Calvary Denied It Entrance Into The New Covenant (so how did it get past the door?)

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TheHolyBookEnds

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We stand righteous before the Father BECAUSE of Christ living IN us. Christ IS the fulfillment of the law=we too (Christians) stand righteous before God. Did you not know that the letter of the Law kills? Did not Paul say in Romans 8:7-9 " What then shall we say? Is the Law sin? By no means! Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the Law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the Law had not said, “Do not covet.” 8 Butsin, seizing its opportunity through thecommandment, produced in me every kindof covetous desire. For apart from the Law,sin is dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died....
Sister, the letter without the Spirit kills. The Spirit makes alive, and makes it possible to obey Him in all the Commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.​

Hence the difference in ministrations, and glories, not difference of the Law (Ten Commandments).

Why?

The Law (Ten Commandments) are spiritual.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
It is the carnal mind, without the Holy Ghost, that cannot obey:

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.​
 

Nancy

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Sister, the letter without the Spirit kills. The Spirit makes alive, and makes it possible to obey Him in all the Commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.​

Hence the difference in ministrations, and glories, not difference of the Law (Ten Commandments).

Why?

The Law (Ten Commandments) are spiritual.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
It is the carnal mind, without the Holy Ghost, that cannot obey:

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.​
Yes, HBE-I understand all of that, I am just trying to contrast Law vs Grace..simple.
God Bless
 

soul man

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First, a few things about Covenants:

I.
"Covenant" and "Testament" are interchangeable in Scripture. They mean simply "an agreement between two parties based on mutual promises".

II. According to Hebrews 9:16-17 KJV, no one can change another's Last Will and Testament once they're dead.

III. According to Galatians 3:15 KJV, if when even a covenant of a mere man is "confirmed" ("caused to take effect") it is prohibited from being changed, the same prohibition must apply to any confirmed covenant of God.
IV. According to Hebrews 9:15-18 KJV, the Old Covenant was confirmed with the blood of sacrificial animals by Moses and the New Covenant was dedicated (confirmed) by the blood of Jesus the moment died on Calvary.

V. According to Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV and 2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV, the "Ten Commandments" and "blessings of God" were "components" of the Old Covenant, to which each respective party mutually agreed to obligate themselves.

The Ten Commandments and the "Old Covenant" are not one in the same as popularly taught, and if you disagree, please substitute the words "Old Covenant" for the word "Law" in Romans 3:31 KJV and see how well that works. I
n the Old Covenant, the Law was written in stone, and in the New Covenant, the same is written by the Holy Spirit on the heart.​

Therefore, since in the New Covenant consists of the Ten Commandments written on the heart, and since the New Covenant was confirmed the moment Jesus died on the Cross, and since the different components of the New Covenant (like baptism, Communion, laity priesthood, etc.) had to have been "penciled in" before it was confirmed, after which nothing could be added......................

when did Sunday-keeping being? Even if it was Resurrection morning, it was 3 days too late. The Ten Commandments are clear as to which day is the Lord's day...the one the Creator set aside all the way back in Creation Week. And the Roman Catholic Church gets the credit or blame, depending on how you look at it, for letting Sunday slip past the door, but the Bible says, what "He shall shut...none shall open".


The OT (former old covenant) was not written to you. Christians have claimed all of it to be theirs, it doesn't fit Gentiles especially now the cross makes it possible to be born again.
 
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Nancy

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The OT (former old covenant) was not written to you. Christians have claimed all of it to be theirs, it doesn't fit Gentiles especially now the cross makes it possible to be born again.

Ah but all that history!n And prophecies of the coming Messiah...not to mention,
try doing a study of Revelation without these other books: Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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Did God still answer the High Priest by Urim and Thummun? No, only in the theocracy did that happen. The Pharisees were the absolute last people who desired to be directly accountable to God in a theocracy. They themselves claimed "We have no king but Caesar". That's why Sabbath-breakers were not stoned to at the time of Jesus, nor in our day, as well.

But you have Jesus as your King, yes? You certainly do not choose Caesar as your king. So how does that work for christians not stoning to death christians that are NOT sabbath day keepers?

Obedience is not work if your motive is love for Jesus - only when your motive is earning salvation, which is impossible.


The text is absolutely clear that "he that hath entered into His rest, he hath ceased from his own works as God did from His." To interpret this as anything but saying if you are resting inwardly in Jesus, you'll rest outwardly every Sabbath day is just nonsensical.


That is a very presumptuous statement to make and is an indictment of Jesus Himself, for it is He Who said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." I could accuse you of having no love for Jesus by your refusal to obey Him, but I won't because I don't want to make presumptuous statements like that.


Why do people who refuse to obey Jesus always accuse others who are willing to do so as attempting to obtain justification by works? Jesus said those who obey are "unprofitable servants"...and that He will say to them that refuse to obey that He never knew them.

The Jews kept the Ten Commandments to get into Heaven.

Jesus Christ has saved us for why He is Lord of the sabbath which explains why we can rest in Him from keeping the sabbath day because He justifies us for profaning the sabbath day by dwelling in us. We have obtained salvation by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead.

You can runaround to all the other scriptures in the Bible, but until you address the meaning of His message in Matthew 12:1-7, you are denying His words why and how under the New Covenant, you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day as His disciples were.. because Jesus is with them & you.
 
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soul man

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Ah but all that history!n And prophecies of the coming Messiah...not to mention,
try doing a study of Revelation without these other books: Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel.

That is correct all history we can use for life application but no message as a people, we are new creations with our own message. You would be better suited to stay out of revelations.
 
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Nancy

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That is correct all history we can use for life application but no message as a people, we are new creations with our own message. You would be better suited to stay out of revelations.

Really? Well, this new creation prefer
That is correct all history we can use for life application but no message as a people, we are new creations with our own message. You would be better suited to stay out of revelations.

Well. I prefer Gods message over my own every time, new AND old Testaments! Who are you to tell me to avoid a blessed book of the bible and that also gives special blessings to those who do read and study it. Eschatology is what brought me initially to Jesus! Pray for eyes to see a heart to soften and ears to hear!
 
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soul man

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Really? Well, this new creation prefer


Well. I prefer Gods message over my own every time, new AND old Testaments! Who are you to tell me to avoid a blessed book of the bible and that also gives special blessings to those who do read and study it. Eschatology is what brought me initially to Jesus! Pray for eyes to see a heart to soften and ears to hear!

Most of it is concerned with events after the rapture of the church so what is the point. Believers aren't going to understand anyway, there is a thousand and one theories so why would they want to add to their confusion already. I'm not telling you shouldn't read anything but you would do yourself a favor by staying with what is directed to you, that was my point.
 

Phoneman777

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The OT (former old covenant) was not written to you. Christians have claimed all of it to be theirs, it doesn't fit Gentiles especially now the cross makes it possible to be born again.
How can the OT not be written to us when the OT identifies OUR Jesus as the prophesied Messiah to come? Throw out the OT and we have no means by which we can prove that Jesus was the One to Whom the Messianic prophecies pointed.

High sounding platitudes by modern preachers who are only interested in "milk bar messages" which tend to keep the consciences clear and the offering plates full are a poor substitute for common sense Bible reasoning, friend.
 
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Nancy

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Most of it is concerned with events after the rapture of the church so what is the point. Believers aren't going to understand anyway, there is a thousand and one theories so why would they want to add to their confusion already. I'm not telling you shouldn't read anything but you would do yourself a favor by staying with what is directed to you, that was my point.

My point is that it is ALL Gods word and He gave it to us for a reason. How very strange, a "Christian" suggesting to another Christian they would be better off to stay away from certain scripture?? I personally want to learn everything I can about end times. Do you not have any unsaved family and friends that are un-saved? Wouldn't it be nice if you could forewarn them of things to come and when they come to pass...just from remembering what you might have said could save a soul. Sorry soul man, this girl will study ALL scripture as it is inspired by God and meant to be read carefully and with an open heart and prayerfully for the Spirit to guide and teach.
God Bless
 

TheHolyBookEnds

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The OT (former old covenant) was not written to you. Christians have claimed all of it to be theirs, it doesn't fit Gentiles especially now the cross makes it possible to be born again.
What on earth was this man reading?

Act 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
Act 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
Act 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Act 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Act 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Did Philip climb into the chariot tear the scroll out of this Gentile man's hand and say, "That's not written for you!" and dare presume to speak about Jesus whom all the scriptures speak about?

Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Psa_40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Heb_10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Luk_24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Joh_1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Act_26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
Act_28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 15 tells you better:

Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.​
 

Phoneman777

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But you have Jesus as your King, yes? You certainly do not choose Caesar as your king. So how does that work for christians not stoning to death christians that are NOT sabbath day keepers?
We'll commence the stonings when we are back under a Theocracy again and you'll know it when God starts communicating by Urim and Thummun to a new Earthly High Priest (which will be never).
The Jews kept the Ten Commandments to get into Heaven.
The claim that OT believers had kept the commandments to gain entrance to heaven is totally asinine. The just of the OT and NT have always lived by faith (Habakkuk 2:4 KJV; Romans 1:17 KJV) . They showed their faith by killing the lamb while looking forward to Calvary, and we show our faith by obeying God while looking back to Calvary. "Show me your faith without works, and I'll show you my faith by my works."

Jesus Christ has saved us for why He is Lord of the sabbath which explains why we can rest in Him from keeping the sabbath day because He justifies us for profaning the sabbath day by dwelling in us. We have obtained salvation by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead.
If only you would read Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV and see that the verses are clear as crystal, which say that we who rest INWARDLY and SPIRITUALLY in Jesus will demonstrate that by resting OUTWARDLY and LITERALLY from our daily toil and labor every Sabbath, just as God rested...on the seventh day...not the day of the Sun god.

You can runaround to all the other scriptures in the Bible, but until you address the meaning of His message in Matthew 12:1-7, you are denying His words why and how under the New Covenant, you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day as His disciples were.. because Jesus is with them & you.
You may have missed my previous explanation to Matthew 12:1-7, so here it is in a bit more detail:
  • Jesus Himself said He didn't come to destroy the law, but you essentially keep arguing "if the law was good enough for Jesus to break, it's good enough for us to break". What can't seem to get through to you is that Jesus never broke any laws of God (John 15:10 KJV), but He broke the illegit laws of the Jews all day long, like their stupid law against visiting God's nature pantry on the fly.
  • Profaning the Sabbath for certain necessary duties is acceptable: caring for the sick, saving animals from a ditch, the OT intercessory priesthood, etc. However, exceptions are not the rule. Jesus didn't build tables and chairs on the Sabbath and I don't splice fiber optic cables and equipment on the Sabbath either.
  • You're interpreting Jesus' words about David's sin as though He defended what he did. Jesus never defends sin. He didn't bring up the incident to condemn David who He knew full well had broken the law - He brought it up to expose the hypocrisy of the Pharisees who refuse to condemn the priests or David for their disregard of the temple laws, but were ready to stone Him Who "is greater than the temple" to death for breaking zero laws.
 
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Phoneman777

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My point is that it is ALL Gods word and He gave it to us for a reason. How very strange, a "Christian" suggesting to another Christian they would be better off to stay away from certain scripture?? I personally want to learn everything I can about end times. Do you not have any unsaved family and friends that are un-saved? Wouldn't it be nice if you could forewarn them of things to come and when they come to pass...just from remembering what you might have said could save a soul. Sorry soul man, this girl will study ALL scripture as it is inspired by God and meant to be read carefully and with an open heart and prayerfully for the Spirit to guide and teach.
God Bless
I tell people all the time that the most fearful curse in all the Bible is found in Revelation 14 where it warns us about not worshiping the Beast, receiving the Mark of the Beast, the Name of the Beast, or the Number of the Beast. And yet, over and over, we're told "we need not concern ourselves with prophecy bc the church will be raptured before all that goes down."

What if that isn't the case?

What if we open up the history books and discover that during the Protestant Reformation, the Protestants had identified the Bible Antichrist as the Papacy in Rome, which caused such a mass exodus of Catholics from the Roman Catholic church that Catholic leadership got together at the record breaking Council of Trent (lasted 18 years) to figure out how to get rid of these troublesome Protestants. It was there that the Jesuits were organized and given the task of interpreting prophecy in a way that would exonerate the Papacy, and two Jesuit priest came up with two new ideas: Jesuit Preterism and Jesuit Futurism, with Preterism saying the Antichrist came in the first century (Emperor Nero) and Futurism saying that:
  1. Antichrist comes at the end of time during the last seven years of trib
  2. Antichrist is one single bad dude who will sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem
  3. Antichrist will broker a peace treaty between the Arabs and Jews which he will break 3 1/2 years into it which will usher in Armageddon
  4. (Later, John Nelson Darby added) Antichrist will arise after the church is raptured and taken out of the way
The Apostle John says the church has to overcome Antichrist. So did the Protestant Reformers. But, preachers today say otherwise. Somebody's not telling the truth.
 
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soul man

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My point is that it is ALL Gods word and He gave it to us for a reason. How very strange, a "Christian" suggesting to another Christian they would be better off to stay away from certain scripture?? I personally want to learn everything I can about end times. Do you not have any unsaved family and friends that are un-saved? Wouldn't it be nice if you could forewarn them of things to come and when they come to pass...just from remembering what you might have said could save a soul. Sorry soul man, this girl will study ALL scripture as it is inspired by God and meant to be read carefully and with an open heart and prayerfully for the Spirit to guide and teach.
God Bless

Sure I understand it is all inspired, I believe that. It just isn't all written to you as a message, only a small portion is speaking directly to you. You should find out what it is saying to you before going off on a allegorical trek through revelations. You are not the only one doing it, it's the norm for modern religion.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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We'll commence the stonings when we are back under a Theocracy again and you'll know it when God starts communicating by Urim and Thummun to a new Earthly High Priest (which will be never).

Jesus is Lord of my life. Scripture has Him as our unseen King but still our King.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That starts now towards the for ever.


The claim that OT believers had kept the commandments to gain entrance to heaven is totally asinine. The just of the OT and NT have always lived by faith (Habakkuk 2:4 KJV; Romans 1:17 KJV) .

That O.T. faith was towards a heavenly kingdom and city that they would one day inhabit, but they had to wait for their Redeemer to save them, because they had not received the promise yet.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The O.T. saints may had lived by faith, but under the Old Covenant, the saints were under the works of the law to obtain entrance into Heaven. In Matthew 19:16-23 Jesus was addressed by a rich man and the rich man had said that he had kept all the commandments from his youth and asking what else still could he do to enter into Heaven. Then Jesus told him to give up his riches. The man walked away in sorrow. So here was a man seeking to enter into Heaven by his merit and his willpower under the Old Covenant but because of his sinful nature of loving riches more than Him, he could not enter in. To wit, Jesus comment on the rich man made His disciples wonder how any one can be saved. That was the point of that event is that no man can save himself by the deeds of the law; only God can save them without the deeds of the law.

Paul confirms. in Romans 3:24-28

They showed their faith by killing the lamb while looking forward to Calvary, and we show our faith by obeying God while looking back to Calvary. "Show me your faith without works, and I'll show you my faith by my works."

Quoting from James when James was only talking about the faith in God's Providence wherein any church that voice it to others are to lead by example; it was never about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Context is needed as well as the right reference to what kind of faith, because faith in God's Providence is another kind of faith from faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works and always will be without works because Jesus Christ is the Saviour; not us with Him by keeping the laws.

If only you would read Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV and see that the verses are clear as crystal, which say that we who rest INWARDLY and SPIRITUALLY in Jesus will demonstrate that by resting OUTWARDLY and LITERALLY from our daily toil and labor every Sabbath, just as God rested...on the seventh day...not the day of the Sun god.

To apply that towards outward labour towards the sabbath, then we are to do that every day of the week. So that is wrongly applying His words.

You may have missed my previous explanation to Matthew 12:1-7, so here it is in a bit more detail:
  • Jesus Himself said He didn't come to destroy the law, but you essentially keep arguing "if the law was good enough for Jesus to break, it's good enough for us to break". What can't seem to get through to you is that Jesus never broke any laws of God (John 15:10 KJV), but He broke the illegit laws of the Jews all day long, like their stupid law against visiting God's nature pantry on the fly.
Let's address that what Jesus said about fulfilling the law was His sacrifice for our sins in having saved us in ransoming us from the death penalty. In that same context, we find these verses as well.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

In addition to your reference, you may find a conundrum, because verse 19 has Him testifying that the whosoever breaks one of these leats commandments and teaches others so are in the kingdom of heaven but are identified as the least in that kingdom. So how can any one break any of His commandments, even the least of them, and teach other so AND STILL bein His kingdom?

In verse 20, how can any one's righteousness surpasses the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees in order to enter therein? When you have His righteousness; the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

How can they be filled with His righteousness as promised?

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst

That is how by coming to & believing in Him is how you obtain His righteousness to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven as in born again.
  • Profaning the Sabbath for certain necessary duties is acceptable: caring for the sick, saving animals from a ditch, the OT intercessory priesthood, etc. However, exceptions are not the rule. Jesus didn't build tables and chairs on the Sabbath and I don't splice fiber optic cables and equipment on the Sabbath either.
The problem is that in gathering for food to have something to eat on the sabbath, God requires all work and preparation to be done ahead of time. One can see why the Pharisees could argue the point that Jesus & His disciples had all day yesterday to gather extra and prepare food to eat on the sabbath to avoid gathering and thus working on the sabbath day.

Jesus did not abolish the law and so He did confirm that what David and the priests had done was profaning the sabbath, but by referring to the Temple because the saints profaning the sabbath were in that Temple, that was why they were guiltless. And so by referring to the One greater than the Temple was here in that place where the Pharisees were attempting to condemn His disciples for "gathering on the sabbath day", Jesus basically said that because He was with them, they were guiltless. So Jesus Christ being in you ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) as your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 ) is why you and every believer is guiltless for profaning the sabbath day & why Jesus Christ is the Good News to man.

Then He said unto them for them to learn that He would have mercy on those whom they wish to condemn.

  • You're interpreting Jesus' words about David's sin as though He defended what he did. Jesus never defends sin. He didn't bring up the incident to condemn David who He knew full well had broken the law - He brought it up to expose the hypocrisy of the Pharisees who refuse to condemn the priests or David for their disregard of the temple laws, but were ready to stone Him Who "is greater than the temple" to death for breaking zero laws.

Let's remember that the Pharisees were seeking to condemn His disciples.

Again, Jesus acknowledged that David had profaned the sabbath, and explained that by being in the Temple, they were guiltless as Him being with His disciples was why they were guiltless.

That is why regardless of how references were made to some of the 10 commandments in how to love one another, the keeping of the sabbath day is not one of them in the N.T.
 

Phoneman777

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Jesus is Lord of my life. Scripture has Him as our unseen King but still our King.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. That starts now towards the for ever.
As I've said, we'll commence the stoning of Sabbath-breakers and adulterers when we find ourselves under the new Theocracy. You'll know it when you see the Earthly High Priest wearing the 12 Stone breastplate and communicating with God through Urim and Thummum (which, of course, will never happen again).

That O.T. faith was towards a heavenly kingdom and city that they would one day inhabit, but they had to wait for their Redeemer to save them, because they had not received the promise yet.
No, the OT sinner's faith was in the promised coming Messiah and the NT sinner's faith is in the Messiah Who came.

The O.T. saints may had lived by faith, but under the Old Covenant, the saints were under the works of the law to obtain entrance into Heaven.
This statement is patently false. The blood of animals could never take away sin - it was by their faith they obtained the righteousness of God which grants them entrance to heaven, not their works. Their works merely demonstrated their faith, and our works do the same. Dispensationalism is first-rate creative Christian theology that has zero Bible evidence to back it up.

In Matthew 19:16-23 , here was a man seeking to enter into Heaven by his merit and his willpower under the Old Covenant but because of his sinful nature of loving riches more than Him, he could not enter in. To wit, Jesus comment on the rich man made His disciples wonder how any one can be saved.
Jesus didn't tell that man to sell everything to prove that we can break as many laws as we want to and still go to heaven, nor was He wrong about what He told the Rich Man was the requirement for entrance to heaven. He said what He said to reveal to the Rich Man the covetousness that was deep down in his heart. Notice that he quoted commandments 5-9 and when the Rich Man said he was down with all of that, Jesus hit him where it hurt him - the tenth commandment.

That was the point of that event is that no man can save himself by the deeds of the law; only God can save them without the deeds of the law.
Why do you keep restating what no one denies - that obedience justifies no one? Do you want me to say it? OBEDIENCE JUSTIFIES NO ONE. Did you get it this time? Now, what obedience does is PROVE that Jesus is in your heart, because without Jesus in your heart, you can't obey the least commandment. And people who argue that we may break the Ten Commandment prove that they follow the father of lies, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV.

Quoting from James when James was only talking about the faith in God's Providence wherein any church that voice it to others are to lead by example; it was never about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Context is needed as well as the right reference to what kind of faith, because faith in God's Providence is another kind of faith from faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works and always will be without works because Jesus Christ is the Saviour; not us with Him by keeping the laws.
James' words have nothing to do with whatever point you are trying to make here. James was clear that their are people like you who claim to have faith but no works and he calls that faith DEAD. Then he points to living faith, faith that is demonstrated by works. You can't spin his words around to make them mean anything but what I just said, because that's exactly what James plainly said.

To apply that towards outward labour towards the sabbath, then we are to do that every day of the week. So that is wrongly applying His words.
So you're claiming that Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV does not mean what it says - that if we have entered into the SPIRITUAL rest of Jesus we will demonstrate that we have by our LITERAL rest from our toil and labor - because SPIRITUAL rest is continual while LITERAL rest from toil on Sabbath is just once a week?

Well, why get baptized then - which is a simple, one-time ceremony where we hold our breath to symbolize death of the old man, plunged underneath to symbolize the burial of the old man, and then come up and take a breath to symbolize the resurrection into a new life which is continuously lived in Jesus?

Or why partake of communion, a ceremony that is periodically observed as a memorial to our Savior Who was alive and then was dead, and behold is alive forevermore?

Frequency has nothing to do with types and antitypes.

Matthew 5:19-20 So how can any one break any of His commandments, even the least of them, and teach other so AND STILL bein His kingdom?
So, you think heaven will be like India - a Celestial caste society where the "least" will washing everyone else's feet? You're misinterpreting the verse. It doesn't mean these law breaking teachers of lawlessness will be in the kingdom washing every one else's feet - it means that when those up there in the kingdom of heaven speak about these lawbreaking teachers of lawlessness down here (like people who teach we may freely break the fourth commandment), they who are up there will refer to these down here as "least". Conversely, when they up there speak about people down here doing and teaching God's commandments, they call them "great"- praise God, what a sublime thought!

In verse 20, how can any one's righteousness surpasses the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees in order to enter therein?
The answer to your question is in verse 21 and the following verses. Suffice it to say, Jesus was contrasting the "letter of the law" from which the Pharisees derived their righteousness, with the "spirit of the law" which fulfillment is accomplished only by the indwelling power of Jesus, the One from Whom we derive our righteousness. When Jesus lives in our hearts, we are not only kept from committing murder, lying, adultery, etc., but His power keeps our very own thoughts pure.

The problem is that in gathering for food to have something to eat on the sabbath, God requires all work and preparation to be done ahead of time. One can see why the Pharisees could argue the point that Jesus & His disciples had all day yesterday to gather extra and prepare food to eat on the sabbath to avoid gathering and thus working on the sabbath day.
You're failing to make the distinction between a multitude of encamped, immobilized Israelites with no excuse for not having food stored up for Sabbath ---and--- Jesus and His disciples who were continuously on the move spreading the Gospel and engaging in evangelism. What did the spies eat on Sabbath when they went to spy out the land of Canaan, seeing they had no Manna with them? Yes, they did just as Jesus and the disciples did. Again, please stop trying to make Jesus "destroy the law" when He Himself said He didn't come to do that.

Jesus did not abolish the law and so He did confirm that what David and the priests had done was profaning the sabbath, but by referring to the Temple because the saints profaning the sabbath were in that Temple, that was why they were guiltless. And so by referring to the One greater than the Temple was here in that place where the Pharisees were attempting to condemn His disciples for "gathering on the sabbath day", Jesus basically said that because He was with them, they were guiltless. So Jesus Christ being in you ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) as your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 ) is why you and every believer is guiltless for profaning the sabbath day
James told Christians thirty years after Calvary that if they kill or commit adultery, "thou art become a transgressor of the law". Can't you realize that James would have never written this if Jesus had taught him and the rest that Christians who break the Ten Commandments are guiltless, as you so badly want us to believe?

As stated earlier, Jesus brought up David's sin and the profaning priests to expose the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, not to tell us that we are guiltless if we break the Ten Commandments.

Jesus acknowledged that David had profaned the sabbath, and explained that (he was) guiltless
Jesus didn't say David was "guiltless". Jesus brought it up to expose the Pharisees' hypocrisy for giving David and the priests a pass for their temple crimes, but wanting to stone to death the One greater than the temple.

That is why regardless of how references were made to some of the 10 commandments in how to love one another, the keeping of the sabbath day is not one of them in the N.T.
Since you refuse to acknowledge the KJV's clear teaching that if we're resting Spiritually in Jesus, we'll rest Literally on Sabbath, please try Hebrews 4:9-10 Peshitta Syriac Version, the Bible of Ancient Eastern MSS and closest to the KJV:

"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath. For he who has entered into His rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His."​
 

Nancy

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As I've said, we'll commence the stoning of Sabbath-breakers and adulterers when we find ourselves under the new Theocracy. You'll know it when you see the Earthly High Priest wearing the 12 Stone breastplate and communicating with God through Urim and Thummum (which, of course, will never happen again).


No, the OT sinner's faith was in the promised coming Messiah and the NT sinner's faith is in the Messiah Who came.


This statement is patently false. The blood of animals could never take away sin - it was by their faith they obtained the righteousness of God which grants them entrance to heaven, not their works. Their works merely demonstrated their faith, and our works do the same. Dispensationalism is first-rate creative Christian theology that has zero Bible evidence to back it up.


Jesus didn't tell that man to sell everything to prove that we can break as many laws as we want to and still go to heaven, nor was He wrong about what He told the Rich Man was the requirement for entrance to heaven. He said what He said to reveal to the Rich Man the covetousness that was deep down in his heart. Notice that he quoted commandments 5-9 and when the Rich Man said he was down with all of that, Jesus hit him where it hurt him - the tenth commandment.


Why do you keep restating what no one denies - that obedience justifies no one? Do you want me to say it? OBEDIENCE JUSTIFIES NO ONE. Did you get it this time? Now, what obedience does is PROVE that Jesus is in your heart, because without Jesus in your heart, you can't obey the least commandment. And people who argue that we may break the Ten Commandment prove that they follow the father of lies, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV.


James' words have nothing to do with whatever point you are trying to make here. James was clear that their are people like you who claim to have faith but no works and he calls that faith DEAD. Then he points to living faith, faith that is demonstrated by works. You can't spin his words around to make them mean anything but what I just said, because that's exactly what James plainly said.


So you're claiming that Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV does not mean what it says - that if we have entered into the SPIRITUAL rest of Jesus we will demonstrate that we have by our LITERAL rest from our toil and labor - because SPIRITUAL rest is continual while LITERAL rest from toil on Sabbath is just once a week?

Well, why get baptized then - which is a simple, one-time ceremony where we hold our breath to symbolize death of the old man, plunged underneath to symbolize the burial of the old man, and then come up and take a breath to symbolize the resurrection into a new life which is continuously lived in Jesus?

Or why partake of communion, a ceremony that is periodically observed as a memorial to our Savior Who was alive and then was dead, and behold is alive forevermore?

Frequency has nothing to do with types and antitypes.


So, you think heaven will be like India - a Celestial caste society where the "least" will washing everyone else's feet? You're misinterpreting the verse. It doesn't mean these law breaking teachers of lawlessness will be in the kingdom washing every one else's feet - it means that when those up there in the kingdom of heaven speak about these lawbreaking teachers of lawlessness down here (like people who teach we may freely break the fourth commandment), they who are up there will refer to these down here as "least". Conversely, when they up there speak about people down here doing and teaching God's commandments, they call them "great"- praise God, what a sublime thought!


The answer to your question is in verse 21 and the following verses. Suffice it to say, Jesus was contrasting the "letter of the law" from which the Pharisees derived their righteousness, with the "spirit of the law" which fulfillment is accomplished only by the indwelling power of Jesus, the One from Whom we derive our righteousness. When Jesus lives in our hearts, we are not only kept from committing murder, lying, adultery, etc., but His power keeps our very own thoughts pure.


You're failing to make the distinction between a multitude of encamped, immobilized Israelites with no excuse for not having food stored up for Sabbath ---and--- Jesus and His disciples who were continuously on the move spreading the Gospel and engaging in evangelism. What did the spies eat on Sabbath when they went to spy out the land of Canaan, seeing they had no Manna with them? Yes, they did just as Jesus and the disciples did. Again, please stop trying to make Jesus "destroy the law" when He Himself said He didn't come to do that.


James told Christians thirty years after Calvary that if they kill or commit adultery, "thou art become a transgressor of the law". Can't you realize that James would have never written this if Jesus had taught him and the rest that Christians who break the Ten Commandments are guiltless, as you so badly want us to believe?

As stated earlier, Jesus brought up David's sin and the profaning priests to expose the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, not to tell us that we are guiltless if we break the Ten Commandments.


Jesus didn't say David was "guiltless". Jesus brought it up to expose the Pharisees' hypocrisy for giving David and the priests a pass for their temple crimes, but wanting to stone to death the One greater than the temple.


Since you refuse to acknowledge the KJV's clear teaching that if we're resting Spiritually in Jesus, we'll rest Literally on Sabbath, please try Hebrews 4:9-10 Peshitta Syriac Version, the Bible of Ancient Eastern MSS and closest to the KJV:

"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath. For he who has entered into His rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His."​

"You are trying to earn favor with God by observing certain days or months or seasons or years. I fear for you. Perhaps all my hard work with you was for nothing. Dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to live as I do in freedom from these things, for I have become like you Gentiles—free from those laws."

Galatians 4:10-12

Jesus FULFILLED the law because man cannot. We Christians must understand that WE are under Grace now= freedom from the law (which we were never invited to in the 1st place) If man was able to keep the law, Jesus would not had have to die. The old testament sacrificing of bulls and goats did not TAKE away their sin, only COVERED their sin, and the animal sacrifices had to be done over and over again. Jesus once for all sacrifice, having being the only man who could EVER fulfill the Law, has ushered in Grace and freedom from the Law. The law points to what sin is. God's Laws etched in our hearts. Love God, Love neighbor...these ARE His N.T. Laws...the rest of the Mosaic law hangs on these 2 commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:4-6 4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the [a]Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

DEAD TO THE LAW" Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
King James Bible Romans 7:8-
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
 
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Nancy

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Sister, the letter without the Spirit kills. The Spirit makes alive, and makes it possible to obey Him in all the Commandments.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.​

Hence the difference in ministrations, and glories, not difference of the Law (Ten Commandments).

Why?

The Law (Ten Commandments) are spiritual.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
It is the carnal mind, without the Holy Ghost, that cannot obey:

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.​

We humans (saved) are BEING perfected. Have you ever gottn angry with your brother? If so, you are guilty of murder say's Jesus. If you break one, you have broken them all...so, how many times do you want our Lord to suffer and die?? He died ONCE for ALL...and it worked. Trying to follow the letter of the Law rather than the spirit of grace is impossible. God's laws are now etched on our hearts so as not to sin. If we walk in the flesh, we will commit the deeds of the flesh but, if we walk in the Spirit as Jesus intended then...we will not make sin rule over us but...if you think you are sinless, you are not...even IF you (Think) you can keep the Law. I will take His grace, freely given over law anytime because we are FREED from the law and His Grace makes it impossible for a Christian to make a habit of sinning. We are NOT yet perfected and those laws require perfection.
 
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brakelite

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It would seem that for many, grace has no power. The gospel has no power. So we take the gospel into other lands and explain that because man cannot keep the law, and thus are sinners, then Jesus died that none be condemned. Then we explain to them that this is called grace. But that is as far as it goes. Grace has no power to change a sinner into a righteous man. Grace forgives sin, but has no power to remove it. Sorry sinner Jesus forgives you but has no power to free you from your habits and addictions. Jesus died because you disobey his commandments, and you will continue to do so until you die, in fact, Jesus doesn't expect you to obey. That's OT stuff. Ignore that. Obedience is for legalists and not for real Bible students. Adulterers, you have to keep doing what you been accustomed to. Not committing adultery is legalism. Not to steal is legalism. And anyone who teaches that obedience is necessary, or even possible, belong to a cult. Ignore them.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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So you're claiming that Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV does not mean what it says - that if we have entered into the SPIRITUAL rest of Jesus we will demonstrate that we have by our LITERAL rest from our toil and labor - because SPIRITUAL rest is continual while LITERAL rest from toil on Sabbath is just once a week?

Skipping down to another quote within that same post.

Since you refuse to acknowledge the KJV's clear teaching that if we're resting Spiritually in Jesus, we'll rest Literally on Sabbath, please try Hebrews 4:9-10 Peshitta Syriac Version, the Bible of Ancient Eastern MSS and closest to the KJV:

"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath. For he who has entered into His rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His."​

Well, that explains why you read the KJV in that way and it was by that errant version. Matthew 12:1-7 reproves that version as being in error.

Well, why get baptized then - which is a simple, one-time ceremony where we hold our breath to symbolize death of the old man, plunged underneath to symbolize the burial of the old man, and then come up and take a breath to symbolize the resurrection into a new life which is continuously lived in Jesus?

Has nothing to do with salvation. It is just an ordinance for new believers to follow.

Or why partake of communion, a ceremony that is periodically observed as a memorial to our Savior Who was alive and then was dead, and behold is alive forevermore?

Frequency has nothing to do with types and antitypes.


Because some believers may forget what He has done as if it was not good enough to have saved them that they need to keep the law too in order to obtain salvation.

So, you think heaven will be like India - a Celestial caste society where the "least" will washing everyone else's feet? You're misinterpreting the verse. It doesn't mean these law breaking teachers of lawlessness will be in the kingdom washing every one else's feet - it means that when those up there in the kingdom of heaven speak about these lawbreaking teachers of lawlessness down here (like people who teach we may freely break the fourth commandment), they who are up there will refer to these down here as "least". Conversely, when they up there speak about people down here doing and teaching God's commandments, they call them "great"- praise God, what a sublime thought!

Not saying that when received by the Bridegroom, they will be practicing breaking any of His commandments still in His kingdom of Heaven, but they will be considered the least.

Do explain 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ( you can click on that reference in this post and it should pop it up to read ) for how the call to depart from iniquity is given even to former believers to avoid being that vessel unto dishonor in His House as the vessels unto dishonor that are still in His House are those who did not depart from iniquity? After they have become castaways and the works that deny Him or had defiled the temple of God has been burned away off of that foundation laid by Jesus Christ ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ), that foundation remains just as that seal of adoption does ( Ephesians 4:30 ) for why the castaways, those denied entrance to the Marriage Supper, will be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

So they will not be practicing breaking any of His commandments in His kingdom of Heaven, but because Jesus is Lord of the sabbath, no one will be judged guilt for profaning the sabbath day. That is His glory and not man's.

The answer to your question is in verse 21 and the following verses. Suffice it to say, Jesus was contrasting the "letter of the law" from which the Pharisees derived their righteousness, with the "spirit of the law" which fulfillment is accomplished only by the indwelling power of Jesus, the One from Whom we derive our righteousness. When Jesus lives in our hearts, we are not only kept from committing murder, lying, adultery, etc., but His power keeps our very own thoughts pure.

You're failing to make the distinction between a multitude of encamped, immobilized Israelites with no excuse for not having food stored up for Sabbath ---and--- Jesus and His disciples who were continuously on the move spreading the Gospel and engaging in evangelism. What did the spies eat on Sabbath when they went to spy out the land of Canaan, seeing they had no Manna with them? Yes, they did just as Jesus and the disciples did. Again, please stop trying to make Jesus "destroy the law" when He Himself said He didn't come to do that.

Did not Jesus acknowledge that the O.T. saints were profaning the sabbath in Matthew 12:1-7? Did He not explained why they were guiltless in Matthew 12:1-7 because they were in the Temple? Did not Jesus say why His disciples were guiltless when referring to the One greater than the Temple was there in that place with His disciples to reprove the Pharisees for trying to condemn His disciples for profaning the sabbath?

Until you recognize why He is Lord of the sabbath for why you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day, you best be praying till you do.