Jesus never said he was God Almighty

Enoch111 said:

Why would Christ say something which was so obvious that there would be no need to say it? There is the Lord -- in person -- sitting with His apostles at the Last Supper and calling bread His body and the fruit of the vine His blood. So it was purely symbolic and everyone understood that.

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everyone there--including the Apostles--were evincing "not understanding" all over the place, so imo you have to produce an account--even a single one--that shows "understanding," and i'm pretty sure you cannot. The Son of Man made a literal statement and it does not fit with your perception so you decide to not hear Him literally, is what is going on there.

If everyone there had understood "symbolic" then we would not have
"many turned back at that point" and "this is a hard teaching; who can accept it?"

so once again even logic is not producing a logical outcome, see

amadeus said:

I did not? Hmmm, you really do think you know a lot. What is it you have done to know so much?
"... According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29

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Do you claim receiving tongues that comes with no interpretation when you had received what you had believed was the Holy Spirit apart from salvation or not?

Do not others ( holy rollers ) also claim to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation by falling down and other acts of confusion again and again and again?

Our faith is the Jesus Christ is in us; 2 Corinthians 13:5

The tradition taught of us as to when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth was at the calling of the gospel ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 )

To preach to receive Jesus again or receive another spirit, thinking it is the Holy Spirit, is the same thing as preaching another gospel as believers are led astray by moving away from their rest and faith in Jesus Christ to do another work which is denying Him as in us when you had first believed. 2 Corinthians 11:1-4

That other calling is hardly keeping the gospel simple as it is moving believers away from the simplicity of the gospel.

bbyrd009 said:

If everyone there had understood "symbolic" then we would not have
"many turned back at that point" and "this is a hard teaching; who can accept it?"

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This was long before the Last Supper. No connection at all.

bbyrd009 said:

i guess i didn't mean that the way you took it, my apologies

ya, no, def not what i meant. Imo pls take the other one personally, the Ordained Ppl telling you that Jesus said to drink His Blood, get offended at that lie if you want, the other i did not mean for you personally

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Lol-I did NOT take it that way @bbyrd009 , And my reply was not with you in mind...I was reffering to Christ. I'm not offended at all.

@JesusIsFaithful
Ref tongues.
I usually "like" and agree with most of what you write...I still find it sad that you have bought into this one blinkered view. Your loss.

You are already convinced, so I will leave this subject...and 'cheer you on' , in some other subjects and threads.

“A man with an experience in God, is never at the mercy of a man with only an argument.”

Bless you...H

Nancy said:

It would make no sense if the bread became His sacrificial body. Common sense I would think.

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to you perhaps, but to others that is heresy right. So then i guess you don't Transubstantiate, but you still
26Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets!'

participate in Ritual Communion, and i don't mean to denigrate this either ok, you do it bc you honestly believe that is the right thing to do, i'm sure. Imo read Luke 13 and decide for yourself who is being described there, that believes they were doing the right thing, and at least do it from conviction if you think you can, for your own sake

Enoch111 said:

This was long before the Last Supper. No connection at all.

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ok if that works for you then go with that then. I am not here to insist that they are the exact same subject, or postulate some Law that you must follow.

52At that, the Jews arguedbt among themselves,bu “How can this man give us His flesh to eat? ”

53So Jesus said to them, “I assure you: Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Manbv and drink His blood,bwyou do not have life in yourselves.
54Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks My bloodbx has eternal life, and Iwill raiseby him up on the last day,
55because My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink.
56The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood lives in Me, and I in him.bz
57Just as the livingca Father sent Me and I livebecause of the Father, so the one who feeds on Me will livecb because of Me.
58This is the bread that came down from heaven; it is not like the mannacc your fathers ate — and they died. The one who eats this breadwill live forever.”cd

59He said these things while teaching in the •synagoguece in Capernaum.cf

Many Disciples Desert Jesus

60Therefore, when many of His disciples heard this, they said, “This teaching is hard! Who can acceptcg it? ”

so then, no connection at all, and everyone understood "symbolic."

"ByGrace" said:

@JesusIsFaithful
Ref tongues.
I usually "like" and agree with most of what you write...I still find it sad that you have bought into this one blinkered view. Your loss.

You are already convinced, so I will leave this subject...and 'cheer you on' , in some other subjects and threads.

“A man with an experience in God, is never at the mercy of a man with only an argument.”

Bless you...H

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I once made a covenant with my mouth to stop cussing. The day after, I was worse than I ever was before. A thought in my head said "You are not His! If you were His, He would have helped you keep your covenant." I stopped listening to the "devil" but I was at my wits end and so I prayed to God asking why He was not helping me. He answered; not in an audible way, but I heard Him inside saying, "You made the covenant. You said you were going to do it. I made the Covenant with you and I said I am going to do it. All I ask from you is to believe in Me". I was humbled that day, but as the Bible instructs, we are to test the spirits. He led me to His words which backed what He has told me. Jesus warned not to make oaths that are His to keep or finish in verse 36 of Matthew 5:33-37 in the KJV. The CEV completely changed that message. Anyway Ecclesiastes 5:4-5 says a vow is a man's work for why believers should not be hasty in making vows as Numbers 30:2 explains that God requires a man to do all that is in his mouth. So Galatians 5:1 has me asking Jesus to set me free from that covenant with my mouth, all pledges of giving, all promises to God about tomorrow, and my commitment to Him in making Him Lord of my life by doing the best I can to rest in Him all the time as my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him.

Now.. if I had believed the first voice ... what would have become of me?

Then in that same year in 1994, the Lord warned me in a Daily Bread or an Upper room daily reading by this closing saying at the bottom of the article; Decide this day whom you will serve, the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name." There was a sense of urgency from Him to make that decision and so I said out loud, "You, of course,' but that sense of urgency remained and so I prayed out loud, "Please help me to do this". And I received His peace. Next week, visiting my aunt in Missouri with my folks, her community church was confronted with the holy laughter movement just prior. I had experienced an unseen hand pushing me to seemingly go forward, and when nothing really happened when praying for healing of me deaf ear and my tinnitus in my right ear, I stormed out. Then He led me to a newsletter by David Wilkerson about the role of the Holy Spirit and it was then that the Lord was edifying me in giving me lines of discernment that what I had experienced outside of me in feeling an unseen hand pushed me forward, was the spirit of the antichrist. Only one person laughed that Sunday, but that church had shown a video of what had happened that last Sunday where a guest speaker was having trouble giving his sermon of the tragedy of Samson and Delilah by smirking and giggling and then he just could not stop and called everybody forward in saying he did not know what the Holy Spirit was doing and people came forward and began falling down laughing uncontrollably. 700 Club announced that the holy laughter movement was across the denomination as it was no longer a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event, but happening in Catholic and other Protestant churches.

From this the Lord led me by His words that the reason it was going across the denomination as this was a fruit of a false prophet was how it was gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles was because they had broaden the way in the worship place to include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son wherein sometimes the focus is on the Holy Spirit even in a few of their hymnals. That was how seducing spirits came in when their eyes were off of the Son to feeling the presence of what they believe was the Holy Spirit by that visitation of the senses whereby they sought those spirits again.

David Wilkerson had commented on how thrill seekers were disappointed in how there were no signs and wonders there when I was reading about hm online, but no wonder they were coming to his church for that. He spoke of the same rudiment of calling for the Holy spirit to come to just feeling His Presence in the worship place where any spirit outside of our bodies is the spirit of the antichrist.

The Lord led me to serve the Lord Jesus Christ and nothing else in His name. I could have made being pushed 3 times from behind as some thing to glory in but for what other than to promote that other calling and to glory in that glory of that movement.

I have seen tongue speakers address that same rudiment by how they got that tongue. My former neighbor across the street was reading her Bible at her kitchen table one day when she said the Holy Spirit came over her and she spoke in tongues. Then she said that was when she was saved because she got the Holy Spirit and tongues all at once. I had asked her what she had read that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant. Then she guessed it and went on to explain how she went to her pastor and asked why this had happened when she had been a believer all her life. The pastor pointed to the Book of Acts and said that was what had happened. She did refer to Lakeside church when this had occurred. At any rate, she changed her testimony by that phenomenon for when she was saved since she had been a believer for most of her life.

By that kind of testimony, she is misleading believers into thinking they do not have the Holy Spirit yet until they spoke in tongues, and so they will doubt they are saved for simply believing in Him.

Joyce Meyers had a similar experience but testified that it was a sign that God was calling her into the ministry.

Some go on to explain what that second phenomenon was; and one pastor was telling me about a book that says there are 3 baptisms of the Holy Spirit, and then that pastor went on to say he believes there is five, personally. Then his daughter was explaining her exasperation with her dad when she testified that he had a solitary room painted blue where believers can go to from all distractions from the outer world to receive the Holy Spirit. That is new age, in case you haven't noticed.

So how can all of those spirits be tested, when so many tongue speakers preach receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation by a sign of tongues and yet this receiving of the spirit does not stop there? By keeping the faith in Jesus Christ that there is no receiving the Holy Spirit again because there is no receiving Jesus Christ again. The warning in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 is attached to the examination of our faith in 2 Corinthians 13:5.

We are called to be witnesses of the Son in seeking His glory as led by the Spirit of God in us to do. ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14 ) The only way to honor the Father in worship and fellowship and prayer is by honoring the Son ( John 5:22-23 ); not the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is sent to lead us to honor the Son by testifying of Him in seeking the glory of the Son and by Him, the glory of God the Father. ( John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-13 ) There is no way in coming to God the Father in worship other than by way of the Son ( John 14:6 ) and Jesus meant it because there are other spirits in the world for why all invitations to come to the Father is by the only way of the Son in all things.

So I know that what you are experiencing is real, but you are not realizing that you are serving something else in His name when you do that when that kind of tongue is always associated with departing from faith in seeking to receive Him again by a sign of tongue and as others do by other signs.

You do not need tongues to pray to Him. The Holy Spirit does not need tongues to make His unspeakable intercessions known to the Father.

You do not need tongues for edification when you have the written word of the KJV available for your edification.

You do not need tongues for worship when it is better to know you are worshiping Him.

You do not need tongues to thank Him when you do not know if you are doing that at all when it comes with no interpretation. Would it not be more pleasing to the Father when YOU thank Him and know that You thank Him rather than thinking that the Holy Spirit is doing it for you ( which He is not )

The Lord wants YOU to pray. The Lord does not need the Holy Spirit to turn His gift of tongues around to pray for you in that way in nonsense.

Is that not a better message of love that all believers can receive in knowing they can't get closer to God by any other way than just praying to Him?

So the Lord had to help me to serve Him and not something else in His name; to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ & not the gospel of holy laughter.

I pray that the Lord will help you to serve Him and nothing else in His name; to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ & not the gospel of praying tongues.

bbyrd009 said:

to you perhaps, but to others that is heresy right. So then i guess you don't Transubstantiate, but you still
26Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets!'

participate in Ritual Communion, and i don't mean to denigrate this either ok, you do it bc you honestly believe that is the right thing to do, i'm sure. Imo read Luke 13 and decide for yourself who is being described there, that believes they were doing the right thing, and at least do it from conviction if you think you can, for your own sake

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And, you Transubstantiate bc you honestly believe that is the right thing to do...My belief in this is solid. You believe that you are "doing the right thing" So do I. Only God can be our Judge, especially when things are not always crystal clear. Did you ever stop to think that just maybe you could be wrong?

Nancy said:

And, you Transubstantiate bc you honestly believe that is the right thing to do

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ha no, i was referring to Catholics, etc, sry

the pertinent part for you should be at the bottom of the post, not the top?

bbyrd009 said:

ha no, i was referring to Catholics, etc, sry

the pertinent part for you should be at the bottom of the post, not the top?

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Are you presuming that I am among "...depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."? I'm not sure where you are going with Luke 13..

JesusIsFaithful said:

Testing the spirits and the tongues they bring so you are not speaking like the world speaks is towards the fear of the Lord. 1 John 4:1-6

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Yes, we must test the spirits. But you are ignorant with regards to the verse you are using. Read the criteria in the verse. It is not what you claim to be about speaking in tongues, which no man understands.

This is natural speaking and hearing. It has always been on WHAT they say, not how they say it.

1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

1 Corinthians 14:29-33
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

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Be careful, for you are twisting scripture to say what YOU want it to mean. That is what a false prophet does. So test the spirit within yourself, and make sure you humble yourself and only want to repeat the clear teaching of the Word of God, and more importantly, only say what the Author means. Do not abide a dishonorable spirit. You are messing with the Word of God, and He will not be mocked.

bbyrd009 said:

wadr if "i don't think you can Quote 'Holy Bible' except in English" makes no sense to you then it's prolly better if we don't talk anyway, might even be a sign, God warning you or something, protecting you maybe. No sin in that i guess

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Okay, I translate what you just wrote to say "What if "I don't think you can quote 'Holy Bible' except in English" makes no sense to you, then it's probably better if we don't talk anyway, might even be a sign, God warning you or something, protecting you maybe. No sin in that I guess.

If Jesus is not God we are all Jewish heretics

Nancy said:

Are you presuming that I am among "...depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity."? I'm not sure where you are going with Luke 13..

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no, communion is only referred to in passing there, but it is a strange ref imo

JesusIsFaithful said:

I believe everyone knows that unbelievers used in 1 Corinthians 14:22 is referring to those who do not believe in Jesus Christ

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You took that out of context. And, no, not everyone does that - only those with an agenda. Verse 22 MUST be understood by verse 23 which shows clearly two types of individuals - those who don't believe in Christ, and those who are uninformed about what they are hearing. Seeing as the subject is tongues, then tongues is what they are uninformed about. This second group, may actually believe in God, but are not aware of the gifts of the Spirit. It is so unusual and mind-boggling, they will think the speakers are crazy. Especially a WHOLE ROOM FULL OF THEM, as "if ALL speak in tongues (at the same time.) That is out of order, and we are admonished to not let one of those two groups hear us doing that, which is why I said, I would never speak in tongues in front of you. It is out of love for them. But that doesn't mean that on a Wednesday night service, where all are believers, we cannot lift up holy praise to God as a choir to Him, as they did on the Day of Pentecost (120 people). It is ONLY against us making a brother or unbeliever fall, that we are admonished to not use the "sign" of tongues (our prayer and praise language) in front of unbelievers, and only use the "gift" of tongues in front of them, with interpretation, and then limit it to 2 or 3. The reason? LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!

JesusIsFaithful said:

yet for why tongues as a sign is a witness towards in hearing the gospel in their native tongue as prophesied in 1 Corinthians 14:21.

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That is YOUR interpretation from an uninformed stance. Verse 21 is actually a verse about judgment. A negative. It prophesied the rejection of Christ by the majority of Jews, where the gospel went to the Gentiles of other tongues, and not about speaking in tongues directly. It is connected to verses 22 and 23 showing the type of sign that our prayer and praise language is. "A sign which will be spoken against." The same dual type of sign that is Christ. Positive to believers; negative to unbelievers. Tongues was never made by God to be naturally understood for preaching the gospel. There is not one example in the NT alluding to that, so it is a real twist of scripture to come up with that. But you are not alone. John MacArthur teaches the same uninformed teaching. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!

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1stCenturyLady said:

Yes, we must test the spirits. But you are ignorant with regards to the verse you are using. Read the criteria in the verse. It is not what you claim to be about speaking in tongues, which no man understands.

This is natural speaking and hearing. It has always been on WHAT they say, not how they say it.

1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

1 Corinthians 14:29-33
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

---
Be careful, for you are twisting scripture to say what YOU want it to mean. That is what a false prophet does. So test the spirit within yourself, and make sure you humble yourself and only want to repeat the clear teaching of the Word of God, and more importantly, only say what the Author means. Do not abide a dishonorable spirit. You are messing with the Word of God, and He will not be mocked.

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Combining 1 Corinthians 14:29-33 to be applied to the same meaning in 1 John 4:1-6 is not valid any more than what most Biblical scholars contends that 1 John 4:2-3 is about the heresy of denying that Jesus Christ had ever come in the flesh.

The phrase "is come" is how the apostle John is referring to this testing of the spirits as presently where Jesus Christ is.. which is by dwelling in us.

The apostle John is testifying to how to test the spirits by where the Spirit of Christ is presently..and that is in us as in our flesh. Those who do not confess this are being false prophets to testifying to that spirit as being not in us but outside of us in the world as being felt outside of us as well as feeling a spirit coming over us, thinking that it is the Holy Spirit when it is not. The apostle John is referring 1 John 4:4 in testing the spirits to the examination of our faith in Jesus Christ as given by Paul in 2 Corinthians 13:5 that Jesus Christ dwells in us.

1 John 4:4 is how you draw the line of discernment in testing the spirits by confessing where the Spirit of Christ has been and still is as in us so that when any spirit comes over a believer apart from salvation, they will know that is NOT the Holy Spirit when He is already in us in according to our faith and the traditions taught of us in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

1 John 4:5-6 is the apostle John referring to how we speak by the Spirit of Truth as we hear and understand the Truth as opposed to the spirit of error in how the world speaks per receiving spirits in the world after a sign which includes speaking in tongues without interpretation as vain & profane babbling. You can search the internet for ecstatic tongues found in heathen religion. That is how the world has been speaking by spirits before Pentecost as Isaiah 8:19 confirms that kind of tongues in the occult.

2 Corinthians 11:1-4 reproves any notion that a believer can preach to receive Jesus or the Holy Spirit again without being seen as preaching another gospel.

As for your use of 1 Corinthians 14:29-33, scripture requires two or three witnesses to establish a testimony ( Deuteronomy 19:15 & Deuteronomy 17:6 & 2 Corinthians 13:1 & Matthew 18:16 ) so how can God establish any testimony to yourself by a private tongue which comes with no interpretation wherein Paul admits as a tongue speaker that the tongue is unfruitful even to himself unless it was interpreted by another?

1stCenturyLady said:

You took that out of context. And, no, not everyone does that - only those with an agenda. Verse 22 MUST be understood by verse 23 which shows clearly two types of individuals - those who don't believe in Christ, and those who are uninformed about what they are hearing. Seeing as the subject is tongues, then tongues is what they are uninformed about. This second group, may actually believe in God, but are not aware of the gifts of the Spirit. It is so unusual and mind-boggling, they will think the speakers are crazy. Especially a WHOLE ROOM FULL OF THEM, as "if ALL speak in tongues (at the same time.) That is out of order, and we are admonished to not let one of those two groups hear us doing that, which is why I said, I would never speak in tongues in front of you. It is out of love for them. But that doesn't mean that on a Wednesday night service, where all are believers, we cannot lift up holy praise to God as a choir to Him, as they did on the Day of Pentecost (120 people). It is ONLY against us making a brother or unbeliever fall, that we are admonished to not use the "sign" of tongues (our prayer and praise language) in front of unbelievers, and only use the "gift" of tongues in front of them, with interpretation, and then limit it to 2 or 3. The reason? LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!



That is YOUR interpretation from an uninformed stance. Verse 21 is actually a verse about judgment. A negative. It prophesied the rejection of Christ by the majority of Jews, where the gospel went to the Gentiles of other tongues, and not about speaking in tongues directly. It is connected to verses 22 and 23 showing the type of sign that our prayer and praise language is. "A sign which will be spoken against." The same dual type of sign that is Christ. Positive to believers; negative to unbelievers. Tongues was never made by God to be naturally understood for preaching the gospel. There is not one example in the NT alluding to that, so it is a real twist of scripture to come up with that. But you are not alone. John MacArthur teaches the same uninformed teaching. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!

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The only message you are giving in context is another gospel by receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation by a sign of that kind of tongue which comes with no interpretation.

That is NOT preaching the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and neither is that serving Him in seeking His glory.

If I spoke and prayed in tongues gained by receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, that glorifies me because I have something none of the other average believers have. I would glory in that I had another drink of the One Spirit thus departing from the shared testimony we all supposed to have in 1 Corinthians 12:13. It doesn't matter if I do not openly exalt myself, because I am, just by saying I pray in tongues gained by receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation from what all regular born again believers DO NOT have.

That is the context of your gospel of tongues that you are overlooking... claiming others are not quite complete in Christ when they were saved.

Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

To seek to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation by a sign of tongues is after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ, and is denying the testimony above of your completeness in Him since you were saved.

You are saved FYI, but you are not preaching Jesus Christ & Him crucified; you are preaching another gospel; a gospel of tongues by another spirit.