I do see a difference between sinning and a life of sin.
This is shown in 1 John.
Other than that...well said.
Blotted out of The Book Of Life?
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This is shown in 1 John.
Other than that...well said.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
What about our graduation being our transformation? Why does it have to be the deathbed? Quite morbid. And if we'll keep taking two steps back, never making any real progress, then where does that leave the much vaunted "sanctification"?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
What about our graduation being our transformation? Why does it have to be the deathbed? Quite morbid. And if we'll keep taking two steps back, never making any real progress, then where does that leave the much vaunted "sanctification"?
Yes. I think of our deathbed as our transformation into citizens of Heaven/perfect lovers
Indeed, the Kingdom of God is within us, but until we reconcile our false self with our true self, we will not know the Kingdom - as soon as we do, we experience transformation/heaven/salvation
what's morbid about going to heaven!What about our graduation being our transformation? Why does it have to be the deathbed? Quite morbid. And if we'll keep taking two steps back, never making any real progress, then where does that leave the much vaunted "sanctification"?
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
Well dying is morbid, that's what Jesus came to defeat, the last enemy to be defeated, and none of them ever said that actually dying is a requirement. Paul says the dead rise first with those still alive and kicking coming after. So if I'm still alive when the time comes, so be it. It makes no difference to God, so it doesn't to me either.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
Well, none of the apostles said anything of the kind, but that's your problem. Some may be concerned about going to heaven, I'm not. It won't be my final destination anyway.
At least we only die once.Well dying is morbid, that's what Jesus came to defeat, the last enemy to be defeated, and none of them ever said that actually dying is a requirement. Paul says the dead rise first with those still alive and kicking coming after. So if I'm still alive when the time comes, so be it. It makes no difference to God, so it doesn't to me either.
What's your final destination?Well, none of the apostles said anything of the kind, but that's your problem. Some may be concerned about going to heaven, I'm not. It won't be my final destination anyway.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
What John said, the new earth, the only time he ever mentions "heaven" as a destination at all is as a rest stop during the seven vials judgment.What about our graduation being our transformation? Why does it have to be the deathbed? Quite morbid. And if we'll keep taking two steps back, never making any real progress, then where does that leave the much vaunted "sanctification"?
Death is a blessing Dcopy. Look around, lol. The world is insane.
No, it's mentioned in the harpazo in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 prior to Satan falling to earth. He's coming sooner than you think.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
I don't see what the dead in Christ rising first has to do with Satan getting his teeth kicked in by Michael, but whatever, people are going to put 2 & 2 together and conclude an equation of 5 somehow.
I don't see what the dead in Christ rising first has to do with Satan getting his teeth kicked in by Michael, but whatever, people are going to put 2 & 2 together and conclude an equation of 5 somehow.
The child being harpazo'd in Rev 12:5 is the body of Christ.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
John says nothing about the body of Christ in that text. He is referring to Jesus Christ, the man child, who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron, being "caught up" to God. The text is quite clear on this, but if you want to conclude that 2 + 2 = 5, then so be it. People will believe whatever they want despite what is plainly spelled out for them.
This is where people have a hard time interpreting Rev 12:1-5, is right here.
The word for Jesus ascension in Acts 1:9 is "epairó", and the word in 1 Thess 4:17, Rev 12:5 is "harpazo". These words have two different meanings in context, a lifting up in victory vs being snatched away through a rescue. Jesus didn't need to be snatched away because He already defeated the devil.
If these passages occurred 2,000 years ago and is only about Jesus then why didn't John use the word "huios" in all three circumstances below. I believe John is describing the child being born as the church (the body of Christ).
Even Paul said he felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8 because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet, and as we can see in Rev 2:26-27, Rev 12:5 the church is being mentioned here as ruling with Christ with an iron scepter.
Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon) the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son (huios), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon) was snatched up to God and to his throne.
God bless
Ok, so there's three stages to the body of Christ when discussing end times events. The scriptures below are just a collection of what I've gathered.
More than likely, there is probably more scriptures that coincide with the three stages and the travail of the body through cross reference. These passages are just the basics for now, but as long as we have the format or the outline it can make algebra look like addition.
1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception in the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5
After the conception of the church at Pentecost, whenever someone comes to faith in Christ that person gets placed into the body of Christ. For 2,000 years, His body has been in gestation growing ever so larger until the body gets to what is called a full term pregnancy. Full term is anywhere between 37 to 42 weeks, via Jupiter in the body of Virgo for 42 weeks completing the Rev 12:1-5 great sign in its awesome perfection and form.
God is using the human conception/gestation/birth story to describe His story of the divinity of the church age. Just as a child's head comes out first prior to the body, so it is with Jesus (the head of the church) ascending to heaven first prior to the body, Col 1:18...
Isa 53:11 - Jesus body in travail
Rom 8:22-25 - the body of Christ groans for their resurrected bodies
1 Cor 15:8 - Paul feels abnormally born without resurrected body
1 Cor 15:50-54/2 Cor 5:1-5 - Mortal/Immortal/Swallowed up
2 Cor 5:1-5 - the body of Christ groans for their resurrected bodies
Gal 4:19 - Paul relates travail in birth to not being formed yet
Hopefully, I've made this as easy as possible to discern. This is probably one of the most complex topics in relation to end times, but once it clicks in your mind and you see the bigger picture you will see it like a blind man opening his eyes for the first time.
Sometimes tradition isn't always right, Jhn 20:29.
I wanted to make the OP as basic as possible and not to overwhelm you in the beginning. If you have any questions let me know. God bless you.
https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/224783-three-stages-to-the-body-of-christ/
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
.....Oh so meeting the Lord in the air will just be a good feeling we'll all have one day hey? wow. Paul is clearly describing the Lords second coming in detail, but according to you, the literal, plainly written narrative is not correct, because "OH BUT THE GREEK SAYS". M'kay buddy, I always leave the language experts to their own devices.Chapters 1-5 of Revelation occurred 2,000 years ago, everything after that is a future occurrence during the Great Tribulation. And if you were paying attention to the very first words in the chapter, you would have seen the woman being clearly identified as Israel, the nation that gave birth to the "man child". The twelve stars are an allusion to the twelve tribes, not the "church".
That great city, not great church, or "great saint". 2 + 2 must always equal 4, no matter how much you don't want it to. If you are just reading Revelation assuming all of it is told in chronological order without any time jumps, you will get it wrong every single time.
I don't operate off feelings like many Christians do when speaking the facts. The facts are the facts, and leaves no room for private interpretations derived from a verse here or there taken completely out of context.
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Can you please translate. I don't know what you're saying in this post.
No, the Rev 12:1-5 sign is in reference to corporate entities and has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.
Israel - The woman
The body of Christ - The child
Antichrist system - The dragon (Rev 12-17)
This sign came to pass on 9/23/17. Dcopy, Jesus was already born. The birth in Rev 12:1-5 is the birth of the church through first resurrection and rapture. You need to go back and study the three stages of the body of Christ in post 338.
1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception in the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5
And unfortunately I'm preaching a message that has been lost throughout history, that the church was conceived at Pentecost 2000 years ago, not birthed. How do I deal with 2000 years of conditioning and brainwashing without placing everyone in a padded room?
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