3d/3n is NOT an idiom!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,140
558
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
after waving it, what did they do with the firstfruits? They burnt it as a sacrifice.

Scripture?
No Scripture!
What happened with Joseph after Pharaoh exalted him? He interceded on behalf of his people before him.
Jesus was taken up into heaven on the Right Hand of the Throne of God to be Intercessor on behalf of all living saints on earth until He shall come again.
 
Last edited:

rstrats

Member
Sep 6, 2012
370
17
18
FHll,
re: "I stand by what I said. 3 Days and 3 nights is not an idiom. Jesus died on Wednesday and resurrected sometime before the first day of the week started (what we call Saturday, 6 PM)."

So you're saying that a day and a night means 24 hours, but all 24 hours don't have to occur within the same calendar day?
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
FHll,
re: "I stand by what I said. 3 Days and 3 nights is not an idiom. Jesus died on Wednesday and resurrected sometime before the first day of the week started (what we call Saturday, 6 PM)."

So you're saying that a day and a night means 24 hours, but all 24 hours don't have to occur within the same calendar day?
I am agreeing with what the Rabbi said. 3 days and 3 nights is wiewed as 72 hours.

If you go back and read what he wrote, we aren't talking about an idiom here since days and nights are included. So any partiality of Wednesday is not included in 3 days and 3 nights.
 
Last edited:

rstrats

Member
Sep 6, 2012
370
17
18
FHll,
re: "...any partiality of Wednesday is not included in 3 days and 3 nights."

Then any part of the Sabbath would not be included because your said that the Messiah was resurrected sometime before the first day of the week which started at 6pm.
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
FHll,
re: "...any partiality of Wednesday is not included in 3 days and 3 nights."

Then any part of the Sabbath would not be included because your said that the Messiah was resurrected sometime before the first day of the week which started at 6pm.
The Sabbath isn't the first day of the week.
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
FHII,
re: "The Sabbath isn't the first day of the week."

Who said that it was?
I assume that's what you are implying because Mat 28:1-2 does actually say Jesus rose before the Sabbath ended and the 1st day of the week started.

It later occurred to me that you may have meant something else. It may have been you didn't believe saturday shouldn't count either since it is possible that Jesus may have risen before the day ended. If so... Ok.

First off, this thread is about whether 3 days/ nights is a Hebrew idiom. Its not according to a Hebrew. The same man detailed how a Hebrew would look at the situation. Accordin to him, Wednesday doesn't count. Saturday does count. Why? The article doesn't go into that. Perhaps its mere common sense. Perhaps Wednesday doesn't count because he was buried probably within an hour before sunset. Same with Saturday...

But I don't want to put words in his mouth.

Let's look at this from the Bible. How long did Jesus say he would be in the heart of the earth? 3 days and 3 nights. (Mat 12:40). When did he say he would ressurrect? The 3rd day. (Mat 16:21, 17:23, 20:19).

When was the sepulcher opened? According to Mat 28:2 at the end of the Sabbath or beginning of the 1st day. That means at least the tomb was sealed a full 72 hours.

Thus, Jesus did what he said. He was in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights and rose on the 3rd day.

If you don't think the timeline is right, fine. Let me know what yours is. But if you include the notion that 3 days/nights is a hebrew idiom, then you have the problem of at least one rabbi saying it isn't. You either have to say the Rabbi doesn't believe what he says he believes or you have to find some way to get 72 hours in between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning.
 

rstrats

Member
Sep 6, 2012
370
17
18
FHll,
re: "It later occurred to me that you may have meant something else. It may have been you didn't believe saturday shouldn't count either since it is possible that Jesus may have risen before the day ended.

Yes, that is what I was getting at if you change "shouldn't" to "should". Logically if a portion of the 4th calendar day of the week shouldn't be counted then a portion of the 7th calendar day of the week also shouldn't be counted.
 

rstrats

Member
Sep 6, 2012
370
17
18
FHll,
re: "Let's look at this from the Bible. How long did Jesus say he would be in the heart of the earth? 3 days and 3 nights. (Mat 12:40). When did he say he would ressurrect? The 3rd day. (Mat 16:21, 17:23, 20:19)."

He also said that it would be after 3 days (Mark 8:31). So "the 3rd day" must be referring to the 3rd day after the crucifixion. This is also in line with Luke 24:21.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,140
558
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
He also said that it would be after 3 days (Mark 8:31). So "the 3rd day" must be referring to the 3rd day after the crucifixion. This is also in line with Luke 24:21.
Mark 8:31 and Luke 24:21 have nothing in common and have nothing to do with one another as far as the meaning of the words "after three days" and "today is the third day since" is concerned. Stop to be ridiculous! For how many YEARS now have you been carrying on like this chasing your own tail making no progress?
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,140
558
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
we aren't talking about an idiom here since days and nights are included. So any partiality of Wednesday is not included in 3 days and 3 nights.

Correct, no part of the Fourth Day of the week is included in the "three days and three nights" specifically BECAUSE the "three days and three nights" are THE "three days and three nights" of the "three days" in all the Prophets including Jesus' own prophecy, "on the third day" of which God raised Christ up from the dead again.

So yes, that means '~3 Days and 3 nights is not an idiom~'.
But that means "after three days" is an idiom, because Scripture declares that Jesus, literally rose "on the third day", "in three days", "the third day".
Literally, "after three days" therefore would have meant that Jesus could not have had resurrected "on the third day" but must have resurrected "after", "the third day", "after", "three days", "after", "on the third day", on the fourth day! Or fifth day because He supposedly died the day before the day on which He was buried.
Babel! But "God is God-of-Order"!
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
FHll,
re: "It later occurred to me that you may have meant something else. It may have been you didn't believe saturday shouldn't count either since it is possible that Jesus may have risen before the day ended.

Yes, that is what I was getting at if you change "shouldn't" to "should". Logically if a portion of the 4th calendar day of the week shouldn't be counted then a portion of the 7th calendar day of the week also shouldn't be counted.

I agree with you logic, but it doesnt matter what we think is logical. Let me eloborate:

In discussions and debates on the passion week timeline, those that belief in the traditional Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection often state: "Its common knowledge that 3 days and 3 nights is a well known Hebrew idiom". I have heard that from members on this board, debates on other boards going back at least 15 years and even John Calvin and Martin Luther claimed that.

I was never satisfied with that claim. I have never seen proof of that being a well known idiom. Certainly not in the Bible. I have heard that Josephus used it as an idiom, but haven't examined that particular text myself.

If it is an idiom, then the traditional belief might be right. It doesn't peove the point, but it allows an opening. But if its not an idiom, then it completely destroys the traditional timeline (that of a Friday crucifixion and Sunday ressurection).

My main objective in this thread is to discuss whether it is an Hebrew idiom or not. The main objective is not to debate the timeline of rhe passuon week. That is a secondary objective.

I stress again: is it a hebrew idiom? Well, based on how the hebrews see a fast: it is not. Second, based on the testimony of this Rabbi: it is not.

It really doesn't matter what we think of their beliefs or how they see idioms. Jesus was speaking as a Jew/Hebrew to Jews and hebrews. So, in figuring out what he meant, we must follow their rules of language.

So getting away drom the timeline ddebate just for a moment, do you have any proof that 3 days and 3 nights is an idiom? If so, why is this Rabbi wrong when he says its not an idiom?

Getting back to the timeline issue, he also feels that Wednesday doesn't count but Saturday does. Thus, I tend to believe thats how the Jews see it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
FHll,
re: "Let's look at this from the Bible. How long did Jesus say he would be in the heart of the earth? 3 days and 3 nights. (Mat 12:40). When did he say he would ressurrect? The 3rd day. (Mat 16:21, 17:23, 20:19)."

He also said that it would be after 3 days (Mark 8:31). So "the 3rd day" must be referring to the 3rd day after the crucifixion. This is also in line with Luke 24:21.


So when is the third day after the crucifixion?

I have made an error in understanding your point once before and do not wish to do so again. So I want to be sure of what you are saying before I respond too much.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,140
558
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Perhaps Wednesday doesn't count because he was buried probably within an hour before sunset.

No, Wednesday doesn't count because Jesus was not Crucified before the Fifth Day of the week ('Thursday'). Wednesday was "two days before the days of ulb" Mark 14:1 began "evening having come the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" ('Friday') and "Joseph came there" and undertook to bury the body of Jesus Mark 15:42-47 Matthew 27:57-61 John 19:31-40 Luke 23:50-53a, and "rolled a stone before the grave and went home" Matthew 27:60 "due to the preparations of the Jews" for the Sabbath. John 19:41,42 "mid-afternoon That Day the Preparation because of the approaching Sabbath and the Marys went home and prepared spices and ointments" Luke 23:54-56a three hours before sunset.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2014
6,140
558
113
Johannesburg
www.biblestudents.co.za
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
That means at least the tomb was sealed a full 72 hours.
If that were the case the BODY had to have been buried '~a full 72 hours~'. And that would have meant three days and three nights buried in the grave in the earth. And that would have meant 'in the earth' or 'in the grave' literally and physically / bodily and not "in the HEART of the earth", not psychic or spiritually, alive, willing and OBEDIENT suffering of SOUL AND LIVING BEING OF JESUS CHRIST on or for even one of those "three days".
 
Last edited:

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, Wednesday doesn't count because Jesus was not Crucified before the Fifth Day of the week ('Thursday'). Wednesday was "two days before the days of ulb" Mark 14:1 began


Once again, I am having a hard tome even following your thought process.

mark 14:1 happened on either Monday or Tuesday. Much of our discussion (including the phrase 3 days and 3 nights) comes from Matthew. So its better to stay with Matthew's account.

Mark 14:1 coincides with Mat 26:2-4.

Matthew 26:2 KJV
Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Jesus was saying passover is two days away... In the future. That passover was Thursday. Thus, Matt 26:2 as well as Mark 14:1 were either Monday or Tuesday.
 

rstrats

Member
Sep 6, 2012
370
17
18
FHII,
re: "So when is the third day after the crucifixion?"

Well the day after the crucifixion would be the 1st day after the crucifixion, the next day after that would be the 2nd day after the crucifixion, and the day after that would be the 3rd day after the crucifixion.
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
FHII,
re: "So when is the third day after the crucifixion?"

Well the day after the crucifixion would be the 1st day after the crucifixion, the next day after that would be the 2nd day after the crucifixion, and the day after that would be the 3rd day after the crucifixion.
Ok... Thanks.