Protestant Leaders and the pope

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Rollo Tamasi

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Mission is a prerequisite to unity, Pope says in Geneva

Vatican City, Jun 21, 2018 / 08:29 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Speaking to ecumenical leaders Thursday, Pope Francis said Christian unity in many ways depends on a willingness to go out of oneself to meet the needs of others, and called for a “new evangelical outreach” among Christian communities. READ MORE HERE

Pope in Geneva: Real ecumenism puts Christ over division
Vatican City, Jun 21, 2018 / 03:28 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis landed in Geneva Thursday for a day-trip aimed at bolstering ecumenical relations, saying that division among Christians comes from worldliness, and Christ must be prioritized over any differences that might get in the way of unity. READ MORE HERE




Begging for that spanking, I see. I didn't say YOU were an anti-Catholic, you admit that yourself. Catholics stand alone on forums, it's silly for 1.2 billion to stand alone. I can't explain the myth of Vatican wealth to fit on a T shirt so you will probably ignore the rest of my post.

THE MYTH OF VATICAN WEALTH
“Challenges to vision of a ‘Poor Church for the Poor,’” available here, http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/challenges-vision-poor-church-poor, that “the legendary wealth of the Vatican is to some extent more myth than reality.” He then points out the often ignored fact that the yearly budget for operating the Vatican is less than $300 million. He contrasts this with Harvard University (which he labels as “the Vatican of elite secular opinion”) whose annual budget is $3.7 billion. Allen points out further that the patrimony (or endowment) of the Vatican is about $1 billion. Harvard, on the other hand, as a whopping $30.7 billion endowment. Allen concedes that the Vatican bank is in charge of the equivalent of over $6 billion, but then points out how the majority of that money is not actually the Vatican’s, and thus the Vatican would not be at liberty to use most of that amount for any purpose whatsoever.

Some confusion exists about the Vatican property, relics, artwork, etc., itself. Shouldn’t the Vatican just sell St. Peter’s Basilica, Vatican City, all of its religious patrimony? First of all, I don’t think it should, but even if it should, it can’t. What critics fail to realize, probably due to their ignorance of European history, Church history, etc., is that the Vatican has the independent autonomous sovereignty of a modern nation state, but with caveats. Unlike many modern nation states who created their own autonomy through revolutionary and civil wars, the Vatican achieved its sovereignty purely by negotiations without an army.
READ MORE HERE

This is a report from the U.S. government. Specifically, the CIA fact book, which can be found at https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vt.html proves, from non-sectarian, public sources (the CIA) that Vatican wealth is a myth.

Question: Mainly the question is, the Vatican has so many treasures it has collected throughout the years. With all these treasures it has, why not sell them and help the poor ten times over, instead of hording them?

Answer: The Holy See annually runs a deficit in its operations (including its charitable works), for which it must depend on contributions (most of which now come from American bishops and their people). "Vatican riches" are a myth.

I presume the treasures your friend wants the Vatican to sell are the widely acclaimed art treasures. Now suppose we sell them. Could they bring in 30 billion dollars? Well, suppose they did bring in so much.

There are now close to 5 billion people in the world, and I guess 3 billion of these are rated really poor. So the Vatican is able to give each of these ten dollars apiece. Now you can bet that all this money will find its way from the hands of the poor to the pockets of the rich in less than a year. So how are we ahead?

Every church has administration costs, and these treasures bring in much need tourist dollars, much of which also goes to the poor. This past year the Vatican has run a 3 million dollar deficit, and has been publicly documented.

Now back to the art treasures. They have been sold--to whom? To private collectors and to museums. The world will never see nor derive any benefit from the treasures in private hands. And the public who might visit the rest of the treasures in museums can visit them now in the Vatican museums. They are not being hoarded. They are being preserved and displayed and widely enjoyed. I'd say, leave them there.

If your friend is yearning to enjoy even greater treasures in the keeping of the Catholic Church, he might start with the Bible. He would not have Scripture if the Church had not first written it, validated it, and handed it down to him through the centuries.

Anyone who seeks to can enjoy the treasure of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Anyone can enjoy membership and fellowship in the Church which Christ founded and the Holy Spirit has kept going for 20 centuries (in part) by Fr. Mike Mateo.

The Vatican went through 23 money-losing years until 1993. The situation turned around after bishops from around the world agreed to provide direct assistance.

Anyone can search the web and find over 10,000 webs reporting this. Vatican wealth is a myth.
+...
I believe that those who decry the "wealth" of the Vatican do so not out of altruistic reasons but due to a hope that the Church have no clout or influence in the world's affairs. This has nothing to do with "riches" but more to do with "power". Most people do not wish that the Church have a voice in matters political, humanitarian, ethical, etc., they would like to see her shut-up and ineffectual. God wishes otherwise and so do the true aspirations of the inner workings of humanity. "the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee." The ignorance of these simplistic self-righteous statements need not bother us - God is in control here - no worry. Fools be gone! If the Church had all the riches of the world (and she does on a much deeper level) no one should worry - we all should be happy if such a miraculous thing happened - for we'd be assured that all those riches would be distributed rightfully and justly, unlike the world. We'd be assured that the great works of art would be open for all and available to all.
+...
Would they feel "better" if Egypt would sell the pyramids, France the Eiffel Tower, China the Wall, etc., etc., to feed their hungry? These people are real jokers, and they really do not know what the "treasures" of the Vatican are ... Maybe if they sell the Sistine Chapel, piece by piece of stone and mortar to another country, they will have more cash to increase their catholic contributions around the world ... Have you ever seen or heard of all the money that goes out of the Vatican to dozens of countries around the world each year to help???? The help goes not only to Catholics, but to all ... "The Vatican Treasures" issue is a really old one ... always used by those that want to put down Catholicism at its roots ... The folks that criticize Catholics and the Vatican would feel much better if the Pope would live in a shack, in rags, and extreme poverty. (observers say he actually lives an austere life of much penance, prayer, and fasting.)Well I have news for them ... The president of Argentina lives in the Pink House, the president of the USA lives in the White House, the Queen of England lives in Buckingham Palace (?), and the Pope lives in the Vatican.



Hey Rollo, people who need these services aren't charged any money. But you were probably told about all the real estate that is owned.
Lol, oh yes throw in a sad picture of your mother Teresa.
Very effective.
I read a book back from the 1960's from a priest in charge of an audit of the Vatican books and found them to be the richest country in the world.
They had their fingers in so many enterprises that they could quit being a church and not miss a beat.
Not at all like your propaganda.
 
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Nancy

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Mission is a prerequisite to unity, Pope says in Geneva

Vatican City, Jun 21, 2018 / 08:29 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Speaking to ecumenical leaders Thursday, Pope Francis said Christian unity in many ways depends on a willingness to go out of oneself to meet the needs of others, and called for a “new evangelical outreach” among Christian communities. READ MORE HERE

Pope in Geneva: Real ecumenism puts Christ over division
Vatican City, Jun 21, 2018 / 03:28 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis landed in Geneva Thursday for a day-trip aimed at bolstering ecumenical relations, saying that division among Christians comes from worldliness, and Christ must be prioritized over any differences that might get in the way of unity. READ MORE HERE




Begging for that spanking, I see. I didn't say YOU were an anti-Catholic, you admit that yourself. Catholics stand alone on forums, it's silly for 1.2 billion to stand alone. I can't explain the myth of Vatican wealth to fit on a T shirt so you will probably ignore the rest of my post.

THE MYTH OF VATICAN WEALTH
“Challenges to vision of a ‘Poor Church for the Poor,’” available here, http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/challenges-vision-poor-church-poor, that “the legendary wealth of the Vatican is to some extent more myth than reality.” He then points out the often ignored fact that the yearly budget for operating the Vatican is less than $300 million. He contrasts this with Harvard University (which he labels as “the Vatican of elite secular opinion”) whose annual budget is $3.7 billion. Allen points out further that the patrimony (or endowment) of the Vatican is about $1 billion. Harvard, on the other hand, as a whopping $30.7 billion endowment. Allen concedes that the Vatican bank is in charge of the equivalent of over $6 billion, but then points out how the majority of that money is not actually the Vatican’s, and thus the Vatican would not be at liberty to use most of that amount for any purpose whatsoever.

Some confusion exists about the Vatican property, relics, artwork, etc., itself. Shouldn’t the Vatican just sell St. Peter’s Basilica, Vatican City, all of its religious patrimony? First of all, I don’t think it should, but even if it should, it can’t. What critics fail to realize, probably due to their ignorance of European history, Church history, etc., is that the Vatican has the independent autonomous sovereignty of a modern nation state, but with caveats. Unlike many modern nation states who created their own autonomy through revolutionary and civil wars, the Vatican achieved its sovereignty purely by negotiations without an army.
READ MORE HERE

This is a report from the U.S. government. Specifically, the CIA fact book, which can be found at https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vt.html proves, from non-sectarian, public sources (the CIA) that Vatican wealth is a myth.

Question: Mainly the question is, the Vatican has so many treasures it has collected throughout the years. With all these treasures it has, why not sell them and help the poor ten times over, instead of hording them?

Answer: The Holy See annually runs a deficit in its operations (including its charitable works), for which it must depend on contributions (most of which now come from American bishops and their people). "Vatican riches" are a myth.

I presume the treasures your friend wants the Vatican to sell are the widely acclaimed art treasures. Now suppose we sell them. Could they bring in 30 billion dollars? Well, suppose they did bring in so much.

There are now close to 5 billion people in the world, and I guess 3 billion of these are rated really poor. So the Vatican is able to give each of these ten dollars apiece. Now you can bet that all this money will find its way from the hands of the poor to the pockets of the rich in less than a year. So how are we ahead?

Every church has administration costs, and these treasures bring in much need tourist dollars, much of which also goes to the poor. This past year the Vatican has run a 3 million dollar deficit, and has been publicly documented.

Now back to the art treasures. They have been sold--to whom? To private collectors and to museums. The world will never see nor derive any benefit from the treasures in private hands. And the public who might visit the rest of the treasures in museums can visit them now in the Vatican museums. They are not being hoarded. They are being preserved and displayed and widely enjoyed. I'd say, leave them there.

If your friend is yearning to enjoy even greater treasures in the keeping of the Catholic Church, he might start with the Bible. He would not have Scripture if the Church had not first written it, validated it, and handed it down to him through the centuries.

Anyone who seeks to can enjoy the treasure of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Anyone can enjoy membership and fellowship in the Church which Christ founded and the Holy Spirit has kept going for 20 centuries (in part) by Fr. Mike Mateo.

The Vatican went through 23 money-losing years until 1993. The situation turned around after bishops from around the world agreed to provide direct assistance.

Anyone can search the web and find over 10,000 webs reporting this. Vatican wealth is a myth.
+...
I believe that those who decry the "wealth" of the Vatican do so not out of altruistic reasons but due to a hope that the Church have no clout or influence in the world's affairs. This has nothing to do with "riches" but more to do with "power". Most people do not wish that the Church have a voice in matters political, humanitarian, ethical, etc., they would like to see her shut-up and ineffectual. God wishes otherwise and so do the true aspirations of the inner workings of humanity. "the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee." The ignorance of these simplistic self-righteous statements need not bother us - God is in control here - no worry. Fools be gone! If the Church had all the riches of the world (and she does on a much deeper level) no one should worry - we all should be happy if such a miraculous thing happened - for we'd be assured that all those riches would be distributed rightfully and justly, unlike the world. We'd be assured that the great works of art would be open for all and available to all.
+...
Would they feel "better" if Egypt would sell the pyramids, France the Eiffel Tower, China the Wall, etc., etc., to feed their hungry? These people are real jokers, and they really do not know what the "treasures" of the Vatican are ... Maybe if they sell the Sistine Chapel, piece by piece of stone and mortar to another country, they will have more cash to increase their catholic contributions around the world ... Have you ever seen or heard of all the money that goes out of the Vatican to dozens of countries around the world each year to help???? The help goes not only to Catholics, but to all ... "The Vatican Treasures" issue is a really old one ... always used by those that want to put down Catholicism at its roots ... The folks that criticize Catholics and the Vatican would feel much better if the Pope would live in a shack, in rags, and extreme poverty. (observers say he actually lives an austere life of much penance, prayer, and fasting.)Well I have news for them ... The president of Argentina lives in the Pink House, the president of the USA lives in the White House, the Queen of England lives in Buckingham Palace (?), and the Pope lives in the Vatican.



Hey Rollo, people who need these services aren't charged any money. But you were probably told about all the real estate that is owned.

I will take issue with at least this one thing. Why does the world have to know all the wonderful things that a person or an institution does? Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing..." There are several others but, you know where I am going with this...I think ♥
 
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GodsGrace

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The Vatican is a rich country because of its assets.
But if those assets can't be sold, it's like having a house worth 10 Million dollars, but no one will buy it.

Money could corrupt. A cardinal in Rome has been found stealing money from the Vatican. I'm sure this could be found on google, I heard it on the news last night.
Human nature is so fragile...and some leaders are saved persons, and some are not.

Lastly, I know that the Vatican is wealthy, but my local churches here are not. People here are not very generous and I often wonder how the churches even get along. Priests get a set monthly salary and out of it comes their food and a housekeeper, if one is necessary. They also pay for their own auto expenses, which, in some cases is not even right since some have 6 parishes and even up to 8, so there's a lot of travel on mountain roads which require slowing down and going and wastes gas.
 

epostle1

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Lol, oh yes throw in a sad picture of your mother Teresa.
Very effective.
I read a book back from the 1960's from a priest in charge of an audit of the Vatican books and found them to be the richest country in the world.
They had their fingers in so many enterprises that they could quit being a church and not miss a beat.
Not at all like your propaganda.
I don't have time to refute your childish lies. Your book was probably written by somebody with an axe to grind. If you are going to slander the Church with some book, have the decency to name the book and the author. Otherwise, you are the one with the propaganda. You can't read or you ignored my post debunking the myth of Vatican wealth, so you come up with this nonsense? You are flailing your fists against an unreal authority figure, symbolized by the Church. Get some post-abuse counselling. Grow up. Stop lying because you are angry at something that has nothing to do with the Church.
 
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epostle1

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I will take issue with at least this one thing. Why does the world have to know all the wonderful things that a person or an institution does? Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing..." There are several others but, you know where I am going with this...I think ♥
Who announces what with trumpets? Is it a sin for me to be proud of the fact that the Catholic Church is the largest charity in the world? Do you think the Pope orders memes to be made? Are Catholics supposed to keep their works a secret to appease the Christian Taliban? What is your deep down beef against the Church, anyway? That's 3 anti-Catholic posts you have made and it's really disappointing.
Ex-Catholics become anti-Catholics because they get indoctrinated by people who have had a lifetime of anti-Catholic lies, falsehoods and bigotry. It's
painfully obvious, Nancy. Please stop.

Matthew 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city built on a hill cannot be hid. 15 No one after lighting a lamp puts it under the bushel basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.
Look at Rollo, he's so far gone he can't see charitable works if it hit him over the head. Blindness can't see the good of third world orphanages and hospitals. Why? Because he has Jesus???

16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven. (but don't tell the ex-Catholics, they will get offended)
 
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epostle1

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Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

Catholic_Church_Africa_001.jpg
All this...to be honored by others???
seriously???
 

aspen

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Well, honestly I would not be upset if the Vatican lost its wealth.....it would be good for them - it is a thown in the flesh they have been cultivating for centuries.

I’ve lost everything and I am better for it
 
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epostle1

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Well, honestly I would not be upset if the Vatican lost its wealth.....it would be good for them - it is a thown in the flesh they have been cultivating for centuries.

I’ve lost everything and I am better for it
Scroll back to post #178, one page back. Vatican wealth is a myth.
 
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quietthinker

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Scroll back to post #178, one page back. Vatican wealth is a myth.
Epostle, your denial on this matter leaves me gob smacked and only underpins a previous reply of mine stating your zero credibility.
For those of us who try to get a handle on spiritual matters as best we can and are willing to give the benefit of the doubt in case there is some misunderstanding, your blatant unashamed inaccuracies/lies are as bold and deliberate as Tetzel's Vatican fundraising spiels and a plain embarrassment to the Christian Community.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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If a person simply disagrees with the Catholic Church - that is not hate.
When people make up lies and fairy tales like so many of you here - that is absolutely hate.

The only other option is that e person making up these falsehoods is a compulsive liar.
Can you think of another option?
Who are you talking about?
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Mission is a prerequisite to unity, Pope says in Geneva

Vatican City, Jun 21, 2018 / 08:29 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Speaking to ecumenical leaders Thursday, Pope Francis said Christian unity in many ways depends on a willingness to go out of oneself to meet the needs of others, and called for a “new evangelical outreach” among Christian communities. READ MORE HERE

Pope in Geneva: Real ecumenism puts Christ over division
Vatican City, Jun 21, 2018 / 03:28 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis landed in Geneva Thursday for a day-trip aimed at bolstering ecumenical relations, saying that division among Christians comes from worldliness, and Christ must be prioritized over any differences that might get in the way of unity. READ MORE HERE




Begging for that spanking, I see. I didn't say YOU were an anti-Catholic, you admit that yourself. Catholics stand alone on forums, it's silly for 1.2 billion to stand alone. I can't explain the myth of Vatican wealth to fit on a T shirt so you will probably ignore the rest of my post.

THE MYTH OF VATICAN WEALTH
“Challenges to vision of a ‘Poor Church for the Poor,’” available here, Challenges to vision of a 'Poor Church for the Poor', that “the legendary wealth of the Vatican is to some extent more myth than reality.” He then points out the often ignored fact that the yearly budget for operating the Vatican is less than $300 million. He contrasts this with Harvard University (which he labels as “the Vatican of elite secular opinion”) whose annual budget is $3.7 billion. Allen points out further that the patrimony (or endowment) of the Vatican is about $1 billion. Harvard, on the other hand, as a whopping $30.7 billion endowment. Allen concedes that the Vatican bank is in charge of the equivalent of over $6 billion, but then points out how the majority of that money is not actually the Vatican’s, and thus the Vatican would not be at liberty to use most of that amount for any purpose whatsoever.

Some confusion exists about the Vatican property, relics, artwork, etc., itself. Shouldn’t the Vatican just sell St. Peter’s Basilica, Vatican City, all of its religious patrimony? First of all, I don’t think it should, but even if it should, it can’t. What critics fail to realize, probably due to their ignorance of European history, Church history, etc., is that the Vatican has the independent autonomous sovereignty of a modern nation state, but with caveats. Unlike many modern nation states who created their own autonomy through revolutionary and civil wars, the Vatican achieved its sovereignty purely by negotiations without an army.
READ MORE HERE

This is a report from the U.S. government. Specifically, the CIA fact book, which can be found at Europe :: Holy See (Vatican City) — The World Factbook - Central Intelligence Agency proves, from non-sectarian, public sources (the CIA) that Vatican wealth is a myth.

Question: Mainly the question is, the Vatican has so many treasures it has collected throughout the years. With all these treasures it has, why not sell them and help the poor ten times over, instead of hording them?

Answer: The Holy See annually runs a deficit in its operations (including its charitable works), for which it must depend on contributions (most of which now come from American bishops and their people). "Vatican riches" are a myth.

I presume the treasures your friend wants the Vatican to sell are the widely acclaimed art treasures. Now suppose we sell them. Could they bring in 30 billion dollars? Well, suppose they did bring in so much.

There are now close to 5 billion people in the world, and I guess 3 billion of these are rated really poor. So the Vatican is able to give each of these ten dollars apiece. Now you can bet that all this money will find its way from the hands of the poor to the pockets of the rich in less than a year. So how are we ahead?

Every church has administration costs, and these treasures bring in much need tourist dollars, much of which also goes to the poor. This past year the Vatican has run a 3 million dollar deficit, and has been publicly documented.

Now back to the art treasures. They have been sold--to whom? To private collectors and to museums. The world will never see nor derive any benefit from the treasures in private hands. And the public who might visit the rest of the treasures in museums can visit them now in the Vatican museums. They are not being hoarded. They are being preserved and displayed and widely enjoyed. I'd say, leave them there.

If your friend is yearning to enjoy even greater treasures in the keeping of the Catholic Church, he might start with the Bible. He would not have Scripture if the Church had not first written it, validated it, and handed it down to him through the centuries.

Anyone who seeks to can enjoy the treasure of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Anyone can enjoy membership and fellowship in the Church which Christ founded and the Holy Spirit has kept going for 20 centuries (in part) by Fr. Mike Mateo.

The Vatican went through 23 money-losing years until 1993. The situation turned around after bishops from around the world agreed to provide direct assistance.

Anyone can search the web and find over 10,000 webs reporting this. Vatican wealth is a myth.
+...
I believe that those who decry the "wealth" of the Vatican do so not out of altruistic reasons but due to a hope that the Church have no clout or influence in the world's affairs. This has nothing to do with "riches" but more to do with "power". Most people do not wish that the Church have a voice in matters political, humanitarian, ethical, etc., they would like to see her shut-up and ineffectual. God wishes otherwise and so do the true aspirations of the inner workings of humanity. "the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee." The ignorance of these simplistic self-righteous statements need not bother us - God is in control here - no worry. Fools be gone! If the Church had all the riches of the world (and she does on a much deeper level) no one should worry - we all should be happy if such a miraculous thing happened - for we'd be assured that all those riches would be distributed rightfully and justly, unlike the world. We'd be assured that the great works of art would be open for all and available to all.
+...
Would they feel "better" if Egypt would sell the pyramids, France the Eiffel Tower, China the Wall, etc., etc., to feed their hungry? These people are real jokers, and they really do not know what the "treasures" of the Vatican are ... Maybe if they sell the Sistine Chapel, piece by piece of stone and mortar to another country, they will have more cash to increase their catholic contributions around the world ... Have you ever seen or heard of all the money that goes out of the Vatican to dozens of countries around the world each year to help???? The help goes not only to Catholics, but to all ... "The Vatican Treasures" issue is a really old one ... always used by those that want to put down Catholicism at its roots ... The folks that criticize Catholics and the Vatican would feel much better if the Pope would live in a shack, in rags, and extreme poverty. (observers say he actually lives an austere life of much penance, prayer, and fasting.)Well I have news for them ... The president of Argentina lives in the Pink House, the president of the USA lives in the White House, the Queen of England lives in Buckingham Palace (?), and the Pope lives in the Vatican.



Hey Rollo, people who need these services aren't charged any money. But you were probably told about all the real estate that is owned.
the problem with this statement is that they also don't preach the Gospel
the two should go hand in hand
 
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bbyrd009

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Epostle, your denial on this matter leaves me gob smacked and only underpins a previous reply of mine stating your zero credibility.
For those of us who try to get a handle on spiritual matters as best we can and are willing to give the benefit of the doubt in case there is some misunderstanding, your blatant unashamed inaccuracies/lies are as bold and deliberate as Tetzel's Vatican fundraising spiels and a plain embarrassment to the Christian Community.
and "Mother T" is a hypocritical old witch too, imo