click to expand...

I get it. There again, that is my struggle. Everything the world has shown me about “to dominate” or “and he shall rule over you” makes me want to run as fast as I can from submission. But also, “to dominate” means to have dominion over. Which isn’t bad when it is the Lord that has dominion. I’ve maybe done a poor showing of it, but I do trust submission into His ever faithful hands for correction and molding.

John 6:67-68
[67] Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? [68] Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Thank you, Hidden in Him for your thoughtful replies and time.

VictoryinJesus said:

But also, “to dominate” means to have dominion over. Which isn’t bad when it is the Lord that has dominion. I’ve maybe done a poor showing of it, but I do trust submission into His ever faithful hands for correction and molding.

Thank you, Hidden in Him for your thoughtful replies and time.

Click to expand...

Submission in love is an extremely beautiful thing. It is what will make us most attractive to Him, and also what often makes men most attracted to their wives. Only the one who is deserving of it is the one who is self-sacrificing for her.

You are most welcome, and it's always a pleasure discussing the word of God with you. Anytime!

Webers_Home said:

.
● 1Pet 3:7b . . giving honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,

The koiné Greek word for "honor" is time (tee-may') which means: a value,
i.e. money paid.

The word for "weaker" is asthenes (as-then-ace') which means: having no
strength, i.e. fragile.

And the word for "vessel" is skeuos (skyoo'-os) which can indicate anything
from a soup bowl to a file cabinet or a cardboard box; in other words: a
container.

Peter isn't saying women are physically weaker than men; but that Christian
husbands should exercise the same care with their wives as they would a
fragile antique worth thousands of dollars like, say, a Ming vase. Nobody in
their right mind handles a Ming vase like a farmer handles a 5-gallon bucket.
Not that some women couldn't endure that kind of handling; it's just that its
unbecoming for a Christian man to treat his Christian wife as if she has little
more value than a paper cup.

This Ming-vase value isn't an intrinsic value, nor is it a deserved value
either; but rather, it's a gratuitous value. In other words: Christ commands
Christian husbands to categorize their wives up there with Dresden china
even if she's as rugged and tough as a female cop and/or a UFC mixed
martial artist the likes of Rhonda Rousey-- and this is not optional; no, it's
not an option; it's an order.

That said, let me say this: Christian wives could make it a lots easier for
their Christian husbands to comply with Peter's instructions if they would but
avoid the "strong woman" attitude and have nothing to do with it.

● 1Pet 3:4 . . You should be known for the beauty that comes from within,
the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is so precious to God.

● Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of
God.
_

Click to expand...

Wow unbelievable you guys really don't get it do you. I'll chalk it up as probably not ever being married, pure religion in full bloom.

"ByGrace" said:

Excellent post Victory...well said.

The OP is written as if men are born infallible..and have all wisdom.
In our house my husband is good at the things he is good at...but as his helpmeet...I look after all the finances...taxes and such like...as he is the first to say that "it is not his thing"...yet spiritually and emotionally he is my rock and strength in time of trouble...he is a strong prayer partner, and we make our decisions together.

Ecc 4:9-12
9 "Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
11 Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken."

Bless you ...Helen

Click to expand...

Lol, there are things that are simply “not my thing” either. Many disliked my wife where we originally went to church since she wasn’t your original “southern homemaker” who stayed home with kids but has her own business. I am the leader of our marriage but not the dictator, Christ is my head. We know roles and respect our roles.

Webers_Home said:

Christ commands
Christian husbands to categorize their wives up there with Dresden china
even if she's as rugged and tough as a female cop and/or a UFC mixed
martial artist the likes of Rhonda Rousey-- and this is not optional; no, it's
not an option; it's an order.

That said, let me say this: Christian wives could make it a lots easier for
their Christian husbands to comply with Peter's instructions if they would but
avoid the "strong woman" attitude and have nothing to do with it.

● 1Pet 3:4 . . You should be known for the beauty that comes from within,
the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is so precious to God.

● Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of
God.

Click to expand...

Good response! This presentation of your argument is more palatable. Now, let me go back and show you where I think your original post was missing it.

Webers_Home said:

That is probably one of the most hated verses in the whole Bible. Eve's
daughters do not like to be subjugated to and/or dominated by men. It
really goes against their grain; and if the women's suffrage movement that
took place in America's early 1900's were to be thoroughly analyzed, it
would not surprise me that women's right to vote wasn't really an equality
issue: it was a rebellion against male domination; which of course is to be
expected in a world gone mad with evil.

Click to expand...

The reason I took issue with your post as well is because "dominated" is a rather poor choice of words. It brings to mind what Jesus said in Matthew 20:25-28: "Jesus called them together and said, 'You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave — just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Scripture also says this: "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:23-27)

The same parallels exist in these two passages:
"the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." (Matthew)
"even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it" (Ephesians).

So the same principles apply. A Christian husband is not called to "Lord it over" his wife, and the words "subjugate" and "dominate" tend to lend themselves in this direction. Is he supposed to lead? Yes, but in truly leading her he must lead by example, in becoming the greater servant.

So when you use analogies like Dresden china and such, now you are coming more in line with the Biblical model, IMO. Notice how in Ephesians he said, "even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church." Glorious is an honoring term, much like the wording you used in your latest post.

Anyway, just thought I would point out where I took issue.

God bless, and thanks for responding!

soul man said:

We are not talking about salvation. We are talking about men and women over each other when the reality is, niether is over another. You can not separate natural life and spiritual life. The OP is an age old arguement that has no relevance to who we are. Fact of the matter remains if believers could see the Christ in each other (husbands-wives) there would be alot less trouble. Because religion fails to bring the gospel message to its full intent, relationships go lacking and it will continue until it is realized by the believer.

Click to expand...

There is a line of Authority in the Trune Godhead. God the Father is over God the Son who is over God the Spirit, all three are equally God yet there is a chain of command or of responcibility.

In marriage there is the same thing.
Man is the Spiritual head of the marriage with the wife submitting to that authority, yet in marriage the two are equal.

This is not a case of, I'm the head, do as I say!

But of taking resaponcibility for decissions jointly made.

Windmillcharge said:

There is a line of Authority in the Trune Godhead. God the Father is over God the Son who is over God the Spirit, all three are equally God yet there is a chain of command or of responcibility.

In marriage there is the same thing.
Man is the Spiritual head of the marriage with the wife submitting to that authority, yet in marriage the two are equal.

This is not a case of, I'm the head, do as I say!

But of taking resaponcibility for decissions jointly made.

Click to expand...

Windmillcharge said:

There is a line of Authority in the Trune Godhead. God the Father is over God the Son who is over God the Spirit, all three are equally God yet there is a chain of command or of responcibility.

In marriage there is the same thing.
Man is the Spiritual head of the marriage with the wife submitting to that authority, yet in marriage the two are equal.

This is not a case of, I'm the head, do as I say!

But of taking resaponcibility for decissions jointly made.

Click to expand...

Sure I understand the thinking, I just disagree. What happened to Paul giving us scriptures as "if I live it's Christ, if I die it's gain." The only head is Christ. I have counseled numerous couples on the very issue because it is such an issue today. I will admit if believers do not come to see Christ in each other and begin to have their relationship based solely on that fact, working though their differences proves to be most difficult at that point. I'm sharing about a few very extreme cases of deep indoctrination, but it can happen in the simplest of situations as well.

soul man said:

Sure I understand the thinking, I just disagree. What happened to Paul giving us scriptures as "if I live it's Christ, if I die it's gain." The only head is Christ. I have counseled numerous couples on the very issue because it is such an issue today. I will admit if believers do not come to see Christ in each other and begin to have their relationship based solely on that fact, working though their differences proves to be most difficult at that point. I'm sharing about a few very extreme cases of deep indoctrination, but it can happen in the simplest of situations as well.

Click to expand...

Webber has illistrated the situation perfectly and better than I can in reply no 35.

Windmillcharge said:

Webber has illistrated the situation perfectly and better than I can in reply no 35.

Click to expand...

Due respect, psychology has nothing to do with the gospel.

Webers_Home said:

.
Shaunti Feldhahn, author of "For Women Only" relates a survey taken
among segregated groups of men and women with this question:

Given a choice; would you rather be disrespected, or would you rather be
alone and unloved?

The majority of the ladies chose to be disrespected rather than alone and
unloved, while the majority of the men chose to be alone and unloved rather
than disrespected. Wives unaware of how important respect is to the
average guy, have no trouble making their marriages a living hell.

● Eph 5:33b . . The wife must respect her husband.

Wives don't especially have to like their husbands in order to respect them.
A show of respect will do in lieu of felt respect. In other words: the strong
Christian wife would do well to stifle the disgust she feels for her husband
and be civil.

I overheard a female caller on radio imperiously announcing to Dr. Laura
that she couldn't respect her husband. So Dr. Laura asked why. The caller
responded: Because he hasn't earned my respect. So Laura asked the caller:
Have you earned your husband's love? The caller retorted: I don't have to
earn his love. It's a husband's duty to love his wife just as she is.

So Laura pointed out that the caller was practicing a double standard. She
demanded that her husband love her unconditionally, while refusing to
respect him unconditionally. And on top of that; had the despotic chutzpah
to dictate the rules of engagement regardless of how her husband might feel
about it.

A woman strong in the ways of heaven will respect her husband in spite of
his faults; while a woman strong in the ways of the world takes pleasure in
pointing them out.
_

Click to expand...

The Caller Sounds Like My Sister in Law.

Webers_Home said:

That is probably one of the most hated verses in the whole Bible. Eve's
daughters do not like to be subjugated to and/or dominated by men. It
really goes against their grain; and if the women's suffrage movement that
took place in America's early 1900's were to be thoroughly analyzed, it
would not surprise me that women's right to vote wasn't really an equality
issue: it was a rebellion against male domination; which of course is to be
expected in a world gone mad with evil.

Click to expand...

Do you see what this guy is saying? Women should not have rights or be able to vote, this is outrageous! And yet you are discussing women's role in the Bible with him as if he is sane and not backwards and crazy for wanting to take women back over a hundred and more years of progress in women's rights. Do you know this is the 21st century and women have jobs and careers, we don't all wanted to get married and become submissive housewives bare foot pregnant in the kitchen. What about Christian women who are not married and don't want to get married? This is why the Catholic church invented nuns, so we could serve only god and not put up with husbands who beat and rape women every day and night of their lives. Go and study history, how horribly women have been treated, and no, we did not deserve it because of Eve! Study your Bible more carefully. For one thing, Jesus loves women. He had several women followers who became leaders in the church. Three women went to his tomb to annoint his body on Easter Sunday while his male diciples cowardly hid in fear.