The Holy Spirit

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Christina

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--Speaking in Tongues After the disciples were baptized in the Holy Spirit “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance” (Ac. 2:4). When the apostles are filled with the Holy Spirit they become the Spirit’s mouthpiece by speaking in tongues (i.e., spoken foreign languages) to a large assembly of foreign Jews. Because the gift of tongues is greatly misunderstood in our day (primarily by Charismatics) it is important that we carefully define the biblical phenomenon of tongues. What are the biblical tongues? Should we expect to see the gift of tongues practiced in the present day? Should believers seek the gift of tongues? These and other questions will be answered as we study tongues in Scripture. There are many areas to consider. (1) The term tongues (in Greek glossa, plural glossais) when used of human speech always refers to the speaking of actual human languages.59 In the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) the word glossa occurs thirty times and always refers to real human languages.60 In the book of Acts where we are introduced to the supernatural phenomenon of tongues speaking, Luke emphasizes the fact the that apostles were speaking real, known, human languages. “And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, ‘Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?’” (Acts 2:5-8). That the disciples were speaking real human languages is evident in the following observations. (a) The tongues were immediately understood by the hearers from several different Roman provinces and lands without any need for interpretation. This fact can only mean that the apostles were speaking real, normal languages. Remember the miracle or sign was in the speaking; not in the hearing. The hearers at this point were not even believers. “What this speaking ‘with different tongues’ means is stated in v. 6: ‘everyone heard them speaking in his own language;’ and in v. 11: ‘we are hearing them telling with our own tongue the great things of God.’ The disciples spoke in foreign languages that were hitherto unknown to them, in the very languages of the natives of the foreign lands who were presently assembled before them.”61 As if to emphasize that the disciples were speaking real languages and not gibberish, Luke even lists the peoples which heard their native tongues: “Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs–we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11). (
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In Acts 2, glossais is used by Luke interchangeably with dialektos which the eminent lexicographer J. H. Thayer defines as “the tongue or language peculiar to any people.”62 Obviously, if Luke uses tongues (glossais) and languages (dialektos) in a parallel or synonymous manner, tongues speaking cannot refer to gibberish. “The equation of ‘tongue’ and dialektos in verse 8 shows that speech in different languages is meant.”63 The languages are listed in verses 9 and 11. When we encounter tongues speaking again in Acts chapter 10 we are told by Luke that the Gentiles had the same experience as the Jewish believers in chapter 2. In the historical account, Peter says that the Gentiles “received the Holy Spirit just as we have” (v. 47). He tells the Jerusalem church that “the Holy Spirit fell on them [the Gentiles], as on us at the beginning” (Ac. 11:15). Again, the apostle says that God gave the Gentiles “the same gift as he did unto us” (v. 17). Peter is careful to point out (first to his Jewish companions at Cornelius’ house, then at the first church council) that the Gentiles and Jewish experience was the same. “This likeness of experience extends not only to the fact of receiving the Spirit but to the nature of tongue-speaking in foreign languages.”64 Thus, there is not a shred of evidence within the book of Acts that tongues-speaking is anything but real foreign languages. The fact that tongues in the book of Acts always refers to real human languages is not considered significant or even accepted by all professing Christians. For example, most Charismatics will argue that there are three different kinds of tongues in the New Testament. There are tongues that occur as the initial evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. There are the special tongues for edification in public worship as well as “heavenly tongues” or the tongues used for private prayer. Because there are different types of tongues (we are told) then sometimes tongues could be a real foreign language while at other times it might be a heavenly ecstatic language unknown on earth. While this view is popular, we will see that every use of tongues in the New Testament is a real human language.
[url="http://www.entrewave.com/view/reform...20part%205.htm]http://www.entrewave.com/view/reform...20part%205.htm[/url]
 

setfree

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Alan,I have discussed this with Kriss and You can not help her understand because of the closed mind. I am saying this because I can relate to her, I was there and I argued the same way. Nobody could change my mind, only God. But I do agree with you on the praying in the spirit, and there are others that understand this truth as well. I am still studing the baptisms. I think the water baptism is a picture of the Spirit baptism. Jesus fulfilled the law when he was being water baptized. The real baptism is the Holy Spirit.
 

Christina

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She's right I will never be convinced to follow man over God for it is not God nor me who does not see I can present all the arguments in the World and Satan will continue to blind you till you ask God to see I ask you all if you are so sure THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE NO FEAR OF ASKING GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART IF WHAT YOU HAVE IS FROM EVIL SPIRITS TO TAKE IT AWAY. but alas I fear you will not because you are afraid it may leave and you would rather keep your lies then see truth each to his own.dosent mean I dont love you guys I just pity you and am sad for your choice of men over God
 

Christina

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A third source from Bible Question and answers Question: "What is the gift of speaking in tongues?"Answer: The first occurrence of speaking in tongues occurred on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-4. The apostles went out and shared the Gospel with the crowds, speaking to them in their own languages, “we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" (Acts 2:11). The Greek word translated "tongues" literally means "languages." Therefore, the gift of tongues is speaking in a language a person does not know in order to minister to someone who does speak that language. In 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14, where Paul discusses miraculous gifts, he comments that, “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?" (1 Corinthians 14:6). According to the Apostle Paul, and in agreement with the tongues described in Acts, speaking in tongues is valuable to the one hearing God’s message in his/her own language, but it is useless to everyone else – unless it is interpreted / translated.A person with the gift of interpreting tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30) could understand what a tongues-speaker was saying even though he/she did not know the language that was being spoken. The tongues-interpreter would then communicate the message of the tongues-speaker to everyone else, so all could understand. “For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says” (1 Corinthians 14:13). Paul’s conclusion regarding un-interpreted tongues is powerful, “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue" (1 Corinthians 14:19).Is the gift of tongues for today? 1 Corinthians 13:8 mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the language in prophecy and knowledge "ceasing" with tongues "being ceased" as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the "perfect." While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11 and Joel 2:28-29 as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. 1 Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a "sign to unbelievers." According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.At the same time, if the gift of speaking in tongues were active in the church today, it would be performed in agreement with Scripture. It would be a real and intelligible language (1 Corinthians 14:10). It would be for the purpose of communicating God's Word with a person of another language (Acts 2:6-12). It would be in agreement with the command that God gave through the Apostle Paul, "If anyone speaks in a tongue, two — or at the most three — should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God" (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). It would also be in submission to 1 Corinthians 14:33, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”God most definitely can give a person the gift of speaking in tongues to enable him/her to communicate with a person who speaks another language. The Holy Spirit is sovereign in the dispersion of the spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). Just imagine how much more productive missionaries could be if they didn’t have to go to language school, and were instantly able to speak to people in their own language. However, God does not seem to be doing this. Tongues does not seem to occur today in the form it did in the New Testament despite the fact that it would be immensely useful. The vast majority of believers who claim to practice the gift of speaking in tongues do not do so in agreement with the Scriptures mentioned above. These facts lead to the conclusion that the gift of tongues has ceased, or is at least a rarity in God's plan for the church today.
 

Christina

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but alas I could post all day and you guys would still say its my opinion and everyone else can not see but Gods word is plain and does not say what you insist it doesyou have chosen men over God
 

setfree

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Kriss,You challenge my beliefs, I will admit that. But only God can give me peace, and this is where I stand. You are wrong about asking God to take this away, because I struggled with this for a long time. # 1 I did not seek this, I sought after God, as a matter of fact I fought against it, because I was taught the gifts no longer existed. There are a lot of things in the Spirit that you will not understand with your mind. Your choosing not to believe(faith) is one reason that you do not experience. When I accepted Jesus as my Saviour, I did not understand in my mind what salvation was all about. Just that I was a sinner and needed a saviour. Jesus (salvation) is the door into the spiritual. There is more to experience and learn!
 

Christina

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To all my brothers and Sisters who Have thought something wrong with you because you never spoke an unknown tongue and had friends family or church members tell you that you had really received the Holy spirit I say read these post and links An thank God that he protected you in your ignorance from this Lie. For it is You are are truly filled with the Holy Spirit for Evil and God can not survive together and one will eventully winthank God today that you are so filled with his Holy Spirit there was no room for Satan's lie to men to enter unto You for it is as I have shown you in Gods Word 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you alAnd that One baptism is Belief and repentance as Jesus Christ has told you when you do that you have received the Holy Spirit in wholeStay in his Word and you will never go wrong
 

setfree

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(kriss;41633)
To all my brothers and Sisters who Have thought something wrong with you because you never spoke an unknown tongue and had friends family or church members tell you that you had really received the Holy spirit I say read these post and links An thank God that he protected you in your ignorance from this Lie. For it is You are are truly filled with the Holy Spirit for Evil and God can not survive together and one will eventully winthank God today that you are so filled with his Holy Spirit there was no room for Satan's lie to men to enter unto You for it is as I have shown you in Gods Word 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you alAnd that One baptism is Belief and repentance as Jesus Christ has told you when you do that you have received the Holy Spirit in wholeStay in his Word and you will never go wrong
Just to set the record straight....I never in any of my post say that you had to speak in tongues to be saved! I have never mentioned more than one baptism! And God will not lie to me or give me a stone when I ask for bread.
 

Christina

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This post wasnt addressed to you Setfree and you can not have it both ways If you believe in tongue you have to accept there is a seprate baptism that is the teaching and I never said you did but that is the togue teaching that if you are truly saved the holy ghost will come on you and speak in unknown tongues You either accept their teaching or Gods you can not have it both ways God never promises any thing unknown only this strange new unknown baptism of men prosises this so if God dosent say it and you do not believe the teachings about the new baptism where is it coming from ??? For evil will masqurade as Good and Gods Word never teaches any mutteringIsa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? My advise pray for it to be gone
 

setfree

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THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY-GOD'S WAY! But for you to say your way is God's way without explaining scriptures in context????? Now, again to untwist what you said...I never said there was a seperate baptism, and I do not have to believe there is, as you stated. I do not have to believe their way or your way. Where I stand is on the scriptures-not your interpretaion of the scriptures. I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit including speaking in tongues(languages)! NOT BABBLE, MUTTERING! YOu seem to enjoy putting words in peoples post(mouth).
 

Christina

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(setfree;41637)
Just to set the record straight....I never in any of my post say that you had to speak in tongues to be saved! I have never mentioned more than one baptism! And God will not lie to me or give me a stone when I ask for bread.
Let me ask you a question Setfree Assume for a moment that it is as I and all the other expert opinons I have posted are right and this is NOT from God then you were asking God to give you a gift that was from the devil How long did you pray and ask God for for a gift from Satan's own mind. And who was it that answered that prayer for you I certainly do not think it was God. Sometimes we should be careful what we ask for.
 

Christina

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(setfree;41642)
THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY-GOD'S WAY! But for you to say your way is God's way without explaining scriptures in context????? Now, again to untwist what you said...I never said there was a seperate baptism, and I do not have to believe there is, as you stated. I do not have to believe their way or your way. Where I stand is on the scriptures-not your interpretaion of the scriptures. I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit including speaking in tongues(languages)! NOT BABBLE, MUTTERING! YOu seem to enjoy putting words in peoples post(mouth).
I have given you scripture after scripture after scripture I have given other experts defining scripture yet you are still blind why is that ??? I can give you any more scripture I have given you nothing but scripture you can not see it something is blinding you and its not God
 

Christina

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Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. So what do we see a cloven tounge what does that mean CLOVEN:to be divided into opposing parts, to be at variance, in dissension3) to distributeSo what we have here is a language that by the fire of God (god is a consuming fire)was split up and a language given to each to speak in not one language each was given a language seperaterated from Gods languageAct 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. They were filled with the holy spirit of God the same spirit they were baptised withand they began to talk each with the seperate language they were given to speakand the spirit of told them whay to say Act 2:5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Men of every nation on earth and speaking every language on earth were there Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.And they were confused because suddenly every man was hearing heard them in their own Language each aspostel/disciple was speaking in a different language so that all their could hear and understand This was no garbelling confused lanuage this was each person speaking in a differnt language of every nation on earth and everyone understood what they were hearing it was Gods word the bible that was being said taught them the prophesizing that the Word would be taught throught the world and that then Christ would returnThat was the miracle of Penecost Day remember it was God at the tower of Babble that divied up or clove(split) the languages.Now know one THAT IS NO ONE ON EARTH SPEAKS GODS LANGUAGE HE DECLARED IT WHAT GOD DID ON PENTCOST DAY WAS ALLOW HIS LANGUAGE TO BE SPLIT AMONG EACH DISCIPLE so that Hebrew was now speaking Greek a greek was now speaking Hebrew.NO WHERE EXCEPT IN THE MINDS OF MIS LEAD MEN IS THERE ANY UNKNOWN LANGUAGE SPOKE BY ANY MAN Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?__________________This is called scripture Setfree read post 29 more scripture I have addressed scripture after scripture in Alan posts how much morescripture do you want you are the one who has provived no scripture just your belif and opinion.
 

Christina

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(setfree;41642)
THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY-GOD'S WAY! But for you to say your way is God's way without explaining scriptures in context????? Now, again to untwist what you said...I never said there was a seperate baptism, and I do not have to believe there is, as you stated. I do not have to believe their way or your way. Where I stand is on the scriptures-not your interpretaion of the scriptures. I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit including speaking in tongues(languages)! NOT BABBLE, MUTTERING! YOu seem to enjoy putting words in peoples post(mouth).
Again as I have proven over and over and over THE GIFT WAS NOT AN UNKNOWN TONGUE IT WAS KNOWN LANGUAGES OF OTHER NATION AND PEOPLE NOWHERE IS THERE A GIFT OF UNKNOW LANGUAGE TO RECEIVE THERE IS NO SUCH THING its not my belief there is nothing ever written about a gift of unknown language
 

setfree

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(kriss;41643)
Let me ask you a question Setfree Assume for a moment that it is as I and all the other expert opinons I have posted are right and this is NOT from God I have thought as you are thinking and have stood where you stand.then you were asking God to give you a gift that was from the devil How long did you pray and ask God for for a gift from Satan's own mind.I did not go to God for the gifts, I went to God to teach me the truth. I had someone (just as I have tried to tell you), trying to convince me that the gifts have not ceased. I had all the arguments that you have stated. I do not appreciate you insinuating that I ask God for the devils gifts. Where did I say I ask God for the gifts? I said I asked God for truth. And who was it that answered that prayer for you I certainly do not think it was God. Are you saying that when I went to my heavenly father in search of truth, he would not answer me? He knows my heart, you do not, but you judge me as you do. Sometimes we should be careful what we ask for.
I ask for truth, and the Holy Spirit led me to the truth.
 

Christina

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Well call it what you will there is still no gift of any unkowm tongue where it comes from is up to you I can only tell you what is in Gods Word and it says the gift was to speak and understand the language of other nations as God at the tower of Babble divided them That is not from me its what all say its what God sayswhat ever language you talk in wasnt one of Gods natural langues given to the nations and that was the gift he offered understanding and speaking natural mens languages as he gave them. not an unknown thing
 

setfree

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(kriss;41647)
Again as I have proven over and over and over THE GIFT WAS NOT AN UNKNOWN TONGUE IT WAS KNOWN LANGUAGES OF OTHER NATION AND PEOPLE NOWHERE IS THERE A GIFT OF UNKNOW LANGUAGE TO RECEIVE THERE IS NO SUCH THING its not my belief there is nothing ever written about a gift of unknown language
Where in my post did I say unknown?But... the Word of God says That if I pray in tongues, my spirit prays, but I do not understand ( my mind is not yielding knowledge).
 

setfree

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(kriss;41650)
Well call it what you will there is still no gift of any unkowm tongue where it comes from is up to you I can only tell you what is in Gods Word and it says the gift was to speak and understand the language of other nations as God at the tower of Babble divided them That is not from me its what all say its what God sayswhat ever language you talk in wasnt one of Gods natural langues given to the nations and that was the gift he offered understanding and speaking natural mens languages as he gave them. not an unknown thing
How do you know the language I pray in is not a language? Have you heard my prayers? You are judging what you do not know.
 

Christina

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The word says the gift is natrural languages of all the nations under the heavensthat means world yet you say you know a langage of prayer that God never speaks of he never gave any special prayer language if you pray in your natural langage your spist pray with you your mind is blinded to his words because you believe a lie you say you dont pray in an unknown tongue well God only knows his own langages he gave the world and if its God language you would understand every word you said that is the proof its from God its understood by all that hear it.So you tell me if you dont understand it its not from God he says his is understood by alland its not a natural langage of the nationsyou tell me what is it?? and from where did it come
 

Christina

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(setfree;41652)
How do you know the language I pray in is not a language? Have you heard my prayers? You are judging what you do not know.
Because you dont understand it whats the point God gives this gift to those he sends out into the World to preach/teach God doesnt just make one speak chinese for no reason Paul taught aginst this I would rather you speak 10 words you understand than 10000 you do not because it serves no purpose Paul wasnt telling you to do this he was teaching aganst it
 
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