How can we know that god exists?

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RobinD69

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Oct 7, 2007
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Until you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior none of the evidence will make sense to you. I am sorry but God requires that leap of faith on our part. Once you make this decision the Holy Spirit will guide to a true understanding so long as you are willing to humble yourself and follow His guidance. Another words trust in God and He will reveal so much to you you will be able to contain it. And believe me I was in you position about 8 years ago and I didnt want to accept until God saw that I was truly seeking and then He broke my heart by revealing so much truth to me and showing me I could have had this truth 15 years earlier if I had just trusted Him.Take a good look at the books I recommended, they are very insiteful.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Believe me as I say this too, I hate it as I know it will take forever, so I only came to drop a post to see if I wake them up.To tell you the Truth, with that reasoning of your own, you won't find God in your preconceived ideas. It doesn't work that way.
I am beginning to think that the only way to find god is to abandon trying to find evidence, because the search is not turning up anything. Perhaps "god" is in science, as science gives the the answers and explanations that I cannot find elsewhere. There is no faith in science, as no faith is needed, but it has none of the comforting stories of heaven or an all-knowing father that loves me. Science seems all the more rational, but also more frightening in some respects.If you can believe God can never lie then answer the question belowWhat is 2 + 2?Science can agree with God if it doesn't contradict His Words. But it is impossible for a man to detect God through lies and preconceive ideas, while it is impossible for God to lie, Every Truth goes in public...II Peter 1:20 - Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.To love one another is telling the Truth of God, today people are having a hard time trying to find God through a religion when God is not bound by a religion. Since He can't lie, He should be our relationship, we shouldn't make Him in anyway humans ought to make Him.Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
 

Cybella

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Mar 25, 2008
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(RobinD69;43248)
Until you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior none of the evidence will make sense to you. I am sorry but God requires that leap of faith on our part. Once you make this decision the Holy Spirit will guide to a true understanding so long as you are willing to humble yourself and follow His guidance. Another words trust in God and He will reveal so much to you you will be able to contain it. And believe me I was in you position about 8 years ago and I didnt want to accept until God saw that I was truly seeking and then He broke my heart by revealing so much truth to me and showing me I could have had this truth 15 years earlier if I had just trusted Him.Take a good look at the books I recommended, they are very insiteful.
In other words, I have to believe in god to believe in god? I am afraid that is something I cannot do. I was a Christian for more than half of my life, until I began to doubt and question. Things did not make sense to me then, as they do not make sense to me now. God never seemed to tell me anything, and I do not think he would again. I am looking for god, but I cannot find him. I am beginning to think I never will.
 

Jerusalem Junkie

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Jan 7, 2008
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In other words, I have to believe in god to believe in god? I am afraid that is something I cannot do. I was a Christian for more than half of my life, until I began to doubt and question. Things did not make sense to me then, as they do not make sense to me now. God never seemed to tell me anything, and I do not think he would again. I am looking for god, but I cannot find him. I am beginning to think I never will.
What are you waiting for an open invitation? I have seen hundreds of these type threads an they all end up the same way going no where. We cannot phone G-d and have him pay you a visit to prove his existence, we can quote all the scripture the Bible has to offer but if you do not believe it then its wasting our time and yours too. God is not going to pop in out of the blue and say here I am talk to me. Often times its not so much him speaking directly to us as it is listening to what is going on around us. G-ds message can often be found in the simplest action or word in your life. He his acting on you now weather you realize it or not. His presence in you is giving you the courage to be here and ask these questions. Your not the first to question G-d. Moses spent 40 years in the desert questioning G-ds every move. With all that said I see where your coming from about being a Christian that is. Often times G-d has a way of telling us to look elsewhere for our answers seek the truth and ye shall find it....
 

Cybella

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Mar 25, 2008
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I will admit that I am feeling a little strange posting this, but what happened to me last night was too strange to just wave away.Last night, I had a dream. It was not the normal sort of dream that I have, because in this one there was no sight, no images. There was only a voice, but it was a voice that did not speak to my ears as much as it did my mind. It spoke without using words, but I got the message clearly enough. I felt the numbers 46 and also 10, as if they were being written on my heart. The wordless voice seemed to tell me that someone cared enough to remember me. Through the dream, I could feel everything so clearly, but I have no idea what these numbers might mean. Could this be god trying to tell me something? And what was meant by somebody "remembering me", did one of you pray for me? Do the numbers 46 and 10 have some connection to anything in the Bible? A passage perhaps? Or, was my dream just that: a dream. I am a little shaken, and I need some help.
 

RobinD69

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Oct 7, 2007
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The 46th book in the Bible is 1 Corinthians and the 10th verse is; Now I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all say the same thing, that there be no divisions among you, and that you be with the same understanding and the same conviction.I dont see where that might help you but apparently God is reaching out to you and your communication with Christians who want to help is opening you more to God even though you cant find a reason to trust and believe in Him. What is it that you do believe in the Bible? Do you believe Christ was a real man?Ok I have looked a little further. Numbers 46:10 or 10:46 do not exist. 2 Samuel is the tenth book and the 46th verse makes no sence to your current situation but here it is. 2 Samuel 2:19 is the 46th verse of the 10th book of the Bible; He chased Abner and did not turn to the right or left in his pursuit. The only thing I can make of either of the verses i have found that coincide with your dream is that the Lord is persuing you and He wants you to have faith in Christ.If we go with the numbers themselves, I got these from a Christian book on dreams.Four- Reign: Rule; Kingdom; Creation; World.Six- Image: Man; Flesh; Carnal; Idol; Form.Ten- Measure: Try or trial; Test, or to be tested; Temptation.I would translate this to mean you need to rule over your flesh and test Gods word. I know it is hard for you because you dont believe He has reached out to you, but I honestly believe this is Him reaching out as you asked.You are in my prayers as well as many others here I am sure.
 

Jerusalem Junkie

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Jan 7, 2008
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Amen....now you see what I was talking about? Sometimes its not always a direct voice sometimes its cryptic. Your lucky Robin was there to give some explanation for you....
 

RobinD69

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Oct 7, 2007
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It actually goes along with my interpritation above. God loves you and is seeking fellowship with you and all you have to do is accept Him on His terms and the possibilities are endless.This is awesome, I hope you say yes to Him because I would love to hear what He wants to tell you.I tried the same thing you did and came up with this;http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah46.htm
 

zadzial

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Mar 23, 2008
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I will admit that I am feeling a little strange posting this, but what happened to me last night was too strange to just wave away.Last night, I had a dream. It was not the normal sort of dream that I have, because in this one there was no sight, no images. There was only a voice, but it was a voice that did not speak to my ears as much as it did my mind. It spoke without using words, but I got the message clearly enough. I felt the numbers 46 and also 10, as if they were being written on my heart. The wordless voice seemed to tell me that someone cared enough to remember me. Through the dream, I could feel everything so clearly, but I have no idea what these numbers might mean. Could this be god trying to tell me something? And what was meant by somebody "remembering me", did one of you pray for me? Do the numbers 46 and 10 have some connection to anything in the Bible? A passage perhaps? Or, was my dream just that: a dream. I am a little shaken, and I need some help.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. As to the interpretation, I have no idea. But I do know that on the night in question I did pray for you to come to know Christ. God has many ways of talking to us and getting our attention. I will continue to pray for you and other non-christians I have encountered on this forum.
 

Ricky W

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Jun 6, 2007
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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Cybella;43357)
I will admit that I am feeling a little strange posting this, but what happened to me last night was too strange to just wave away.Last night, I had a dream. It was not the normal sort of dream that I have, because in this one there was no sight, no images. There was only a voice, but it was a voice that did not speak to my ears as much as it did my mind. It spoke without using words, but I got the message clearly enough. I felt the numbers 46 and also 10, as if they were being written on my heart. The wordless voice seemed to tell me that someone cared enough to remember me. Through the dream, I could feel everything so clearly, but I have no idea what these numbers might mean. Could this be god trying to tell me something? And what was meant by somebody "remembering me", did one of you pray for me? Do the numbers 46 and 10 have some connection to anything in the Bible? A passage perhaps? Or, was my dream just that: a dream. I am a little shaken, and I need some help.
Perhaps this verse of the Quran might the one that you are looking for as well. All is in your honest heart and clear mind
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, have a nice seeking for a truth
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, we wish you find a God Almighty that you are looking for
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.Quran 10:46. Whether We let you see some of that with which We promised them, or We call you to Us, to Us they shall return. Allah is witness of the things they do.Quran 46:10. Say: 'Consider, if this (Quran) is from Allah and you disbelieve in it, and a witness from the Children of Israel testifies to its like and believes, while you are proud! Indeed, Allah does not guide the harmdoers. ' Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.(Allah Knows Bests)
 

Cybella

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Mar 25, 2008
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A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimPerhaps this verse of the Quran might the one that you are looking for as well. All is in your honest heart and clear mind
smile.gif
, have a nice seeking for a truth
smile.gif
, we wish you find a God Almighty that you are looking for
smile.gif
.Quran 10:46. Whether We let you see some of that with which We promised them, or We call you to Us, to Us they shall return. Allah is witness of the things they do.Quran 46:10. Say: 'Consider, if this (Quran) is from Allah and you disbelieve in it, and a witness from the Children of Israel testifies to its like and believes, while you are proud! Indeed, Allah does not guide the harmdoers. ' Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.(Allah Knows Bests)
This brings another thought to me. I thought the voice in my dream, if it was really anything, is that of The Holy Spirit. Now I see that it could very well be that of Allah's. I don't think it is fair for me to make assumptions until I know more, but now I am even more confused.
 

zadzial

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Mar 23, 2008
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When God sends a message through dreams, wherever it is located in the Bible or Koran, it is never so vague. A ''voice" saying a couple of numbers is very much not what God tells people. if he had spoken to you, you would not be in any doubt as to either who sent the message or what it was- not necesarily what it means, but what the message was. To simply give two numbers wihout any form of reference is pointless. I could give you quotes from any book in the Bible or Koran with those numbers involved- try it yourself! They may or may not be poigniant. As for the rememberance issue, I'm sure someone does! I pray for you and for all those on this board. I hope others do too. But this could mean absolutely anything. it's reminiscent of the "ïf your left ear starts to ring, your future love is thinking of you" superstition. The numbers issue is more akin to cold reading than a genuine God given message. when a medium or other such performer gives a general message "Does the number 46 or 10 mean anything to anyone?" I'm sure they will mean something to someone who hears them. Every number or word means soemthing to someone, even if it is nothing. A genuine message from God would have given you the idea of what the numbers referred to. Every instance in the Bible has this important qualification. Even the dreams of pharoah interpreted by Joseph were a part of this effort- the meaning was there if he chose to interpret. And that dream was very specific in nature, with repeating images. I do think you've had a spiritual experience, that you may have now encountered something of a higher level than the everyday humdrum experience. I don't however, necessarily think it came from anywhere but your own subconscious. It conforms to what many agnostic thinkers beleive about messages from God: cryptic and powerful. God only works in mysterious ways to those who do not take the time to understand it, and when he speaks to you you won't mistake it for anything else.
 

RobinD69

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Oct 7, 2007
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This brings another thought to me. I thought the voice in my dream, if it was really anything, is that of The Holy Spirit. Now I see that it could very well be that of Allah's. I don't think it is fair for me to make assumptions until I know more, but now I am even more confused.
You should pray that it is the Holy Spirit because if it is Allah then you have a demon problem because the Allah of the Quran is not the same God of the Bible.Dont mean to scare you but there is a differance and you must be careful. Alos if it is a representative of the Quran it would most likely claim to be the angel Gabriel since that is who supposedly gave the Quran to Muhammad.
 

BondiHarry

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Apr 2, 2008
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I would like very much to believe that God exists, but I cannot seem to prove it to myself. Is there any proof for his existence, besides the Bible or "just faith"? I was brought up to be a Christian, but now that I am older I am more convinced by science than a preacher's words. Can anyone help me?
Cybella, there are many ways to come to the realization that there is a creator. Once you come to that realization, there are ways to learn who that creator is.For the first, one is to use science as man understands it. The theory of evolution, being used to explain the origins of species, has some glaring scientific deficiencies. Micro-evolution is fairly well established (changes within an already existing species) but macro-evolution (one species changing into another) has never been observed despite a great deal of study into it. The lack of transitional forms of life between types of creatures is another. The theory of evolution says changes happen slowly over time but studying the 'evolution' of man shows very little indication of gradual intermediaries but latches onto some rather impressive, multiple changes occurring over a short period time. In addition, there is the Cambrian age where life forms became very complex over a relatively short period of time. And then there is the problem with how life started 'spontaneously'. What we know of cellular structure, the conditions that likely existed long ago (all this assuming we actually understand how to properly date things which is another can of worms in its own right) and the means that life forms copy themselves (dna/genetics) make the idea of life starting spontaneously ridiculous. And when every single experiment conducted to test the possibility that life could start spontaneously has failed to ever produce life, one has to at least begin to question its validity. So if the life forms we know could not start spontaneously and do not change from one species into another, what does that say?Another proof is the varied life forms we do have. Could evolution have led to the caterpillar which then transforms into a butterfly? What plausible series of events would gradually lead a life form to make a cocoon and emerge from it an entirely different creature? For that matter, what plausible series of events would lead to such magnificent structures as the human eye or brain?Another proof if you will is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Some may dismiss the miracles he performed as old wives tales but they were none-the-less witnessed by many. That Christ lived and the Biblical account of his life is further substantiated by references as far flung as even Roman historians.Another proof is the Bible itself. There are those of course who dismiss the Bible as being written by men but anyone who truly studies the Bible has to note the prophecies, the moral lessons, how accurately it pegs the passions of mankind and come away, if they are being honest, realizing that the Bible cannot be the product of the human mind. Man in his natural, carnal state does not think as Christ taught. Of course there are numerous 'contradictions' that are touted as being in the Bible which 'proves' it is indeed the product of fallible man (or so it is claimed by those who cannot stand the idea of a creator). However, are such claims accurate or are they the result of a lack of knowledge/understanding of what the Bible says? I have studied some of the reputed contradictions (ex. God is evil/God is not evil OR the supposed two different accounts of the creation of man in genesis) and find the problem is more with those who see the contradiction than with the Bible itself.There are many Biblical stories that have been dismissed but as we learn more from the archeological and historical record we find evidence that stories previously dismissed as impluasible become very plausible. There are records outside of the Bible that document the ten plagues of Egypt, the exodus of the Jewish people and so many names recorded in the Bible.Of course, establishing that there is a creator doesn't automatically tell us the nature of that creator but I hope what I've posted at least leads you to consider, based on impirical evidence, that there must be a creator.
 

Cybella

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Mar 25, 2008
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Thank you for sharing your experience with us. As to the interpretation, I have no idea. But I do know that on the night in question I did pray for you to come to know Christ. God has many ways of talking to us and getting our attention. I will continue to pray for you and other non-christians I have encountered on this forum.
You did not seem to be skeptical of my dream before I brought in Allah - Why?
 

zadzial

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Mar 23, 2008
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You did not seem to be skeptical of my dream before I brought in Allah - Why?
I am always nervous of people reading too much into dreams and other similar experiences. It could have been God, and it could have been something else. It could be that God has just planted a seed in your mind, showing you that there is indeed a spiritual side to life, which maybe you need to investigate. If you think it could have been allah then you should also investigate that. I certainly did not mean to give you the impression from my initial post that I was confident it was a message. I really do not know what it was.