JesusIsFaithful
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Baptism ?
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Marymog
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According to Scripture, what is spiritual water?
Curious Mary
PS.........John 7:37-39 has NOTHING to do with water baptism.
Marymog
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That's right, and H2O baptism has nothing to do with Rom 10:9. H2O does not save, only the blood of Christ saves you. Spiritual water, as in "anointing" that comes from God and into the minds and hearts of believers in Christ. God bless.
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Marymog
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Thank you!
I agree with you......Romans 10:9 has nothing to do with with water baptism. Who said it did?
Where does scripture say that “ONLY the blood of Christ saves you”? Where does scripture say that Spiritual water is an “anointing that comes from God and into the minds and hearts of believers in Christ”?
I can’t find either of those beliefs in scripture.
I sure would appreciate at least an attempt to answer my question or just tell me that you are refusing to answer my question: Peter used the word WATER (eight souls were saved by water) and then in the next sentence he connected it to BAPTISM (baptism doth also now save us).
Do you not believe that Peter was referring to water being used in baptism?
If your answer is that Peter was referring to “spiritual water” then you would be wrong since he was CLEARLY talking about the days of Noah when his family was saved by H20.
Mary
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Marymog
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Yes, water was used to destroy the wicked (sinful) people. It was used to wash away sin and restore the earth to the righteous: Noah and his family. But doesn’t scripture say that the act of baptism (with water) washes away sin? (Acts 22:16)
Recognize this passage from Scripture: Wash me from my iniquity and cleanse me from my sins.
Mary
Could you just tell me why you think that Jesus told the Apostles to baptize all nations in the name of the Trinity and to teach them to obey all that Jesus had taught.
He seems to make the baptizing as important as the teaching since it's the only two things Jesus mentioned.
Also, in post 178 you mentioned about spiritual water annointing.
Annointing was always done with oil. Could you show where it was done with water?
Anointing, [N] [T]
in Holy Scripture, is either, I. Material--with oil--or II. Spiritual--with the Holy Ghost. I. MATERIAL.--
- Ordinary . Anointing the body or head with oil was a common practice with the Jews, as with other Oriental nations. ( 28:40 ;Ruth 3:3 ; Micah 6:15 ) Anointing the head with oil or ointment seems also to have been a mark of respect sometimes paid by a host to his guests. ( Luke 7:46 ) and Psal 23:5
- Official . It was a rite of inauguration into each of the three typical offices of the Jewish commonwealth. a. Prophets were occasionally anointed to their office, ( 1 Kings 19:16 ) and were called messiahs, or anointed. ( 1 Chronicles 16:22 ; Psalms 105:15 ) b. Priests, at the first institution of the Levitical priesthood, were all anointed to their offices, ( Exodus 40:15 ; Numbers 3:3 ) but afterwards anointing seems to have been specially reserved for the high priest, ( Exodus 29:29 ; Leviticus 16:32 ) so that "the priest that is anointed," ( Leviticus 4:3 ) is generally thought to mean the high priest. c. Kings. Anointing was the principal and divinely-appointed ceremony in the inauguration of the Jewish Kings. ( 1 Samuel 9:16 ; 10:1 ; 1 Kings 1:34 1 Kings 1:39 ) The rite was sometimes performed more than once. David was thrice anointed. d. Inanimate objects also were anointed with oil, in token of their being set apart for religious service. Thus Jacob anointed a pillar at Bethel. ( ( Genesis 31:13; Exodus 30:26-28 )
- Ecclesiastical . Anointing with oil is prescribed by St. James to be used for the recovery of the sick. ( James 5:14 ) Analogous to this is the anointing with oil practiced by the twelve. ( Mark 6:13 ) II. SPIRITUAL.--
- In the Old Testament a Deliverer is promised under the title of Messiah, or Anointed, ( Psalms 2:2 ; Daniel 9:25 Daniel 9:26 ) and the nature of his anointing is described to be spiritual, with the Holy Ghost. ( Isaiah 61:1 ) see Luke 4:18 In the New Testament Jesus of Nazareth is shown to be the Messiah, or Christ or Anointed, of the Old Testament, ( John 1:41 ; Acts 9:22 ;Acts 17:2 Acts 17:3 ; Acts 18:4 Acts 18:28 ) and the historical fact of his being anointed with the Holy Ghost is asserted and recorded. ( John 1:32 John 1:33 ; Acts 4:27 ; 10:38 ) Christ was anointed as prophet priest and king.
- Spiritual anointing with the Holy Ghost is conferred also upon Christians by God. ( 2 Corinthians 1:21 ) " Anointing "expresses the sanctifying influences of the Holy Spirit upon Christians who are priests and kings unto God.
part 1 of 2
part 2 of 2
(1) It was observed in Canaan long before the Hebrew conquest, and, accordingly, Weinel (Stade's Zeutschrift, XVIII, 50) holds that, as the use of oil for general purposes in Israel was an agricultural custom borrowed from the Canaanites, so the anointing with sacred oil was an outgrowth from its regular use for toilet purposes. It seems more in accordance with the known facts of the case and the terms used in description to accept the view set forth by Robertson Smith (Religion of the Semites, 2nd ed., 233, 383; compare Wellhausen, Reste des arabischen Heidenthums, 2nd ed., 125) and to believe that the cukh or use of oil for toilet purposes, was of agricultural and secular origin, and that the use of oil for sacred purposes, mashach, was in origin nomadic and sacrificial. Robertson Smith finds the origin of the sacred anointing in the very ancient custom of smearing the sacred fat on the altar (matstsebhah), and claims, rightly it would seem, that from the first there was a distinct and consistent usage, distinguishing the two terms as above.
(2) The primary meaning of mashach in Hebrew, which is borne out by the Arabic, seems to have been "to daub" or "smear." It is used of painting a ceiling in Jeremiah 22:14, of anointing a shield in Isaiah 21:5, and is, accordingly, consistently applied to sacred furniture, like the altar, in Exodus 29:36 and Daniel 9:24, and to the sacred pillar in Genesis 31:13:
"where thou anointedst a pillar."
(3) The most significant uses of mashach, however, are found in its application, not to sacred things, but to certain sacred persons. The oldest and most sacred of these, it would seem, was the anointing of the king, by pouring oil upon his head at his coronation, a ceremony regarded as sacred from the earliest times, and observed religiously not in Israel only, but in Egypt and elsewhere (see Judges 9:8,15; 1 Samuel 9:16; 10:1; 2 Samuel 19:10; 1 Kings 1:39,45; 2 Kings 9:3,6; 11:12). Indeed such anointing appears to have been reserved exclusively for the king in the earliest times, which accounts for the fact that "the Lord's anointed" became a synonym for "king" (see 1 Samuel 12:3,5; 26:11; 2 Samuel 1:14; Psalms 20:6). It is thought by some that the practice originated in Egypt, and it is known to have been observed as a rite in Canaan at a very early day. Tell el-Amarna Letters 37 records the anointing of a king.
(4) Among the Hebrews it was believed not only that it effected a transference to the anointed one of something of the holiness and virtue of the deity in whose name and by whose representative the rite was performed, but also that it imparted a special endowment of the spirit of Yahweh (compare 1 Samuel 16:13; Isaiah 61:1). Hence the profound reverence for the king as a sacred personage, "the anointed" (Hebrew, meshiach YHWH), which passed over into our language through the Greek Christos, and appears as "Christ".
(5) In what is known today as the Priestly Code, the high priest is spoken of as "anointed" (Exodus 29:7; Leviticus 4:3; 8:12), and, in passages regarded by some as later additions to the Priestly Code, other priests also are thus spoken of (Exodus 30:30; 40:13-15). Elijah was told to anoint Elisha as a prophet (1 Kings 19:16), but seems never to have done so. 1 Kings 19:16 gives us the only recorded instance of such a thing as the anointing of a prophet. Isaiah 61:1 is purely metaphorical (compare Dillmann on Leviticus 8:12-14 with ICC on Numbers 3:3; see also Nowack, Lehrbuch der hebraischen Archaologie, II, 124).
(1) It was observed in Canaan long before the Hebrew conquest, and, accordingly, Weinel (Stade's Zeutschrift, XVIII, 50) holds that, as the use of oil for general purposes in Israel was an agricultural custom borrowed from the Canaanites, so the anointing with sacred oil was an outgrowth from its regular use for toilet purposes. It seems more in accordance with the known facts of the case and the terms used in description to accept the view set forth by Robertson Smith (Religion of the Semites, 2nd ed., 233, 383; compare Wellhausen, Reste des arabischen Heidenthums, 2nd ed., 125) and to believe that the cukh or use of oil for toilet purposes, was of agricultural and secular origin, and that the use of oil for sacred purposes, mashach, was in origin nomadic and sacrificial. Robertson Smith finds the origin of the sacred anointing in the very ancient custom of smearing the sacred fat on the altar (matstsebhah), and claims, rightly it would seem, that from the first there was a distinct and consistent usage, distinguishing the two terms as above.
(2) The primary meaning of mashach in Hebrew, which is borne out by the Arabic, seems to have been "to daub" or "smear." It is used of painting a ceiling in Jeremiah 22:14, of anointing a shield in Isaiah 21:5, and is, accordingly, consistently applied to sacred furniture, like the altar, in Exodus 29:36 and Daniel 9:24, and to the sacred pillar in Genesis 31:13:
"where thou anointedst a pillar."
(3) The most significant uses of mashach, however, are found in its application, not to sacred things, but to certain sacred persons. The oldest and most sacred of these, it would seem, was the anointing of the king, by pouring oil upon his head at his coronation, a ceremony regarded as sacred from the earliest times, and observed religiously not in Israel only, but in Egypt and elsewhere (see Judges 9:8,15; 1 Samuel 9:16; 10:1; 2 Samuel 19:10; 1 Kings 1:39,45; 2 Kings 9:3,6; 11:12). Indeed such anointing appears to have been reserved exclusively for the king in the earliest times, which accounts for the fact that "the Lord's anointed" became a synonym for "king" (see 1 Samuel 12:3,5; 26:11; 2 Samuel 1:14; Psalms 20:6). It is thought by some that the practice originated in Egypt, and it is known to have been observed as a rite in Canaan at a very early day. Tell el-Amarna Letters 37 records the anointing of a king.
(4) Among the Hebrews it was believed not only that it effected a transference to the anointed one of something of the holiness and virtue of the deity in whose name and by whose representative the rite was performed, but also that it imparted a special endowment of the spirit of Yahweh (compare 1 Samuel 16:13; Isaiah 61:1). Hence the profound reverence for the king as a sacred personage, "the anointed" (Hebrew, meshiach YHWH), which passed over into our language through the Greek Christos, and appears as "Christ".
(5) In what is known today as the Priestly Code, the high priest is spoken of as "anointed" (Exodus 29:7; Leviticus 4:3; 8:12), and, in passages regarded by some as later additions to the Priestly Code, other priests also are thus spoken of (Exodus 30:30; 40:13-15). Elijah was told to anoint Elisha as a prophet (1 Kings 19:16), but seems never to have done so. 1 Kings 19:16 gives us the only recorded instance of such a thing as the anointing of a prophet. Isaiah 61:1 is purely metaphorical (compare Dillmann on Leviticus 8:12-14 with ICC on Numbers 3:3; see also Nowack, Lehrbuch der hebraischen Archaologie, II, 124).
and Rom 10:9 is what saves you, not H2O
You want me to point out every scripture with the word "believe" in it?
Where else would the anointing go?
Isa 40:31 but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
1Jo 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
1Jo 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
These passages are self explanatory and is referring to the resurrection of Christ through belief.......
1 Pet 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
Isa 40:31 but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
1Jo 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
1Jo 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
Philip James
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For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
Figurative language for the body of Christ and the blood of Christ, which believers have obtained through belief in the death, burial and resurrection.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
The question here is whether "calling on the name of the Lord" washes away sins, or is it water baptism.
Since Scripture says several times that "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom 10:13) we must put the emphasis on calling upon the name of the Lord.
The one who was baptized after hearing these words (the apostle Paul) later on made it crystal clear that water baptism does not not save anyone from their sins. It is the preaching of the Gospel and the subsequent obedience to the Gospel which brings sinners to salvation.
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. (1 Cor 1:17).
Paul could never have made such a statement if water baptism was indeed critical for salvation. The eternal destiny of souls was at stake. But since the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16), Paul rightly said what he said.
Which does not mean that water baptism has no significance or may be conveniently ignored. To the contrary, it is a commandment of Christ to the one whose sins have already been washed away. Ordinary H2O can do nothing for the soul. It is the "water" of the Gospel that brings about conversion.
Hi H,
I know that annointing could be with the Holy Spirit and with oil.
You mentioned water - which I had never heard of.
This is what you said in post 178:
You will know them by their fruit, and understanding spiritual water (anointing) is testing their fruit. Ur welcome.
I just don't understand what you mean by this. By spiritual water, do you mean baptism?
Yes, Holy Spirit baptism, Holy Spirit sanctification, Spiritual oil.
Matt 25:3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil (elaion) with them.
elaion: olive oil
Original Word: ἔλαιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: elaion
Phonetic Spelling: (el'-ah-yon)
Short Definition: olive oil
Definition: olive oil, oil.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1637 élaion – olive oil (from 1636 /elaía, "olive tree"); (figuratively) the indwelling (empowering) of the Holy Spirit.
While all true believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, none can give their oil to someone else (see Mt 25:3-8)! Each person must seek (find) the Lord for themself.
Marymog
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Thank you.
Scripture CLEARLY says and the NT Christians and the 1st Century Christians and the 2nd century Christians all the way thru the 21st century Christians have practiced and believed that H20 is necessary.
Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins.
Mary
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Triumph1300
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Marymog
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Dear friend,
The practice of NOT baptizing or treating water baptism as a SYMBOL began after the Reformation.
It is up to you and your ilk to explain how Christians got it wrong for 1,600 years and now all of a sudden like magic you and your ilk are right.
Mary
Marymog
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Looks like you got @ByGrace to support you in your derogatory remark. Real nice BG!!! Do either of you think that the "fence post" quip was being good to me?
Have either of you read Galatians 6:10?
Praying for my fellow brothers and sisters....Mary
Marymog
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Hi T1300,
How does James 5:15-16 and John 20:23 and 1 John 6:9 and Acts 22:16 fit into your stated belief?
Curious Mary
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