CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

aspen · Jul 22, 2018

twinc said:
we had no free choice in our creation nor do we have one in our salvation - as Christians asnd children of God we are saved despite the wiles and snares of devils and despite ourselves this is the lost good news and glad tidings of great joy imho - twinc

So you believe like a Calvanist? Some people were created for Heaven and the majority of people were created for Hell? You know this does not match up with Catholic doctrine, right? It also nulifies Christ’s sacrifice on the cross - he died for our salvation, but only for a few who were already created for salvation....

Helen · Jul 22, 2018

aspen said:
So you believe like a Calvanist? Some people were created for Heaven and the majority of people were created for Hell? You know this does not match up with Catholic doctrine, right? It also nulifies Christ’s sacrifice on the cross - he died for our salvation, but only for a few who were already created for salvation....

No, I am sure that he doesn't.

He has said many times that at the end the none Christian will end up christians. Which as you know...I do too

aspen · Jul 22, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
No, I am sure that he doesn't.

He has said many times that at the end the none Christian will end up christians. Which as you know...I do too

Huh?

H. Richard · Jul 22, 2018

Nancy said:
This is what I believe is referred to as the "saving grace". If one has sincerely surrendered all to God Almighty, and believed in Jesus and agreed with God that we are sinners in need of the ONLY Savior available to us...we cannot help but to be truly changed persons. Sin does not fit the believer anymore. Once our eyes ad ears are opened, how could one EVER go back? It's the seeds that are not allowed to take root that fall on rocky ground...those were never truly saved...IMO. Good post @Taken.

***

Nancy, it is a common error that God changes the sinful flesh to be non-sinful flesh. Paul, in Romans 7 never said he became perfect after his salvation. When a person starts thinking they are changed and do not sin any longer in the flesh they become self-righteous and soon forget that they still sin in the flesh.

On these Christian labeled forums most only wish to say what others are to do to be saved and it usually boils down to their wanting others to think they never sin any longer. But God knows they do. That is why He established the Gospel of Grace.

A child of God lives in sinful flesh and has two natures. A sinful one of the flesh and a spiritual one of faith in God's work on the cross. Walking in the spirit is walking in faith. Faith has no substance and is spiritual. God knows I sin in the flesh but as long as I have faith in His work to save me I am spiritually in Him.

aspen · Jul 22, 2018

H. Richard said:
***

Nancy, it is a common error that God changes the sinful flesh to be non-sinful flesh. Paul, in Romans 7 never said he became perfect after his salvation. When a person starts thinking they are changed and do not sin any longer in the flesh they become self-righteous and soon forget that that they still sin in the flesh.

On these Christian labeled forms most only wish to say what others are to do to be saved and it usually boils down to their wanting others to think they never sin any longer. But God knows they do. That is why He established the Gospel of Grace.

A child of God lives in sinful flesh and has two natures. A sinful one of the flesh and a spiritual one of faith in God's work on the cross. Walking in the spirit is walking in faith. Faith has no substance and is spiritual. God knows I sin in the flesh but as long as I have faith in His work to save me I am spiritually in Him.

Another misconception of Christians who have been ensnared by gnostic teachings is that the ‘flesh’ that Paul is referring to is our bodies. Christians who hold to orthodox teachings know that flesh refers to sinful and worldly desire not our bodies. In fact, bodily ressurection is a cornerstone of orthodox teaching - God redeems our entire soul, body + spirit and ressurects us on the last day.

Nancy · Jul 22, 2018

H. Richard said:
***

Nancy, it is a common error that God changes the sinful flesh to be non-sinful flesh. Paul, in Romans 7 never said he became perfect after his salvation. When a person starts thinking they are changed and do not sin any longer in the flesh they become self-righteous and soon forget that they still sin in the flesh.

On these Christian labeled forums most only wish to say what others are to do to be saved and it usually boils down to their wanting others to think they never sin any longer. But God knows they do. That is why He established the Gospel of Grace.

A child of God lives in sinful flesh and has two natures. A sinful one of the flesh and a spiritual one of faith in God's work on the cross. Walking in the spirit is walking in faith. Faith has no substance and is spiritual. God knows I sin in the flesh but as long as I have faith in His work to save me I am spiritually in Him.

Yes, I haven't said we will never sin again-I should have been a bit clearer, we no longer are slaves to sin, it does not feel natural to a true believer, we will sin until the day we are taken home to be with The Lord.
Flesh in and of itself IS sinful, we either walk in the Spirit, or we walk in the flesh. We are not to LIVE in the flesh but, grow our faith and trust in Him each day. The battle of the flesh and satan will continue in our mortal bodies it's what you do when you sin...repent.
"Faith has no substance..." <--- on the contrary:
Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Peace!

Nancy · Jul 22, 2018

Nancy said:
Yes, I haven't said we will never sin again-I should have been a bit clearer, we no longer are slaves to sin, it does not feel natural to a true believer, we will sin until the day we are taken home to be with The Lord.
Flesh in and of itself IS sinful, we either walk in the Spirit, or we walk in the flesh. We are not to LIVE in the flesh but, grow our faith and trust in Him each day. The battle of the flesh and satan will continue in our mortal bodies it's what you do when you sin...repent.
"Faith has no substance..." <--- on the contrary:
Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Peace!

EDIT-. I should have said The battle of the flesh and Spirit will continue in our mortal bodies--I am speaking spiritual here, principalities and powers, the real war...not talking about our Zute Suit skin/flesh, lol.

Taken · Jul 22, 2018

Nancy said:
This is what I believe is referred to as the "saving grace". If one has sincerely surrendered all to God Almighty, and believed in Jesus and agreed with God that we are sinners in need of the ONLY Savior available to us...we cannot help but to be truly changed persons. Sin does not fit the believer anymore. Once our eyes ad ears are opened, how could one EVER go back? It's the seeds that are not allowed to take root that fall on rocky ground...those were never truly saved...IMO. Good post.

As repeatedly revealed YOU and I agree in Standing with the Word of God.

God Bless you abundantly,
Taken

Taken · Jul 22, 2018

aspen said:
If you believe in free choice, how can you believe that we cannot choose to end a relationship with anyone, including Jesus?

You Can believe and then stop believing essentially ending a A STEP TOWARD Having a relationship With the Lord TO BECOME Established.

The Actual Establishing of a relationship With the Lord is NOT some kind of, sort of, half-baked, whimsical, Mindful idea for a man to Try to see IF it suites him.

The Conditions to establish a Relationship With the Lord Are Clear-cut.

Hear and Learn ABOUT Him.

Continue Hearing and Learning About Him, Because THAT is How one Coninues Receiving FAITH from Him. <--- That is ENLIGHTMENT.
Effected To the man By The Power of God, through The Word of God being received unto the man, Because of Gods Grace, unto the man FOR the mans Continued Hearing and Learning About Him.

That does not constitute a relationship With the Lord.

As a man chooses to continue to follow...
He is receiving FAITH.

As the mans Faith increases (which BTW, affects His Heart)...

And the man Himself Feels in his own heart the Effect of the Faith.....

That man is prepared...by His OWN Freewill To ...call on the Lord and Confess his heartfelt Belief and Repent...... OR Not.

Scripture says:
1) Be sure of your choice
2) Let Your YES be Yes

You are making a permanent Choice TO Willfully Surrender your Life TO the Lord Forever.

How precisely can you tell me THAT Can be Undone, By Any man?

God Bless,
Taken

Taken · Jul 22, 2018

twinc said:
we had no free choice in our creation

Agree.
Natural born babies had no choice in the matter and may certainly enter this world kicking and screaming and even complain of having been born.

nor do we have one in our salvation

Disagree.
No one is forced or drug kicking and screaming in complaint of being Saved.

God Bless,
Taken

Nancy · Jul 22, 2018

Taken said:
As repeatedly revealed YOU and I agree in Standing with the Word of God.

God Bless you abundantly,
Taken

Well, why do ya think I'm following you it's always good to know that somebody else believes much of what I do. Confirms allot of beliefs I hold as well...not that I am un-teachable! lol
Grace and peace to you brother,
-nancy

GodsGrace · Jul 23, 2018

soul man said:
The mind, the knowledge of good and evil, it will not allow grace to function. It is a controller of the nature, when the believer had a sin nature it had to be controlled, hence the law. The new nature does not need to be controlled, the mind needs to be compatible with the new Christ in you nature.

By the mind, I would safely assume you mean our will or our soul.
Our soul is not a good controller of our sin nature. The law was not to control our sin nature, but to let us know we had one.

Romans 7:7-12
7What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOTCOVET.” 8But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

Our new nature is controlled by the Holy Spirit. We are to renew our mind, our soul --- which is controlled by our spirit.

Romans 12:2
2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

I believe this is what you meant to say...

Mjh29 · Jul 23, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Really?? WHO gave YOU the right to make that determination??
Certainly NOT God . . .

Ezekiel 44:23. Yes, He DID give us the right. We are to look for the signs of grace in a believer's life, and if they "fall away", they never had the Spirit truly working in their lives. It seems you dknt like the fact that my God is effective, not affective. When He sets out to do something, HE DOES IT!!

BreadOfLife said:
Secondly - the Church teaches that outside the Church there is no salvation.

John 14:6 -- I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life, no man comes to the father except by the church?... oh, wait no... it doesn't say that, does it?

John 16:13 -- The church? will guide you unto all truth.... huh, thats nit right... not there either.

John 4:14 -- But whoever drinks the water the church? gives him will never thirst. Indeed, the water the church? give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life. Darn.... I just cant find it anywhere!!

I am not at all saying that church is pointless, far from it, it is an ESSENTIAL in the believers life. However, it is not the church that saves, It is God, through Christ's blood, through the work of the Holy Spirit.

BreadOfLife said:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847).

Um.... contradiction anyone? You just said you believe there is no Salvation out of the Church, and yet you claim that these people, 'If they try their very best', can be counted as elect? What a constantly-changing, jello- based theology!
But then again, when you save yourself and its up to you to make Jesus blood mean something, what more can you expect? And before you say that these select few are a "special case"

BreadOfLife said:
As for God intervening as in the Case of Pharoah or Moses or David or Mary - these are exceptions - and you never base a doctrine on the exception, but the NORM

.

BreadOfLife said:
When Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for the reactions to the curing of the Blind Man - they said:
John 9:40-41
Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this and said to him, “Surely we are not also blind, are we?”
Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you are saying, ‘We see,’ so your sin remains.

Matthew Henry's Commentary:
9:39-41 Christ came into the world to give sight to those who were spiritually blind. Also, that those who see might be made blind; that those who have a high conceit of their own wisdom, might be sealed up in ignorance. The preaching of the cross was thought to be folly by such as by carnal wisdom knew not God. Nothing fortifies men's corrupt hearts against the convictions of the word, more than the high opinion which others have of them; as if all that gained applause with men, must obtain acceptance with God. Christ silenced them. But the sin of the self-conceited and self-confident remains; they reject the gospel of grace, therefore the guilt of their sin remains unpardoned, and the power of their sin remains unbroken.

Taken · Jul 23, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
And, as you have been repeatedly shown - Epignosis isn't about simply "knowing",
There are already Greek words for that (Oida, Gnosis).

No - as I have educated YOU and Stranger and APAK and everybody else who refuses to accept - Epignosis is a FULL, experiential and complete knowledge. As I presented earlier - the consensus of PROTESTANT scholarship agrees and goes even further.

The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament refers to Epignosis as "Christian Faith". As eminent Protestant theologian J. N. Lightfoot commented:
"Hence also epignosis is used especially of the knowledge of God and of Christ, as being the perfection of knowledge” (St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians and Philemon, page 138).

You can try to wriggle your way out of this until the cows cone home but you will NEVER be able to change the meaning of the term, "Epignosis" . . .

Look ~
The OP is ABOUT "falling away".
The OSAS OP is ABOUT "ONCE" something Particular "HAS OCCURED" can a man fall AWAY.

You have bombarded both OP's with your Understanding that A MAN CAN FALL AWAY...
"AFTER" a Particular event "HAS OCCURED".

The Particular "EVENT" IS the man "BEING" Converted BY AND THROUGH Christ the Lord.

It is not a SECRET...nor have you "TAUGHT" anyone you named, "SOMETHING NEW"....
WHO ALREADY KNEW;
One of the Benefits of a man BEING Converted, IS the mans blessing of having "the Lords Word" to:
FOREVER LIFE with the Lord, that you argue AGAINST;
"ACCESS To";
More Knowledge Spiritually given the man.
"ACCESS" To;
Gods "UNDERSTANDING" of His Own Word.

You want to call the ACCESS TO MORE Knowledge ----> Epignosis....Because the Greeks did, Because your Church does....
Okay. No one cares. Nor is it the POINT.

The POINT is "Falling AWAY"....
The POINT is "WHEN can a man "FALL AWAY", and WHEN has "FALLING AWAY" become IMPOSSIBLE and "WHY".

The POINT is; A man WHO HAS BEEN CONVERTED, CAN NEVER FALL AWAY.

Such a man "IS KEPT" in faithfulness to the Lord AND God, FOREVER, "BY and THROUGH" the INDWELLING POWER OF God!!

You continue an irrelevant argument BASED on your rendition of DECIDING some "UN-NAMED" men, Their Beliefs, Their Submission of having BEEN Converted.....
WHILE NOT ONCE....

Revealing the Facts....
Providing ONE named man;
Providing THEIR testimony of Conversion;
Providing THEIR testimony of Rejection.

IOW....YOU are implying FACTS are present...
BUT NOT ONCE do you PROVIDE ONE Scripture to reveal these SUPPOSED Facts.

As far as YOUR TEACHING a Converted man CAN FALL AWAY....<--- THAT is in Complete Rejection and Opposition to WHAT the Word of God teaches.

Men WHO become Converted ARE FOREVER with the Lord, in the Lord and the Lord in them.

No one can Separate THAT MAN FROM THE Lord, ever again.

No one is interested in your side bar arguments of Epignosis.

You appear to be UNKNOWING, the Lord is "with" men WHILE a man is being "enlightened" with HIS WORD.

And you appear to be UNKNOWING, the Lord is "with and IN" a man When a man "IS CONVERTED".

THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE, that you appear to be incapable of understanding.

Provide the facts out of the mouths of these Un-named men, YOU CLAIM, were Converted, and then fell AWAY.

1 Cor 2:11
For what man?? (BOL?) knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?

Or stick with your MO, whining about being responded to, and continue on your side bar argument, without facts, and in complete opposition to the Word of God.

John 10:28
And I GIVE unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they SHALL NEVER Perish, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.

John 14:16
And I WILL pray the Father, and HE SHALL give you another Comforter that He may ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER.

1 John 3: 9
WHOSOEVER "IS" born of God doth NOT COMMIT sin; FOR(Because) His SEED Remains "IN" him: and he cannot sin, BECAUSE he "IS" born of God.

A Converted man "IS" born of God.
That man "IS" healed.
Forever the Lord "IS" "WITH" AND "IN" that man.

NO MAN can UNDO that.

Matt 13:15
Matt 18:3
John 12:40
Acts 3:19
Acts 28:27

Go Learn the TRUTH of Gods Word.
Trust to Believe IT.
Refrain from your teachings AGAINST His TRUTH, with your mindful understanding...
No one is interested in hearing your repeated over and over mindful teaching. It has been rejected over and over, and your persistence will not corrupt the hearts of men who have ALREADY submitted their Life TO the Lord and have ALREADY become healed and Converted.

BreadOfLife · Jul 23, 2018

Mjh29 said:
Ezekiel 44:23. Yes, He DID give us the right. We are to look for the signs of grace in a believer's life, and if they "fall away", they never had the Spirit truly working in their lives. It seems you dknt like the fact that my God is effective, not affective. When He sets out to do something, HE DOES IT!!

WRONG.

First of all - this is referring to the LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD - not individual Christians.
YOU are in NO position to decide who is "saved" and who is not.

Whereas, we are called to judge a persons fruits - you are NOT to judge their souls (Matt. 7:1-5). This is reserved for GOD alone (1 Kings 8:39).

Mjh29 said:
John 14:6 -- I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life, no man comes to the father except by the church?... oh, wait no... it doesn't say that, does it?

John 16:13 -- The church? will guide you unto all truth.... huh, thats nit right... not there either.

John 4:14 -- But whoever drinks the water the church? gives him will never thirst. Indeed, the water the church? give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life. Darn.... I just cant find it anywhere!!

I am not at all saying that church is pointless, far from it, it is an ESSENTIAL in the believers life. However, it is not the church that saves, It is God, through Christ's blood, through the work of the Holy Spirit.

I didn't say that we're saved BY the Church. We're saved by the perfect sacrifice of Christ on the cross - and our cooperation with that grace.
HOWEVER - we are saved THROUGH His Church (Matt. 28:16-20).

Mjh29 said:
Um.... contradiction anyone? You just said you believe there is no Salvation out of the Church, and yet you claim that these people, 'If they try their very best', can be counted as elect? What a constantly-changing, jello- based theology!
But then again, when you save yourself and its up to you to make Jesus blood mean something, what more can you expect? And before you say that these select few are a "special case"

.
That's because YOU don't understand what "Outside the Church" means.
Invincible ignorance is a teaching that comes directly from the Gospel (John 9:41, 15:22) - which came from the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15).

As for "saving myself" - not sure where you get that absurdity.
No "contradiction" here - just more of YOUR nonsense . . .

GodsGrace · Jul 23, 2018

Mjh29 said:
Ezekiel 44:23. Yes, He DID give us the right. We are to look for the signs of grace in a believer's life, and if they "fall away", they never had the Spirit truly working in their lives. It seems you dknt like the fact that my God is effective, not affective. When He sets out to do something, HE DOES IT!!

John 14:6 -- I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life, no man comes to the father except by the church?... oh, wait no... it doesn't say that, does it?

John 16:13 -- The church? will guide you unto all truth.... huh, thats nit right... not there either.

John 4:14 -- But whoever drinks the water the church? gives him will never thirst. Indeed, the water the church? give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life. Darn.... I just cant find it anywhere!!

I am not at all saying that church is pointless, far from it, it is an ESSENTIAL in the believers life. However, it is not the church that saves, It is God, through Christ's blood, through the work of the Holy Spirit.

Um.... contradiction anyone? You just said you believe there is no Salvation out of the Church, and yet you claim that these people, 'If they try their very best', can be counted as elect? What a constantly-changing, jello- based theology!
But then again, when you save yourself and its up to you to make Jesus blood mean something, what more can you expect? And before you say that these select few are a "special case"
.

Matthew Henry's Commentary:
9:39-41 Christ came into the world to give sight to those who were spiritually blind. Also, that those who see might be made blind; that those who have a high conceit of their own wisdom, might be sealed up in ignorance. The preaching of the cross was thought to be folly by such as by carnal wisdom knew not God. Nothing fortifies men's corrupt hearts against the convictions of the word, more than the high opinion which others have of them; as if all that gained applause with men, must obtain acceptance with God. Christ silenced them. But the sin of the self-conceited and self-confident remains; they reject the gospel of grace, therefore the guilt of their sin remains unpardoned, and the power of their sin remains unbroken.

Mathew Henry. Right. Wait...let me go get a commentator that agrees with MY church.

As to the highlighted above...I'd like to ask you what you think happens to a person living in the deep forests of South America that never heard of Jesus since He is the way, as you've stated, and as BreadofLife has correctly stated that if His heart is searching for God he is saved.

I suppose the short answer is that GOD WILL HANDLE IT, since He handles ALL salvations.... but, let's see.

P.S. I'd also be interested in knowing HOW a person saves himself; or how you THINK silly persons such as myself THINK they could save themselves.

BreadOfLife · Jul 23, 2018

Taken said:
Look ~
The OP is ABOUT "falling away".
The OSAS OP is ABOUT "ONCE" something Particular "HAS OCCURED" can a man fall AWAY.

You have bombarded both OP's with your Understanding that A MAN CAN FALL AWAY...
"AFTER" a Particular event "HAS OCCURED".

The Particular "EVENT" IS the man "BEING" Converted BY AND THROUGH Christ the Lord.

It is not a SECRET...nor have you "TAUGHT" anyone you named, "SOMETHING NEW"....
WHO ALREADY KNEW;
One of the Benefits of a man BEING Converted, IS the mans blessing of having "the Lords Word" to:
FOREVER LIFE with the Lord, that you argue AGAINST;
"ACCESS To";
More Knowledge Spiritually given the man.
"ACCESS" To;
Gods "UNDERSTANDING" of His Own Word.

You want to call the ACCESS TO MORE Knowledge ----> Epignosis....Because the Greeks did, Because your Church does....
Okay. No one cares. Nor is it the POINT.

The POINT is "Falling AWAY"....
The POINT is "WHEN can a man "FALL AWAY", and WHEN has "FALLING AWAY" become IMPOSSIBLE and "WHY".

The POINT is; A man WHO HAS BEEN CONVERTED, CAN NEVER FALL AWAY.

Such a man "IS KEPT" in faithfulness to the Lord AND God, FOREVER, "BY and THROUGH" the INDWELLING POWER OF God!!

You continue an irrelevant argument BASED on your rendition of DECIDING some "UN-NAMED" men, Their Beliefs, Their Submission of having BEEN Converted.....
WHILE NOT ONCE....

Revealing the Facts....
Providing ONE named man;
Providing THEIR testimony of Conversion;
Providing THEIR testimony of Rejection.

IOW....YOU are implying FACTS are present...
BUT NOT ONCE do you PROVIDE ONE Scripture to reveal these SUPPOSED Facts.

As far as YOUR TEACHING a Converted man CAN FALL AWAY....<--- THAT is in Complete Rejection and Opposition to WHAT the Word of God teaches.

Men WHO become Converted ARE FOREVER with the Lord, in the Lord and the Lord in them.

No one can Separate THAT MAN FROM THE Lord, ever again.

No one is interested in your side bar arguments of Epignosis.

You appear to be UNKNOWING, the Lord is "with" men WHILE a man is being "enlightened" with HIS WORD.

And you appear to be UNKNOWING, the Lord is "with and IN" a man When a man "IS CONVERTED".

THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE, that you appear to be incapable of understanding.

Provide the facts out of the mouths of these Un-named men, YOU CLAIM, were Converted, and then fell AWAY.

1 Cor 2:11
For what man?? (BOL?) knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?

Or stick with your MO, whining about being responded to, and continue on your side bar argument, without facts, and in complete opposition to the Word of God.

John 10:28
And I GIVE unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they SHALL NEVER Perish, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.

John 14:16
And I WILL pray the Father, and HE SHALL give you another Comforter that He may ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER.

1 John 3: 9
WHOSOEVER "IS" born of God doth NOT COMMIT sin; FOR(Because) His SEED Remains "IN" him: and he cannot sin, BECAUSE he "IS" born of God.

A Converted man "IS" born of God.
That man "IS" healed.
Forever the Lord "IS" "WITH" AND "IN" that man.

NO MAN can UNDO that.

Matt 13:15
Matt 18:3
John 12:40
Acts 3:19
Acts 28:27

Go Learn the TRUTH of Gods Word.
Trust to Believe IT.
Refrain from your teachings AGAINST His TRUTH, with your mindful understanding...
No one is interested in hearing your repeated over and over mindful teaching. It has been rejected over and over, and your persistence will not corrupt the hearts of men who have ALREADY submitted their Life TO the Lord and have ALREADY become healed and Converted.

Thanks for another LONG-WINDED, albeit, empty response.

YOUR understanding that once a man is converted, he is sentenced to en eternity with the Lord - whether he wants to remain or not. As I have shown - this is anti-Biblical nonsense.
A person has the choice to stay or leave - and has that choice right up to the time he leaves this world.

Just because God is faithful to HIS promises - doesn't mean that MEN are.
You are free to jump off of that rescue boat ANY time you wish - without ANYBODY forcing you to stay on. The following verses prove this (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

GodsGrace · Jul 23, 2018

H. Richard said:
***

Nancy, it is a common error that God changes the sinful flesh to be non-sinful flesh. Paul, in Romans 7 never said he became perfect after his salvation. When a person starts thinking they are changed and do not sin any longer in the flesh they become self-righteous and soon forget that they still sin in the flesh.

On these Christian labeled forums most only wish to say what others are to do to be saved and it usually boils down to their wanting others to think they never sin any longer. But God knows they do. That is why He established the Gospel of Grace.

A child of God lives in sinful flesh and has two natures. A sinful one of the flesh and a spiritual one of faith in God's work on the cross. Walking in the spirit is walking in faith. Faith has no substance and is spiritual. God knows I sin in the flesh but as long as I have faith in His work to save me I am spiritually in Him.

HR, How does a person have two natures?
We have one nature...it is a sinful nature. Some call it the flesh and some call it the sin (or sinful) nature.

Before coming to God we tend toward evil. Our nature is in sin and is in bondage to satan. This is why some believe in the spiritual atonement of Jesus....that is that He sacrificed Himself to release us from the bondage to satan. (as opposed to any other theory of atonement).

After salvation we tend toward good. We are told to renew our mind: our will and soul, every day in Romans 12.

But we cannot walk BOTH in the flesh, IN SIN NATURE, AND in the spirit.
One will always be the ruling walk...our walk is to be in the spirit. This does not mean we will not sin anymore...it means we will TEND not to sin.

Romans 8:1-14....
1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Those who are born again are no longer to walk in the flesh, or the sin nature, but we are to walk in the spirit, if indeed the Holy Spirit dwells in us, as stated above in Romans.

And when we sin, we have an advocate with the Father.
1 John 2:1
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Grams · Jul 23, 2018

GOD understands we are all sinners...

Upon belief - we are forgiven

In our hearts we tell GOD we are sorry.........

GOD knows that no one is perfect !

Mjh29 · Jul 23, 2018

GodsGrace said:
Mathew Henry. Right. Wait...let me go get a commentator that agrees with MY church.

um.... I'm Presbyterian.... He's a Nonconformist. Yeah, um that's not true. In fact, I purposely selected a minister who was NOT of my denomination.

GodsGrace said:
As to the highlighted above...I'd like to ask you what you think happens to a person living in the deep forests of South America that never heard of Jesus since He is the way, as you've stated, and as BreadofLife has correctly stated that if His heart is searching for God he is saved.

What happens to those heathen in Africa?

GodsGrace said:
I suppose the short answer is that GOD WILL HANDLE IT, since He handles ALL salvations

See! We're LEARNING!!!

Yes, whomever God will say, he will.

GodsGrace said:
P.S. I'd also be interested in knowing HOW a person saves himself; or how you THINK silly persons such as myself THINK they could save themselves.

Oh, now this is quite simple. When it boils down to it who is responsible for you coming to faith God or you? Who makes the final call?

CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

Well-Known Member

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

Well-Known Member

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads